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  1. #1
    In my mind, I can do it!
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    Upset Help me... Has anyone else experienced this?


  2. #2
    Nightriding rules SuperModerator
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    I had it a couple of times.. I just upgraded my rear to 180mm.. XT brakes hope rotor... but it doesn't happen all the time

  3. #3
    Was that a Bobcat?
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    I had that on one of my bikes at one time, I changed out the rotors and re-aligned the brakes and it went away.

  4. #4
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    I get that sometimes on my 575, I can almost feel it coming thru the seatstays as well. I haven't really resolved it yet as it only appears on occasion, but my rear caliper is sticking a little so I'm going to try and fix that this winter and hope it resolves the problem.

  5. #5
    Who is John Galt?
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    Yep, mine is doing the same thing (Juicy 7s). It's a lot worse after a creek crossing. I'm going to change pads and see what happens, I think this started after a real dusty ride where I used the brakes a lot. What's worse is I seem to have no brakes in the back and that's a bad feeling. fortunately the front ones are working OK, but they are starting to make a little noise too. Keep us posted on the fix.
    What, me hurry?

  6. #6
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    I put a response into this thread

    Quote Originally Posted by iviguy
    check your original thread.
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  7. #7
    In my mind, I can do it!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Jim Mac
    Yep, mine is doing the same thing (Juicy 7s). It's a lot worse after a creek crossing. I'm going to change pads and see what happens, I think this started after a real dusty ride where I used the brakes a lot. What's worse is I seem to have no brakes in the back and that's a bad feeling. fortunately the front ones are working OK, but they are starting to make a little noise too. Keep us posted on the fix.
    I changed the pads several times over. It comes back. I wonder if I could isolate the vibration between the rotor and the wheel with rubber gromets? If that's what is causing the noise anyway. It seems to be a vibration type of noise.

  8. #8
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    My Juicy 7's do the same thing. I gave up trying to resolve it. I can clean the rotors really good and it will stop for a while. A side benefit to it though is that I found the squeal/howl to be so disconcerting to other riders that when racing, I have no trouble getting anyone one to let me pass. Just get up on their ass and ride my brakes a for a while. After a bit, it gets nerve-wracking and they let me by.

  9. #9
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    hub issue, perhaps

    Quote Originally Posted by iviguy
    I changed the pads several times over. It comes back. I wonder if I could isolate the vibration between the rotor and the wheel with rubber gromets? If that's what is causing the noise anyway. It seems to be a vibration type of noise.
    OK, one other possibility is the hub. If by chance you are using a Mavic hub, the preload on the axle shaft can work its way loose and it will cause the this vibration at 50-75% braking power. I know as I had a set of Mavic Cross max XL's and it took me quite a while to trace it down. If you do, I can explain better what needs to done to eliminate this slop.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZmtncycler
    OK, one other possibility is the hub. If by chance you are using a Mavic hub, the preload on the axle shaft can work its way loose and it will cause the this vibration at 50-75% braking power. I know as I had a set of Mavic Cross max XL's and it took me quite a while to trace it down. If you do, I can explain better what needs to done to eliminate this slop.
    I can tell you in my case that isn't it. I can wipe my rotors down and it goes away for a few hours. I also have the same sound from my front brakes as well. It doesnt seem to hurt anything (mine have done this since the day I bought the bike).

  11. #11
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    Brake howl

    Quote Originally Posted by AZmtncycler
    OK, one other possibility is the hub. .
    My 575 makes a very similar noise when my rear CK hub preload isn't right on. I'd also agree with the suggestion on getting the QR stupid tight. When I do those two things, it doesn't howl. The difference in preload between howl and no howl is pretty small in my case.
    Good luck! As much as I love my 575, it sure does seem to be more random hard to find noise prone than any other bike I or the S.O. have owned. Interestingly, her 03 ASR-sl doesn't seem to have these issues.

  12. #12
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    The Juicy 5 on my Rocky Slayer had been doing that since day 1. Tried everything to make the noise go away. No luck. Just got some new BB7 which I love on my SS and will put them on tomorrow.

  13. #13
    Who is John Galt?
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    Wonder what Avid would have to say on this? Have you tried to contact them?
    What, me hurry?

  14. #14
    In my mind, I can do it!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Jim Mac
    Wonder what Avid would have to say on this? Have you tried to contact them?
    I would love to contact them... If I knew how. They apparently only deal with the LBS and don't deal with end users. If someone knows the number, I would call them direct.

  15. #15
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    Mine does it...

    I've narrowed the reason down to loose spokes and a loose hub (it's a lightweight old wheelset). I tighten up the spokes or tighten/rebuild the hub when it starts howling/vibrating and she's all good again.

  16. #16
    Nightriding rules SuperModerator
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    Quote Originally Posted by iviguy
    I would love to contact them... If I knew how. They apparently only deal with the LBS and don't deal with end users. If someone knows the number, I would call them direct.
    Maybe you can ask Will, Larry or Chad for Avid's CS phone number....

  17. #17
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    I pulled my hair out trying to figure out this problem on my X-5 with Juicy 7s. All it ended up being was that the calipers mount too close to the hubs and the brake pads make contact with the rotor arms. If you put some thin washers between the caliper and the mounting adapters (to move them further away from the axle) you can get the pads out far enough to run on the brake surface and not touch the rotor arms.

    It is kind of hard to describe and just about as hard to get a picture of. I tried to get a picture of the wear pattern on an old rotor. You can see the wear marks touch the rotor arms toward the inside and that the wear pattern does not go all the way out to the edge on the outside edge.

    Shim the calipers out so the pad does not touch the arms and the vibration and noise will be gone.


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  18. #18
    In my mind, I can do it!
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    Quote Originally Posted by 11 Bravo
    I pulled my hair out trying to figure out this problem on my X-5 with Juicy 7s. All it ended up being was that the calipers mount too close to the hubs and the brake pads make contact with the rotor arms. If you put some thin washers between the caliper and the mounting adapters (to move them further away from the axle) you can get the pads out far enough to run on the brake surface and not touch the rotor arms.

    It is kind of hard to describe and just about as hard to get a picture of. I tried to get a picture of the wear pattern on an old rotor. You can see the wear marks touch the rotor arms toward the inside and that the wear pattern does not go all the way out to the edge on the outside edge.

    Shim the calipers out so the pad does not touch the arms and the vibration and noise will be gone.

    Yes, this was one of the first things I did to try and resolve this issue. It's well documented in the brake time forum I think. I couldn't fix the issue with shimming the caliper higher so eventually I replaced the rotors with the G2 clean sweeps which was supposed to resolve the problem but it didn't.

    Oddly enough, when I replace the brake pads with new ones, the brakes are very quiet for about 30 to 40 minutes. Maybe because they are not bedded in yet.

  19. #19
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    I have dealt with this issue as well and it appears to be solved (for now). Some thoughts:

    1. Make sure hub is properly tightened. It's chicken/egg, mine was loose and I had the LBS tighten it correctly. Not sure if it was loose because of the vibration or vibration was because it was loose. In any case, this is definatley something to look out for if you have this problem.

    2. Add washers to caliper mount. You said that you tried this. I did as well and it didn't solve the problem. Some have had luck with it though.

    3. Get a clean sweep rotor (the juicys ship with this rotor in 2007). You also tried this and it didn't work. I never tried it but people have had luck.

    4. Re-press pivot bearings. My vibrations went away after this was done. My LBS (Singletrack Factory in Denver) took the bike up to Yeti. Apparently Yeti is aware of the problem and they have discussed it with Avid. It doesn't sound like there is clear consensus on what causes it. For some bikes, the bearings were pressed too far in. After they re-pressed mine, the problem went away.

    5. Replace pads. Yeti put new pads on my bike while they were re-pressing the bearings. I was instructed by Yeti to ride around the block 4 or 5 times while holding the brakes intermitently (don't let em get too hot) to get the pads bedded evenly. Possibly try some softer pads.

    6. Get tougher skewers. I don't know if this helped but I bought hope skewers (Fox blue). Even if it didn't help, they look awesome.

    7. Loose some weight, fatso. I heard from the guys at my LBS that they have the problem more commonly on the XL frames. They speculated that a batch of XL frames had the bearings pressed incorrectly. This may be right but I'm thinking that it is a rider weight issue. I'm 220lbs with gear. It wouldn't surprise me if bigger riders are experiencing the problem because some part of the system is warping under weight or the force that it takes to slow down bigger riders is more than the juicy system can handle (leading to some kind of warping). Also possible that the mounts on the 575 aren't tough enough to withstand the force of braking with a bigger rider.

  20. #20
    In my mind, I can do it!
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    Quote Originally Posted by B-Rant
    I have dealt with this issue as well and it appears to be solved (for now). Some thoughts:
    1. Make sure hub is properly tightened. It's chicken/egg, mine was loose and I had the LBS tighten it correctly. Not sure if it was loose because of the vibration or vibration was because it was loose. In any case, this is definatley something to look out for if you have this problem.

    Haven't really looked at that but it may be worth looking at. I'll check it out.

    2. Add washers to caliper mount. You said that you tried this. I did as well and it didn't solve the problem. Some have had luck with it though.

    Tried this too with several revisions and adjustments. Made no difference whatsoever.

    3. Get a clean sweep rotor (the juicys ship with this rotor in 2007). You also tried this and it didn't work. I never tried it but people have had luck.

    Just put the new CleanSweep rotors on with the new pads. I thought it was fixed until the pads got bedded in and the rear is loud as ever.

    4. Re-press pivot bearings. My vibrations went away after this was done. My LBS (Singletrack Factory in Denver) took the bike up to Yeti. Apparently Yeti is aware of the problem and they have discussed it with Avid. It doesn't sound like there is clear consensus on what causes it. For some bikes, the bearings were pressed too far in. After they re-pressed mine, the problem went away.

    Now this one may be what finally works. Yeti has already told me that in a couple of cases they have had to repress the bearings and that seemed to resolve the problem. We may get there but there are a couple more things to try before we do. I would have to ship the bike back to the factory and I want to avoid that if possible.

    5. Replace pads. Yeti put new pads on my bike while they were re-pressing the bearings. I was instructed by Yeti to ride around the block 4 or 5 times while holding the brakes intermitently (don't let em get too hot) to get the pads bedded evenly. Possibly try some softer pads.

    Tried new pads, tried the organic pads as well. It was suggested to try a combination of organic on one side and regular on the other. I may give that a try. Not sure yet though.

    6. Get tougher skewers. I don't know if this helped but I bought hope skewers (Fox blue). Even if it didn't help, they look awesome.

    This has been mentioned as well by my LBS. Might try it as well. Although I kind of think that the brakes shouldn't be this finicky. It should just work.

    7. Loose some weight, fatso. I heard from the guys at my LBS that they have the problem more commonly on the XL frames. They speculated that a batch of XL frames had the bearings pressed incorrectly. This may be right but I'm thinking that it is a rider weight issue. I'm 220lbs with gear. It wouldn't surprise me if bigger riders are experiencing the problem because some part of the system is warping under weight or the force that it takes to slow down bigger riders is more than the juicy system can handle (leading to some kind of warping). Also possible that the mounts on the 575 aren't tough enough to withstand the force of braking with a bigger rider.

    Hey, I don't consider 285lbs on a 4'9" frame as being fat...
    If my weight is a factor, the bike has major flaws. I don't think that is the case though.


    Next: Replacing the rear 185mm rotor with a new 160mm rotor. If that doesn't make a difference, will probably either try a different brake system or send it to Yeti. We shall see....

  21. #21
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    It's not just the Juicy's that have this problem. Check out this thread from St. Louis Biking, some good advice here. http://stlbiking.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=5223
    What, me hurry?

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by iviguy
    6. Get tougher skewers. I don't know if this helped but I bought hope skewers (Fox blue). Even if it didn't help, they look awesome.

    This has been mentioned as well by my LBS. Might try it as well. Although I kind of think that the brakes shouldn't be this finicky. It should just work.
    I had the same sound coming out of my front brake, same situation about 75% power, juicy 5 etc and a new skewer (I went shimano) fixed problem one hundred percent. This is what I figure happened, when I tightened QRs they flex frame or in my case fork so when I aligned the caliper the fork wasn't flexed the same amount as when I was out riding it. The higher quality skewer gives me a consistent tightening so I have a perfectly aligned caliper, My old skewers weren't low quality its just that the shimano ones have deeper indentations and a smoother throw so they dig in more which means the same amount each time. This also helped with an alignment issue I had been having with an old crappy deore mechanical rear brake. I would take your LBS advice and try it, 10 bucks for new skewers is worth the chance of not sending frame back to Colorado if it turns out to not help then you could always use them for kabobs I guess

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZmtncycler
    OK, one other possibility is the hub. If by chance you are using a Mavic hub, the preload on the axle shaft can work its way loose and it will cause the this vibration at 50-75% braking power. I know as I had a set of Mavic Cross max XL's and it took me quite a while to trace it down. If you do, I can explain better what needs to done to eliminate this slop.
    AZmtncycler,
    I've got this same noise and I'm rockin a set of Mavic CrossMax XL's as well. Can you post up the details of what needs to be done? I need to try something new. This is freaking killing me!
    Thanks,
    J

  24. #24
    In my mind, I can do it!
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeremyp111
    AZmtncycler,
    I've got this same noise and I'm rockin a set of Mavic CrossMax XL's as well. Can you post up the details of what needs to be done? I need to try something new. This is freaking killing me!
    Thanks,
    J
    What size rotor do you use in the rear? I eliminated that noise by going from the 185mm to the 160mm rotor on the rear and I don't suffer any braking consequences from it.

    Something was causing the 185mm to reverberate loudly at about 50-75% braking power. The 160's don't seem to have that problem.
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  25. #25
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    what to check

    Quote Originally Posted by jeremyp111
    AZmtncycler,
    I've got this same noise and I'm rockin a set of Mavic CrossMax XL's as well. Can you post up the details of what needs to be done? I need to try something new. This is freaking killing me!
    Thanks,
    J
    If axle is loose.
    1. remove wheel, pull end cap off of nondrive side.
    2. Take two allen (hex) wrenches and insert them on both sides of the axle. I can't remember the sizes...
    3. Tighten the slop that may have developed between the drive and nondrive side axle connection.
    4. reinstall the end cap and you should be good to go.
    5. good luck!
    No dabs allowed!

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