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  1. #1
    Giant Anthem
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    Yes, another freaking training question

    Sorry for the incessant training questions guys, I just don't know which direction to go right now. In 2008 I followed Friels plan very closely with ok results, 2009 season I started with the Friel plan then went my own direction with less volume and higher intensity which worked well. From all the help you all have given me I realize that I need to improve my functional threshold power with longer rides in the sweet spot at 50% longer milage than a race. This hopefully will help me raise my average speed during my races next season. As well as this I need to work on my climbing. I feel I have a good grip on what workouts to do but the issue is that I'm not quite sure how put them together to properly per-iodize my season and not be over or under-trained. This is a big fat open ended question but I figured I'd throw it out there for you're 2 cents.

    I can do about 5-8 hours a week next season and am in cat 2
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  2. #2
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    Reputation: Poncharelli's Avatar
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    Maybe something like this:

    Tues: 1.0 hr Breakthrough (BT) workout
    Wed: 1.5- hr Endurance
    Thurs: 1.0 BT
    Friday: 0.5 Easy spin
    Sat: 1.5 hr MTB or BT
    Sun: 2.5 hr Endurance

    =8.0 hours total

    Breakthrough workouts should be FTP improvers: Tempo, SST, Threshold. Those are the ones to do.

    First month try building to 1-hr Tempo on BT days. If you're tired or unmotivated, do Endurance on a BT day.
    Second month try one SST day per week(start with 20-30min, build to 45min) on BT days. Keep the other Tempo. Replace with Endurance if tired.
    Third month, move up to Threshold (2-3X10-15min) and SST (up to 45min-1 hour) on BT days.

    Make every 3rd or 4th week, a 5-hour rest week, with mostly endurance-pace riding.


    After 3 or so months of this, I usually improve my FTP 20-30 Watts; then spend the next couple of months "sharpening the knife" with shorter intervals or race-simulation on BT days. I do keep an "FTP improver day" in my workouts, all year round.

    This year, my FTP is pretty descent for November, so hopefully I can add 20-30 Watts to my current number. I'm also doing more endurance time (zone 2) than usual, so see what happens.
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  3. #3
    Giant Anthem
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poncharelli
    Maybe something like this:

    Tues: 1.0 hr Breakthrough (BT) workout
    Wed: 1.5- hr Endurance
    Thurs: 1.0 BT
    Friday: 0.5 Easy spin
    Sat: 1.5 hr MTB or BT
    Sun: 2.5 hr Endurance

    =8.0 hours total

    Breakthrough workouts should be FTP improvers: Tempo, SST, Threshold. Those are the ones to do.

    First month try building to 1-hr Tempo on BT days. If you're tired or unmotivated, do Endurance on a BT day.
    Second month try one SST day per week(start with 20-30min, build to 45min) on BT days. Keep the other Tempo. Replace with Endurance if tired.
    Third month, move up to Threshold (2-3X10-15min) and SST (up to 45min-1 hour) on BT days.

    Make every 3rd or 4th week, a 5-hour rest week, with mostly endurance-pace riding.


    After 3 or so months of this, I usually improve my FTP 20-30 Watts; then spend the next couple of months "sharpening the knife" with shorter intervals or race-simulation on BT days. I do keep an "FTP improver day" in my workouts, all year round.

    This year, my FTP is pretty descent for November, so hopefully I can add 20-30 Watts to my current number. I'm also doing more endurance time (zone 2) than usual, so see what happens.
    This will help me a lot!! I just need to dial in the intensity just right for the Tempo SS and threshold-other than that this looks great
    Racing and Training Blog
    http://dirtandgears.blogspot.com/

  4. #4
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    I like what Poncharelli put out there... solid stuff.

    One thing to try if you can stomach it is to throw in some trainer drills. ILT's and Max RPM stuff will help with your cadence and smoothness while climbing. Don't neglect your mechanics!

    Also, try not to end-load your weeks too much. If you can get in a longer ride mid-week, do it!

    Mon- off
    Tues- 1hr drills (ILT, Spinups, ME work)
    Wed- 2hr Key workout
    Thurs- 1hr spin
    Fri - off
    Sat - 1.5 hr Key workout
    Sun - 2hr endurance

    If you end load your weeks too much then you will not acheive proper overload-supercompensation effect.

    We work on a 16-5 calendar so basically two weeks on (3 weekends) and 5 days off.

  5. #5
    LMN
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    Training is about stress and rest.

    On a hr week program I would make my workouts harder and my rest easier.

    For example:

    Monday: OFF
    Tuesday: 1.5hr ride with 1hr of intensity (the structure of that should change as the season progresses)
    Wednesday: off
    Thursday: 1.5hr ride with 1hr of intensity (the structure of that should change as the season progresses)
    Friday: off
    Saturday: 3hr road ride or MTB ride, with 1 to 2 hrs of intensity.
    Sunday: 2hr MTB ride, with a skill focus


    Five days to train is nice. But with training a lot of time is wasted on preparation and post ride activities. If you reduce to four days you may find that you can ride a bit longer and have extra time. As long as your workouts are sufficiently stressfully four days a week is very effective.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMN
    As long as your workouts are sufficiently stressfully four days a week is very effective.
    4-days works for me. Wed/Thu & Sat/Sun. Wed/Thu are more structured. Weekends are higher volume, with less structure.

    The 2 consecutive rest day (Mon-Tue) makes for strong workouts Wed/Thu. Rest on Friday and then put in a big weekend. After Sunday I am ready for a 2 day break.. then start again.

  7. #7
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    good advice

    Man you guys should be coaches...oh, wait some of you are coaches!

    All of us have very real training-time constraints and love to see great ideas on maximizing bang for buck.

  8. #8
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    First, don’t make training harder than it is. There really aren't secrets to going fast, its power to weight ratio. If you have any weight to lose, make that your 1st priority, and by that I mean if you are 10% or higher body fat you have weight to lose.

    Any coach is going to preach and I mean PREACH interval work but intervals SUCK MAJOR A$$....so what I do is link up LONG climbs on my mountain rides and hammer each one of them at or slightly above my LT HR. For example, I’ll do a 2.5 hour mountain ride with 4K of elevation gain that has about 3 climbs of 1000ft each in them…I’ll just peg it on each climb and kinda relax a little in the flats. I’m sure that there are some interval workouts that achieve better results with different people. I’m gonna flat out say that if you want to maximize your results training you HAVE to have a power meter, there I said it. Go get a used powertap from ebay. I say this is because I’ve personally seen HR swings up up to 20 beats at the same average power. The other one is…without quantifiable numbers you are just guessing where you are at. I’m not saying you can’t get results, but you will get them faster with a power meter. A power meter allows you to do repeatable workouts that you can analyze, but don’t obsess about them, we ride for fun right? The cool thing about a power meter is it allows you to push yourself just a tad harder every time you do interval work because you know exactly where you were last time. You can say to yourself “I’ve done 350 watts, I KNOW I can do 355.”

    During the week it’s harder for me to get on the mountain, so I do power intervals on my road bike (I also commute to work daily 30 minutes each way). Do whatever works for you. It’s hard to for me to find roads near my house where I can do longer than 8 minute intervals. So I’ll do repeats say 3 – 4 of 6-8 minute intervals on Tuesday nights if I’m recovered from the weekend if not I push them to Wednesday but never Thursday so I can be rested to hit it hard on the weekends. You can and should do back to back hard workouts on the weekends whenever you feel up to it, but recovery is key.

    I think the hardest lesson to learn is that rest is as important as training. Learn to listen to your body, there’s a difference between being tired and exhaustion, learn the difference.

    Also, hour long intervals will keep you in shape all winter long, do them twice a month right at or just under your LTHR or power. Don’t worry about endurance over the winter, you’ll get that in the spring when you ride more. If you want to get faster don’t ever slow down, ride as much as you can in the winter. Let each year be the foundation for the next year.
    It’s almost universally accepted to do 3 weeks on 1 week off, so do that, train hard for 3 weeks, the 4th week for is fun, just go out and ride but don’t kill it but try to ride as much as you normally do.

    Hit me up if you have questions.

  9. #9
    Giant Anthem
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    Hey guys I wanted to update you all on the training plan you all helped with with. This is the plan below; 4 days a week about 8 hours.

    Sun: Big hard mountain ride 2.5-3 hours minimum (progress from just riding this distance for survival to riding it with race pace and or hill intervals at various lengths throughout the season. Option 2 would be a road ride

    Mon: 2 hour endurance on road or easy off road ride

    Tuesday:Off

    Wed:1.5 with 1 hour intensity tempo (breakthrough)

    Thurs:Off

    Frid:1.5 with 1 hour intensity with tempo (breakthrough)

    Sat:Off

    I have to say that it's pretty hard for me to the big sunday ride and the long endurance ride back to back then do the 1.5 hour tempo ride on wed. By the end of the week i'm tired, so is it more important to complete all the workouts with less intensity and get the 8 hours in, or should I skip a workout if I go to hard? I guess I'm asking if the time (getting in 8 hours) is more important than intensity at this point.

    I'm hoping the program will build a good base for springtime when it's racepace workout time. Most of the work now is on the trainer which is a whole differnt ball game than off road riding-tough!!

    Thanks guys.
    Racing and Training Blog
    http://dirtandgears.blogspot.com/

  10. #10
    Man up
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    How'd this work for you?
    '08 GF Montare
    '10 Rockhopper SS
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    (Most) always down for a ride in the Gville area

  11. #11
    aka RossC
    Reputation: ocean breathes salty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by orion_134
    How'd this work for you?
    like this

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by ocean breathes salty
    like this
    Hahaha....+1 on making the link between these threads

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