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  1. #1
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    DT Swiss XR400 rims and Tubeless?

    Has anybody made the XR400s tubeless? Any issues ?

    Thanks,

    Flash

  2. #2
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    I used the Stan's 29er XC kit and it has been bomb proof.

    Took the DT strips out, put one layer of the narrow yellow tape included with the kit on to cover the spoke holes, put the rubber strips on top. Mounted tires and put sealant in before setting the bead on both sides. Spritzed tire bead with lightly sudsy stuff (helps it slide out and set into the rim hook). Used compressed air to seat the tires, finished with floor pump. I've put over 100 miles of trail, much of it chunky, on them with nil issues.

    Note: based upon others comments and my personal experience with the wheels, particularly as you don't seem to be a fly-weight dude, I'd suggest having a good wheel builder go over the wheels to increase the spoke tension a bit from stock and pre-stress them in order to maximize their lifetime.

    My front wheel is peachy but my rear has needed some work to bring it back into true/round and in so doing I feel the the spokes were at a pretty low tension. I'm not a pro wheel builder, but the wheels on my hard-tail have "tons" of miles on them (couple thousand?) and are running true ... of course they are rolling Stan's Flow rims and that helps, structurally speaking.

    If I remember you saying you're around 250 riding weight, I'd plan on getting some rims to replace the stock ones with, eventually.

    Either talk nice to DT to see what you can get out of them (they helped out another SB95 owner) or something like the Stan's Flow (burlier than XR400, easy-peasy tubeless) or Flow Ex (new model, burlier yet).

    FWIW, notubes.com is having a sale right now on the "base model" Flow rims.

    Disclaimer: I am not affiliated with Stan's or Notubes.com in any way, I've just been happily (ab)using their product for years.

  3. #3
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    Flash,

    Had mine converted to tubeless before it ever left the showroom floor. No issues thus far. They used the Stan's conversion kit (Stems and Tape) on mine and they used Oragne Seal for the sealant. I am new to moutain biking so not hitting things too hard at the moment. Good luck!
    2009 Bacchetta Giro 26 Road
    2012 Yeti SB95 Off Road

  4. #4
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    Thanks for the replies, guys. Looks like I have a weekend project ahead!

    Flash

  5. #5
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    Made mine tubeless before my SB-95 left the bike shop. Had issues with burping on just about every ride, and put 3 flat spots in the rear wheel before I reached 200 miles. Had the 400s replaced with Stans Arch EXs- 75 miles in, I am very pleased with the decision. Much stiffer, and no burping issues.

    215, 6'5", so no fly weight here.
    Yeti SB-95a Black

  6. #6
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    Had the same question for my new sb-95. Thanks to all for the input. Also, have enjoyed reading Bear and Bacon's posts for a while (forum voyeur...hehe). Helped in my decision about which bike to get and haven't been disappointed with the choice to get an sb-95!

  7. #7
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    Congrats Meesta!

    Keep the rubber side down.

  8. #8
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    FWIW, I'm also running the Ardent and the Ikon tubeless on the XR400s with Stans kit. 50+ miles in 4 days and couldn't be happier.

  9. #9
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    I had a small number of people tell me that you COULD use just stan's yellow tape and valve and convert to tubeless, but with how the tires fit on the rims I didn't feel confident in that - I wanted the extra volume taken up by the rubber strips.

    They never let me down, while I had the XR400's on the bike at least, nor on any other rim I've had them on over the years.

  10. #10
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    XR400 durability and tubeless experience

    I had XR400's on my Pivot 29er, I was debating buying a new wheelset or just replacing the XR400 rims with ARCH EX rims. I have had issues with both Front and Rear staying true. After only half a season, both rims need to be replaced. Sounds like from others the XR400's are not as sturdy as the Arch's or other rims out there.

    I know this form is about going tubeless with XR400's. The shop setup my XR400 tubeless before I left shop. I believe the LBS just used the stans kit as they did not charge me for the setup (and DT kit is $50 a wheel). I have had no issues with the tubeless, no burping, tires seat great, I do run about 32psi and have to sometimes add a little air about once a week. I ran the rims with Specialized Control Captain tires.

    However, I don't think I will buy the XR400 rims again. I am glad I read this form that others are having the same durability issues.

  11. #11
    Lucky...
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    Just picked up a Big Top race build with the XR400 rims; already have the rear in for truing and to have a ding pulled out. Grand total of 35 miles. Hoping to get about 250 out of them before I have to replace.

    Been very pleased with the Arch EXs on my SB-95. Probably have 1,000 hard, off-road CTX miles on them, and they are still round and true.
    Yeti SB-95a Black

  12. #12
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    Mr. Bacon, dude you're 6'5" and 215# ! I assume we can add another 10# for riding gear weight? The 400 is a narrow (19mm) XC rim, I'm surprised you didn't fully explode the thing in the parking lot test. Them rims work great for a lot of people, but the Stans Arch EX is a 21mm wide rim and is more like a DT 500 series rim. Apple to apples, man. FWIW, my experience is similar: I can easily put a DT 400 out of true quite quickly, but have had great success with 500, 5.1, etc. rims from DT. I'm 6'2" and about 205# fully geared with Camelbak.

    That said, my girlfriend runs DT 400 rims with the Stans conversion kit and has ZERO issues with them staying true, burping, or otherwise. She's also 5'2" and well under a buck-fiddy with a full Camelbak.
    The older I get, the faster I was.





    Punch it, Chewie.

  13. #13
    Lucky...
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    ^^^ True that! Not the right rim for my size or riding style. Knew that going in, but the deal on the Big Top as a fully built bike made having to replace the rims pretty quickly not that big a deal.

    Only question is what to get- Arch EXs again, or do I risk a bit more dough and order a pair of CF hoops from China? Lighter, stronger, and stiffer, and anecdotal evidence suggest they are working out well for most (bigger) folks.
    Yeti SB-95a Black

  14. #14
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    I as well am the owner of a new 2013 Big Top build with DT XR400 rims and over the course of 3 months and 170+ miles have bent the rear rim twice pretty significantly (I roll probably 185-ish lbs fully geared up).

    The first dent the shop was able to "remove" (ie bend back out) but the 2nd dent they decided to let it be as it still managed to setup tubless with the stock Ikon's. So at least that part is working out for me. However I now fear running the rear tire at anything less than 35 psi for any trail condition, which kinda mitigates some of the advantages of setting up tubeless in the first place.

    I anticipate upgrading to Stan's Arch or Flow EX's here shortly.

  15. #15
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    ... the xr400's are probably not also intended for the downhill-like-a-dh-bike attitude I have, over here in rocky PA ... especially as I started riding them at over 220# rider weight alone ... but then again Yeti should have anticipated that kind of use of the bike I bought and put on something more appropriate. :P

  16. #16
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    It is interesting that the pre-production demo bikes came with XR470s, which seemed to be more burly. Only a bit heavier (20g) and actually cheaper, at about the same width. Wonder what design or business decision drove Yeti to spec the 400, especially on the SB-95. Maybe the only pre-build 29er wheel DT Swiss could supply at the right price?
    Yeti SB-95a Black

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Bacon Jr View Post
    ....what design or business decision drove Yeti to spec the 400 ...
    I'm assuming (!) that they used what they already had in stock for the Big Top.

  18. #18
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    I've run the 29" XR400s tubeless for about 850 miles so far. Yellow tape, Stan's valve stem, and Kenda Karma 1.9 L3R Pro's. Took a week or so to seal up properly, but since then, I've had zero problems. It's time to replace the tires.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vampir View Post
    I've run the 29" XR400s tubeless for about 850 miles so far. Yellow tape, Stan's valve stem, and Kenda Karma 1.9 L3R Pro's. Took a week or so to seal up properly, but since then, I've had zero problems. It's time to replace the tires.
    The beauty of Kendas- 850 miles of use. If I get 300 out of a set of Schwalbes, I am happy.
    Yeti SB-95a Black

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Bacon Jr View Post
    The beauty of Kendas- 850 miles of use. If I get 300 out of a set of Schwalbes, I am happy.
    I'm debating kendas, I have the wierd issue that I only have two recent tire experiences with kenda 29er tires

    - nevegal (aka: old faithful, or as a friend once described another tire - trail "suction cups" - never let go, even when it's holding you back)

    - slant6

    I've run both on my hard-tail and been happy with their performance in different ways. the slant6 surprised me in that it went on the hard-tail *last* *november* and got ridden (front and rear) through the winter. The only saving grace is that it was an uncharacteristically dry winter for NE PA ... not "TX dry" but not very snowy ... and while it was at least moist most of the time the tires turned out to be pretty controllable if not optimal.

    And bejeebers the slant6 roll.

    I'm considering setting up my two wheelsets next springs as "aggro" vs "xc" and changing wheels for the ride...if I'm going to be doing a particularly XC "thang".

  21. #21
    Lucky...
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    Rode Nevegals for 3 years, front and back. Great traction, and last forever; usually got the dreaded Nevagoiter before the tread wore out.

    Then I test rode the SB-95, which had RaRas on it- the difference in rotating weight and decrease in rolling resistance made me an instant convert. I now run some combination of RaRa, Nobby Nic, and Hans Dampf and have been very happy. Other than the fact they wear out rather quickly.
    Yeti SB-95a Black

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Bacon Jr View Post
    ... some combination of RaRa, Nobby Nic, and Hans Dampf and have been very happy. Other than the fact they wear out rather quickly.
    Define "quickly" please.

  23. #23
    Lucky...
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    RaRa on the rear dead in 200-250 miles, max. Or about a month
    RaRa on the front, 400+, or 2 months
    Nobby Nic, rear, 300 or so, front 450 or so
    Hans Dampf- front, 350 to date, about ready to replace.
    Yeti SB-95a Black

  24. #24
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    Thx, most mileage I've gotten on the back tire so far was from a Geax Sturdy at ~260 miles. Currently running WTB Bronson TCS so we'll see how that goes.

    The Ardent 2.4 on the front lasted about 470 miles, the Rampage 2.35 that replaced it is worn but going strong at approaching 430 miles.

  25. #25
    Lucky...
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    So what is your current favorite combo? Just swapped the RaRa on the front of the Big Top for a Nobby Nic today. Love the RaRa on the rear for just about anything here in CTX, but on the front it tends to wash out. As I was reminded yesterday on our Wed group ride- on my ass in an easy (but loose) corner.
    Yeti SB-95a Black

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