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Thread: 575 pedal stall

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    575 pedal stall

    Any of you 575 riders noticed while climbing over rocky stuff pedal stall? Meaning you go to pedal and their isn't tension on the chain thus no power. This is while hammering a step climb, standing, in the middle ring.

  2. #2
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    Never had it happen to me, but interesting to note. I'd think it be a very noticealbe thing, considering the cranks would spin super fast with no resistance (if I understand correctly).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jdub
    Never had it happen to me, but interesting to note. I'd think it be a very noticealbe thing, considering the cranks would spin super fast with no resistance (if I understand correctly).
    It only seems to happen the split second the suspension compresses. Next time out I will try and replicate it several times and figure it out more.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nagaredama
    It only seems to happen the split second the suspension compresses. Next time out I will try and replicate it several times and figure it out more.
    Sounds more like the hub not enguaging quickly enough to me. Shimano hubs seem to have that dead spot before they enguage. Is that what you are talking about?

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    Quote Originally Posted by iviguy
    Sounds more like the hub not enguaging quickly enough to me. Shimano hubs seem to have that dead spot before they enguage. Is that what you are talking about?
    I have an XT rear hub on the bike and I don't believe that is it.

    I ride some rocky stuff uphill next Tuesday and report back.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nagaredama
    I have an XT rear hub on the bike and I don't believe that is it.

    I ride some rocky stuff uphill next Tuesday and report back.
    I had an XT rear hub on my other bike and never noticed that dead area either until I rode a guys bike that had CK hubs. Because they had no dead area whatsoever I really noticed that on my XT hubs after that. I think there are only like 20 points of engagement on an XT hub and something like a hundred on the CK. Someone will correct me though...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nagaredama
    I have an XT rear hub on the bike and I don't believe that is it.

    I ride some rocky stuff uphill next Tuesday and report back.
    I'll correct myself. Did a google search and came up with this:

    Hub - Engagement points - Price (US$) - Weight
    Chris King Classic* 72 250 268 g
    Chris King ISO disc* 72 280 306 g
    DT Hugi 18 260 235 g
    DT Onyx 18 150 355 g
    Hope Bulb 36 200 375 g
    Hope XC 21 125 385 g
    Planet X Goliath 24 175 ?
    Planet X Mono 24 140 ?
    RB Design Tractor DB32 36 200 385 g
    Shimano LX 16 25 426 g
    Shimano LX Silent-Clutch 36 45 529 g
    Shimano XT 16 50 445 g
    Shimano XTR 24 190 371 g
    Sun 439 36 150 417 g
    Sun 439 Lite 36 180 337 g
    Sun ABBAH 48 250 425 g
    Trueprecision Stealth 102 270 480 g

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by iviguy
    I'll correct myself. Did a google search and came up with this:

    Hub - Engagement points - Price (US$) - Weight

    Shimano XT 16 50 445 g
    Hmm, may have to upgrade to a Hope rear hub. I wonder if I need new spokes.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by iviguy
    Because they had no dead area whatsoever I really noticed that on my XT hubs after that.
    Yeah I had a similar experience. I had a set of WTB Laserdisc Lites (Am Classic rebranded) which I thought were fine. I then got a set of the 108pt engagement Hadleys and couldn't believe how much faster the engagement was. No idea how many engagement points the WTBs had, but there was quite a noticeable difference.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nagaredama
    Hmm, may have to upgrade to a Hope rear hub. I wonder if I need new spokes.
    Why the hope? The Hope XC only has 21 and the Bulb only has 36. 36 wouldn't be bad though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by iviguy
    Why the hope? The Hope XC only has 21 and the Bulb only has 36. 36 wouldn't be bad though.
    I was referring to the Bulbs. They are about $100 cheaper than the Kings!

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nagaredama
    I was referring to the Bulbs. They are about $100 cheaper than the Kings!
    Before you drop any cash be sure and verify that information. I just grabbed this stuff of someone's post on a different forum. It could be wrong and I haven't been able to verify the 36 points on the Hope hubs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by iviguy
    Before you drop any cash be sure and verify that information. I just grabbed this stuff of someone's post on a different forum. It could be wrong and I haven't been able to verify the 36 points on the Hope hubs.
    Per Hope's website...The Bulbs have 21 point engagement and the new Pro II's have 24 point engagement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nagaredama
    It only seems to happen the split second the suspension compresses. Next time out I will try and replicate it several times and figure it out more.
    I have only had my 575 for two weeks and have been working out the bugs and that exact thing is a problem. It must have to do with chain growth from the suspension design of a low mono-pivot. It has a curved pattern. I remember a post this past winter on a forum where the poster ran 5 bikes through a program and plotted chain growth and rear axle path. They used a VPP, high mono, low mono and a horst to compare the differences. I wish that I printed that out. It is like you lost your freewheel clutch or your cassette cannot keep up for a second. Your chain aroundyour front ring is fixed and my fat ass will compress the suspension so the 2 weakest points are the cassette and rear deraileur.

    It is worse with more sag vs body weight (ie- 10# or 5# less versus body weight) in the RP3.

    Am I nuts or is this bike chain noisey?? I wrapped a halved tube around the seatstay to try and help.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack'sDad
    Am I nuts or is this bike chain noisey?? I wrapped a halved tube around the seatstay to try and help.
    Yeah I notice more chain slap noise on this bike than others. One thing that helped me a ton is going to a 2x9 setup and shortening the chain, make a huge difference.

  16. #16
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    I run a XT rear hub and can't identify with your problem. I ride plenty of slow, technical up's in my area.

    Are you saying that when you go to 'hammer' up a 10 or 12inch stairstep the pedals just move freely for a bit with no actual force applied towards forward momentum? If so I do not have this problem on my bike...

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nagaredama
    Per Hope's website...The Bulbs have 21 point engagement and the new Pro II's have 24 point engagement.
    kings are the shiz

    but the budget choice is hadley. no website but you can find lots of dealers online. the HD has 36 points of engagment. the trials version has 108

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    It is such a strange feeling that you feel that the bike is broken for a mili-second. I must preface that i run my RP3 with less air than recommended for my weight. I enjoy that plush feeling. On two climbs on my local loop if I "stay seated" it will happen when you hit something and cycle through the suspension, when coming back up the rear cassette will take a bit to engage again on that pedal stroke, it feels like the chain fell off for that time then engages. You never lose traction or stall momentum, just a feeling in the pedals/cranks/chain. It is not the freewheel because it works perfectly the rest of the ride.

    I could correct it by getting out of the saddle or putting more air in RP3 to + body weight.

  19. #19
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    Is it worse if you climb in the granny gear? If so, I bet it's pedal feedback. When the suspension compresses over a larger bump the chain grows (like you mentioned earlier), which pulls back on the crank. It takes a little extra force to keep the cranks going. Then when the suspension releases there would be a dead spot as you have described. Personally I find the initial extra tension more noticeable, and the feedback is worse in the granny gear.

    I hardly notice the feedback now that I almost exclusively climb in the middle ring, accelerate before hitting rough terrain, and try to keep my power delivery smooth.

    I had noisy chainslap until I installed a pad on the chainstay. I am still getting used to the loud noise of rocks and sticks hitting the downtube. It's like the frame is an amplifier, thanks to the relatively thin tubing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gunfodder
    Is it worse if you climb in the granny gear? If so, I bet it's pedal feedback. When the suspension compresses over a larger bump the chain grows (like you mentioned earlier), which pulls back on the crank. It takes a little extra force to keep the cranks going. Then when the suspension releases there would be a dead spot as you have described. Personally I find the initial extra tension more noticeable, and the feedback is worse in the granny gear.

    I hardly notice the feedback now that I almost exclusively climb in the middle ring, accelerate before hitting rough terrain, and try to keep my power delivery smooth.

    I had noisy chainslap until I installed a pad on the chainstay. I am still getting used to the loud noise of rocks and sticks hitting the downtube. It's like the frame is an amplifier, thanks to the relatively thin tubing.

    I dont want to "Dis" any ones bike but i thought the Yeti had more pedal feed back than most bikes i have ridden. in my limited experince..I went from a Yeti straight on to a S-works stumpy and the feedback was very noticable on the same peice of trail

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by mzungo
    I dont want to "Dis" any ones bike but i thought the Yeti had more pedal feed back than most bikes i have ridden. in my limited experince..I went from a Yeti straight on to a S-works stumpy and the feedback was very noticable on the same peice of trail
    The stumpy is designed to minimize pedal feedback by limiting chain growth during suspension movement. I have compared the travel path of the Stumpy and the 575 in software and the difference in chain growth is significant.

    The price you pay for the lack of chain tension is increased bob. The high monopivot design has always used chain tension to firm up the suspension while climbing. Several of the newer linkage designs (VPP and the DW-Link) also use chain tension to help control bobbing.

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    If it is the hub, go with one that has a high number of engagement points. The new Hadleys have 72 and the Chris Kings are the same. Personally, I like the benefits of the 72 points over one in the 20s and 30s. I can tell a big difference in technical, slow sections. I can rachet through and make it that way. I love doing that. Anyway, those two are also among the best hubs so you can't go wrong. The Hadleys will spin quicker and the CKs take time to break in and may be a bit stiff for a few months.

  23. #23
    the 36 year old grom
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flyer
    If it is the hub, go with one that has a high number of engagement points. The new Hadleys have 72 and the Chris Kings are the same. Personally, I like the benefits of the 72 points over one in the 20s and 30s. I can tell a big difference in technical, slow sections. I can rachet through and make it that way. I love doing that. Anyway, those two are also among the best hubs so you can't go wrong. The Hadleys will spin quicker and the CKs take time to break in and may be a bit stiff for a few months.
    Like I said earlier 108. Hadley is a good hub. they are cheaper then king. they don't roll faster. they are just cheaper. right down to the off the shelf disposable cartridge baerings. hadley would be my second choice.


    http://www.universalcycles.com/shopp...7&category=735

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    The Hadleys roll faster for sure when both are new. The CKs take a little while to break in and if you put them on a road bike, you can really feel the tighter rolling. On a mtn bike, it's hard to tell unless you simply spin the wheels. On a road bike going downhill, with new CKs, your buddies will start pulling away while freewheeling- happens with every roadie I've known who had new wheels built with new CKs. After a few hundred miles, they become looser and run quite well. Nothing to do with quality, of course- just something to keep in mind if you're racing (or a roadie) and put on new CKs. That said, it doesn't matter to me- I don't race. You probably don't really care either.

    The New Hadleys have 72 points unlike the previous version with 108 points. I have the 108 but they practically are impossible to find now. They are still around $100 cheaper on a set. They are harder to get but worth the effort if you don't want or can't afford the CKs.

    The cheaper hubs (Hope and DT) are still very good but once you go 72, you can't go back to 36 happily. My Hope XC/819 wheels are not used as much anymore. I'm thinking of rebuilding them with CKs or Hadleys again something soon.

  25. #25
    the 36 year old grom
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flyer
    The Hadleys roll faster for sure when both are new. The CKs take a little while to break in and if you put them on a road bike, you can really feel the tighter rolling. On a mtn bike, it's hard to tell unless you simply spin the wheels. On a road bike going downhill, with new CKs, your buddies will start pulling away while freewheeling- happens with every roadie I've known who had new wheels built with new CKs. After a few hundred miles, they become looser and run quite well. Nothing to do with quality, of course- just something to keep in mind if you're racing (or a roadie) and put on new CKs. That said, it doesn't matter to me- I don't race. You probably don't really care either.

    The New Hadleys have 72 points unlike the previous version with 108 points. I have the 108 but they practically are impossible to find now. They are still around $100 cheaper on a set. They are harder to get but worth the effort if you don't want or can't afford the CKs.

    The cheaper hubs (Hope and DT) are still very good but once you go 72, you can't go back to 36 happily. My Hope XC/819 wheels are not used as much anymore. I'm thinking of rebuilding them with CKs or Hadleys again something soon.
    cool follow up post.yo.

    I ride with a guy with a yeti road project with CK wheels. they seem to roll super fast to me. on dirt he has hadleys and I got king.... I out roll him every day of the week by a wide margin... I coast, he pedals. is it the hubs?? it think its my mojo.

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