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  1. #1
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    Idea! The Light Goes On....

    I had really been resisting setting the sag on the rear of my 575 at 25% (.5 inch) because I thought I needed it to be more XCish or because I thought I needed to feel the trail more or something. Take your pick. In any case, having it set at only 20% sag, or less, makes this bike feel more like a shorter travel bike. In fact, you can't tell you have almost 6" of travel when it is too firm.

    Last night I decided to set the sag at 25% and I also messed with the fork which I had a little too firm as well. It was like I was on a completely different bike. Where before I though this bike was soaking up the trail (which it really wasn't) now it really is. It wasn't all that plush with 20% sag and kind of felt like the ML I had demo'd before but I was really enjoying my ride last night.

    So, the light went on with setup. 25% sag is about perfect and it brings back that "floating" feeling you get when the trail just disappears under you.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by iviguy
    I had really been resisting setting the sag on the rear of my 575 at 25% (.5 inch) because I thought I needed it to be more XCish or because I thought I needed to feel the trail more or something. Take your pick. In any case, having it set at only 20% sag, or less, makes this bike feel more like a shorter travel bike. In fact, you can't tell you have almost 6" of travel when it is too firm.

    Last night I decided to set the sag at 25% and I also messed with the fork which I had a little too firm as well. It was like I was on a completely different bike. Where before I though this bike was soaking up the trail (which it really wasn't) now it really is. It wasn't all that plush with 20% sag and kind of felt like the ML I had demo'd before but I was really enjoying my ride last night.

    So, the light went on with setup. 25% sag is about perfect and it brings back that "floating" feeling you get when the trail just disappears under you.
    I'll try that too. I am finding my ride pretty harsh. I'm a week away from having the time to really air this thing out. Tried some jumps last night and it lands them wonderfully. I found a little highway cut with some neat looking stair-step rocks I'm going to have to try. It's going to be fun until they run me off...
    What, me hurry?

  3. #3
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    Setup

    I agree. I found that pumping up the rear shock to my weight was too much. It had very little sag. My weight minus about 10 pounds seemed to give me 1/2" (25%) of sag. Have you found that the sag is different at full propedal verse minimum propedal? I've been using 1/2 inch on minimum, but that gives me 1/4 inch on full propedal. Are you getting the same sag regardless of setting?

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joeboater
    I agree. I found that pumping up the rear shock to my weight was too much. It had very little sag. My weight minus about 10 pounds seemed to give me 1/2" (25%) of sag. Have you found that the sag is different at full propedal verse minimum propedal? I've been using 1/2 inch on minimum, but that gives me 1/4 inch on full propedal. Are you getting the same sag regardless of setting?
    I kind of think that it does make a difference which setting you are on when you set the sag but I haven't tried to prove it. It wouldn't be that difficult to prove out. Set the sag on full propedal and then check the sag on the minimum setting and see if there is a change.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Jim Mac
    I'll try that too. I am finding my ride pretty harsh. I'm a week away from having the time to really air this thing out. Tried some jumps last night and it lands them wonderfully. I found a little highway cut with some neat looking stair-step rocks I'm going to have to try. It's going to be fun until they run me off...
    did you try it?

  6. #6
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    Set up

    Yeah, I did. I'm trying to get my 575 dialed in also, so I was wondering if the difference in sag was normal. I had the pressure at about 145 to get 1/2 inch of sag in MINIMUM propedal....after running into another 575 rider who had his set lower, I've reduced my pressure even more and love the ride. I'm 155 lbs.....5 lbs of gear. To get 1/2 inch of sag on MIDDLE propedal, I put in 130 PSI....seemed awfully low...But, in firm propedal, I'm getting a soft ride with no bob. I'm not bottoming out on the downhills, but rarely get more than 2 to 3 feet of drop, so that may not apply to 200 pounders that like 5 foot drops! I was out on a ride at that pressure the other day (I've kept it there for the last 50 miles or so) that is a tough, long climb (9 miles and about 2600 feet) and I got NO decrease in performance, so I'm convinced that it's not necessary on this bike to have the ride of a 3" XC bike to get the climbing performance....besides, I like the feel of biking in a Barco-lounger as long as the power doesn't get eaten up in the bobbing.

  7. #7
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    Btw

    I have a Fox float 130....I also reduced the pressure on it until brake jack became an issue and then added a couple of pounds......nothing like titrating out pressures on shocks!....and really like the improvement in ride comfort.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joeboater
    I agree. I found that pumping up the rear shock to my weight was too much. It had very little sag. My weight minus about 10 pounds seemed to give me 1/2" (25%) of sag. Have you found that the sag is different at full propedal verse minimum propedal? I've been using 1/2 inch on minimum, but that gives me 1/4 inch on full propedal. Are you getting the same sag regardless of setting?
    I get the same sag on full propedal ONLY if I overpower the propedal valving and reset the O-Ring. Otherwise, if I just sat on the bike on full propedal, I get less sag than in wide open. I typically set my sag with full open compression front and back.
    FWIW, I only run abut 1/4" to 1/3" sag on the RP3 and less than an 1 inch on the Revelation up front. I tend to use about 4 to 4.5" of travel front and about 4.5" to 5" in the back with these settings on a regular XC ride. Throw in some jumps and drops and I get almost 4.75" in the front and 5.5" in the back. Throw in a Holy Sh!t moment and I get the full travel front and back.

  9. #9
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    Hi Ivyguy,

    I hate to say 'I told you so' but......

    Anyway, I am glad you have seen the light.

    Now your 575 will give you all you can askof it - and more!

    Enjoy!

    Chaser.

  10. #10
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    Sag vs. pressure formula?

    So commone knowledge is to set RP3 pressure at total weight -10 lbs ???
    I know I am not optimized yet

  11. #11
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    pressure

    It sorta sounds like there is a fair amount of variation based on riding styles and preferences. I've got 1/2 inch of sag on middle propedal (about body wt minus 20%....or wt-30 lbs for me)...that's probably lower than most on the board would like. I'm light and not much of a downhiller. Others seem to like to set body wt. or Wt-10 lbs...probably a good place to start. My mistake was not trying settings that were way high and way low. When I finally did, I chose way low. Some of the folks on the board are probably too aggressive on the downhills for the way low settings, but don't hesitate to give different settings a try....you may be pleasantly surprised.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenBonty
    So commone knowledge is to set RP3 pressure at total weight -10 lbs ???
    I know I am not optimized yet
    No, you can't set it up like this. The only way I have found that is fool proof is by sag. I even asked this same question in the shocks forum and got the same answer. I have 2 pumps and I am not convinced that each one is accurate with each other. The only sure way is by sag. It's kind of a pain but it is consistant. Also, you have to remove the pump and gently get on the bike then get off gently check the sag and do it again. When you remove the pump and put it back on you have caused a loss of pressure in the shock so you have to remember that and compensate for it.

    I tried to set the sag with the pump attached before and the extra volume of the hose, which I think actually may stretch some, is enough to throw it all off.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaser
    Hi Ivyguy,

    I hate to say 'I told you so' but......

    Anyway, I am glad you have seen the light.

    Now your 575 will give you all you can askof it - and more!

    Enjoy!

    Chaser.
    I never listen.. don't you know that by now??

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by iviguy
    When you remove the pump and put it back on you have caused a loss of pressure in the shock so you have to remember that and compensate for it.

    .
    you don't really lose pressure in the shock when you take the pump off. The hiss you hear as you remove the pump is air escaping from the pump chamber and hose. The shock valve closes before you remove the pump all the way so there should be no leak during pump removal.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by flipnidaho
    you don't really lose pressure in the shock when you take the pump off. The hiss you hear as you remove the pump is air escaping from the pump chamber and hose. The shock valve closes before you remove the pump all the way so there should be no leak during pump removal.
    I knew someone would say that... what I meant was that because you take the pump off that you will have to put it back on and putting it back on reduces the pressure of the shock.

    Come to think of it though, isn't this notion that no air escapes when you remove the pump kind of like does the light go out in the fridge when you close the door? Yeah, we say that the air you hear hissing is only coming from the hose but how do you know that? Especially because you can't reconnect to check the pressure without affecting the pressure so you kind of never really know...

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by flipnidaho
    you don't really lose pressure in the shock when you take the pump off.
    hey flipn, are you sure? I always thought the type of shock pump used is what determined if air-loss occurred when detaching the hose from the shock.

    ivi, glad you found a winning fomula. and sorry for always telling you to set it at your weight. i just realized that i've gained ~8 lbs, so I was unknowingly setting it below my weight, and loving it.

    Ant

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by antonio
    hey flipn, are you sure? I always thought the type of shock pump used is what determined if air-loss occurred when detaching the hose from the shock.

    Ant
    yeah, that is why RS when to schrader screw on instead of the old pin type valve (original SID valves) years ago. As you unscrew the shock pump, the pin that pushes the schrader valve releases and shuts the shock air chamber before you hear the "pssssssst".
    Of course having said that, there are times when I've had to re-screw the pump back on just to make sure that my shock PSI has not been reduced...
    What we really need for forks is a screw on version of this...
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  18. #18
    In my mind, I can do it!
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    Quote Originally Posted by flipnidaho
    yeah, that is why RS when to schrader screw on instead of the old pin type valve (original SID valves) years ago. As you unscrew the shock pump, the pin that pushes the schrader valve releases and shuts the shock air chamber before you hear the "pssssssst".
    Of course having said that, there are times when I've had to re-screw the pump back on just to make sure that my shock PSI has not been reduced...
    What we really need for forks is a screw on version of this...
    What someone needs to do is come up with a neat little attachment for shock pumps that allows you to manually close or open the valve to the shock... I have thought about this but I know I won't be getting any patents anytime soon so someone go for it. If you get rich, it would be nice to be remembered....

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by flipnidaho
    I get the same sag on full propedal ONLY if I overpower the propedal valving and reset the O-Ring. I typically set my sag with full open compression front and back.
    Could you please explain these two statements a bit more? Not trying to insinuate you are incorrect, I am just ignorant. How can you manually "overpower the propedal valving," or "full[y] open compression" on a RP3? The only adjustment to the ProPedal I know if is the little lever and that only has three settings. And isn't compression on the RP3 set by the amount of air in the shock?
    I thought of that while riding my bicycle. ~ Albert Einstein on the theory of relativity

  20. #20
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    Using sag vs pressure

    I agree....sag is the only real way. It just happens that 1/2 inch of sag, for me, is about 130psi on middle propedal. On minimum propedal, it's about 145....my weight minus 10.

  21. #21
    bob
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    I set my sag at 1/2 inch and really like it. I'm suprised at the pressures people are using vs. body weight to get the same sag. I'm 175lbs neked and use 190 psi in my RP3.

  22. #22
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    Running my 575 at 20% sag was pretty XC-ish and not bad at all on smoother trails. On rougher trails though, I started to run 25% sag and that was taking advantage of the travel. After that, I ran 25% with great results on all trails. It all depends on what the bike's geometry is designed around.
    I started to ride my X-5 at 20% and that was way too little since the 2004 Ventana X-5 was designed around 33% or 35% sag. I was starting to go over the bars or come really close. After receiving some useful advice, I now run it at around 33%-35% and it handles far better and uses almost all its travel. It is very compliant and tracks the ground really well. No more endos either

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnfiend
    How can you manually "overpower the propedal valving," or "full[y] open compression" on a RP3? The only adjustment to the ProPedal I know if is the little lever and that only has three settings. And isn't compression on the RP3 set by the amount of air in the shock?
    To manually overpower the propedal valving, i get on the bike, pedal around with propedal fully on then hit a curb while sitting on the saddle (alternatively, you can launch or wheelie drop off of something which should accomplish the same thing). The valve will "open" (or blow-off) and allow travel.
    You are sorta correct, the spring rate on the RP3 is set by the amount of air in the chamber. The amount of air in the chamber also affects the compression but the Propedal lever is a better way to adjust compression. I think of the Propedal lever to be the same as the compression lever on my Revelation or my Talas...

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