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  1. #1
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    xc racing is lame

    -as a spectator sport.

    I'm sure many of you like it, and I do too but for most people televised xc racing is right down there with bowling and golf on the excitement scale, which is to say tragically dull. And though I much prefer mountain biking I find pro road racing a lot more entertaining to watch., aside from better filming and announcing it also has a lot more layers than xc, multiple stages, sprint points, climbing points, team tactics, etc. all add to the entertainment value.

    What do you think could improve xc racing? Or just leave it alone? I'm not really complaining, I'll still look forward to and watch every race and I'm grateful that it's televised at all but I do think it could be a lot better. A few thoughts-

    better commentary- no offense to Rob and Bart but it's time for them to move aside

    better filming- I realize this is mostly a matter of $$$ but I think they fall disappointingly short as far as capturing the speed and excitement of the sport. Also key moments are missed because of lack of coverage, watching riders 20+ back rounding a corner while Nino and JA are nowhere to be seen on the decisive final climb is a joke.

    bigger tracks with longer climbs? ~10km climbs create a lot of opportunities and drama in road racing, I wonder if it would with mountain biking?

    Multiple stages, time trials?

  2. #2
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    lack of camera's in the right places are a big part of the problem IMO, as you mentioned. same goes for cross races. dare i say i think it would be awesome for a few people to wear body camera's during the race. they're pretty small and light now and would be really interesting to me. just look how well it works for YouTube/Vimeo.
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  3. #3
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    Onboard cameras would add a lot I think. I'd like to see the riders' POV for technical descents, crashes, attacks and so on. It could help to better capture the speed of it, like you said, and it would eliminate the issue of not enough camera angles on course. And I'm 100% with you that Rob ad Bart have got to go. Rob was never an xc racer, and while I'm sure Bart knows what he's talking about, he just doesn't speak English very well. As a result, their commentary mostly consists of weighing the pros and cons of full suspension bikes vs hardtails for the duration of the race.


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  4. #4
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    I disagree, personally. Last year's TdF was painfully bad viewing, and not just because there wasn't much drama to get excited about. The coverage was crap. They missed a ton of opportunities to really provide good overall views of what was going on, especially considering the resources they have to work with. My fiancé and I were in agreement on that, and then her brother, a former pro rider, launched into an unprompted complaint about all the same things. And I can only take so much Phil Liggett. He rivals Madden for saying stupid off-topic things. According to urban legend, Madden once drew three arrows on a blimp shot showing how the rivers converge into some kind of vortex at Three Rivers Stadium. During the Corsican part of the 2013 Tour, Liggett referred to a dry river channel as an overflow for the Mediterranean Sea.

    So my fiancé and I bailed on following the Tour and started watching the XC races on RedBull, in addition to the DH. And we were pleasantly surprised by how good a job they're doing of it. The DH coverage has gotten much better over the last few years, and the XC was even better, due to the logistics of covering the different format. The increasingly technical courses make for great spectacle. I agree that Rob Warner could be better. Frankly he's a great color man; Red Bull is making a mistake by cleaning him up, toning him down, and making him the straight man. On the DH coverage, he and Claudio should be reversed. On the XC, he's a little better because the expectations for Rob Warner coverage are different, but I don't doubt someone else could do it better.

  5. #5
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    To put the excitement of televised XCO racing into context, they put poker on TV and call it a sport. And apparently people must watch it or they would have stopped long ago.

    Spectating a World Cup XCO race live is fun, but you can only be so many places at once, so Red Bull's TV coverage still gives you a better sense of what is happening during the race than spectating live. Keeping the courses short gives spectators a chance to move around more, and a course like Mont Sainte Anne where it crosses back over itself several times is great, you can watch from multiple locations in one lap and it makes for easier deployment of cameras. The longer MSA courses included a bigger range of terrain, I liked spectating that snake pit of trails on the east end of MSA, there was some tricky stuff, especially when it was damp, but they had trouble getting camera coverage to work with the lighting through the trees.

    If you hope for longer climbs to make a difference in excitement, consider Xterra event coverage, once a pass happens in the bike stage, that is all the excitement there was to see, then it's just a long string of riders passing a point after that.

    If you go the other way and look at the way to maximize action density, then CX races are the best example, lots of action and passing and slipping and sliding and running. But it isn't the same kind of experience as an XCO race. Already a race being an average of 90 minutes instead of 2 hours takes some of the endurance aspect out of XCO racing.

    The way to give a sense of the action would never happen because of the extra weight, but a stereo live action camera on every rider's helmet in the top 25 or so riders would give you a better sense of the action in a race, but then it becomes a VR adventure and not a regular TV broadcast. The director could still take the individual rider shots to incorporate into a 2D broadcast, but without that 3rd dimension we all know how cameras suck the steepness out of trail photos.

    Rob Warner is the straight man in the duo, he's the guy responsible for asking the questions that are the general public stand-ins. He's not really that out of touch with what XC racing is all about or on bike technology, he's got a director in his ear coaxing him on what to ask Bart. Bart likely has more brand recognition in Europe than in North America. But the times they have had guest commentators who are current racers with them it has been more interesting to listen to.
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  6. #6
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    It has improved with the more technical courses. A few more camera's in better tech locations. Some courses seem more exciting than others.

    Better commentary, Bart is boring. Rob would be better with someone who has more personality. We need a character XC guy... Hermida or Catherine P or Georgia G one day (after any of them retire)? Frishi was OK as a quest. More quests would be good.

    Or maybe just a straight up media trained type who actually knows how to carry a show, but also knows the sport.

  7. #7
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    How about not having the same 2 guys winning every race. I'm ok with the coverage. More cameras would be nice but I can't stand listing to Bart and Rob talk about full suspension VS hardtail or if dropper posts really make a difference for the 100th time. I actually like watching the ladies races because it feels like more people have a shot at winning. I love XCO but witching the Nino and Absalon win every race gets kind of old. If the courses get any more technical it is just going to be enduro racing.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by pulser View Post
    How about not having the same 2 guys winning every race. I'm ok with the coverage. More cameras would be nice but I can't stand listing to Bart and Rob talk about full suspension VS hardtail or if dropper posts really make a difference for the 100th time. I actually like watching the ladies races because it feels like more people have a shot at winning. I love XCO but witching the Nino and Absalon win every race gets kind of old. If the courses get any more technical it is just going to be enduro racing.
    This^ Hoping Kulhavy will find more form and become a third contender. Love the ladies races. Albstadt seems like a hard course to film, Cairns coverage was good.

  9. #9
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    Can anyone suggest a sport that is better covered, while happening in the woods?
    The move to shorter courses was to give the viewers access to more of the course, so that won't change. The technical nature has increased, because the courses have been shortened.

    The nature of riders being single file and strung out makes it very hard to follow all the action at once, I believe they do a pretty decent job considering the many difficulties of filming this sport.

  10. #10
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    Maybe they need to do like British Touring Car and add ballast every time you win. Nino and Absalon could ride around with backpacks full of lead giving more people a shot at wining.

  11. #11
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    Gotta disagree... I found watching Nino battling Absalom at last year's World Cup enthralling! The way those guys can power up climbs is unreal!! The coverage (i.e. camera placement) is excellent.

    I prefer to ride Enduro type trails, but watching EWS is pointless b/c you can't see the majority of course.

    DH has better camera coverage than Enduro...

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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by pulser View Post
    How about not having the same 2 guys winning every race.
    lol, that might add some spice. Actually for me it's not so much that it's always the Nino/JA show, I love a good duel of the titans, it's the near certainty of the general outcome and the lack of what unfolds (as far as what the film captures) between the start/finish line. Once they survive the start lap shakedown there's another lap of weeding out the second tier elites and then it's just down to the dynamic duo, which wouldn't be so bad except that barring a mechanical or crash you can pretty much put it on snooze until the final lap because probably nothing is going to change until then.

    Again, comparing to road racing where long climbs produce fantastic drama where attacks are launched and reeled in, riders crack, and sometimes recover, and 30 second leads are tenuous. Great stuff that unfolds before your eyes due to great camera work that really puts the viewer in the heat of the action.

    Comparatively, a 30 second lead in xco races is pretty daunting and seldom overcome IME. I think due to the nature of the races and course layouts riders pretty much run close to redline from start to finish so the time gaps between riders grow or narrow at more or less a constant rate throughout the race, which doesn't exactly add to the excitement.

    Anyway, all this from a couch surfing wannabe, hopefully someone in the know will set me straight. Really, I'm don't mean to be a whiner and I'll take what I can get, which I appreciate and is still a lot of fun.

  13. #13
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    I don't think it's really that bad. Red Bull's coverage is pretty good to me. Has anyone seen the Euro Championships coverage a few weeks back? That made me want to grow my hair back...just so I can pull it out.

    Lol...I do think it would be a bit more exciting if the riders were more evenly matched. On the women's side...once the lead (this time being Langvad, but usually Neff) rider gets out front...that's pretty much it. The race comes down to who gets second and third. Same with the men. I was more interested in the second to fifth place riders. There are still moments where I go "holy crap".

    I guess that's why the race is kept fairly short at around 1:30...so you don't get too bored watching the race.

    Albstadt was pretty darn cool to watch for me. Watching Absalon pass five riders at once on a bypass was pretty awesome.

    There are a couple local XC races I go to in March. We'll just bring the lawn chairs with some food and drinks. Plop down and hang out for the afternoon.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by pulser View Post
    If the courses get any more technical it is just going to be enduro racing.
    Not really the case...the climbs would still be timed and the deciding factor. Having even more tech would make the descents an equal factor in deciding the outcome and drive equipment more toward what most people would like to buy for trail riding.

    I also disagree with the general sentiment of the OP. I feel the racing is very exciting to watch, especially considering the relative lack of sponsorship funds.

  15. #15
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    I Think Rob is brilliant when he's not held back.
    His mini interview with Eddie Masters is a classic.
    Search YouTube for it...

  16. #16
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    I disagree with OP. I think coverage is great and the camera work is always improving. I love the cable cam stuff. Rob Warner IS the voice of UCI MTB in my opinion, but he is less colorful in his current toned-down role. Bart's English is a bit of a hurdle, but I think the formula of a TV personality keeping the show moving along (Rob Warner) paired with a subject matter expert to explain the details (Bart) works. How ironic that Rob is the TV personality and not the subject matter expert?

    XC MTB is what it is and I think that it has been trending towards TV/venue spectator friendliness for a while with shorter more-condensed courses and race times. If you love it, you tune in and if you think it's boring you'll not bother. There is a 24/7 golf TV channel after all, but I still have no interest in golf and it doesn't get me to watch a single second of it. I groan and roll my eyes at each new artificial rock garden though, enough of that stuff. I think there should be more uphill rock gardens, that would actually make those sections meaningful by rewarding the mix of skills and strength.

    I agree with the practically scripted boredom of the Nino/Julien show race after race. Their duels are heated and exciting, but at the same time it is too much of a good thing and somewhat predictable. That's not their fault or Red Bull's fault though, just the reality of today's MTB elite field. Agreed that ladies racing is more open and therefore unpredictable and exciting.

  17. #17
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    Eventually everyone seems to hate a dominant race winner. Michael Schumacher and Ferrari, then Sebastian Vettel and Red Bull, now Lewis Hamilton and Mercedes in F1. In NASCAR it was Jimmy Johnson. It likely happened with Tiger Woods in golf. But when the top competitors are so close, it only takes a tiny percentage of difference to make a dominant winner. This is the downside of a tight field of competition.

    The thing that makes a competitive sport gripping to watch is a see saw battle, and lots of lead changes, and racers overcoming a problem or setback. To me that is the worst part of the 90 minute race format, a technical problem can take someone completely out of contention, depending where and when it happens. In the longer 120 minute race, it was possible for a racer to have a technical issue and still recover into a competitive position, passing a lot of other riders. Recent races have shown it is possible if they are superhuman and lucky about where on the course it happens and if it happens very early, but that is the exception rather than the rule.
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  18. #18
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    I have a feeling most, if not all of the people who feel the coverage is great are speaking from within the choir. I know I am, and again, I do enjoy the races and coverage but I just think there is a lot of room for improvement.

    Rob Warner "The voice of UCI"? He seems like a great guy and is excellent on the DH races but he seems to know little about xc, it would be nice to have an insider on the mic. Bart is just out of touch with current trends.

    I know coverage is improving and I realize that filming in the woods is challenging and it mostly comes down to revenue, but I still think there is a long way to go as far as really capturing the excitement of the sport. My wife (not particularly a cycling enthusiast) enjoys watching road racing and downhill mountain biking but I don't think I've ever seen her look at an xc race for more than a 5 second stretch.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockyuphill View Post
    Eventually everyone seems to hate a dominant race winner.
    I don't, I was a huge Tiger Woods fan but it was different because he didn't win every tournament, and underdogs would often sneak in a win. Much more unpredictable IME.

    I agree with you about the race format, and they need to figure out a way to get the cameras in the riders faces to capture more of the drama and decisive moments.

  20. #20
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    Bart runs a pro MTB team and still competes in the Cape Epic, so I would say he is most certainly not out touch with current trends. Rob has been covering the UCI MTB DH for so many years, and it has been several years as the XCO commentator, that I just associate him with the coverage. I would say he knows a lot but like someone else mentioned, his role is to ask the questions that are the general public stand-ins and let Bart the expert provide the detailed answer.

    But we clearly disagree about this commenting duo, nothing wrong with that. They are both insiders, both are former World Cup pros. But they sort of play a role for the camera.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewarnerusa View Post
    Bart runs a pro MTB team and still competes in the Cape Epic, so I would say he is most certainly not out touch with current trends.
    Maybe so but he doesn't articulate that on camera, and he definitely doesn't provide detailed expert analysis to Rob's "straight man" questions, usually something vague like "ya, these guys like the hardtail because they weigh less".

    I agree to disagree but again I'm guessing you probably race xc or at least ride a lot of xc, I'm just trying to judge the situation critically. Just dreaming but if xc had the money that road racing does we'd be seeing a lot different coverage, which would be pretty cool.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    What do you think could improve xc racing?
    As a spectator sport?

    Shorter laps, shorter races, more mud, skinnier tires, drop bars, Belgian beer... oh... wait...

  23. #23
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    I'll throw my comments in here as a somewhat normal mtber who doesn't race. I also ride road, commute and am pretty happy with all things bike. I've been riding mtb's since 1985, so I've been at it a while and have seen the racing scene change much over the years.

    I watch a lot of UCI road racing since I can as I work on a second monitor, one day races, minor stage races, the grand tours. There's drama in spectacular settings, even the one day races are long enough that you can watch peoples fitness change throughout the day, the various strategies play out over varied terrain, who attacks where and when, who succeeds, who fails. I've ridden on some of the same roads which also is cool, to watch mutants ride at a level that is beyond what you could ever consider. They are doing what I do, riding what I ride, just at a much, much higher level.

    I watch some UCI DH's too. I'm pretty fast on a decent and I can relate, they are also doing what I do, just on more capable equipment and again, at a much, much higer level. Also, I can study their technique and try to apply it to my everyday riding.

    I've watched one UCI world cup XC race this season and some clips of "exciting" finishes. Honestly? Dull as dust. I do appreciate their fitness, which like all pro riders, is extraordinary, and their exceptional technical bike handling skills, since they ride bikes I would never consider riding on the trail. I like big fat tires and 5" of suspension very much myself. But I just don't relate, it's not like the riding I do, at all. It reminds me of a dirt criterium with a bit of passing and maybe a sprint at the end.

    I'd find point to point races much more interesting, I don't watch road criteriums, NASCAR or other circuit races since they are boring, just counting down the laps as people jockey for position until the last few. Cyclocross is a novelty and XC racing isn't far off IMO. I realize that point to point mtb races are a logistical nightmare put on, especially on a local level as well as to cover and sell and that is why XC racing is where it currently is. I think arena racing would take it even further from the experience of the average rider. With new tech though, drones, on bike cams and such, you could possibly cover a long point to point over varied terrain, long climbs, long descents, some rolling stuff. Like a marathon race, or an enduro where you actually had to climb. That's what mtbers do, we could relate to that. They would be riding bikes like what we ride, on trails we ride, just at a much higher level.

    Stage racing would be interesting, but expensive.

    I was a ski racer for a good chunk of my life, xc racing reminds me of that, in that the only people who watch it are those who do or have done it. The same problems are discussed often in that world as well.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewarnerusa View Post
    I disagree with OP. I think coverage is great and the camera work is always improving. I love the cable cam stuff. Rob Warner IS the voice of UCI MTB in my opinion, but he is less colorful in his current toned-down role. Bart's English is a bit of a hurdle, but I think the formula of a TV personality keeping the show moving along (Rob Warner) paired with a subject matter expert to explain the details (Bart) works. How ironic that Rob is the TV personality and not the subject matter expert?
    I agree, I think the coverage is great. Compare to what we had 10 years ago, and it keeps getting better every year. The use of drones is really improving the area of the course they can cover.

  25. #25
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    As people have stated, it seems that most who watch XCO, love it

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoelGuelph View Post
    As people have stated, it seems that most who watch XCO, love it

    Sent from my XT1097 using Tapatalk
    sorry for double post, on mobile.

    If those watching already love it, why do they need Rob to keep asking the everyman questions. I don't know what they should be talking about, but hopefully they can talk about something different.



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    They (race organisers) could offer remuneration to lesser riders to carry/wear these new fangled anti-shake cameras ^^ would provide great footage and a little something for those that are there to get experience ^^

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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.B. Weld View Post
    Bart is just out of touch with current trends.
    The team he manages is 4th in the UCI rankings, only behind BH Suntour, Specialized & Trek factory teams.

    Out of touch or playing a part on a tv show?

  29. #29
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    I love the racing because I understand the pain, the fitness, and the work it took to get there. The racing means something to me because I can relate.

    To be honest, I can watch a full marathon on the roads, or a 10k 25 laps at a time and not get bored for a second. I love watching the little digs, the testing, the big moves, cracked athletes and the inner battles played out right on their faces.

    People who get endurance sports can really appreciate how well the World Cup races are covered. Despite some really significant coverage issues (distance, trees, spread out field), they do a phenomenal job. I've watched other races including the Euro Champs (yikes), Bonelli (survivable when @doperssuck is commentating), and many others and the World Cups are by far the best.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by NordieBoy View Post
    Out of touch or playing a part on a tv show?

    I suppose I'm just out of touch with their target audience then. What's the point in dumbing it down? They basically have an hour to kill between the 2nd and last lap so why not make use of it? Tell me what kind of tires the riders are using, what psi, what gearing are they using on the climbs, what is the grade, how fast are they climbing, average speeds, top speeds, how many watts the riders produce, training regiments, tactics, mind games, general racing trivia, etc. etc.

    Why not?

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    I like the discussion about what gear the riders are on. It's disappointing that Bart so frequently gets it wrong though - he just doesn't seem prepared, which is odd if he manages a team. Rob is frequently asking him questions, getting incorrect answers, and then trying to make sure the correct information gets said without making Bart look stupid.

    Bart's frequent mistakes on factual information that I actually know is wrong leaves me reluctant to put much stock in anything he says really. IMO Bart is terrible in that role.

    I still enjoy the races but the commentary adds little.....except maybe some unintentional comic relief.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottg View Post
    I like the discussion about what gear the riders are on. It's disappointing that Bart so frequently gets it wrong though - he just doesn't seem prepared, which is odd if he manages a team. Rob is frequently asking him questions, getting incorrect answers, and then trying to make sure the correct information gets said without making Bart look stupid.

    Bart's frequent mistakes on factual information that I actually know is wrong leaves me reluctant to put much stock in anything he says really. IMO Bart is terrible in that role.

    I still enjoy the races but the commentary adds little.....except maybe some unintentional comic relief.
    I really wish they would do more Tech features before or after the race. Profile some new stuff the guys are testing actually do a segment on riders using dropper posts.

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    I really enjoy the coverage overall. Redbull TV allows me to see the racing I would not otherwise get to see on regular TV, and I thought the camera work and video looked great. I too would like to see on-bike camera action. I will agree the commentators ask some pretty lame questions, but as mentioned, I suspect this is playing the part. Bart is just really hard for me to understand at times. I'd like to see them mix it up and perhaps have other riders do the color commentary. Also, lets recap how the rest of the field is doing occasionally, not just the top 10. I'm always curious to see how Grotts and Ettinger are doing, but sadly they are often near the back of the pack so it kind of makes sense.

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    I find the web stream to be pretty good in terms of coverage and commentary.

    This is my first season watching the XCO races, so not much experience, but considering the sport and the tracks I'm actually amazed at the quality of the filming and how they bring it to my screen. Maybe I haven't seen that many races, but I find Bart pretty cool and authentic commentator, unlike Rob which seems to be more staged with his narration. English is my second language, however Bart's speaking seems okay to me, he definitely has an accent, but nothing hard to understand.

    Time will tell if it gets boring, for now races are really exciting to me.

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    First of all, road races are often very boring too. Just look at these Sprint finishes. Hours of riding and then it comes down to a few seconds at the end.

    But there are races like this years Paris Roubaix. I watched it from the beginning because I was sick at home. This was really action pure, all those Events unfolding. And then the unexpected winner.

    XCO .... uffff. Always the same two guys winning. The only big unknown is if someone flats or not. Pretty boring.

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    Back in the 90's when I started XC racing (NZ) we had long single lap races of about 45km, these were so much fun, big fields then certain powers wanted more spectator friendly multi lap courses to entertain the people that were not riding, grow the sport they said, better for sponsors etc, the races were less fun and numbers died off to the point that now there are very few local races in my area these days. My view is that XC racing is a participants sport, not a spectator sport and while I watch races on TV when available they do tend to be a bit dull to watch compared to an alpine stage of a road race. However when ever there is a longer single lap race come up I'm keen as to participate.

  37. #37
    Armature speller
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoelGuelph View Post
    sorry for double post, on mobile.

    If those watching already love it, why do they need Rob to keep asking the everyman questions. I don't know what they should be talking about, but hopefully they can talk about something different.



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    They can't let him talk the way he wants to.
    http://www.pinkbike.com/news/rob-war...ideo-2014.html

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  38. #38
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    I love viewing the shorter, multi-lap races with great redbull.tv coverage.

  39. #39
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    I swear Rob & Bart must have read this thread At La Bresse they were discussing tactics, mind games, tire brands & models, psi (Rob did have to poke Bart a few times to get an answer out of him) and a few other things that I don't remember them talking about before. Great job guys, keep it up!

  40. #40
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    We loved going to Mt Snow in the 90's to not only race as amateurs, but to watch the stars of XC hit the techie parts of the course. For anyone familiar with that course, you may recall the extremely tough singletrack boulder section where everyone would hike to for spectating.
    Stick around if you're housebroken...

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by NordieBoy View Post
    Why not? Not like this is on daytime TV...it's streamed on the web, let them be "colorful"

  42. #42
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    I just watched the opening round from Australia. I've watched TDF coverage, but this was my first XC coverage. Thought they did a fairly good job except for going on and on about the heat. Sub 90 degrees is not all that hot. Sure, it's hot, like mention it once or twice 'very warm'...but if they hadn't put up graphics I'd have thought they were describing 100 degree weather. Didn't think much of the awards ceremony, either...no boxes to stand on and not a trophy girl in site...just some matronly looking woman whose face we never see handing out bouquets of flowers.
    Cheers!
    Mike
    Oakland, CA
    2005 Jamis Exile
    2011 Trek/Gary Fisher HiFi

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by emjayel View Post
    I just watched the opening round from Australia. I've watched TDF coverage, but this was my first XC coverage. Thought they did a fairly good job except for going on and on about the heat. Sub 90 degrees is not all that hot. Sure, it's hot, like mention it once or twice 'very warm'...but if they hadn't put up graphics I'd have thought they were describing 100 degree weather. Didn't think much of the awards ceremony, either...no boxes to stand on and not a trophy girl in site...just some matronly looking woman whose face we never see handing out bouquets of flowers.
    Why does their need to be trophy girls? Not sure how that makes anything better? (BTW, that's jus the flower ceremony, they do the real podium later and it's not part of the broadcast)

  44. #44
    GPzMike
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    Well, okay, yer right...there doesn't have to be a trophy girl...I guess what I meant was that, overall, the ceremony seemed poorly done. I was just going on other sporting/racing venue ceremonies. TDF, F1, motogp, etc, etc.
    Cheers!
    Mike
    Oakland, CA
    2005 Jamis Exile
    2011 Trek/Gary Fisher HiFi

  45. #45
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    MTB awards have always been downplayed. I think it goes back to the vneues that they are often at. Short of sea otter or at a ski area there is not much going on and the audience wants to get out of there. In terms the trophy girls why not...other sports do it.
    BTW anyone catch the tour coverage on euro sport? I hear they have Greg Lemond on there and hear that he's way better than bob roll and even phil!

  46. #46
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    Just watched him on Eurosport. The guy is a legend. Will never forget watching the last Stage versus Fignion almost 30 years ago. I was 13 then and it hooked me up with cycling.

  47. #47
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    Yep^ same here.

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