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  1. #1
    mnoutain bkie rdier
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    Will endurance race interfere with my base miles?

    I am really trying to commit to a solid base this season.

    I have an opportunity to race a 6 or 12 hr. solo endurance race in Nov.

    If I was to race, I would want to do well (push hard). I would be in higher hr zone quite a bit.

    How would this affect my base training? Would it act as a set back and negate what I have been doing base-wise so far?

    Thanks

  2. #2
    is turning a big gear
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    I think you should be able to work it in if you just carefully recover afterwards.
    Get it unlocked.

  3. #3
    g3h6o3
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    I find endurance races to be the best base training there is. You can't go as strong as in XC races for 6-8-12 hours, it qualifies as a long steady ride in my book. It doesn't matter if you have peaks of higher HR, you want to look at the average when you evaluate the training stress and your HR will be in zone 2 without a doubt.

    2 years ago, I did a compete season of only endurance races and this allowed me to increase my volume massively in the past season. I say do it and have fun.
    Check out my SportTracks plugins for some training aid software.

  4. #4
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    Yup, there should be no ill-effect, Do the race, ride your best, have fun, recover as needed, and continue with your base training.

    I think the only detriment would be that you wouldn't be riding your best, since you're in base training. By design, you're best riding should be after builds and peaks.
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  5. #5
    LMN
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    Don't kid yourself, the racing will effect your base training. A 12hr race is very hard on you and will take a fair while to recover from.

    The trick will be to plan your recovery and training correctly. If you do it right you will not notice the race in the long run, if you blow it the race will have a serious effect on your training.

    My approach would to be log some good base miles in preparation for the race and then take a couple of weeks of light training/down time afterward and then restart regular training after Christmas.
    "The best pace is suicide pace, and today is a good day to die." Steve Prefontaine

  6. #6
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    In a similar vein what about 4hr races? I have two series local to me. Seven races over sixteen weeks. I tend to ride them single speed to help my force and speed skills. But I mainly do them to help with the drudgery of winter.

    Slightly sub-optimal or a recipe for disaster?

  7. #7
    LMN
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    Quote Originally Posted by Betamaxstan View Post
    In a similar vein what about 4hr races? I have two series local to me. Seven races over sixteen weeks. I tend to ride them single speed to help my force and speed skills. But I mainly do them to help with the drudgery of winter.

    Slightly sub-optimal or a recipe for disaster?
    Depends if you race them or ride them. If you treat them as a good hard ride and ride at an aerobic pace they wouldn't be that bad, as long as you give sufficient recovery. If you "raced" each one you would probably end up a hole so deep that it would take a summer off to get out of it.
    "The best pace is suicide pace, and today is a good day to die." Steve Prefontaine

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    I was afraid that would be the case. I need to think carefully about whether I have the self control to just ride them.

  9. #9
    mnoutain bkie rdier
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    What are the elite CXers doing then??

    I see quite a few of our (so. cal) top mtb XC'ers racing cross this season.

    How in the world is this not getting in the way of their base/prep for next mtb xc season!?

    I was interested in racing cross this season, but was not sure how to incorporate that into my prep for next XC season.

  10. #10
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    Seems like hitting winter base miles all week and then doing a 30-60 minute cross race on the weekend would be perfect training?

  11. #11
    mnoutain bkie rdier
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    Quote Originally Posted by TunicaTrails View Post
    Seems like hitting winter base miles all week and then doing a 30-60 minute cross race on the weekend would be perfect training?
    So, does this mean that the competitive CXers (that also do well mtb XC) simply do base miles and CX races during cross season to be competitve during cross season?

    How are they (people who only do base M-F) supposed to compete with the guys who modify their training so that they peak during cross season?

    Perhaps nobody tries to peak during cross season. Should we all just assume that each cross racer either peaked for their road or mtb season that just ended??

    Uh ohh... I still need my last question answered Crap.

  12. #12
    Always pushing harder!!!
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    this is getting interesting...

  13. #13
    LMN
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    The elite MTBer haven't started their base training yet. They will take some time off after cross racing and start their base work in January. Those who do long cross season often are a bit behind in the spring but by mid-summer catch up (Katie Compton and Katerina Nash for example).

    At the elite level there are very few riders in North America who focus on cross. Most are usually racing cross on the remains of their road or mtb fitness. There are some obvious exceptions but not many.

    However, there is lots of amateurs racers (myself for example) who focus their racing on cross. I do nothing but base work all spring and summer and then peak for cross. I am still fast on the mountain bike and race well, but the my top form is reserved for cross season.

    Really though, it is too early to be doing base work. Even Catharine who has to be ready for a world cup in March hasn't started her training for next season. It is still her off season where her training is a nice light 15hrs a week.
    "The best pace is suicide pace, and today is a good day to die." Steve Prefontaine

  14. #14
    mnoutain bkie rdier
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMN View Post
    The elite MTBer haven't started their base training yet. They will take some time off after cross racing and start their base work in January. Those who do long cross season often are a bit behind in the spring but by mid-summer catch up (Katie Compton and Katerina Nash for example).

    At the elite level there are very few riders in North America who focus on cross. Most are usually racing cross on the remains of their road or mtb fitness. There are some obvious exceptions but not many.

    However, there is lots of amateurs racers (myself for example) who focus their racing on cross. I do nothing but base work all spring and summer and then peak for cross. I am still fast on the mountain bike and race well, but the my top form is reserved for cross season.

    Really though, it is too early to be doing base work. Even Catharine who has to be ready for a world cup in March hasn't started her training for next season. It is still her off season where her training is a nice light 15hrs a week.
    Thanks LMN. You da man Hey..how is her current "nice light 15hrs a week" gonna be diff than her "base" training?

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by rydbyk View Post
    So, does this mean that the competitive CXers (that also do well mtb XC) simply do base miles and CX races during cross season to be competitve during cross season?

    How are they (people who only do base M-F) supposed to compete with the guys who modify their training so that they peak during cross season?

    Perhaps nobody tries to peak during cross season. Should we all just assume that each cross racer either peaked for their road or mtb season that just ended??

    Uh ohh... I still need my last question answered Crap.
    I'm sure LMN will have a way better answer, but I think it depends. I'm not kidding myself that any weekend I do back to back CX races (especially at the UCI event level like Spooky Cross last weekend) doesn't affect my base training, but right now I'm still EARLY in base. As we all get closer to late Nov/Dec it'll be a different animal where those hours (for me probably 5-8/weekend at the most) really need to be at a steadier pace vs. easy warm up and super hard race effort.

    I am pretty sure that anyone at the very Elite level racing cross still does base on the weekends as well and if they'd be getting 4-5 hours on any given day, they'll still do it. I don't remotely claim to know her schedule or anything, but pretty sure that Coryn Rivera rode to Spooky Cross from her house last year, probably getting her 30-45 mins of easy spinning. Many of the Elite Women at Cross Vegas and this past weekend spent probably at least 30+ mins on trainers after the race. No idea on intensity, but they are getting in pedaling time.

    I think top cross racers (not necessarily mountain bikers doing both) definitely peak for the events. If you look at someone like Katie Compton, she took time off after World's and missed Cross Vegas in order to focus on a stronger late-cross season peak for World's. She also won't be at the early season races at Bonelli and Fontana, whereas typically women like Georgia will be there (and dominantly fast for base season).

    Cross racing typically is a super hard efforts on Sat/Sun, easy Mon/Tues, maybe a longer ride or longer intervals Wed/Thur, then easy into the weekend again. It's all about recovery, which is a lot different than base training Soo, pick your poison. Train through and maybe race a little more fatigued and not as sharp, or be on point for the races and start your season a little later.

    Though I really think here in So Cal it's pretty much year round racing. Cross season and the Southridge Winter series basically overlap, and the Pro XCT starts in Texas the first weekend in March 2012. Kenda Cup/Pro XCT all spring, (Nationals in summer,) Rim Nordic series, and then it's cross season again.

  16. #16
    LMN
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    Quote Originally Posted by rydbyk View Post
    Hey..how is her current "nice light 15hrs a week" gonna be diff than her "base" training?
    I could tell you but then I would have to ..........
    "The best pace is suicide pace, and today is a good day to die." Steve Prefontaine

  17. #17
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    i am guessing that part of the question here revolves around our (The Mann Show) participation in the Socal Cross series.

    first let me state that i have not really been "on plan" lately. i am not doing my base work yet. when i do i will have to stop racing. allison is only just now coming on plan and though base for next year is very important, she is trying to collect some decent results and confidence after losing much of the year to Black Death Foot. (she is only just now getting back up to speed and in order to really dedicate to winter training it is nice to have some races under her belt as reminders of why and what she is doing when acting like a monk and suffering endlessly)

    6/12hr racing is not a good base training exercise as LMN has posted (he is a VERY good coach).

    base training is steady riding at aerobic levels for extended periods. EXAMPLE from my training this past winter... DEAD FLAT road ride, 3.5hrs, 180-200 watts, 90-100 RPM.

    if you are thinking about racing a 6 or 12 hr in Kansas on dead flat ground you could probably pull out at the 4 hr mark and call that base training. Vail cannot be considered base training.

    in all honesty training/racing just like most things in life has trade-offs. if you really want to do the 6/12hr solo then go for it, but realize that you are going to have to take some time to recover properly afterwards and it might have some impact on your training/racing at some point down the road (burnout, too early of a peak, etc)

    one thing to remember is that if you are focusing on the Kenda Cup West, racing happens much earlier in the year than for most Elite athletes (World Cup etc). it is VERY VERY hard to be fast in February when our season starts, and maintain that through July for Nationals. it might look easy from the outside, but to be good almost year-round is not really possible and though i might seem fast i have had some issues this year with mental focus and dedication. i have raced far too much this year and i may pay for that next year...
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  18. #18
    mnoutain bkie rdier
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    thx mucho!

    thx for the valuable input guys

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by rydbyk View Post
    thx for the valuable input guys
    All that being said, if it was me, and I didn't have a coach or a training plan, I'd do the 12 solo keeping in mind that I'd want to do well and race it, but could also take a back seat and just have fun riding my bike for hours and hours with a bunch of cool people. It's early November and it is some solid trail time. Will it make the difference between a Cat 1 podium or not at Fontana? I don't think it would that early in the game, but I haven't done a 12 solo for the full 12 since Nov 2008.

    I never said I would do the right thing or the intelligent thing, but I'd probably do it. I love 12 hour racing (like I love CX and XC, and long rides in the mountains, or on the coast on the road, or pedaling in general).

  20. #20
    CB2
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    Quote Originally Posted by miss rides a lot View Post

    I never said I would do the right thing or the intelligent thing, but I'd probably do it. I love 12 hour racing (like I love CX and XC, and long rides in the mountains, or on the coast on the road, or pedaling in general).


    That's my take on things; I do what's fun!

  21. #21
    Always pushing harder!!!
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    I think we all love to pedal...or love to suffer...either way, both are a lot of fun when we do it on our bikes!!!

  22. #22
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    You will only be enhancing your base as you race in Zone 3-4 for that period of time.

    Enjoy it!
    Get me the knuckles of Frisco..

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crankout View Post
    You will only be enhancing your base as you race in Zone 3-4 for that period of time.

    Enjoy it!
    disagree. Z3-4 for a 12hr solo is not good base work. it also doesn't lend to consistency as it will take a week to recover (at least)
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  24. #24
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    Rydbyk, are you doing the 6 or the 12? Those are really 2 different animals.

    This past season I did two ~7 hour races. If I had to double the time, I'm sure I would of been hurting much, much worst afterwards.
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  25. #25
    mnoutain bkie rdier
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poncharelli View Post
    Rydbyk, are you doing the 6 or the 12? Those are really 2 different animals.

    This past season I did two ~7 hour races. If I had to double the time, I'm sure I would of been hurting much, much worst afterwards.
    Ponch..

    IMO, 6 hr means that I am riding harder/faster than 12 hr. I feel that this still presents a potential problem with regards to what I am hoping to accomplish this season.

    I do agree that a 12 hr is more taxing than a 6 hr though..

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