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  1. #1
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    CCDB on SB-66 wins again!

    I should have known from my past 4 experiences with the Cane Creek Double Barrel on Turner, Specialized, and Intense bikes that it would transform the bike. First off, if you are having trouble with the firm feeling of the SB and want the best of both worlds, you need to get a properly tuned coil shock. IMO!! The Avy, felt great on the bike. No complaints...BUT, I couldn't help but wonder if the CCDB would give that extra little bit of tunability that goes from great to AMAZING. So, I got a CCDB to test out from a great friend, and threw it on the SB. I had a LOOOONNNGGG talk with Malcolm at Cane Creek about the bike and leverage ratios and how that affects the setup. Specifically how the SAG point can either put the Axle above or below where the eccentric pivot is most efficient or where it is working against you. 25-28% is the best for AM riding, and 30%+/-1% is best for DH/bike park.


    Immediately, with Malcolms' recommended settings, I noticed the bike pedaling as good or better than when the RP23 was on it. What really put the CCDB in the "I knew I should have gotten the CCDB to begin with" Category was I didn't get the HS chop that was there with the RP23 and was able to even better fine tune it a click at a time till I got the best of both worlds. Great pedaling, with controlled HS hits, and perfect rebound response to keep the rear glued to the ground. I still had 16 clicks of LS Compression left to dial in even more improved pedal performance if you are looking for firmer beginning stroke.

    Suspension Experts also did a mod on my 2012 Lyrik RC2 DH Coil(170mm) that worked great. It required me to keep the LS compression on the Mission control between all the way closed to about 4 clicks from fully closed, with HS compression turned 1 click from fully open. This gave it great cornering stability with little to no brake dive, and great small bump compliance.

    So, I've had the chance to experiment with a few different setups of suspension and tunes, and I think I've landed on what allows the SB66 to truly do what it was designed to do. As with most high end products, it's really hard to have a bad experience. At this point it just comes down to rider preference and if you are a set it and leave kind of rider, or like to tinker and wrench. I'm the latter. It's part of the fun to me! More CCDB ride and tune impressions to come.

    If you want to get the CCDB, I would buy it from MTB Suspension Experts. They have been tremendous to work with and were more than helpful in assisting getting the shock set up right for the SB and it's new design.

    Suspension Experts Home Page
    Kevin Booth
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails CCDB on SB-66 wins again!-ccdb.jpg  

    CCDB on SB-66 wins again!-ccdb2.jpg  


  2. #2
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    sweet, wonder how the ccdbair will compare to the rp23

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by While At Rome View Post
    sweet, wonder how the ccdbair will compare to the rp23
    I'd imagine it will blow it away. CC isn't going to make an air shock if it is going to cost them their CCDB reputation, and it uses the same twin-tube tech as the coil, so dampening characteristics will be similar.
    What is left to be seen is whether they can un-couple bottom out and sag, which has been the traditional downfall of air canisters, especially with larger riders.

    The RP23 is the most common shock on the market, not the most popular amongst those that actually spec their own bikes.

  4. #4
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    Have you thought about getting the avalanche revalved at all? You were full of praise last time around so would a fine tune yield the same results? What I'm wondering is whether you are feeling the shock or feeling the tune.

    If you went back to the avy would it have any redeeming features or is it just a worse solution than the ccdb?

    Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by petercarm View Post
    Have you thought about getting the avalanche revalved at all? You were full of praise last time around so would a fine tune yield the same results? What I'm wondering is whether you are feeling the shock or feeling the tune.

    If you went back to the avy would it have any redeeming features or is it just a worse solution than the ccdb?

    Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk
    Yeah getting the Avy re-tuned is always an option. Thing is, time down for shipping it out, cost to do so, turn around to get it back, and I can do all of that with a few clicks on the CCDB.

    Remember we are talking minor adjustments. Both shocks are great. I like to wrench and tinker, so havin the ability to tune without complete disassembly is a big plus for me. And I will say, there is a feel to the CCDB that I missed. Can't put my finger on it exactly but just felt like home when things got moving.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by CharacterZero View Post
    I'd imagine it will blow it away. CC isn't going to make an air shock if it is going to cost them their CCDB reputation, and it uses the same twin-tube tech as the coil, so dampening characteristics will be similar.
    What is left to be seen is whether they can un-couple bottom out and sag, which has been the traditional downfall of air canisters, especially with larger riders.

    The RP23 is the most common shock on the market, not the most popular amongst those that actually spec their own bikes.
    Nailed it

  7. #7
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    Very nice Aapling! So, you running the fork in the 170mm setting? and if so, what's your static BB, <14"? I have a 170 DH solo air Lyrik, spaced down to 160 to run on the SB-66 when I get it built, but curious how it the bike feels and handles in the 170 setting?
    Ride On!

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgusta View Post
    Very nice Aapling! So, you running the fork in the 170mm setting? and if so, what's your static BB, <14"? I have a 170 DH solo air Lyrik, spaced down to 160 to run on the SB-66 when I get it built, but curious how it the bike feels and handles in the 170 setting?
    Yes, the Lyrik is in the 170mm setting. My HA is 65.1 degrees. Might appear to slack on paper, but translates great on the trail, at least IMO. I only notice a little wandering on something really steep. However, those are usually short steep bursts here on the East Coast. There are long fireroad climbs but the SB climbs really good even with the 170mm fork. Point it down and the CCDB and Lyrik mated to the SB66 design is great.

    I don't have a measurement on the BB height. I'll get that and post it.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by aappling72 View Post
    Yes, the Lyrik is in the 170mm setting. My HA is 65.1 degrees. Might appear to slack on paper, but translates great on the trail, at least IMO. I only notice a little wandering on something really steep. However, those are usually short steep bursts here on the East Coast. There are long fireroad climbs but the SB climbs really good even with the 170mm fork. Point it down and the CCDB and Lyrik mated to the SB66 design is great.

    I don't have a measurement on the BB height. I'll get that and post it.
    Thanks man! Yeah I had my fork in 170 setting on my Rune with a custom -1.0 head angleset for my 1.5" fork (Saar set), making for a 65.4* HTA which felt great on the rowdy trail descents with some chunk and big booters, but raised my bike up enough to notice some hinderance on the climbs and steepened the STA enough to noticed it on longer climbs as well forcing me to raise my post even higher for the climbs to compensate.

    Your bike looks great, wondering how it would do at Whistler or other bike parks? Looks like it could handle it fine. BTW, are you running a frameskin kit on your frame? I am going to be building a frame here in the next week (just waiting a tapered steerer assembly from RS) and trying to decide if it is worth to wait and pay for the sticker kit.
    Ride On!

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by aappling72 View Post
    Suspension Experts also did a mod on my 2012 Lyrik RC2 DH Coil(170mm) that worked great. It required me to keep the LS compression on the Mission control between all the way closed to about 4 clicks from fully closed, with HS compression turned 1 click from fully open. This gave it great cornering stability with little to no brake dive, and great small bump compliance.
    So does this mean that you took the Avy cartridge out of the Lyrik and that you prefer the Mission Control damper with a modded shim stack?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by nybike1971 View Post
    So does this mean that you took the Avy cartridge out of the Lyrik and that you prefer the Mission Control damper with a modded shim stack?
    Yes I took the Avy cartridge out. I need a little more ride time on the fork, but as of right now it is a very close match between the two. The nod might go to the Avy a little on the HS stuff, but honestly they both feel really good and controlled. Suspension Experts did a great job!

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgusta View Post
    Thanks man! Yeah I had my fork in 170 setting on my Rune with a custom -1.0 head angleset for my 1.5" fork (Saar set), making for a 65.4* HTA which felt great on the rowdy trail descents with some chunk and big booters, but raised my bike up enough to notice some hinderance on the climbs and steepened the STA enough to noticed it on longer climbs as well forcing me to raise my post even higher for the climbs to compensate.

    Your bike looks great, wondering how it would do at Whistler or other bike parks? Looks like it could handle it fine. BTW, are you running a frameskin kit on your frame? I am going to be building a frame here in the next week (just waiting a tapered steerer assembly from RS) and trying to decide if it is worth to wait and pay for the sticker kit.

    Totally worth getting the frameskin kit. Very well done and goes on great! I used some old 3M protection film I had on a couple of other areas and it attracted dirt on the edges and the frame skin really didn't, and if it did it wiped off! So I say get it. I'm ordering a cople of plain sheets!

  13. #13
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    Discussing this with another this morning and wanted to get a bit of insight...

    Since I have no idea what the leverage curve is like for that frame, how are you finding the CCDB to handle bottom out control? Of course, the CCDB doesn't have a dedicated adjustment for that, more a combination of LSC/HSC changes, but the AVY did have a dedicated bottom out control built in.

    What are your thoughts on how the two shocks compare in that regard? Do you know what the end-stroke of the sb66 looks like? Is there bottom out control built into the linkage?

    Thanks in advance!

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by CharacterZero View Post
    Discussing this with another this morning and wanted to get a bit of insight...

    Since I have no idea what the leverage curve is like for that frame, how are you finding the CCDB to handle bottom out control? Of course, the CCDB doesn't have a dedicated adjustment for that, more a combination of LSC/HSC changes, but the AVY did have a dedicated bottom out control built in.

    What are your thoughts on how the two shocks compare in that regard? Do you know what the end-stroke of the sb66 looks like? Is there bottom out control built into the linkage?

    Thanks in advance!
    I've had no problem with bottoming on the CCDB. In talking with Malcolm, the curve is relatively flat with small hump at about 25-28% sag mark which is the sweet spot for the eccentric pivot. So getting the shock properly sprung (I'm on a 350# at 170lb ride weight), is really crucial. The biggest drop I've hit with it is about 5' with a very slight transition and it felt very controlled and smooth. Malcolm said to start at 1 full turn from fully open on HSC, and 1.5 full turns from fully open in HSR. I'm at 15 clicks from full closed on LSC, and 13 clicks from full closed on LSR, with 4.5 turns of preload. I'm gonna try a 400# spring to see how that feels as well, but I'm digging where I'm at (28% sag) as a balance between pedaling and high speed control.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by aappling72 View Post
    I've had no problem with bottoming on the CCDB. In talking with Malcolm, the curve is relatively flat with small hump at about 25-28% sag mark which is the sweet spot for the eccentric pivot. So getting the shock properly sprung (I'm on a 350# at 170lb ride weight), is really crucial. The biggest drop I've hit with it is about 5' with a very slight transition and it felt very controlled and smooth. Malcolm said to start at 1 full turn from fully open on HSC, and 1.5 full turns from fully open in HSR. I'm at 15 clicks from full closed on LSC, and 13 clicks from full closed on LSR, with 4.5 turns of preload. I'm gonna try a 400# spring to see how that feels as well, but I'm digging where I'm at (28% sag) as a balance between pedaling and high speed control.
    Cool. Thanks for the quick response. Yeah, Malcolm and crew over there are absolutely great when it comes to getting things dialed. I dug the CCDB so much on my Terremoto there was just no way to not run it on the Delirium I am on now.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by CharacterZero View Post
    Cool. Thanks for the quick response. Yeah, Malcolm and crew over there are absolutely great when it comes to getting things dialed. I dug the CCDB so much on my Terremoto there was just no way to not run it on the Delirium I am on now.
    I feel the same way. I liked the AVY too, buy there is just something special about the way the CCDB tracks when set up right. Do you have an SB66 too?

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by aappling72 View Post
    I feel the same way. I liked the AVY too, buy there is just something special about the way the CCDB tracks when set up right. Do you have an SB66 too?
    Nope, no Yetis in my stable yet. Really happy with the current whip, got a buddy that is a tribe member and another buddy that is really sold on the 575 and is shopping (with my help), hence my increased interest in the lineup and suspension characteristics.
    I wanted a do-it-all that was a bit tougher than the last rig, and the D is very good at everything I've put it thru from WinterPark/Keystone to AM riding in Austin.

  18. #18
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    What's the shock size? I think I really want to go coil but money is holding me back.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Transfer View Post
    What's the shock size? I think I really want to go coil but money is holding me back.
    8.5 x 2.5. For the money you've already spent its worth it to get the CCDB!

  20. #20
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    Whats the mean difference between the avy and ccdb? I'm going to put a coil on and it's between the 2. I was thinking with the ccdb you would be able to adjust it from a all day pedal to a dh shuttle day.As with the avy it's not as adjustable to do that.I like to set and forget it but I could find 2 different setting that work with the ccdb and change as to what I'm riding that day.

  21. #21
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    I loved the CCDB on my Uzzi VP, wish I had one for the SB-66 that will get here next week. I think I will have the RP-23 Push'd first and go from there.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by tdubb View Post
    Whats the mean difference between the avy and ccdb? I'm going to put a coil on and it's between the 2. I was thinking with the ccdb you would be able to adjust it from a all day pedal to a dh shuttle day.As with the avy it's not as adjustable to do that.I like to set and forget it but I could find 2 different setting that work with the ccdb and change as to what I'm riding that day.
    That's exactly the biggest advantage. The ability to even adjust during a ride for a long DH descent or a long climb. The CCDB really takes advantage of why the bike has to offer.

    Sell the RP23, and get the CCDB. Call Kevin @ Suspension Experts Home Page and tell him Ashley sent you and order your CCDB from them. They are Cane Creeks official service center too. Great guy great price. You won't regret it!!

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by TejasMTB View Post
    I loved the CCDB on my Uzzi VP, wish I had one for the SB-66 that will get here next week. I think I will have the RP-23 Push'd first and go from there.
    I listed my RP23 when I knew the. Ike had shipped and had it sold in a couple of days. Don't waist your money pushing the RP23. Besides, they don't have Kashima parts to service it with anyway. Tell Kevin @ Suspension Experts Home Page Ashley sent you and order your CCDB from them. He'll hook you up and they are great with help tuning it!!

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by aappling72 View Post
    I've had no problem with bottoming on the CCDB. In talking with Malcolm, the curve is relatively flat with small hump at about 25-28% sag mark which is the sweet spot for the eccentric pivot. So getting the shock properly sprung (I'm on a 350# at 170lb ride weight), is really crucial. The biggest drop I've hit with it is about 5' with a very slight transition and it felt very controlled and smooth. Malcolm said to start at 1 full turn from fully open on HSC, and 1.5 full turns from fully open in HSR. I'm at 15 clicks from full closed on LSC, and 13 clicks from full closed on LSR, with 4.5 turns of preload. I'm gonna try a 400# spring to see how that feels as well, but I'm digging where I'm at (28% sag) as a balance between pedaling and high speed control.
    Wonder how the lack of bottom out control comes into play with heavier riders. I'm 240 pounds and seriously considering this shock with a Ti coil.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by trailbrain View Post
    Wonder how the lack of bottom out control comes into play with heavier riders. I'm 240 pounds and seriously considering this shock with a Ti coil.
    Choosing the right spring rate and then adjusting HSC will resolve any bottom out issues. I know ive listed this a couple of times already in this thread, but talk to Kevin Booth at Suspension Experts Home Page. Great guy full of knowledge. He'll point you in the right direction!

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