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  1. #1
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    Help, Advice please...

    I have been noticing that the rear brake rotor seemed to be very difficult to get adjusted with the brakes. It makes loud squealing noises so I have been trying to adjust it. What I noticed is that no matter how hard I tried to get it adjusted it seemed to be slightly bent because it rubs on one side of the rotor. I looked at the rotor very carefully and noticed that it was not bent at all.

    Then I started looking at other things, the wheel is already out of true. I had said that some of the spokes were not very taunt and apparently I was correct, they aren't and the wheel is not true after 2 rides. Then I started to notice that while the wheel was spinning the cassette has a slight wobble. The wheel is free spinning and the cassette is not spinning. So it appears that something is bent in the hub itself.

    I have a total of 2 rides on this bike and since I bought it over the internet I'm not sure how to handle this. I don't want to send my wheel back and wait for 2 or 3 weeks to get it back.

    Any suggestions?

  2. #2
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    On one of your (many) posts yesterday, wasn't the general consesus that you should have your LBS tighten the spokes for you? I think it's a good idea, get the wheels dished and trued. It's not uncommon at all for wheels that have been as slay3d as hard as your giving them to get whacked out of true in no time, especially new ones.

    Don't get all bummed out cuz your rims have a number 3 first, not a number 8...it's not measuring the size of your unit. Ride the rims until they're thrashed, then get new ones. I have a feeling that the rides your doing wouldn't mean an overnight bivy to get back to civilization if you had a taco'd rim while riding, right? Those Mavic 317's are good rims, and should last a decade of dallas-esque roots.

    Are you sure your wheel is in the dropouts correctly? Triple check.

    I've bought bikes over the net (like my used 575 that allows me to see god) and as far as getting LBS service, you're SOL, but that's why you got a cool grand off retail, right? Suck it up, take the wheels to a local wrench, and have them re-true them, and scope the cable tension. If the shop you're going to sells Yeti's, and they are going to recognize you as the guy who didn't buy the bike from them, bring beer. good beer. bike shop guys can be a-holes sometimes, and you don't want to piss off someone who is tweaking your wheels.

  3. #3
    In my mind, I can do it!
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    Quote Originally Posted by lacticacidbath
    On one of your (many) posts yesterday, wasn't the general consesus that you should have your LBS tighten the spokes for you? I think it's a good idea, get the wheels dished and trued. It's not uncommon at all for wheels that have been as slay3d as hard as your giving them to get whacked out of true in no time, especially new ones.

    Don't get all bummed out cuz your rims have a number 3 first, not a number 8...it's not measuring the size of your unit. Ride the rims until they're thrashed, then get new ones. I have a feeling that the rides your doing wouldn't mean an overnight bivy to get back to civilization if you had a taco'd rim while riding, right? Those Mavic 317's are good rims, and should last a decade of dallas-esque roots.

    Are you sure your wheel is in the dropouts correctly? Triple check.

    I've bought bikes over the net (like my used 575 that allows me to see god) and as far as getting LBS service, you're SOL, but that's why you got a cool grand off retail, right? Suck it up, take the wheels to a local wrench, and have them re-true them, and scope the cable tension. If the shop you're going to sells Yeti's, and they are going to recognize you as the guy who didn't buy the bike from them, bring beer. good beer. bike shop guys can be a-holes sometimes, and you don't want to piss off someone who is tweaking your wheels.
    Yesterday's (many) posts were about the spoke tension but I'm not convinced that is the issue here. The issue seems to be that the 'hub' is not totally true. The wheel seems like it's out of true but after closer observation I believe that the issue is that the hub is the problem. If it were just the wheel I would just get it trued, NP. The hub is causing the rotor to be impossible to setup correctly with the brake calipers. No matter how hard I try, it still wabbles and touches the brake pads on one side with each rotation. The cassette also wobbles a bit while the wheel is spinning.

    Given that this is a hub issue, it seems like it should be a warranty issue. Thats the way I see it.

  4. #4
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    Have you tried truing the brake rotor? Sounds like the issue, not the hub. Hub is not a likely culprit. Take it to a shop if you don't know what you're doing.
    I stopped driving my bike into my garage - I'm now protected with Roof Rack Ranger app for my iPhone.

  5. #5
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    Ivi,
    I remember there being an ongoing issue with a specific shape of Avid rotors where they were notorious for constant squealing, with no fix available. If you have that shape rotor you may want to send them back to avid for a pair of their normal round rotors. If you don't have that shape rotor, I would post this issue on the brake forum to see if you get more helpful replies.

    Regardsing your wheels, I remember when I bought a Spec FSR two years ago both wheels immediately went out of true after about three rides (the rear was pretty bad). Rather than take it to the shop, I bought 2 spoke wrenches (bought the wrong size the first time) and a $30 truing stand from performance. Those tools, along with my Zinn maintenance book and cone wrenches, have kept all my wheels (223, 717, and DS2 rims) solid over the last 2.5 years.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikerx40
    Have you tried truing the brake rotor? Sounds like the issue, not the hub. Hub is not a likely culprit. Take it to a shop if you don't know what you're doing.
    The hub is the only thing it can be. The rotor is true. Like I said, while the wheel is turning the cassette wobbles at the same spot, as it would with the hub being slightly off or bent. The wheel, cassette, and rotor all wobble in the same place. It can't be simply a rotor issue. I even tried a different skewer thinking maybe that had something to do with it but same issue.

  7. #7
    In my mind, I can do it!
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    Quote Originally Posted by antonio
    Ivi,
    I remember there being an ongoing issue with a specific shape of Avid rotors where they were notorious for constant squealing, with no fix available. If you have that shape rotor you may want to send them back to avid for a pair of their normal round rotors. If you don't have that shape rotor, I would post this issue on the brake forum to see if you get more helpful replies.

    Regardsing your wheels, I remember when I bought a Spec FSR two years ago both wheels immediately went out of true after about three rides (the rear was pretty bad). Rather than take it to the shop, I bought 2 spoke wrenches (bought the wrong size the first time) and a $30 truing stand from performance. Those tools, along with my Zinn maintenance book and cone wrenches, have kept all my wheels (223, 717, and DS2 rims) solid over the last 2.5 years.
    Yeah, I read that thread about the rotors. I very closely inspected the rotors and this is not the same issue. The rotors match up with the brake pads.

    I know it's not a common thing with the hub being out of true with the cassette but I am sure that is what this is. It's the only thing that makes sense.

    With each rotation of the wheel, the rim is out of true, the rotor is out of true and the cassette wobbles slightly and these all seem to be in the same area of the wheel. This would be consistant with something being bent slightly between the hub and the freewheel.

  8. #8
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    So, how did you like those 223's? I have them on my 575, and had WTB Laserdiscs on my old bike. So far, they sem ok, but a little narrow, and maybe somewhat squirly, but that could be the fork being set a little soft, I can't tell yet.

    It sounds like yours have lasted a long time....anything to look out for?

    Sorry to hijack your thread ivi


    Quote Originally Posted by antonio
    Ivi,
    I remember there being an ongoing issue with a specific shape of Avid rotors where they were notorious for constant squealing, with no fix available. If you have that shape rotor you may want to send them back to avid for a pair of their normal round rotors. If you don't have that shape rotor, I would post this issue on the brake forum to see if you get more helpful replies.

    Regardsing your wheels, I remember when I bought a Spec FSR two years ago both wheels immediately went out of true after about three rides (the rear was pretty bad). Rather than take it to the shop, I bought 2 spoke wrenches (bought the wrong size the first time) and a $30 truing stand from performance. Those tools, along with my Zinn maintenance book and cone wrenches, have kept all my wheels (223, 717, and DS2 rims) solid over the last 2.5 years.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by iviguy
    I have been noticing that the rear brake rotor seemed to be very difficult to get adjusted with the brakes. It makes loud squealing noises so I have been trying to adjust it. What I noticed is that no matter how hard I tried to get it adjusted it seemed to be slightly bent because it rubs on one side of the rotor. I looked at the rotor very carefully and noticed that it was not bent at all.

    Then I started looking at other things, the wheel is already out of true. I had said that some of the spokes were not very taunt and apparently I was correct, they aren't and the wheel is not true after 2 rides. Then I started to notice that while the wheel was spinning the cassette has a slight wobble. The wheel is free spinning and the cassette is not spinning. So it appears that something is bent in the hub itself.

    I have a total of 2 rides on this bike and since I bought it over the internet I'm not sure how to handle this. I don't want to send my wheel back and wait for 2 or 3 weeks to get it back.

    Any suggestions?
    I think you mentioned you have an '06 enduro kit... I got the '05 enduro kit with the LX hub and 317 rims, not sure if '06 has this as well. Whatever. I had a lot of play in my rear hub recently, took it into my LBS they retightened and voila! no more play. Took them all of 5 minutes and cost me nothing, but then again... I bought the bike from them

    good luck.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by bike=good
    I think you mentioned you have an '06 enduro kit... I got the '05 enduro kit with the LX hub and 317 rims, not sure if '06 has this as well. Whatever. I had a lot of play in my rear hub recently, took it into my LBS they retightened and voila! no more play. Took them all of 5 minutes and cost me nothing, but then again... I bought the bike from them

    good luck.
    Well, that is possible I guess. I didn't notice any play in the hub but it could explain why it's off a bit. I can check into that.

    Thanks

  11. #11
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    agree with bike=good

    Quote Originally Posted by iviguy
    Well, that is possible I guess. I didn't notice any play in the hub but it could explain why it's off a bit. I can check into that.

    Thanks
    it's probably play in the hub. The non- drive side cone maybe a little loose. Nothing some cone wrenches couldn't fix in about 3 minutes (I think you'll need a 15mm and 17mm cone wrench for the Deore hubs). If your hub is loose, it will cause the hub body to flop arund on the axle which is why you'll see the rotor and the cassette wobble (as well as the whole wheel)... Fortunately, if it's a Shimano hub, it's still using the good old traditional cup and cone system which makes them fully adjustable and easily rebuildable with a few basic tools. Check the Park Tools site if you want step by step pictorial instructions on how to tighten up a hub.

  12. #12
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    This is a great example of the advantages of buying from an LBS. Like others have said, bring it in to an LBS to have them look at it, and be prepared to pay their hourly rate, even if they are just looking at it. It will be worth the peace of mind. And beer is always appreciated (but ask first... my LBS wrench doesn't drink, so we bring him quality Root Beer). Sending the wheel back will be more money and time than it's worth.

    W/ that said, it sounds like you have a machine built wheel, and it's not surprising that it's out of true. W/ machine built wheels, you should always double-check spoke tension before your first ride. They often are off, and out of true straight out of the box! No big deal... 10 minutes or less w/ a spoke wrench can fix 'em up nicely. Nothing to get "bent out of shape" about

    As for the cassette wobble, I'm not sure of the cause, but I've seen this many times before. My cassette even does it. I believe it is more a function of the internals rather than a anything being bent. If something was bent in the hub itself, it is likely that the hub wouldn't spin/coast correctly. I bet if you were to put it up on a stand and spin the cranks (not letting the rear wheel coast) you wouldn't see a wobble. Try that out. Do check and make sure that sucker is tight though. If you don't have the chain whip and hub tool to do so, buy it while your at your LBS getting the wheel looked at.

    Regarding the brakes... I can't imagine that the hub is the issue. Even if it were crooked (again, very unlikely... that wheel would have to be JACKED for this to be so), the calipers could be adjusted to coincide w/ the angle of the rotor. This assumes the rotor is true, as you indicated.

    As an aside, I find that mechanical brakes (Avid) are much easier to deal w/ in general than hydraulics. Seems like I'm always tweaking my Avid Juicy's for rub issues (and previous Hayes brakes), but my wifes mechanicals (and my old ones) are so easy to maintain and keep rub free in comparison. Something you just have to live with. Lastly, for the squeak... have you tried rubbing down the rotor w/ rubbing alcohol? Worked for me.


    Quote Originally Posted by iviguy
    I have been noticing that the rear brake rotor seemed to be very difficult to get adjusted with the brakes. It makes loud squealing noises so I have been trying to adjust it. What I noticed is that no matter how hard I tried to get it adjusted it seemed to be slightly bent because it rubs on one side of the rotor. I looked at the rotor very carefully and noticed that it was not bent at all.

    Then I started looking at other things, the wheel is already out of true. I had said that some of the spokes were not very taunt and apparently I was correct, they aren't and the wheel is not true after 2 rides. Then I started to notice that while the wheel was spinning the cassette has a slight wobble. The wheel is free spinning and the cassette is not spinning. So it appears that something is bent in the hub itself.

    I have a total of 2 rides on this bike and since I bought it over the internet I'm not sure how to handle this. I don't want to send my wheel back and wait for 2 or 3 weeks to get it back.

    Any suggestions?

  13. #13
    In my mind, I can do it!
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    Quote Originally Posted by SLinBend
    This is a great example of the advantages of buying from an LBS. Like others have said, bring it in to an LBS to have them look at it, and be prepared to pay their hourly rate, even if they are just looking at it. It will be worth the peace of mind. And beer is always appreciated (but ask first... my LBS wrench doesn't drink, so we bring him quality Root Beer). Sending the wheel back will be more money and time than it's worth.

    W/ that said, it sounds like you have a machine built wheel, and it's not surprising that it's out of true. W/ machine built wheels, you should always double-check spoke tension before your first ride. They often are off, and out of true straight out of the box! No big deal... 10 minutes or less w/ a spoke wrench can fix 'em up nicely. Nothing to get "bent out of shape" about

    As for the cassette wobble, I'm not sure of the cause, but I've seen this many times before. My cassette even does it. I believe it is more a function of the internals rather than a anything being bent. If something was bent in the hub itself, it is likely that the hub wouldn't spin/coast correctly. I bet if you were to put it up on a stand and spin the cranks (not letting the rear wheel coast) you wouldn't see a wobble. Try that out. Do check and make sure that sucker is tight though. If you don't have the chain whip and hub tool to do so, buy it while your at your LBS getting the wheel looked at.

    Regarding the brakes... I can't imagine that the hub is the issue. Even if it were crooked (again, very unlikely... that wheel would have to be JACKED for this to be so), the calipers could be adjusted to coincide w/ the angle of the rotor. This assumes the rotor is true, as you indicated.

    As an aside, I find that mechanical brakes (Avid) are much easier to deal w/ in general than hydraulics. Seems like I'm always tweaking my Avid Juicy's for rub issues (and previous Hayes brakes), but my wifes mechanicals (and my old ones) are so easy to maintain and keep rub free in comparison. Something you just have to live with. Lastly, for the squeak... have you tried rubbing down the rotor w/ rubbing alcohol? Worked for me.
    I called Will at fullcycles and explained what I am seeing and he stated that it sounded like a problem in the drive (I assume he is talking about the freehub assy) and he is going to send me a new wheel to replace this one. Who says you can't get great service from an IBS? (Internet bike shop) He didn't try to give me a hard time or question my findings, he listened and provided a solution. I cannot say enough about the great experience I have had with Fullcycles.com. HIGHLY RECOMMENDED!!

    When I get the new wheel in and installed I'll be able to see the difference immediately.

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