What software for power meter?
I am going to be obtaining a power meter (stages), what kind of software have you been using? likes, dislikes, cost
thanks in advance
I've only used Golden Cheetah it's FREE and gives me all the Information I need, at this point. I'm curious about other programs (specifically WKO+) but the price tag scares me away. The problem with Golden Cheetah is it doesn't use the same terms that you will find in a book like Dr. Coggans 'Training and Racing with a power meter', (which I highly recommend BTW) so there's a little bit of interpretation there. BTW, I can't imagine training without a PM now that I have one. Definitely money well spent.
Golden Cheetah is indeed the best value for money. I have used WKO+ and GC, and I have a slight preference for GC though I do find GC v3.0 to be a little over-complicated but this is solved through familiarisation. An excellent tool with no investment!
Good suggestions above. Another to consider is Sporttracks from Zone5. It's not quite free, but close, and worth the money. The base version may not have all the functionality for power analysis, but the add-on toolboxes make it very powerful ('training load', for example).
There is a Windows PC version and a new web version. I use the PC version primarily because it has more functionality and that's how I roll, but the web version can be handy for uploading and storing rides when travelling without a windows PC. The logfile synchronizes between the PC and web versions.
PowerAgent is free from the Saris website. That's what I use. I'm used to it and their terms are compatible with the Coggan nomenclature.
What WKO mainly gives you over other software is the load management (ATL, CTL, etc.). I believe sporttracks gives that to ya. golden cheetah has something similar.
Here are some links which show power-related functions of Sporttracks, to see if it does what you want.
Training Load (TSS, TRIMP, ATL, CTL time analysis)
SportTracks ? Plugin Catalog ? Training Load
Critical Power analysis, correlation charts, etc:
SportTracks ? Plugin Catalog ? Training Analysis
Trainer power tracks:
SportTracks ? Plugin Catalog ? Trainer Power Track
Custom calculations and analysis.. do what you will with power and other data. Skys the limit.
SportTracks ? Plugin Catalog ? Calculated Fields
There are other plugins for planning and scheduling, gps routing, etc. A scan of the plugin catalog reveals all.
I find sporttracks pretty intuitive, but then again I've been using it for several years. Some plug-ins are better than others in terms of ease of use. My only gripe with ST is it is only available in Windows -- unless you use the new 'mobi' web-based version. I've always been drawn to Golden Cheetah because it is truly open source and runs natively on Linux, but so far have been too lazy to really give GC a try since ST is working well.
What software for power meter?
All the different power meter software analysis options have significant flaws. It's a case of choosing the least worst option currently.
The problem with both Poweragent and Golden Cheetah 3.0 is that the graph options for looking at and working with your data aren't there. You can't change the scaling of individual traces on the graph (speed, power, altitude etc) so it winds up being harder to interpret what was going on than it should be. Golden Cheetah 3.0 in particular is lacking a lot of documentation too. If there was a detailed user manual it would help a lot.
I use WKO+ 3.0 at the moment for a few reasons, although it hasn't been updated for years and some parts don't work with Windows 8. The main strengths of WKO+ 3.0 are:
- It allows you to change the individual scales, zoom selections and work with laps quickly and easily in the graph view.
- The search and filtering options allow you to easily find past rides of interest.
- It allows you to set and keep historic power zones. (say you do an FTP test in July whilst you're on top form and you enter a new higher FTP figure into the software, recalculating your power zones, the rides done before the test stay at the lower FTP power level, so that your TSS, IF, reports and PMC (Performance Manager Chart) remain consistent throughout. This is important for tracking progress as if your new higher FTP figure was applied to historic rides it would skew the figures, making what may have been hard rides riding at your lower FTP appear as gentle rides if your new higher FTP figure were to replace the lower FTP figure that you were using at the time.)
WKO 4 is supposed to be released 10 December 2013. Unless there's a glaring issue with it I'll be switching to that once it's available.
I've used both Sporttracks and Golden Cheetah and much prefer Golden Cheetah. I actually don't even use Sporttracks anymore. I just never found the UI to be all that good and GC is designed directly for the job of power analysis. The only thing I used Sporttracks for was tracking runs and swims, but luckily I've given up on those 2 silly sports.
GC also allows you to track historic power zones. In options, go to Athlete, Power and you can enter an FTP and a date. It uses that for the correct date range.
WKO+ 4.0 is due out in approx 2 weeks. Based on coggans webinars & not too much has been released, but the new power profile curve is a tremendous change over the previous & is the most accurate on the market. Also will have a whole slew of new stuff that the others will likely be looking to scramble & copy
What software for power meter?
So long as you keep the original recorded data .fit files on your computer (assuming you're going to be using a Garmin Edge head unit) then you can try out most of the different software packages and websites by importing the .fit files into them whenever you wish. You can try out all the different options side by side to begin with until you decide which works best for you.
When the Garmin Edge is connected to a computer you can browse to the Activities folder on the Garmin Edge and manually copy - paste the .fit files from the Garmin into a folder on your hard drive for safe keeping. Having too many saved .fit files on the Garmin Edge slows it down and they take up storage space so it's best to clear them out periodically. I tend to delete them about once a month.
I also use PowerAgent. After I purchased the CycleOps spin bike from them, I decided that I might as well use the software too. Works just fine for me.
Originally Posted by Poncharelli
Lynskey Ti Pro29 SL singlespeed
KHS Team 29
S-Works Roubaix SL3 Dura Ace
KHS CX 550 cyclocross
I am curious about the WKO+ 4.0 as they have mentioned there will be a native Mac version (release date untold for that). I tried to watch a bit of one or two segments of the "webinar" on 4.0 but nodded off rather quickly.
Originally Posted by sprocketjockey9
Will all devices that currently work with earlier versions of WKO still work, or will there be all kinds of patches and updates needed? I have no power meter for my outdoor bikes, and the ones that I do have are not able to upload. Why? My consoles on the basement LeMond and LifeCycle exercise bikes do measure power, cadence, heart rate, speed, distance, etc...but they are so old there is no USB port to export the data. Both companies inform me that it is not possible to upgrade the old consoles to new ones - that I must get new bikes.
I am stuck with simply reading the data face to console at the end of each workout which doesn't do me much good for tracking. So I am looking to "upgrade" but live in an all Mac household (and all Mac work space). I can get a good price on the newer LeMond with the USB port to download workouts at the moment and they would take a trade in on my old machine, so I am tempted for that venue I use for several months each year (basement off season training). But it uses a product called WKO Lite. Not sure how and if that will jive with the new WKO 4 coming out or if it will need to be updated as well. I suppose I should contact LeMond about that... .
I also am looking for a solution that I can use on mulitiple bikes for riding (road and my mountain bikes). If the Garmin pedals ever come out in a SPD format - I think I would be set for portability. I've looked at the iBike Newton, but it doesn't sound very mountain bike friendly. The Stages looks good as well, but again - not portable between road and mountain bike so would have to buy more than one which adds to the investment. Wheel swaps with different rear wheel spacing is out - so I kind of remain "stuck" in my research of a solution. And the software sort of has me "stuck" at the moment as well with what or what not to get.
So - if anyone answering this post currently was all Mac, wanted portability for road bike and mountain bike(s) - what would your solution be to get into a power measuring device and software?
What software for power meter?
Looking at the manual the Lemond G-Force UT exercise bike exports its data onto the USB memory stick as an Excel .csv file.
Originally Posted by BruceBrown
There shouldn't be a problem importing that .csv file into different training software. It's not as though LeMond are using a proprietary file format that would only work with their own software. One Mac solution would be to upload the file into a web based software eg: Training Peaks web version. So long as you keep the original .csv files they can be imported into multiple programs as needed, in the same way as .fit files from Garmin head units.
There's a Mac compatible version of the Training Peaks Device Agent so you could upload the LeMond .csv files straight into that:
The WKO Lite software is probably just a cut down WKO+ 3 (no Mac version) so it wouldn't be much use to you in itself. When the next version of WKO+ comes out they have previously offered an upgrade, so that owners of the previous version have the opportunity to purchase the new software version at a cheaper price than full retail. If WKO Lite is included in that upgrade path it might get you a cheaper copy of the WKO+ 4 Mac version perhaps.
WKO+ 4 is delayed so it isn't clear when it will actually be released now. They missed their original release date.
Thanks, WR304! I think I'm going to wheel and deal for the LeMond trainer as an "upgrade" for me in the basement training department.
What software for power meter?
Some possible software for using with a Mac is a program called Rubitrack. It comes in an IOS version too which allows you to import various file formats (including .csv) by uploading to Dropbox and then transferring them into the IOS app.
There isn't a PC version so I haven't tried it but it might be worth a look.
Sounds good. Or at least it sounds like there is more than one option available.
Honestly, Strava Premium has some pretty cool analysis tools.
I'm using TrainingPeaks premium online with my coach. I can't say I understand everything about it yet but it definitely has the communications infrastructure that's needed to support that working relationship. I wonder if WKO+ has more or less the same features?
If you've got rubiTrack for IOS don't install today's 1.1.1 update. It stops the program working (as I've just discovered. )
There's a forum post saying that there will be a fix for it soon though:
The rubiTrack Forum ? View topic - DO NOT UPDATE TO VERSION 1.1.1
What software for power meter?
The new Garmin Connect app syncs with the 510 and 810 via Bluetooth much more quickly. I pass the file over to Trainingpeaks and Strava with Tapirrik.com
They're supposed to be adding new things to the Garmin Connect website, including segments like in Strava apparently.
DCRainmaker did an article a while ago about some of the different options for getting your data from Garmin Connect into other websites:
3 Ways to Automatically Copy Your Garmin Training Data to Other Fitness Sites | DC Rainmaker
Another article that he wrote on the same subject is this one about the purchase of MapMyFitness too.
What the acquisition of MapMyFitness by Under Armour really means for the industry | DC Rainmaker
What software for power meter?
What software for power meter?
Training Peaks added a new blog post about their much delayed WKO+ 4 software.
At this rate it might come out in 2015.
I'd just like to thank WR304. I always enjoy the info you so graciously impart to all of us about training with power. You have an excellent knowledge. I've learned a lot from you and just wanted to say thank you!
Tsk tsk. They've been going with a feature-incomplete Beta of Trainingpeaks Online for a long time now as well. I use it for 90% of my work because in an HTML5 browser it's much faster with a better interface than the old Flash/Flex interface, but not everything works. For instance, there is no private messaging feature in Beta. The iPhone app is based on the beta HTML5 interface too. As a paying customer, I'd like to say just get it done.
Originally Posted by WR304
What software for power meter?
When it comes to power meter data presenting it in a format that you can make sense of and understand is where a lot of the benefit lies. All the current website options have problems with that.
I'm not a fan of the online Training Peaks website. Unless you subscribe it's all locked down with "premium feature" pop ups appearing every time you click anywhere. Even if you subscribe you're still missing the feature that makes WKO+ 3.0 worth having - the ability to change the Y axis scale for individual traces on the graph.
The pricing sucks too as they're clearly trying to push you into an annual subscription:
Training Peaks website subscription as at 29 June 2014
$19.95 USD for one month ($239.40 USD per year)
$49.00 USD for three months ($196 USD per year)
$79.00 USD for six months ($158 USD per year)
$119.00 USD for 12 months
Compare that to Strava, where you can use at least most of the features for free (they sell your data to third parties so there are downsides) and the subscription is much cheaper:
Strava website subscription as at 29 June 2014
$6.00 USD for one month ($72 USD per year)
$59.00 USD for 12 months
Garmin Connect is free but hardly amazing.
Trainingpeaks Online has its place in the market because of its ability to communicate and plan with a coach. But the Beta is just stuck; it's like they have run out of money with their developers or something. In general if you're training yourself, the desktop version makes more sense.
Should You Subscribe to TrainingPeaks Premium or Buy*WKO+? - Posts - TrainingPeaks Blog
I think it's clear (see in the comments below) that they do have limited development resources. With more work into the HTML5 Beta I'm certain that all the detail in the desktop version could be added to the Online version. Then both markets would get the best value and they'd be able to make their deadlines too
[QUOTE=chomxxo;11295584]Trainingpeaks Online has its place in the market because of its ability to communicate and plan with a coach. But the Beta is just stuck; it's like they have run out of money with their developers or something. /QUOTE]
The new BETA version is even more clunky than the old version, I have been using Golden Cheetah it has some good tools but not as polished as WKO+
Cul is a regretted trademark of the CulBaire Co'op Pty Ltd, as are his random ramblings and associated ********.
Strava has got some talented developers, I'll give them that, and the interface is extremely clean. But their for-pay offering's tools are still just prosumer.
I find the Trainingpeaks Online Beta to be significantly more usable and faster than the original. Possibly I'm influenced by being able to see through the interface to the architecture, which is Steve Jobs-approved HTML5 instead of Adobe Flash. Except for renaming laps, it's considerably faster. Its user cues like color coding and tabs scale better. As an IT project manager I'd strongly advise Trainingpeaks to focus their development resources singularly on the beta, as it also runs the iPhone app and could potentially be the Mac-compatible solution, as well as having the modern interface toolkit to assume every bit of functionality of WKO+ while continuing the collaborative capabilities of the online version. But I digress, back to bike riding
What software for power meter?
One of my friend's bought himself a Garmin Edge 500 with heart rate last week. He knows about bikes and liked the idea of being able to record rides but is retired and not very technical when it comes to computers and electronic gadgets.
The simpler the better basically. Anything too complex and he wouldn't use it.
I set the Garmin Edge 500 up so that the options were configured in advance, the sensors were paired, the display was set and it was all good to go with a minimum of steps required:
1. Press the Power button to turn it on, let the Garmin lock onto satellites.
2. Press Start to begin recording and do the ride.
3. Press Start again to stop the timer at the end.
4. Hold down Reset until the 3-2-1 countdown disappears and that's it, ride saved.
My detailed Garmin Edge 500 settings and screen layouts are here:
Power2Max MTB Power Meter
The difficulty was deciding what to do with the information. He refused to upload to a website such as Strava or Garmin Connect, due to privacy concerns. I then had a think about the PC based options but there really isn't anything that's super easy and intuitive to use.
As he has an iPad I settled on rubiTrack for IOS. Using the (configured in advance) Dropbox sync this only takes a couple of extra actions:
5. Connect the Garmin Edge 500 to a computer by USB.
6. Go to My Computer - Double left click on the Garmin icon - Browse to the Garmin - Activities folder.
7. Right click on the .fit file with today's date and select Copy.
8. Open the Dropbox folder - Browse to the Apps - rubiTrack folder within it.
9. Right click within the folder and select Paste to add the .fit file.
10. With the iPad's wifi turned on open the rubiTrack app (shaped like a foot).
11. Tap on the Sync icon at the bottom (2nd from right).
12. Tap on the Dropbox icon on the sync page - a circle will go round and the file will be imported.
13. Tap on the Calendar icon (2nd from left) and the ride should have appeared.
14. Tap on the red ride summary to view the details for that day.
So far that method has been working ok. Once the ride is in rubiTrack for IOS he's been happily swiping between screens and finding the way that the information is displayed clear. He particularly likes the way that you can colour drop the route on the map with traces such as speed, heart rate etc to see at a glance what was happening at a particular point, along with holding a finger down on the route to view selections.
That colour drop on the map and graphs is what seems to be the most successful feature. It makes changes stand out more. The graph below is of heart rate and elevation during a one hour out and back ride. With the colour drop to identify different zones it shows how it was a gentle start with a low heart rate to begin with on the way out. The intensity rises on the way back as the route gradually goes uphill.
rubiTrack for IOS Import Settings:
What software for power meter?
A large part of making the software work for you is presentation, getting the file to a point where trends and notable features become identifiable. In WKO+ 3.0 hiding some traces tidies the graph up. I usually have just power, speed and altitude displayed with Time as the X Axis. You can add all sorts of lines by double left clicking on the scale and adding the ones you want. In the graph below I've put a single line for average power (227 watts).
The amount of smoothing to use depends upon what you're interested in. For a big picture overview 1 minute smoothing, or more, takes out a lot of the jumpiness. If you wanted to look at how you paced yourself over the entire ride this shows how close you were and whether there are any anomalies. The graph below shows the overview of a hard ride with three climbs. If you look at the smoothed 1 minute power trace relative to the average power dotted line you can see how my power was higher riding up the hills, dropped below average on the downhills and was consistent on the flatter sections.
When riding it's worth putting some manual lap markers in, by pressing the Lap button on your Garmin head unit. This makes it easier to identify where you were at a particular point. It also makes it easier to compare how you're riding between months and years. The table below shows the lap splits for the same ride. Where I rode it in July 2012 and then the same splits on the same route in 5 July 2014.
Because the lap markers are in exactly the same place it's possible to see how they compare. Times aren't always directly comparable, because of varying wind directions and weather, but with a power trace you can also see the power output which gives additional insight. In July 2012 the main thing to look at is the power output on the flatter sections between climbs. These were well down on the overall average. In July 2014 the flatter sections were closer to the overall average.
In terms of pacing for July 2014 I had a game plan of aiming for a negative split - starting off without going too overboard and saving energy for the final section. By dividing the ride into smaller sections using laps you can see how this worked out. The final climb wasn't much quicker, as I tried to hold something back, but then the final section (highlighted in yellow) was where I made up a big chunk of time at a much higher average power than July 2012.
Along with an overview you can also look closer at individual sections of a ride. How you did descending, the surges you put in on a climb, whether you kept going over the top or not etc. For these sort of items you don't want much smoothing on the graph. Either no smoothing or 5 second smoothing is usually best. The more smoothing you have the less detail there is. The graph below shows the fastest descent, third climb and then the beginning of the final descent home from 5 July 2014. This has 5 second smoothing applied.
If you look at the descent this is quite steep and fast. It was pouring with rain so I took no risks. There's no power trace indicating that I was freewheeling for most of the descent. An upwards slope on the speed trace means that you're accelerating and gaining speed. On descents a downwards slope on the speed trace means that you're braking. You can count individual seconds of the downslope to see how long you were on the brakes before a corner. The point at the bottom of the downwards slope shows your speed at the apex of the corner. I've highlighted the two bends on the graph with green squares.
After the descent I began the third climb. This is a mixture of short rises and then flatter sections. You can see the big spikes in power above the dotted average line on the shorter rises. This is where you can get an idea of pacing. Whether you're putting in overly high efforts on the rises or maybe letting the effort drop too much on the flatter sections. For a time trial effort like this, where I was aiming to be fast over the entire ride, not just one climb, I was trying not to go too far into the red on the short rises. If you start putting in super high spikes of power you'll frequently find that it takes time to recover afterwards. By using the power meter display to avoid overly high spikes you can maintain the pace.
After the climb proper finishes is a section that's worth looking at in a power file. Did you keep the pressure on or sit up? At the top of this climb I was able to keep pushing on. There are two short pauses where I stopped pedalling but that's all.
The power distribution for the ride will show the amount of time spent at 0-20 watts. It includes descending but even so I only spent 5% of the time freewheeling (stationary time is excluded). That's good. A typical steady road ride for me is more like 10% freewheeling. If you're seeing high amounts of 0-20 watts freewheeling in a file dig a bit deeper to understand why.
Freewheeling and zero power is something to keep an eye on. If you're freewheeling a lot you're potentially losing time as you could be pedalling. Large amounts of freewheeling on the flat on solo road rides, especially near the end and closely spaced on the graph, can often be a sign of fatigue or saddle soreness. (Group rides and offroad rides will tend to see more freewheeling at zero watts than solo road rides).
I agree with TwoWheelMa
I agree with TwoWheelMa
Originally Posted by TwoWheelMan
mmmm ... Sporttracks. In order to use Cloudsync (e.g. store your log file online) you have to purchase an additional license (~ $ 60 / a). Sporttracks PC costs a one time fee. However, what really pi$$ed me off was that all their bla bla on their webpage made me believe that online storage is a feature of Sporttracks PC (or its license). Who knows, maybe they have made it clearer on their webpage now.
Furthermore, all their development efforts seem to go into the *.mobi version. Not my cup of tea.
I use TrainingPeaks Premium. I started using it when I had a coach, but continue to use it. I find the Performance Management Chart to be one of the most beneficial tools I've ever used for training. With that said, I'm tired of paying the money. I did find a couple excel spreadsheets that track your PMC so I'll play with those.
I do have WKO+ as well so I may just switch to that. There was a lot of discussion on WKO 4 over at Slowtwitch, which resulted with an updated blog post from TP. If Slowtwitch members are upset, manufacturers listen.
I haven't tried GC yet, but will also experiment with that. I use to use SportTracks exclusively but their UI really sucks compared to TP.
"You have a Ph.d in Economics yet you're such an idiot sometimes." - My ex-wife.
Have you tried Race Day? It has a really good algorithm for tracking and then predicting performance over time, which is useful if you want to try to plan your build and taper leading up to an event.
Hey, in case someone searches for a mobile analysis software, there is a new one for iPhone and iPad: Trainalyse - Mobile Training Analysis for iPhone and iPad
It supports power in plot as well as has a view on the amount of time/distance spend in different power zones. Zones are fully configurable. You might give it a try, there is a free lite version.
as you might have already guessed, I am affiliated with Trainalyse.
On the I pad, you cannot display the graph without the upper section. On the iPhone you can, in case you use the horizontal orientation.
Tapping on the graph and getting the value did not make it into the first release version. But its definitely a good suggestion.
As you already found out, you can set the plot range as you like via the zone settings in Trainalyse. To let the user pick the plot range was done on purpose. Auto scaling---used in almost any other app / web portal---is very problematic in case of spikes. And more important, auto scaling is very bad for comparability between tracks. Just toggle between two tracks via the quick access bar on the left, and you will see how nice it is that the scaling remains as you switch tracks. You can compare based on the position of the plot-line and do not need to check the scale again for each track. The advantage really pays of the more you use the app and "know" the scaling and typical plot-line position for a certain measurement.
Regarding zone configuration: Your screenshot shows that you heavily modified the default zones :-) Be aware that the zones you configure are used in the "zone view" to provide you a kind of "custom histogram": Time or distance spent in a certain zone. It's therefore advantageous to use multiple zones for each measurement (you reconfigured speed/pace to one zone in contrast). The configured zone colors are also used to color the segments in the segments view, as well as in the map view. Zones with distinct colors are therefore advantageous.
Im am a litte bit confused about your right/left balance. All test recordings used during development had readings being around 50% (both legs being of almost same strength), and almost always within +/- 20% around 50%. Your track is 99% within >70%. Do other apps show the same? If not, there might be an import issue for this particular track. In case its an import issue, I would be glad to examine the problem.
What software for power meter?
A lot of the features are down to the ways that different people look at ride files I think.
If you look at Post #35 of this thread it shows how I normally look at a ride file in WKO+ 3.0 on a PC. The functionality and method is what I would use on iPad too.
- being able to view the graph fullscreen
- being able to change the level of smoothing (essential)
- being able to change the Y axis scales
- being able to read off individual values at particular points on a graph
- being able to zoom in the graph to look at key sections of the ride
- being able to quick select sections of graph
- being able to view manual laps added whilst riding
What software for power meter?
Of those being able to zoom in the graph and change the level of smoothing applied to the graph are essential features. Smoothing makes such a huge difference to the meaning of what you see on screen that it needs to be adjustable.
With the custom zones in my screenshot the reason for removing most of the zone sliders, leaving just the minimum and maximum sliders, was to make it easier to adjust the range on the graph. If you have lots of zones added it means every intermediate slider has to be moved individually, which takes more time. By removing them you set the min and max values with just two actions.
Ideally Altitude should have a manual adjustment available also, rather than being an auto setting.
When it comes to Left - Right Power Balance my left leg is paralysed from the knee down. In my Power2Max power meter files I normally have a roughly 85% Right leg / 15% Left leg power balance. It makes a good test for power meter software because it's asymmetric and so far from 50/50 balance that it shows up any issues.
Power2Max MTB Power Meter
As I've got a Strava Premium subscription at the moment here is a look at how power data in Strava compares with WKO+ 3.0. Without a subscription you can see average power in Strava but not your power zones, power curve and PMC (Performance Management Chart).
The first thing in Strava is to make sure your weight and FTP figures are entered to match with any other software you use. Settings - My Profile for weight and Settings - My Performance for FTP. I have my weight entered as 146lb and my FTP entered as 240 watts (more on this later).
When you see a ride with "Suffer Score" in red letters this score is based on heart rate. Suffer Score is "inspired by" TRIMP scores. It's purely on heart rate.
The power training sections of Strava look to be "inspired by" the Coggan power zones and use the same metrics with different names. The power training zones are the same also.
Here is a summary from a ride that I did on 22 March 2015. I've put the summaries from Strava and WKO+ 3.0 alongside one another. These are both based on exactly the same Garmin .fit file.
Total Work (kj) = Work (kj)
Strava Weighted Average Power = NP (Normalized Power)
Strava Training Load = TSS (Training Stress Score)
Strava Intensity = IF (Intensity Factor) in brackets next to TSS in WKO+ 3.0
Whenever you import a ride file into a program or website there are differences between how they interpret that file. Here you can see that the power summaries aren't exact. They're close but Weighted Avg Power and Training Load in Strava for this ride doesn't quite equal Normalized Power and TSS for the same ride in WKO+ 3.0. For all my rides Normalized Power is consistently around 6 watts higher in WKO+ 3.0. TSS in WKO+ 3.0 is consistently higher by a few points also. This is true for a ride with no stationary time at all as well as ones where I was stopping.
The reason that there are differences between Normalized Power and Strava Weighted Average Power is because Strava Weighted Average Power is actually xPower.
This isn't down to timing differences or mismatched settings. It's because they are using different metrics. The Garmin uses Normalized Power, which is a 30-second rolling average. Strava uses xPower, which is an exponentially weighted moving average with a time constant of 25 seconds.
xPower in Golden Cheetah - Training advice - Timetrialling Forum
The two metrics give similar results but won't match exactly. It's close enough that they are only a few points different. The Strava Fitness and Freshness graph (Performance Management Chart) still reads about the same as a Performance Management Chart based on Normalized Power (eg: Training Peaks, WKO+ 3.0, WKO 4).
Strava Graph Analysis
There aren't any new features added for this in Strava premium. You still only get the small line of graph for power. It can be zoomed in but that's all so you easily miss trends or important features as a result. My ride on 22 March 2015 is a nice example of this. Here's the Strava graph view of my power output. You can't really see what's going on as the graph is tiny.
Here's the same ride in WKO+ 3.0, with 5 minute smoothing on so that you can see the overall pattern of the ride and how it wasn't simply a ride at one pace.
The story behind this is that I had intended to do one of the Sunday group rides but I was late. After a steady endurance pace there I spent the next two hours chasing (they averaged 18.5 mph and I averaged 17mph for the two hours so I didn't catch them oddly enough) followed by another couple of hours at endurance pace afterwards. If you only saw the Strava power graph you wouldn't necessarily spot that.
Along with summaries Strava Premium shows your time in Zone.
You can't manually adjust these zones in Strava as they're calculated automatically. The zones are very close to the Coggan Power Zones calculated automatically in WKO+ 3.0 but again they're not identical. Over longer rides in particular you'll find that there can be as much as one to two minutes difference for time in zone. This isn't a big issue but continues the theme of the power numbers being slightly different.
Active Recovery 1-132 watts (Strava), 0-133 watts (WKO+ 3.0)
Endurance 133 - 180 watts (Strava), 134-181 watts (WKO+ 3.0)
Tempo 181 - 216 watts (Strava), 182-217 watts (WKO+ 3.0)
Threshold 217 - 252 watts (Strava), 218-253 watts (WKO+ 3.0)
VO2Max 253 - 288 watts (Strava), 254-289 watts (WKO+ 3.0)
Anaerobic 289 - 360 watts (Strava), 290+ watts (WKO+ 3.0)
Neuromuscular 360+ watts (Strava)
Best Power Curve
For each ride on Strava you get a power curve that allows you to read off the best power or best W/KG for a particular duration. Under Training - Power Curve you also get a Best Efforts Power Curve for a chosen time period. This is what is pictured here:
In the Strava training section there is an "Estimated FTP". This is based on the Monod critical power model:
The "Estimated FTP" value on the Power Curve page is an experimental feature. It is based solely on the Power Curve you have selected. The formula is based on the Monod critical power model which tends to overestimate FTP.
Hope that helps!" Elle Anderson - Strava
Where the rest of the Strava power information is close I wanted to comment on this Strava Estimated FTP. I'm using an FTP figure of 240 watts in WKO+ 3.0. Although I haven't done an hour at 240 watts so far this year that's not to say I can't, just that I haven't. In 2015 so far I've been mostly concentrating on longer rides.
I have done a few straight up 1 hour time trial efforts however, including an hour at 225 watts in late January 2015. It was a surprise to me to see my estimated FTP in Strava on this curve for 2015 showing as 217 watts. That's way out and lower than what I've actually done. The power bests themselves seem ok but I'd treat the estimated FTP figure in Strava with suspicion.
Strava Fitness and Freshness
In WKO+ 3.0 you have a PMC (Performance Management Chart) for tracking training load and fatigue. Strava has a very similar chart under Training - Fitness and Freshness. The same principles apply to both.
The main thing to remember with this is that if you have differences in the calculation of Strava Training Load = TSS (Training Stress Score) for individual rides this will feed into this chart. There's also an option to include rides using just heart rate. I haven't got any rides with heart rate. Using just power this is quite a close approximation, give or take a point or two, which doesn't really matter as this chart is a big picture overview. At 03 April 2015 the two charts are quite close for me (There are some 2015 rides that I haven't uploaded into Strava which is why Strava Fitness is so much lower than CTL).
Strava Fitness 101= 116.9 CTL (Cumulative Training Load)
Strava Fatigue 96 = 99 ATL (Acute Training Load)
Strava Form 5 = 4.2 TSB (Training Stress Balance)
Strava Effort Comparison
One of my favourite parts is being able to compare power outputs at particular points. The graph shows your time advantage or disadvantage over a segment. This picture shows five attempts at the same climb. From the drop down menu you can decide whether to compare speed, power or heart rate. Here I have power displayed.
What this shows is that for the first part of the climb I was quite close between all five attempts. The big difference is that once the gradient begins to ease around the 0.5mile mark time gaps start opening up. You can then use the cursor to read off how the power output compared at that point. On my best time (purple) I was gaining time and also putting out the highest power output. On the slowest time on this comparison (dark blue) I was losing time but also riding a steady pace with a much lower power output.
In order to do a best time up this climb it's the second half of the climb where I'd need to hit it hard as possible because that's where the most time could be made up. Easier said than done.
Last edited by WR304; 09-23-2015 at 02:35 PM.
I came to basically the same conclusion that the only useful feature beyond WKO or Golden Cheetah of Strava Premium is the Effort Comparison. And you actually can compare efforts in GC, but not as neatly as Strava. I don't know if it's worth $60 a year.
The Strava comparison picture above shows just my efforts. What I really wanted the Strava comparison for was to compare against other people's rides. The premium subscription makes it much easier to filter and add in different rides to the comparison. This aspect of the premium version (adding the particular rides I wanted to view straight away) wasalmost worth the money in itself for the time saved. Trying to add and remove rides in the free version wasn't as straightforward.
That extra ease of use, along with having the power curve on rides, were the two Strava premium features I wanted. The other things were incidental as I use WKO+ 3.0 for my main training diary.
GPS tracks don't always stay exactly on course, especially when you're riding under tree cover. On today's ride for example my GPS track on a wooded climb was way off. The problem with the GPS track not following the route is that you'll miss any Strava segments that are there. I'm not usually that bothered but today I'd ridden as hard as I could up this climb on the club ride and wanted to see it in Strava.
Fortunately there's a handy website tool for repairing the GPS track so that segments are recovered:
You first make the broken ride public on Strava, copy the URL of the ride into the raceshape webpage and then using the blue sliders select just the part of ride where the GPS track has gone wrong.
Once you have the correct bit selected and repaired download the .tcx file that is created and manually upload this .tcx file back into Strava from your computer. It seemed to work quite well, adjusting the route for the Strava segment and keeping the rest of the ride information, including the power data, intact.
I improved 2 seconds on my personal best for this climb compared to my best time from 2014 so that was good.
I was amazed to get an email from Training Peaks today. It seems that WKO 4 is finally released and available to buy now!
$179 USD as a new install and $129 USD as an upgrade from WKO+ 3.0
The only version listed is for Mac but if they've got to this stage the PC version can't be that far away.
A little off topic but I need to talk to fellow two-wheeled number crunchers. I splurged on some solid tires for training/commuting (Tannus Aither 1.1s in 28 and 23mm). I have a 50 mile commute and glass defeated even the toughest pneumatic tires eventually, including the Schwalbe Marathon Plus.
On a 10 mile test ride this morning, the watts per mph were pretty high. The ride is actually really nice on the new RLT 9 steel. It would be interesting to compare the watts per mph from a 28mm Aither 1.1 to say, a 40mm Nanoraptor. I'd assumed staying with Roubaix-style tires would be fastest for me since it's mostly road, but when it comes down to the numbers, if a fat tire rolls faster than a solid, it'd be worth it to me.
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