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philosophical question on stem length for SB-66

4K views 29 replies 18 participants last post by  Dogboy 
#1 ·
Yeti puts a 75mm stem on their SB-66 kits. They must think that's a good compromise between climbing and downhill handling.

In most trail reviews I've read, the reviewer immediately replaces this with a 50mm stem (and wider bars). That includes reviews of the SB-66 and most other trail/all-mtn bikes. Obviously stem length is a personal preference, but this short-stem-love thing seems like a trend to me.

So either manufacturers like Yeti are off base with their stock stem length, or reviewers as a group are more gravity oriented than the target consumer for these bikes. Anyone have thoughts on this? Thanks for sharing.
 
#3 ·
I have been on a SB66 for a year and a few months and I'm sold on the long TT/short stem/wide bars philosophy. I have been a fan of wider bars for a while and prior to the SB, it was tough to achieve a good all-around position with a stem shorter than 75-90mm. So I would compromise on the fit to gain the control benefit of the wider bars with a short stem. I'm firmly in the medium size range and went from a 70mm stem on my previous bike to a 50mm on the SB with the result being a better all-around fit. With regards to what Yeti specs in their build kit, 75mm is probably the longest stem you would want to run on a SB66 whereas another bike company would likely spec a 90mm stem. The fact that a lot of people (myself included) opt for a shorter stem than standard doesn't mean that no one will run the 75mm, but I can tell you that no one will be running a 90+mm stem on a SB unless they bought a size too small.
 
#5 ·
With regards to what Yeti specs in their build kit, 75mm is probably the longest stem you would want to run on a SB66
Thanks Dogboy, I don't doubt that 50mm is better for you. But why would Yeti spec the longest stem anyone would want? Why not spec something in the middle?

I'm having a hard time with the idea that the Yeti folks are good enough engineers to produce a great AM frame, but don't realize 75mm is at the extreme end of what works.
 
#8 ·
I think some people choose stem length to optimize bike fit. And others choose a particular length to improve certain handling characteristics at the expense of other handing characteristics. I was thinking about the second category when I started this thread.

The world would seem more in balance if, occasionally, a reviewer claimed the stock stem on some AM bike was too *short*.
 
#9 ·
I agree with this 100%. Most bikes out there are not optimized for fit with a short stem, so the result is usually a compromise. One thing I always remind myself of with regards to mountain bikes is that almost everything is a compromise - tire choice, wheel size, suspension design, bike setup. There is no such thing as best/optimal/perfect, you just have to figure out what your strengths are and what works for you and go with the bike that best suits that criteria.
 
#10 ·
So either manufacturers like Yeti are off base with their stock stem length, or reviewers as a group are more gravity oriented than the target consumer for these bikes. Anyone have thoughts on this? Thanks for sharing.
I'm having a hard time with the idea that the Yeti folks are good enough engineers to produce a great AM frame, but don't realize 75mm is at the extreme end of what works.
Guys-

I *wish* we could just engineer the best setup possible and then take it straight to market, but you have to remember that there is always an element of marketing at play with any consumer good.

Most of us at Yeti ride with 50-60mm stems on our 66's, because we feel it handles better that way. But consider this: how many other trail/AM bikes use that short of a stem? Super short stems are usually reserved for DH and FR bikes, and we were afraid that the 66 would immediately be pigeon-holed into those category by shops and customers who didn't take the time to educate themselves on the versatility of the bike.

If you've ever ridden the 66, you'll probably agree that the suspension and geometry make it one of the best do-it-all bikes on the market. People like yourselves who take the opportunity to participate on message boards and do research on their bikes understand that sometimes you have to think outside the box to make a revolutionary product, and the 66 is a perfect example of that. Unfortunately, educated consumers like yourselves make up a very small percentage of the cycling market, and we need to cater to our entire customer base - both the super knowledgeable enthusiasts and the less savvy masses.

At the end of the day, a shop should be able to swap out a short stem for +/- $20, so we felt like speccing a 70mm stem on the 66 was a good tradeoff - while not ideal in terms of handling, it was easy to change and helped open up this model to a much wider consumer base.

Once you step back and take a look at the big picture, I hope this all makes sense.

JP
 
#12 ·
Guys-

At the end of the day, a shop should be able to swap out a short stem for +/- $20,

JP
Understand the importance of marketing influences, however after you've ridden the bike for a season to really know what you want you can't really expect LBS to swap out a stem for $20. A new Thompson like the stock is more like $90 mail order and then you have the cost of a torque wrench if you don't already have one and want to install just exactly perfect. Just sayin...
 
#13 ·
I run a 50 on mine (M) and it's great.

I'm surprised that Yeti would think the "masses" are going to buy a Yeti without studying first. Lots of dough for a premium machine should make them think a lot before buying.
The real masses would drool for a while and then move on to Walmart etc...
 
#19 ·
I built my SB-66 (custom build) back in August 2011 with a Fox 32 FIT 150RLC, Thomson 70mm stem and Easton Haven carbon bars (711mm).

That build was a ripper for forcing you into a very aggressive position speed-wise.

I've since spent a lot of time on it with a Bos Deville 160mm fork (65.9deg HA) and shortening the stem to a 55mm Haven. I then went wider on the bar to a 750mm Easton Havoc.

The last change was to go to a Havoc 35mm stem and the first time out on that setup I giggled. Seriously.

Up until now I don't think I got the short stem wide bar thing.

I'm 6'2" on a Large. My next change is to head back in the other direction, with the fox fork back on (or possibly a Deville 140 that I currently have on another bike) 55mm stem and the 711mm bar. Looking to get back around a 67 degree head angle but mostly just in the interests of validating the 35mm stem setup by reversing it out.

The other area I get the most scope for tweaking the bike is tyre choice. I'm liking a aggressive tyre up front matched to something big volume but fast at the back.

I love that these bikes are so versatile.
 
#20 ·
I've got the "international" kit with some upgrades. Biggest bonus (in my opinion) is the 36 float. It came with lots of RaceFace bits, one of which was a beautiful Turbine stem (60mm), but it's too long for me. I"m a shade under 5-9 on a medium, and would like to get a shorter stem. Unfortunately, RF doesn't make a shorter Turbine, so I'm investigating my options stem-wise.

I'm also a little surprised that they don't offer at least one kit with a dropper. I suppose they are a very "personal preference" type of component... Would be hard to put on something that a large proportion of the market would say "WTF???" to... Unless it were a KS LEV (if it were for me...) Still shopping for a dropper... not sure which direction to go.

Anyhoo, I'm coming off an '06 Iron Horse MKIII with an absurdly tight cockpit (or so it seems now that I've ridden the 66). I feel like I would benefit from a slightly tighter cockpit on the 66. I've got a lot of room for adjustment, but debating between a 50mm and a whole-hog move to a 35mm.
 
#21 ·
I took the big ring off the triple before mine left the shop and replaced it with a bash guard. I can't imagine that large ring lasting more than 3 rides in rocky terrain (my favourite and local conditions) and of course short stem 50 mm haven, with wide chromag osx bar fits me better than any other mountain bike ive ever had
 
#22 ·
This is a great thread.
I'm one of those who believe -- mainly by experience -- that stem length is absolutely crucial.
There's a movement that argues stem length is so crucial that you pick your stem first and size your top tube around that, rather than the other way around.
I think Yeti is a real leader in the short stem department, with their longer than average top tubes. Mondraker, with their zero stem, is another, but that's really radical.
I started mountain biking with a 90mm stem and honestly felt that in sketchy areas I was always on the verge of going OTB. I moved to 70mm and the improvement was HUGE. That feeling (with just 20mm) completely went away.
Now I'm on a 55mm and I absouletly swear by it. I'd never go longer. Not only is it way, way more confidence inspiring but you can manual with total ease. And climbing has not been the least bit hindered.
BTW, I'm 5' 8" on medium ASR 5C, which has a top tube of 23.7" Most other brands' mediums would be a good 1/2 inch shorter.
 
#26 ·
John p, great to hear the inside line on this, i see Yeti's reasoning here.

Most people should expect to change a least a couple basic things on a stock build. Or, you should build your own bikes. If the stock stem is too long, swap it out with your current bike before you sell it. Or if you're the type of person that keeps multiple bikes, you probably have several stems in your parts bin, i definitely do.

Blueallah, what kind of man doesn't have a torque wrench? Just sayin... :D
 
#27 ·
Great thread - I recently picked up a 66 and have built it with a 70mm stem. Previously had this on an old Turner, the Yeti has added at least an inch of TT which definitely gives more breathing space for my long-ish torso. I borrowed a 50mm to try out - but I figure that will put me pretty much back at my old cockpit size (albeit with longer wheelbase etc.). Wondering if a wider bar will let me keep the shorter stem AND the slightly better climbing position I have with the 70.

Question - what size bars do you run with a 50mm stem?
FYI I'm about 5'8" on a medium 66
 
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