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  1. #1
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    What software for power meter?

    I am going to be obtaining a power meter (stages), what kind of software have you been using? likes, dislikes, cost
    thanks in advance

  2. #2
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    I've only used Golden Cheetah it's FREE and gives me all the Information I need, at this point. I'm curious about other programs (specifically WKO+) but the price tag scares me away. The problem with Golden Cheetah is it doesn't use the same terms that you will find in a book like Dr. Coggans 'Training and Racing with a power meter', (which I highly recommend BTW) so there's a little bit of interpretation there. BTW, I can't imagine training without a PM now that I have one. Definitely money well spent.

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    Golden Cheetah is indeed the best value for money. I have used WKO+ and GC, and I have a slight preference for GC though I do find GC v3.0 to be a little over-complicated but this is solved through familiarisation. An excellent tool with no investment!

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    Good suggestions above. Another to consider is Sporttracks from Zone5. It's not quite free, but close, and worth the money. The base version may not have all the functionality for power analysis, but the add-on toolboxes make it very powerful ('training load', for example).

    There is a Windows PC version and a new web version. I use the PC version primarily because it has more functionality and that's how I roll, but the web version can be handy for uploading and storing rides when travelling without a windows PC. The logfile synchronizes between the PC and web versions.

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    PowerAgent is free from the Saris website. That's what I use. I'm used to it and their terms are compatible with the Coggan nomenclature.

    What WKO mainly gives you over other software is the load management (ATL, CTL, etc.). I believe sporttracks gives that to ya. golden cheetah has something similar.
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    Here are some links which show power-related functions of Sporttracks, to see if it does what you want.

    Training Load (TSS, TRIMP, ATL, CTL time analysis)
    SportTracks ? Plugin Catalog ? Training Load

    Critical Power analysis, correlation charts, etc:
    SportTracks ? Plugin Catalog ? Training Analysis

    Trainer power tracks:
    SportTracks ? Plugin Catalog ? Trainer Power Track

    Custom calculations and analysis.. do what you will with power and other data. Skys the limit.
    SportTracks ? Plugin Catalog ? Calculated Fields

    There are other plugins for planning and scheduling, gps routing, etc. A scan of the plugin catalog reveals all.

    I find sporttracks pretty intuitive, but then again I've been using it for several years. Some plug-ins are better than others in terms of ease of use. My only gripe with ST is it is only available in Windows -- unless you use the new 'mobi' web-based version. I've always been drawn to Golden Cheetah because it is truly open source and runs natively on Linux, but so far have been too lazy to really give GC a try since ST is working well.

  7. #7
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    What software for power meter?

    All the different power meter software analysis options have significant flaws. It's a case of choosing the least worst option currently.

    The problem with both Poweragent and Golden Cheetah 3.0 is that the graph options for looking at and working with your data aren't there. You can't change the scaling of individual traces on the graph (speed, power, altitude etc) so it winds up being harder to interpret what was going on than it should be. Golden Cheetah 3.0 in particular is lacking a lot of documentation too. If there was a detailed user manual it would help a lot.

    I use WKO+ 3.0 at the moment for a few reasons, although it hasn't been updated for years and some parts don't work with Windows 8. The main strengths of WKO+ 3.0 are:

    - It allows you to change the individual scales, zoom selections and work with laps quickly and easily in the graph view.

    - The search and filtering options allow you to easily find past rides of interest.

    - It allows you to set and keep historic power zones. (say you do an FTP test in July whilst you're on top form and you enter a new higher FTP figure into the software, recalculating your power zones, the rides done before the test stay at the lower FTP power level, so that your TSS, IF, reports and PMC (Performance Manager Chart) remain consistent throughout. This is important for tracking progress as if your new higher FTP figure was applied to historic rides it would skew the figures, making what may have been hard rides riding at your lower FTP appear as gentle rides if your new higher FTP figure were to replace the lower FTP figure that you were using at the time.)

    WKO 4 is supposed to be released 10 December 2013. Unless there's a glaring issue with it I'll be switching to that once it's available.

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    I've used both Sporttracks and Golden Cheetah and much prefer Golden Cheetah. I actually don't even use Sporttracks anymore. I just never found the UI to be all that good and GC is designed directly for the job of power analysis. The only thing I used Sporttracks for was tracking runs and swims, but luckily I've given up on those 2 silly sports.

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    GC also allows you to track historic power zones. In options, go to Athlete, Power and you can enter an FTP and a date. It uses that for the correct date range.

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    WKO+ 4.0 is due out in approx 2 weeks. Based on coggans webinars & not too much has been released, but the new power profile curve is a tremendous change over the previous & is the most accurate on the market. Also will have a whole slew of new stuff that the others will likely be looking to scramble & copy

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    What software for power meter?

    So long as you keep the original recorded data .fit files on your computer (assuming you're going to be using a Garmin Edge head unit) then you can try out most of the different software packages and websites by importing the .fit files into them whenever you wish. You can try out all the different options side by side to begin with until you decide which works best for you.

    When the Garmin Edge is connected to a computer you can browse to the Activities folder on the Garmin Edge and manually copy - paste the .fit files from the Garmin into a folder on your hard drive for safe keeping. Having too many saved .fit files on the Garmin Edge slows it down and they take up storage space so it's best to clear them out periodically. I tend to delete them about once a month.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poncharelli View Post
    PowerAgent is free from the Saris website. That's what I use. I'm used to it and their terms are compatible with the Coggan nomenclature.

    What WKO mainly gives you over other software is the load management (ATL, CTL, etc.). I believe sporttracks gives that to ya. golden cheetah has something similar.
    I also use PowerAgent. After I purchased the CycleOps spin bike from them, I decided that I might as well use the software too. Works just fine for me.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprocketjockey9 View Post
    WKO+ 4.0 is due out in approx 2 weeks. Based on coggans webinars & not too much has been released, but the new power profile curve is a tremendous change over the previous & is the most accurate on the market. Also will have a whole slew of new stuff that the others will likely be looking to scramble & copy
    I am curious about the WKO+ 4.0 as they have mentioned there will be a native Mac version (release date untold for that). I tried to watch a bit of one or two segments of the "webinar" on 4.0 but nodded off rather quickly.

    Will all devices that currently work with earlier versions of WKO still work, or will there be all kinds of patches and updates needed? I have no power meter for my outdoor bikes, and the ones that I do have are not able to upload. Why? My consoles on the basement LeMond and LifeCycle exercise bikes do measure power, cadence, heart rate, speed, distance, etc...but they are so old there is no USB port to export the data. Both companies inform me that it is not possible to upgrade the old consoles to new ones - that I must get new bikes.

    I am stuck with simply reading the data face to console at the end of each workout which doesn't do me much good for tracking. So I am looking to "upgrade" but live in an all Mac household (and all Mac work space). I can get a good price on the newer LeMond with the USB port to download workouts at the moment and they would take a trade in on my old machine, so I am tempted for that venue I use for several months each year (basement off season training). But it uses a product called WKO Lite. Not sure how and if that will jive with the new WKO 4 coming out or if it will need to be updated as well. I suppose I should contact LeMond about that... .

    I also am looking for a solution that I can use on mulitiple bikes for riding (road and my mountain bikes). If the Garmin pedals ever come out in a SPD format - I think I would be set for portability. I've looked at the iBike Newton, but it doesn't sound very mountain bike friendly. The Stages looks good as well, but again - not portable between road and mountain bike so would have to buy more than one which adds to the investment. Wheel swaps with different rear wheel spacing is out - so I kind of remain "stuck" in my research of a solution. And the software sort of has me "stuck" at the moment as well with what or what not to get.

    So - if anyone answering this post currently was all Mac, wanted portability for road bike and mountain bike(s) - what would your solution be to get into a power measuring device and software?

    TIA

  14. #14
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    What software for power meter?

    Quote Originally Posted by BruceBrown View Post
    I am stuck with simply reading the data face to console at the end of each workout which doesn't do me much good for tracking. So I am looking to "upgrade" but live in an all Mac household (and all Mac work space). I can get a good price on the newer LeMond with the USB port to download workouts at the moment and they would take a trade in on my old machine, so I am tempted for that venue I use for several months each year (basement off season training). But it uses a product called WKO Lite. Not sure how and if that will jive with the new WKO 4 coming out or if it will need to be updated as well. I suppose I should contact LeMond about that... .
    Looking at the manual the Lemond G-Force UT exercise bike exports its data onto the USB memory stick as an Excel .csv file.

    Page 19:
    http://www.lemondfitness.com/files/f..._OM_102512.pdf

    There shouldn't be a problem importing that .csv file into different training software. It's not as though LeMond are using a proprietary file format that would only work with their own software. One Mac solution would be to upload the file into a web based software eg: Training Peaks web version. So long as you keep the original .csv files they can be imported into multiple programs as needed, in the same way as .fit files from Garmin head units.

    There's a Mac compatible version of the Training Peaks Device Agent so you could upload the LeMond .csv files straight into that:

    http://support.trainingpeaks.com/device-agent.aspx

    The WKO Lite software is probably just a cut down WKO+ 3 (no Mac version) so it wouldn't be much use to you in itself. When the next version of WKO+ comes out they have previously offered an upgrade, so that owners of the previous version have the opportunity to purchase the new software version at a cheaper price than full retail. If WKO Lite is included in that upgrade path it might get you a cheaper copy of the WKO+ 4 Mac version perhaps.

    WKO+ 4 is delayed so it isn't clear when it will actually be released now. They missed their original release date.

  15. #15
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    Thanks, WR304! I think I'm going to wheel and deal for the LeMond trainer as an "upgrade" for me in the basement training department.

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    What software for power meter?

    Some possible software for using with a Mac is a program called Rubitrack. It comes in an IOS version too which allows you to import various file formats (including .csv) by uploading to Dropbox and then transferring them into the IOS app.

    http://www.rubitrack.com/index.html

    IOS version:
    https://itunes.apple.com/gb/app/rubi...722893490?mt=8

    There isn't a PC version so I haven't tried it but it might be worth a look.

  17. #17
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    What software for power meter?

    I gave the RubiTrack IOS app a try, bulk importing my 2013 .fit files in via Dropbox.

    Here are a couple of screenshots showing the summary pages and a red highlighted section of ride. If you look alongside the red highlighted line on the map you get the different power zones laid out alongside the GPS track.

    This shows the Calendar view. You can arrange this in different ways, allocate different rides to different activity types etc. When I bulk imported the ride files the turbo trainer rides were identified in green as walking whilst the outdoor files were identified in red as cycling (you can manually change this). The view can be expanded or shrunk for weekly, monthly or mini (annual) views.



    This shows one of the overall summary screens. You swipe sideways to switch between metrics. Here the top of the page shows total ride time per month in hours (red is outdoors, green is turbo training). As you can see I missed my overall target for December 2013 ( to do more than the month before). It stopped raining around midday 31 December 2013 but I was too tired to get out for a proper ride so settled for just doing an hour on the turbo trainer.

    The bottom of the page shows total climbing ascent (in feet) per month. It's not easy to get this figure as a total in WKO+ 3.0 so I found it interesting that apparently I did over 42,000ft of climbing in November.



    The app is a bit limited in terms of features for looking at power data. You don't get that many options for displaying power metrics. It feels like that part isn't really fully complete at the moment. You do get a training stress section in the summaries though which appears to be using power data. There are gaps where my powermeter was broken so it looks like it uses power data for that. The top of the page is "Short Term Training Stress", the bottom of the page is "Long Term Training Stress".



    This shows the detail from an individual ride. I've highlighted the GPS track for the hill, which has displayed the summary info alongside. You can zoom in and out and also read off individual values on the graph. Although the manual lap markers are shown you only get time and distance for each lap.


  18. #18
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    Sounds good. Or at least it sounds like there is more than one option available.

  19. #19
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    Honestly, Strava Premium has some pretty cool analysis tools.

    I'm using TrainingPeaks premium online with my coach. I can't say I understand everything about it yet but it definitely has the communications infrastructure that's needed to support that working relationship. I wonder if WKO+ has more or less the same features?

  20. #20
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    What software for power meter?

    There's been quite a large update for RubiTrack for IOS. It adds in some of the features that it was missing before, such as being able to change the graph axis from distance to time and also see the Manual Lap information from your ride files by tapping on individual laps. Scrolling and zooming works a lot better now too.

    This picture shows where I have highlighted Lap 2 and the information is displayed. To switch between laps you tap on the Lap numbers just below the graph. This selection appears on the GPS map view if you have them visible alongside one another at the same time. I have the graph with the X axis set to time here which is my preferred view. Previously you could only have the X axis set to distance so that's a big improvement.



    The update has also added in some new power meter metrics and options as well. Here's a screenshot of the update list and bug fixes for RubiTrack v1.1.


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    If you've got rubiTrack for IOS don't install today's 1.1.1 update. It stops the program working (as I've just discovered. )

    There's a forum post saying that there will be a fix for it soon though:

    The rubiTrack Forum ? View topic - DO NOT UPDATE TO VERSION 1.1.1

    .

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    What software for power meter?

    The new Garmin Connect app syncs with the 510 and 810 via Bluetooth much more quickly. I pass the file over to Trainingpeaks and Strava with Tapirrik.com

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    They're supposed to be adding new things to the Garmin Connect website, including segments like in Strava apparently.

    DCRainmaker did an article a while ago about some of the different options for getting your data from Garmin Connect into other websites:

    3 Ways to Automatically Copy Your Garmin Training Data to Other Fitness Sites | DC Rainmaker

    Another article that he wrote on the same subject is this one about the purchase of MapMyFitness too.

    What the acquisition of MapMyFitness by Under Armour really means for the industry | DC Rainmaker

    .

  24. #24
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    What software for power meter?

    A nice feature in rubiTrack is the ability to see how much time you spent freewheeling during a ride. If you have a recorded power or cadence trace you can adjust the zones setting in rubiTrack so that <1 watt or rpm is displayed as a seperate item.

    This picture shows how I have the colour coded zones set so that the first zone is between 0 and 1 watts to split out the time where I wasn't pedalling. I have the zones set for even amounts here instead of training zones.



    This picture shows the pie chart power summary giving the time spent in each zone. If you have "Follow Selection" ticked then the pie chart will update to show the time in zones for just what you have selected. That's actually a lot easier to use than WKO+ 3.0 as to get the same split power information for individual sections of a ride in WKO+ 3.0 you have to copy and paste bits of file into new workouts.



    So long as you have "Detect Stops" selected and "Use Original Device Data" unselected in the rubiTrack ride settings this will exclude any stationary time from the summary.


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    What software for power meter?

    Quote Originally Posted by WR304 View Post
    Some possible software for using with a Mac is a program called rubiTrack. It comes in an IOS version too which allows you to import various file formats (including .csv) by uploading to Dropbox and then transferring them into the IOS app.

    http://www.rubitrack.com/index.html

    IOS version:
    https://itunes.apple.com/gb/app/rubi...722893490?mt=8
    rubiTrack for IOS has been updated now so that it's free with a paid upgrade to unlock some extra features. (I paid 23.99 GBP for it... ) Still, it's a good app that I use quite a bit.

    One of the nice things that you get in rubiTrack which isn't in WKO+ 3.0 is the ability to look at left - right power balance. The graph below is using my Power2Max power meter. Here I was a doing a series of sprint intervals of different durations. You can see quite well how the left right power balance changes with intensity. (My good right leg does most of the work cycling whilst my bad left leg does very little so it's correct for the power balance to never be 50/50.)


  26. #26
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    What software for power meter?

    Training Peaks added a new blog post about their much delayed WKO+ 4 software.

    http://home.trainingpeaks.com/blog/a...update-on-wko4

    At this rate it might come out in 2015.

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    I'd just like to thank WR304. I always enjoy the info you so graciously impart to all of us about training with power. You have an excellent knowledge. I've learned a lot from you and just wanted to say thank you!

  28. #28
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    Tsk tsk. They've been going with a feature-incomplete Beta of Trainingpeaks Online for a long time now as well. I use it for 90% of my work because in an HTML5 browser it's much faster with a better interface than the old Flash/Flex interface, but not everything works. For instance, there is no private messaging feature in Beta. The iPhone app is based on the beta HTML5 interface too. As a paying customer, I'd like to say just get it done.



    Quote Originally Posted by WR304 View Post
    Training Peaks added a new blog post about their much delayed WKO+ 4 software.

    An Update on WKO4 | TrainingPeaks

    At this rate it might come out in 2015.

  29. #29
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    What software for power meter?

    When it comes to power meter data presenting it in a format that you can make sense of and understand is where a lot of the benefit lies. All the current website options have problems with that.

    I'm not a fan of the online Training Peaks website. Unless you subscribe it's all locked down with "premium feature" pop ups appearing every time you click anywhere. Even if you subscribe you're still missing the feature that makes WKO+ 3.0 worth having - the ability to change the Y axis scale for individual traces on the graph.

    The pricing sucks too as they're clearly trying to push you into an annual subscription:

    Training Peaks website subscription as at 29 June 2014
    $19.95 USD for one month ($239.40 USD per year)
    $49.00 USD for three months ($196 USD per year)
    $79.00 USD for six months ($158 USD per year)
    $119.00 USD for 12 months

    Compare that to Strava, where you can use at least most of the features for free (they sell your data to third parties so there are downsides) and the subscription is much cheaper:

    http://www.tuaw.com/2014/05/23/strav...s-of-creating/

    http://lifehacker.com/lots-of-health...why-1574001899

    Strava website subscription as at 29 June 2014
    $6.00 USD for one month ($72 USD per year)
    $59.00 USD for 12 months

    Garmin Connect is free but hardly amazing.

  30. #30
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    Trainingpeaks Online has its place in the market because of its ability to communicate and plan with a coach. But the Beta is just stuck; it's like they have run out of money with their developers or something. In general if you're training yourself, the desktop version makes more sense.

    Should You Subscribe to TrainingPeaks Premium or Buy*WKO+? - Posts - TrainingPeaks Blog

    I think it's clear (see in the comments below) that they do have limited development resources. With more work into the HTML5 Beta I'm certain that all the detail in the desktop version could be added to the Online version. Then both markets would get the best value and they'd be able to make their deadlines too

  31. #31
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    [QUOTE=chomxxo;11295584]Trainingpeaks Online has its place in the market because of its ability to communicate and plan with a coach. But the Beta is just stuck; it's like they have run out of money with their developers or something. /QUOTE]

    The new BETA version is even more clunky than the old version, I have been using Golden Cheetah it has some good tools but not as polished as WKO+
    Cul is a regretted trademark of the CulBaire Co'op Pty Ltd, as are his random ramblings and associated bullshit.

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    Strava has got some talented developers, I'll give them that, and the interface is extremely clean. But their for-pay offering's tools are still just prosumer.

    I find the Trainingpeaks Online Beta to be significantly more usable and faster than the original. Possibly I'm influenced by being able to see through the interface to the architecture, which is Steve Jobs-approved HTML5 instead of Adobe Flash. Except for renaming laps, it's considerably faster. Its user cues like color coding and tabs scale better. As an IT project manager I'd strongly advise Trainingpeaks to focus their development resources singularly on the beta, as it also runs the iPhone app and could potentially be the Mac-compatible solution, as well as having the modern interface toolkit to assume every bit of functionality of WKO+ while continuing the collaborative capabilities of the online version. But I digress, back to bike riding

  33. #33
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    What software for power meter?

    One of my friend's bought himself a Garmin Edge 500 with heart rate last week. He knows about bikes and liked the idea of being able to record rides but is retired and not very technical when it comes to computers and electronic gadgets.

    The simpler the better basically. Anything too complex and he wouldn't use it.

    I set the Garmin Edge 500 up so that the options were configured in advance, the sensors were paired, the display was set and it was all good to go with a minimum of steps required:

    1. Press the Power button to turn it on, let the Garmin lock onto satellites.
    2. Press Start to begin recording and do the ride.
    3. Press Start again to stop the timer at the end.
    4. Hold down Reset until the 3-2-1 countdown disappears and that's it, ride saved.

    My detailed Garmin Edge 500 settings and screen layouts are here:

    Power2Max MTB Power Meter

    The difficulty was deciding what to do with the information. He refused to upload to a website such as Strava or Garmin Connect, due to privacy concerns. I then had a think about the PC based options but there really isn't anything that's super easy and intuitive to use.

    As he has an iPad I settled on rubiTrack for IOS. Using the (configured in advance) Dropbox sync this only takes a couple of extra actions:

    PC
    5. Connect the Garmin Edge 500 to a computer by USB.
    6. Go to My Computer - Double left click on the Garmin icon - Browse to the Garmin - Activities folder.
    7. Right click on the .fit file with today's date and select Copy.
    8. Open the Dropbox folder - Browse to the Apps - rubiTrack folder within it.
    9. Right click within the folder and select Paste to add the .fit file.

    iPad
    10. With the iPad's wifi turned on open the rubiTrack app (shaped like a foot).
    11. Tap on the Sync icon at the bottom (2nd from right).
    12. Tap on the Dropbox icon on the sync page - a circle will go round and the file will be imported.
    13. Tap on the Calendar icon (2nd from left) and the ride should have appeared.
    14. Tap on the red ride summary to view the details for that day.

    So far that method has been working ok. Once the ride is in rubiTrack for IOS he's been happily swiping between screens and finding the way that the information is displayed clear. He particularly likes the way that you can colour drop the route on the map with traces such as speed, heart rate etc to see at a glance what was happening at a particular point, along with holding a finger down on the route to view selections.

    That colour drop on the map and graphs is what seems to be the most successful feature. It makes changes stand out more. The graph below is of heart rate and elevation during a one hour out and back ride. With the colour drop to identify different zones it shows how it was a gentle start with a low heart rate to begin with on the way out. The intensity rises on the way back as the route gradually goes uphill.



    rubiTrack for IOS Import Settings:

  34. #34
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    What software for power meter?

    If you use Strava there are various third party add ons and websites that can provide extra features. This isn't a full list.

    Raceshape lets you do a comparison overlay for a segment to see where you gained or lost time against other people:

    http://raceshape.com/

    Strava Flyby Viewer lets you see who other riders were that you passed or met on a ride:

    http://labs.strava.com/flyby/

    Veloviewer lets you see just your ride data so you can keep track of individual progress:

    http://veloviewer.com/

    http://www.bikerumor.com/2014/05/10/...he-next-level/

    Mesmeride creates an elevation profile of your ride in the style of a Grand Tour:

    http://www.mesmeride.com/



    In Strava itself from the Dashboard, if you click on your picture at the top right of the screen and select "My Profile" this gives you an overall summary of your total hours, mileage and ascent for each week/month. Click on different blue bars to see what you did in that particular week. It sounds obvious but I was talking to one of my friend's who has used Strava for several years and he wasn't aware that it was there.

    When you're viewing other people's Strava profiles bear in mind that any rides they've marked "Private" aren't included in the public summary that anyone can look at. When viewing your own profile "Private" rides are included.

    Something that's useful is to be able to repair and edit your .fit files when needed. This website converts a .fit file into a .csv file, allowing you to make the edits you need. Once finished you rename the file and convert it back into a .fit file again via the website. I've found this handy a few times.

    http://garmin.kiesewetter.nl/

    Convert your exported files (.pwx, .tcx, .fit, .gpx etc) into a different type of file:

    http://www.gpsies.com/convert.do

    .
    Last edited by WR304; 07-04-2014 at 03:26 PM.

  35. #35
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    What software for power meter?

    A large part of making the software work for you is presentation, getting the file to a point where trends and notable features become identifiable. In WKO+ 3.0 hiding some traces tidies the graph up. I usually have just power, speed and altitude displayed with Time as the X Axis. You can add all sorts of lines by double left clicking on the scale and adding the ones you want. In the graph below I've put a single line for average power (227 watts).

    The amount of smoothing to use depends upon what you're interested in. For a big picture overview 1 minute smoothing, or more, takes out a lot of the jumpiness. If you wanted to look at how you paced yourself over the entire ride this shows how close you were and whether there are any anomalies. The graph below shows the overview of a hard ride with three climbs. If you look at the smoothed 1 minute power trace relative to the average power dotted line you can see how my power was higher riding up the hills, dropped below average on the downhills and was consistent on the flatter sections.



    When riding it's worth putting some manual lap markers in, by pressing the Lap button on your Garmin head unit. This makes it easier to identify where you were at a particular point. It also makes it easier to compare how you're riding between months and years. The table below shows the lap splits for the same ride. Where I rode it in July 2012 and then the same splits on the same route in 5 July 2014.



    Because the lap markers are in exactly the same place it's possible to see how they compare. Times aren't always directly comparable, because of varying wind directions and weather, but with a power trace you can also see the power output which gives additional insight. In July 2012 the main thing to look at is the power output on the flatter sections between climbs. These were well down on the overall average. In July 2014 the flatter sections were closer to the overall average.

    In terms of pacing for July 2014 I had a game plan of aiming for a negative split - starting off without going too overboard and saving energy for the final section. By dividing the ride into smaller sections using laps you can see how this worked out. The final climb wasn't much quicker, as I tried to hold something back, but then the final section (highlighted in yellow) was where I made up a big chunk of time at a much higher average power than July 2012.

    Along with an overview you can also look closer at individual sections of a ride. How you did descending, the surges you put in on a climb, whether you kept going over the top or not etc. For these sort of items you don't want much smoothing on the graph. Either no smoothing or 5 second smoothing is usually best. The more smoothing you have the less detail there is. The graph below shows the fastest descent, third climb and then the beginning of the final descent home from 5 July 2014. This has 5 second smoothing applied.



    If you look at the descent this is quite steep and fast. It was pouring with rain so I took no risks. There's no power trace indicating that I was freewheeling for most of the descent. An upwards slope on the speed trace means that you're accelerating and gaining speed. On descents a downwards slope on the speed trace means that you're braking. You can count individual seconds of the downslope to see how long you were on the brakes before a corner. The point at the bottom of the downwards slope shows your speed at the apex of the corner. I've highlighted the two bends on the graph with green squares.

    After the descent I began the third climb. This is a mixture of short rises and then flatter sections. You can see the big spikes in power above the dotted average line on the shorter rises. This is where you can get an idea of pacing. Whether you're putting in overly high efforts on the rises or maybe letting the effort drop too much on the flatter sections. For a time trial effort like this, where I was aiming to be fast over the entire ride, not just one climb, I was trying not to go too far into the red on the short rises. If you start putting in super high spikes of power you'll frequently find that it takes time to recover afterwards. By using the power meter display to avoid overly high spikes you can maintain the pace.

    After the climb proper finishes is a section that's worth looking at in a power file. Did you keep the pressure on or sit up? At the top of this climb I was able to keep pushing on. There are two short pauses where I stopped pedalling but that's all.

    The power distribution for the ride will show the amount of time spent at 0-20 watts. It includes descending but even so I only spent 5% of the time freewheeling (stationary time is excluded). That's good. A typical steady road ride for me is more like 10% freewheeling. If you're seeing high amounts of 0-20 watts freewheeling in a file dig a bit deeper to understand why.

    Freewheeling and zero power is something to keep an eye on. If you're freewheeling a lot you're potentially losing time as you could be pedalling. Large amounts of freewheeling on the flat on solo road rides, especially near the end and closely spaced on the graph, can often be a sign of fatigue or saddle soreness. (Group rides and offroad rides will tend to see more freewheeling at zero watts than solo road rides).


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    I agree with TwoWheelMa

    Quote Originally Posted by TwoWheelMan View Post
    Good suggestions above. Another to consider is Sporttracks from Zone5. It's not quite free, but close, and worth the money. The base version may not have all the functionality for power analysis, but the add-on toolboxes make it very powerful ('training load', for example).There is a Windows PC version and a new web version. I use the PC version primarily because it has more functionality and that's how I roll, but the web version can be handy for uploading and storing rides when travelling without a windows PC. The logfile synchronizes between the PC and web versions.
    I agree with TwoWheelMa

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    mmmm ... Sporttracks. In order to use Cloudsync (e.g. store your log file online) you have to purchase an additional license (~ $ 60 / a). Sporttracks PC costs a one time fee. However, what really pi$$ed me off was that all their bla bla on their webpage made me believe that online storage is a feature of Sporttracks PC (or its license). Who knows, maybe they have made it clearer on their webpage now.

    Furthermore, all their development efforts seem to go into the *.mobi version. Not my cup of tea.

  38. #38
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    I use TrainingPeaks Premium. I started using it when I had a coach, but continue to use it. I find the Performance Management Chart to be one of the most beneficial tools I've ever used for training. With that said, I'm tired of paying the money. I did find a couple excel spreadsheets that track your PMC so I'll play with those.

    I do have WKO+ as well so I may just switch to that. There was a lot of discussion on WKO 4 over at Slowtwitch, which resulted with an updated blog post from TP. If Slowtwitch members are upset, manufacturers listen.

    I haven't tried GC yet, but will also experiment with that. I use to use SportTracks exclusively but their UI really sucks compared to TP.

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    Have you tried Race Day? It has a really good algorithm for tracking and then predicting performance over time, which is useful if you want to try to plan your build and taper leading up to an event.

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    Hey, in case someone searches for a mobile analysis software, there is a new one for iPhone and iPad: Trainalyse - Mobile Training Analysis for iPhone and iPad
    It supports power in plot as well as has a view on the amount of time/distance spend in different power zones. Zones are fully configurable. You might give it a try, there is a free lite version.

  41. #41
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    What software for power meter?

    Trainalyse definitely has potential, although it isn't that polished at the moment. The screenshot below is from the Trainalyse Lite version on iPad. The summary text font is a bit small and hard to read and the small icons don't have a text tooltip to tell you what they are.



    When I load a .fit file into Trainalyse Lite how do I get it so just the graph is displayed without the upper overlay? Can you read values or selections off from the graph. I was tapping on it but nothing happened.

    Is it possible to change the scales on the graph too? There's a lot of white space at the top of the screen and Left/ Right Power Balance being off the top of the graph altogether. You can just see the purple power balance at the top of the graph.

    Sharing the file (tap the black circle with a dot in at the top right of the screen and save to Camera Roll) gets a nicer layout than in the program itself with larger text and no overlay.



    Edit: It is possible to change the scales on the graph. In order to change the scales tap on the circle with the square inside at the top left of the screen (blue) and then tap on the cog icon (green). This brings up a screen where you can use sliders to adjust the scales for the different traces. This lets you get the graph a bit tidier, as seen below.

    It is a global setting though so you end up with the same scale on every file.




  42. #42
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    Hi WR304,

    as you might have already guessed, I am affiliated with Trainalyse.

    On the I pad, you cannot display the graph without the upper section. On the iPhone you can, in case you use the horizontal orientation.

    Tapping on the graph and getting the value did not make it into the first release version. But its definitely a good suggestion.

    As you already found out, you can set the plot range as you like via the zone settings in Trainalyse. To let the user pick the plot range was done on purpose. Auto scaling---used in almost any other app / web portal---is very problematic in case of spikes. And more important, auto scaling is very bad for comparability between tracks. Just toggle between two tracks via the quick access bar on the left, and you will see how nice it is that the scaling remains as you switch tracks. You can compare based on the position of the plot-line and do not need to check the scale again for each track. The advantage really pays of the more you use the app and "know" the scaling and typical plot-line position for a certain measurement.

    Regarding zone configuration: Your screenshot shows that you heavily modified the default zones :-) Be aware that the zones you configure are used in the "zone view" to provide you a kind of "custom histogram": Time or distance spent in a certain zone. It's therefore advantageous to use multiple zones for each measurement (you reconfigured speed/pace to one zone in contrast). The configured zone colors are also used to color the segments in the segments view, as well as in the map view. Zones with distinct colors are therefore advantageous.

    Im am a litte bit confused about your right/left balance. All test recordings used during development had readings being around 50% (both legs being of almost same strength), and almost always within +/- 20% around 50%. Your track is 99% within >70%. Do other apps show the same? If not, there might be an import issue for this particular track. In case its an import issue, I would be glad to examine the problem.

    - Thomas

  43. #43
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    What software for power meter?

    A lot of the features are down to the ways that different people look at ride files I think.

    If you look at Post #35 of this thread it shows how I normally look at a ride file in WKO+ 3.0 on a PC. The functionality and method is what I would use on iPad too.

    - being able to view the graph fullscreen
    - being able to change the level of smoothing (essential)
    - being able to change the Y axis scales
    - being able to read off individual values at particular points on a graph
    - being able to zoom in the graph to look at key sections of the ride
    - being able to quick select sections of graph
    - being able to view manual laps added whilst riding

    What software for power meter?

    Of those being able to zoom in the graph and change the level of smoothing applied to the graph are essential features. Smoothing makes such a huge difference to the meaning of what you see on screen that it needs to be adjustable.

    With the custom zones in my screenshot the reason for removing most of the zone sliders, leaving just the minimum and maximum sliders, was to make it easier to adjust the range on the graph. If you have lots of zones added it means every intermediate slider has to be moved individually, which takes more time. By removing them you set the min and max values with just two actions.

    Ideally Altitude should have a manual adjustment available also, rather than being an auto setting.

    When it comes to Left - Right Power Balance my left leg is paralysed from the knee down. In my Power2Max power meter files I normally have a roughly 85% Right leg / 15% Left leg power balance. It makes a good test for power meter software because it's asymmetric and so far from 50/50 balance that it shows up any issues.

    Power2Max MTB Power Meter

    .

  44. #44
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    As I've got a Strava Premium subscription at the moment here is a look at how power data in Strava compares with WKO+ 3.0. Without a subscription you can see average power in Strava but not your power zones, power curve and PMC (Performance Management Chart).

    The first thing in Strava is to make sure your weight and FTP figures are entered to match with any other software you use. Settings - My Profile for weight and Settings - My Performance for FTP. I have my weight entered as 146lb and my FTP entered as 240 watts (more on this later).

    When you see a ride with "Suffer Score" in red letters this score is based on heart rate. Suffer Score is "inspired by" TRIMP scores. It's purely on heart rate.

    https://strava.zendesk.com/entries/2...Score-Premium-

    The power training sections of Strava look to be "inspired by" the Coggan power zones and use the same metrics with different names. The power training zones are the same also.

    https://strava.zendesk.com/entries/2...ry-for-Cycling

    Overview
    Here is a summary from a ride that I did on 22 March 2015. I've put the summaries from Strava and WKO+ 3.0 alongside one another. These are both based on exactly the same Garmin .fit file.



    Total Work (kj) = Work (kj)

    Strava Weighted Average Power = NP (Normalized Power)

    Strava Training Load = TSS (Training Stress Score)

    Strava Intensity = IF (Intensity Factor) in brackets next to TSS in WKO+ 3.0

    Whenever you import a ride file into a program or website there are differences between how they interpret that file. Here you can see that the power summaries aren't exact. They're close but Weighted Avg Power and Training Load in Strava for this ride doesn't quite equal Normalized Power and TSS for the same ride in WKO+ 3.0. For all my rides Normalized Power is consistently around 6 watts higher in WKO+ 3.0. TSS in WKO+ 3.0 is consistently higher by a few points also. This is true for a ride with no stationary time at all as well as ones where I was stopping.

    ---Important Edit-----
    The reason that there are differences between Normalized Power and Strava Weighted Average Power is because Strava Weighted Average Power is actually xPower.

    This isn't down to timing differences or mismatched settings. It's because they are using different metrics. The Garmin uses Normalized Power, which is a 30-second rolling average. Strava uses xPower, which is an exponentially weighted moving average with a time constant of 25 seconds.

    xPower in Golden Cheetah - Training advice - Timetrialling Forum

    The two metrics give similar results but won't match exactly. It's close enough that they are only a few points different. The Strava Fitness and Freshness graph (Performance Management Chart) still reads about the same as a Performance Management Chart based on Normalized Power (eg: Training Peaks, WKO+ 3.0, WKO 4).


    Strava Graph Analysis
    There aren't any new features added for this in Strava premium. You still only get the small line of graph for power. It can be zoomed in but that's all so you easily miss trends or important features as a result. My ride on 22 March 2015 is a nice example of this. Here's the Strava graph view of my power output. You can't really see what's going on as the graph is tiny.



    Here's the same ride in WKO+ 3.0, with 5 minute smoothing on so that you can see the overall pattern of the ride and how it wasn't simply a ride at one pace.



    The story behind this is that I had intended to do one of the Sunday group rides but I was late. After a steady endurance pace there I spent the next two hours chasing (they averaged 18.5 mph and I averaged 17mph for the two hours so I didn't catch them oddly enough) followed by another couple of hours at endurance pace afterwards. If you only saw the Strava power graph you wouldn't necessarily spot that.

    Training Zones
    Along with summaries Strava Premium shows your time in Zone.



    You can't manually adjust these zones in Strava as they're calculated automatically. The zones are very close to the Coggan Power Zones calculated automatically in WKO+ 3.0 but again they're not identical. Over longer rides in particular you'll find that there can be as much as one to two minutes difference for time in zone. This isn't a big issue but continues the theme of the power numbers being slightly different.

    Active Recovery 1-132 watts (Strava), 0-133 watts (WKO+ 3.0)
    Endurance 133 - 180 watts (Strava), 134-181 watts (WKO+ 3.0)
    Tempo 181 - 216 watts (Strava), 182-217 watts (WKO+ 3.0)
    Threshold 217 - 252 watts (Strava), 218-253 watts (WKO+ 3.0)
    VO2Max 253 - 288 watts (Strava), 254-289 watts (WKO+ 3.0)
    Anaerobic 289 - 360 watts (Strava), 290+ watts (WKO+ 3.0)
    Neuromuscular 360+ watts (Strava)

    Best Power Curve
    For each ride on Strava you get a power curve that allows you to read off the best power or best W/KG for a particular duration. Under Training - Power Curve you also get a Best Efforts Power Curve for a chosen time period. This is what is pictured here:



    In the Strava training section there is an "Estimated FTP". This is based on the Monod critical power model:

    "Hi folks,

    The "Estimated FTP" value on the Power Curve page is an experimental feature. It is based solely on the Power Curve you have selected. The formula is based on the Monod critical power model which tends to overestimate FTP.

    Hope that helps!"
    Elle Anderson - Strava

    https://strava.zendesk.com/entries/2...e-Power-Curve-

    Where the rest of the Strava power information is close I wanted to comment on this Strava Estimated FTP. I'm using an FTP figure of 240 watts in WKO+ 3.0. Although I haven't done an hour at 240 watts so far this year that's not to say I can't, just that I haven't. In 2015 so far I've been mostly concentrating on longer rides.

    I have done a few straight up 1 hour time trial efforts however, including an hour at 225 watts in late January 2015. It was a surprise to me to see my estimated FTP in Strava on this curve for 2015 showing as 217 watts. That's way out and lower than what I've actually done. The power bests themselves seem ok but I'd treat the estimated FTP figure in Strava with suspicion.

    Strava Fitness and Freshness

    In WKO+ 3.0 you have a PMC (Performance Management Chart) for tracking training load and fatigue. Strava has a very similar chart under Training - Fitness and Freshness. The same principles apply to both.



    The main thing to remember with this is that if you have differences in the calculation of Strava Training Load = TSS (Training Stress Score) for individual rides this will feed into this chart. There's also an option to include rides using just heart rate. I haven't got any rides with heart rate. Using just power this is quite a close approximation, give or take a point or two, which doesn't really matter as this chart is a big picture overview. At 03 April 2015 the two charts are quite close for me (There are some 2015 rides that I haven't uploaded into Strava which is why Strava Fitness is so much lower than CTL).

    Strava Fitness 101= 116.9 CTL (Cumulative Training Load)

    Strava Fatigue 96 = 99 ATL (Acute Training Load)

    Strava Form 5 = 4.2 TSB (Training Stress Balance)

    Strava Effort Comparison
    One of my favourite parts is being able to compare power outputs at particular points. The graph shows your time advantage or disadvantage over a segment. This picture shows five attempts at the same climb. From the drop down menu you can decide whether to compare speed, power or heart rate. Here I have power displayed.



    What this shows is that for the first part of the climb I was quite close between all five attempts. The big difference is that once the gradient begins to ease around the 0.5mile mark time gaps start opening up. You can then use the cursor to read off how the power output compared at that point. On my best time (purple) I was gaining time and also putting out the highest power output. On the slowest time on this comparison (dark blue) I was losing time but also riding a steady pace with a much lower power output.

    In order to do a best time up this climb it's the second half of the climb where I'd need to hit it hard as possible because that's where the most time could be made up. Easier said than done.
    Last edited by WR304; 09-23-2015 at 01:35 PM.

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    I came to basically the same conclusion that the only useful feature beyond WKO or Golden Cheetah of Strava Premium is the Effort Comparison. And you actually can compare efforts in GC, but not as neatly as Strava. I don't know if it's worth $60 a year.

  46. #46
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    The Strava comparison picture above shows just my efforts. What I really wanted the Strava comparison for was to compare against other people's rides. The premium subscription makes it much easier to filter and add in different rides to the comparison. This aspect of the premium version (adding the particular rides I wanted to view straight away) wasalmost worth the money in itself for the time saved. Trying to add and remove rides in the free version wasn't as straightforward.

    That extra ease of use, along with having the power curve on rides, were the two Strava premium features I wanted. The other things were incidental as I use WKO+ 3.0 for my main training diary.

  47. #47
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    GPS tracks don't always stay exactly on course, especially when you're riding under tree cover. On today's ride for example my GPS track on a wooded climb was way off. The problem with the GPS track not following the route is that you'll miss any Strava segments that are there. I'm not usually that bothered but today I'd ridden as hard as I could up this climb on the club ride and wanted to see it in Strava.

    Fortunately there's a handy website tool for repairing the GPS track so that segments are recovered:

    http://strava-tools.raceshape.com/snap/

    You first make the broken ride public on Strava, copy the URL of the ride into the raceshape webpage and then using the blue sliders select just the part of ride where the GPS track has gone wrong.

    Once you have the correct bit selected and repaired download the .tcx file that is created and manually upload this .tcx file back into Strava from your computer. It seemed to work quite well, adjusting the route for the Strava segment and keeping the rest of the ride information, including the power data, intact.



    I improved 2 seconds on my personal best for this climb compared to my best time from 2014 so that was good.

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    Great Write up!

  49. #49
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    I was amazed to get an email from Training Peaks today. It seems that WKO 4 is finally released and available to buy now!

    https://home.trainingpeaks.com/blog/...o4-has-arrived

    http://home.trainingpeaks.com/produc..._campaign=wko4

    $179 USD as a new install and $129 USD as an upgrade from WKO+ 3.0

    The only version listed is for Mac but if they've got to this stage the PC version can't be that far away.

  50. #50
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    A little off topic but I need to talk to fellow two-wheeled number crunchers. I splurged on some solid tires for training/commuting (Tannus Aither 1.1s in 28 and 23mm). I have a 50 mile commute and glass defeated even the toughest pneumatic tires eventually, including the Schwalbe Marathon Plus.

    On a 10 mile test ride this morning, the watts per mph were pretty high. The ride is actually really nice on the new RLT 9 steel. It would be interesting to compare the watts per mph from a 28mm Aither 1.1 to say, a 40mm Nanoraptor. I'd assumed staying with Roubaix-style tires would be fastest for me since it's mostly road, but when it comes down to the numbers, if a fat tire rolls faster than a solid, it'd be worth it to me.

    What software for power meter?-biggerbikepic-1-.jpg

  51. #51
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    Nice bike!

    Mountain bike tyres typically aren't super puncture resistant. If you were puncturing Schwalbe Marathon Plus tyres WTB Nanoraptors wouldn't stand a chance.

    Alex Simmons made this table showing the main resistances that affect a road bike:



    http://alex-cycle.blogspot.co.uk/201...n-for-mtb.html

    On the flat he estimated it was around 83% air resistance, drivetrain friction 3%, tyre rolling resistance 13%.

    From the comments about Tannus solid tyres here:

    "These performance claims do not add up. Losing 1 km/h (from 30 to 29) means much higher rolling resistance, not "just 2%". Computing for typical commuter weight and aerodrag, I get a rolling resistance increase of about 0.005. This *doubles* the rolling resistance of a good commuter tyre." Bert Yardbrush

    http://road.cc/content/news/141771-t...11-solid-tyres


    When trying to compare one item you really want to keep everything else the same as much as possible. Assuming that you have a spare wheelset I'd be inclined to go out and do a 10 mile ride sticking closely to your commuting power output (eg: steady 200 watts throughout not going flat out). When you get home change the wheels to your spares with standard tyres and do the same 10 mile ride straight away at the same 200 watt power output again (trying to get the same weather conditions both times). That should give a rough idea of the speed differential between the tyres.

    For commuting 50 miles there are a few considerations with your current setup, besides tyres, if you're looking for faster average speeds for the same power output.

    #aeroiseverything.

    There has been some wind tunnel testing of how to carry your gear on the commute.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jfKCZs...J-soSCDKCKR97t

    https://janheine.wordpress.com/2012/...orld-bicycles/

    A set of draft legal aero bars (eg: Vision Mini TT or deda carbon blast) would give you a quicker position without being as cumbersome as full tri bars.



    http://roadcyclinguk.com/news/deda-c...iGQjREpp7lL.97

    Deeper section rims should be quicker. I was going to suggest a rear disc wheel cover but they're not compatible with disc brake hubs.

    You could also make sure your clothing is as aero as possible (eg: Castelli aero jersey or Santini Interactive aero jersey) for a tight fit, along with an aero road helmet.

  52. #52
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    Off topic: What seatbag is that? Looks perfect for commuting.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by zippinveedub View Post
    Off topic: What seatbag is that? Looks perfect for commuting.
    It's a Revelate Designs seatbag. The guys in the Tour Divide use them exclusively, I highly recommend it.

    Thanks as usual to WR304. I am out of shape a bit so I expected to be slow on my commute, but it aint' just me when it's taking 4 hours instead of just under 3! After two 50+ mile rides I would be inclined to believe that the rolling resistance is doubled with the Tannus tires.

    My only hope with fat tires would be that a lower PSI might tend to deform over glass better rather than rigidly resist it. The Nanoraptor is a pretty durable tire with a good center strip which makes it roll pretty fast. Again, one of the preferred tires of the Tour Divide.

    I'm a little at a loss now. Once I get in better shape I'll pick up the speed, but I'd say that as a quick review of the Tannus 1.1s: they're the perfect trainer tire for sure. No need to fill them up, and you can simply lower the resistance on the trainer to compensate. I think they're terrific "coffee shop" tires too. For casual rides of 10 miles or less, just pick up the bike and go. For serious training, well, just train by yourself because you'll get dropped otherwise

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by chomxxo View Post
    Thanks as usual to WR304. I am out of shape a bit so I expected to be slow on my commute, but it aint' just me when it's taking 4 hours instead of just under 3! After two 50+ mile rides I would be inclined to believe that the rolling resistance is doubled with the Tannus tires.
    As you've got a Garmin and power meter on the bike you can go through the power data from a representative commute on standard pneumatic tyres and compare that to a commute on solid tyres. By doing that it should give an idea of how the different rides compare, to decide how much is the tyres and how much is your fitness levels.

    This is a thread about power meter software after all. That's what it's for!

    If you PM me some Strava ride links or .fit file links, one commute on solid tyres and one on standard tyres where the wind direction was about the same, I can download them and have a look if you like.

    In terms of tyres and punctures the problem with glass is that it can slash the tyre open. I've had that happen plenty of times on full MTB tyres on urban cycle paths. Have you tried a road tubeless tyre with sealant inside? That might give you a better balance between rolling speed and puncture resistance?

  55. #55
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    Here are some discussions about WKO 4:

    Slowtwitch triathlon forum

    http://forum.slowtwitch.com/forum/Sl..._4.0_P5625090/

    Google Wattage group (you have to be signed in to view)

    https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!...ge/KJAZgdKgFBk

    Training Peaks WKO 4 tutorial Youtube videos: (this should be the full playlist)

    https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...-jM_bzecPQuAjC

    WKO 4 User Guide and PDF manual:

    http://help.trainingpeaks.com/hc/en-...uideManual.pdf

    http://help.trainingpeaks.com/hc/en-...O4-User-Guides

    With WKO 4 you can add pre made chart packs into the program. These consist of reports that other people have made. There is a list here to look through. They're supposed to be moderated so that there isn't too much duplication.

    http://home.trainingpeaks.com/products/wko4/charts

    Although it's released for Mac the PC version is delayed by another 12 weeks. From reading about the Mac version of WKO 4 there seem to be several bugs and issues with it currently. Hopefully most of these will be fixed by the time the PC version is finally available.

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    Do you think there is a good reason to switch from GC to WKO+4? I'll probably buy it out of curiosity, but I don't see a reason to switch.

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by bloodninja View Post
    Do you think there is a good reason to switch from GC to WKO+4? I'll probably buy it out of curiosity, but I don't see a reason to switch.
    I haven't tried WKO 4 yet as there is another 12 weeks before it comes out on PC. It has potential but my impression is that despite the long delay (it was originally supposed to come out in 2013! ) it's still very much a beta product release. From reading the discussions and watching the videos I think that extra wait might be a good thing. WKO 4 seems to be unfinished with lots of bugs and missing features at the moment.

    It depends upon how much support it gets in the long run too. WKO+ 3.0 was released by Training Peaks and then promptly abandoned, instead of continuing to be developed. If they do that with WKO 4 it might never work properly.

    Golden Cheetah is a program that I try out from time to time, every year or so. It's always a work in progress, never finished. I guess you have to make some allowances for it being free but overall I find it clunky and un-intuitive. It takes a lot of digging through menus and googling to work out how some parts can be customised.

    The current version (Golden Cheetah 3.20 RC3) has a much better graph section than it used to. You can finally adjust the scales on the graphs which used to be one of my major dislikes. It's not perfect but a lot better than the older versions.

    The diary and summary section of Golden Cheetah 3.20 RC3 is still all over the place though. It's little things like having Normalized Power in the diary but then xPower in the ride summaries, and no obvious option to add Normalized Power instead, that I don't like.

    Post to be finished later.

    Stationary Time
    One thing to be aware of with Golden Cheetah and any other power meter analysis software is stationary time. The average power calculation includes the times when you are freewheeling at 0 watts.

    Stationary time is simply the time during a ride that you spend stationary at 0 mph and 0 watts. If you never stopped then there would be no stationary time and this wouldn't matter. A typical outdoors training ride is likely to almost always include some stationary time. Some reasons being stopping to open and close gates offroad, waiting for your friends, on the road you have junctions, traffic lights etc. It happens.

    When an original Garmin .fit ride file is first imported into a program or website the program will usually attempt to identify stationary time within the file automatically. Different programs and websites will then treat this stationary time very differently however, sometimes it is excluded from calculations and sometimes it is included. This can result in wildly varying results for exactly the same ride in different programs.

    I did the Friday evening shop ride today which is a nice example. It was quite a hard ride for me (everyone else decided to have a social ride and left me sat on the front in the wind for most of the route. ) but there were also frequent stops to regroup. This means that there was some stationary time in the ride. In a 2 hour ride around 8 minutes was spent stationary.

    There are three programs that I use mainly. Strava, rubiTrack for IOS and WKO+ 3.0. Here is the same summary in each program:

    Strava
    Here is the summary of the evening ride from today on Strava:



    Strava excludes stationary time and uses moving time to calculate both average power and average speed for the overall ride summary. For manual laps and Strava segments it calculates average power excluding stationary time but calculates average speed including stationary time.

    rubiTrack for IOS
    Here is the summary of the same evening ride in rubiTrack for IOS on my iPad. I have it set so that rubiTrack excludes stationary time and uses moving time to calculate both average power and average speed for the overall ride summary and laps. Average power is 178 watts and average speed is 16.3mph so that is close to Strava and the WKO+ 3.0 edited file.



    WKO+ 3.0
    This is the main program that I use. When you import a new Garmin .fit file it will include stationary time and use total time to calculate both average power and average speed for the overall ride summary and any laps.

    I manually edit the files (by using Edit - Cut) to remove the stationary time from the file. Once this is done WKO+ 3.0 excludes stationary time and uses moving time to calculate both average power and average speed for the overall ride summary and any laps. The total time and moving time are displayed side by side for each lap.



    I can open the same ride in all three places and be fairly happy that the summaries are close, whichever program I use. They will never be exact (due to how stationary time is identified in different programs) but I know that I'm consistently looking at summaries where average speed and average power have both been calculated on the same basis.

    Golden Cheetah
    Here's where it gets a bit different. With the three programs above their summaries are consistent. If they exclude stationary time then that is the same for both average speed and average power. So what happens when you import a new Garmin .fit file into Golden Cheetah?



    If you do nothing to the file then it looks like this by default. Average speed is calculated excluding stationary time, but then average power is calculated including stationary time. This is an important point because if you only look at Golden Cheetah for your rides, and don't take this into account, it will skew any conclusions you arrive at, along with affecting all your monthly summaries. This should really be a case of either / or. Average speed and average power should both be calculated on the same basis.

    bloodninja pointed out that it is possible to manually remove the stationary time in Golden Cheetah using the edit function. In order to do this go to the Edit tab. This shows the raw data in columns. Where you can see sections that have zero speed this needs to be removed, in order to correct the average power calculation. Left click on the sample number (the column furthest to the left), hold down the left mouse and drag down until all the stationary time at that point is selected. I recommend leaving one second at the beginning and end of each section.

    Right click on one of the highlighted sample numbers and select Delete Row from the menu. This removes the stationary time. Repeat for the entire file and then click save.



    Once you have saved the file you can now return to the summary page for the ride. Average speed and average power are both now calculated excluding stationary time so your file will be consistent with other programs such as Strava.

    Last edited by WR304; 07-31-2015 at 04:07 PM.

  58. #58
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    I've been using GC for four months now, and once I figured out things like showing NP and TSS in the ride summaries (it's definitely not intuitive) I find it very powerful and easy to use. I think that the W'bal model is already very useful, and will get much better as it is researched further.

    I think you can make a very good case for not excluding time not moving in summary metrics. I wouldn't call it a bug. If you ride for 300W for two minutes and then stop for five minutes, repeat 30 times, is it the same as riding 300W for an hour? Of course it's an extreme example, but the idea is the same. Stopping and counting the time also artifcially inflates TSS.

    If I'm going to stop for more than just a few minutes, I create two separate activities. Another thing you can do is go to the Edit tab and delete the rows of all zeroes. That's what I do when I forget to stop recording at the end of a ride immediately, so that my TSS isn't inflated.

  59. #59
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    Deleting entire rows works. The lap time is a bit odd but it sorts out the average power. Thanks for that.

    I'll rewrite the last part of that post a bit later when I have time.

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by bloodninja View Post
    I've been using GC for four months now, and once I figured out things like showing NP and TSS in the ride summaries (it's definitely not intuitive) I find it very powerful and easy to use. I think that the W'bal model is already very useful, and will get much better as it is researched further.
    How do you do this in Golden Cheetah?

    I want to remove xPower from Rides - Summary - Metrics for individual rides and also Diary - Calendar - Monthly Summary altogether. I then want to add Normalized Power and TSS to Rides - Summary - Metrics for both individual rides and also Diary - Calendar - Monthly Summary.

    It can't be just me who would find it useful to know how to make these changes.

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by WR304 View Post
    How do you do this in Golden Cheetah?

    I want to remove xPower from Rides - Summary - Metrics for individual rides and also Diary - Calendar - Monthly Summary altogether. I then want to add Normalized Power and TSS to Rides - Summary - Metrics for both individual rides and also Diary - Calendar - Monthly Summary.

    It can't be just me who would find it useful to know how to make these changes.
    Sorry it took a while to get back to you. I couldn't remember without opening GC, and I wasn't on the PC at all this weekend.

    To add NP to ride and diary summaries go to tools-->options-->metrics, then go to the summary tab and you can add or remove whichever metrics you like. The same goes for intervals and bests.

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by bloodninja View Post
    Sorry it took a while to get back to you. I couldn't remember without opening GC, and I wasn't on the PC at all this weekend.

    To add NP to ride and diary summaries go to tools-->options-->metrics, then go to the summary tab and you can add or remove whichever metrics you like. The same goes for intervals and bests.
    I kept looking in Tools - Options - Data Fields for some reason. It doesn't help that in the metrics screen they have used the abbreviations.

    Golden Cheetah Options
    For anyone starting from a fresh Golden Cheetah there are quite a few alterations to make from default.

    A short list of how to do these and some suggestions:

    Change between Metric and Imperial measurements: Tools - Options - Athlete - Unit

    Change the colour of the graph selection area: Tools - Options - Appearance - Colors tab - Interval Highlighter (I'd change this one to black so that you can see what you have selected without an overlaid colour)

    Choose your own ride summary items: Tools - Options - Metrics - Summary tab - remove the existing items and then add the items you want to see onto the right hand screen. A couple to have:


    NP (Normalized Power
    TSS (Training Stress Score)
    IF (Intensity Factor)
    Watts Per Kilogram

    Choose your own Interval selection items: Tools - Options - Metrics - Interval tab remove the existing items and then add the items you want to see onto the right hand screen. A couple to have:

    Duration
    Distance
    Work
    Average Speed
    Average Cadence
    Gradient
    Average Power
    Max Power
    NP (Normalized Power)
    TSS (Training Stress Score)
    IF (Intensity Factor)



    Ride Graph

    On the Ride graph screen when you move the mouse up towards the top of the graph there is an options menu in the top left corner of the graph. If you move the mouse straight up a smoothing option appears. There is a slider but also a small box with a number in. This box lists how much smoothing is applied (in seconds). With power data adding more smoothing can make trends clearer. You can type a smoothing number into this box that goes beyond the range of just the slider. If you want a graph with 1 second smoothing for example you would type "1" into the box. If you wanted 30 second smoothing you would type "30" into the box. For long rides and overviews I like to look at rides with 5 minute smoothing. In Golden Cheetah you would type "300" into the box (five minutes in seconds).



    By default you get lots of different traces displayed. To make it easier to see what is going on I would normally remove any items that are getting in the way. Here is a screen showing the chart settings with just Power, Speed and Altitude displayed.



    In order to zoom a particular trace right click on the Y axis of the trace (eg: yellow power) and two white sliders will appear. Drag them to zoom in or out. You can do this for each individual trace.

    In order to add a line to the graph double left click on the Y axis of the trace (eg: yellow power), Type in the value where you want the line to appear. I often put a line for the average power.

    In order to zoom in either select an Interval on the left hand bar - Right Click and select Zoom to Interval or use the sliders below the Full Plot at the bottom of the screen and drag them to the area you are interested in.

    Here is a before and after screenshot. This is my ride from last Friday as an overview.

    This picture shows how the graph looks if you have no smoothing and all traces on. It's a mess.



    Here's an after picture. I have changed the smoothing to 300 seconds, removed all traces apart from Speed, Power and Altitude and added a dotted line at 178 watts average power.



    Along with being cleaner to look at you can now see the trends and patterns during the ride. The yellow power output is low for the first hour, well below the dotted line (where I was just getting warmed up). After that you can see how the power output is much higher than the dotted line (riding with the group and trying hard). Near the end you can see how the power output is lower again (as I rode home by myself afterwards.

  63. #63
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    I have a question on GC. On the summary page of a ride there is a metrics section that GC predicts your ftp and pmax. Most of the time this section does not have any numbers for me. But if I go a few days back it will have numbers. How do you refresh this section for a new ride? I tried right clicking and choosing reload or is it refresh but that does nothing...

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by rupps5 View Post
    I have a question on GC. On the summary page of a ride there is a metrics section that GC predicts your ftp and pmax. Most of the time this section does not have any numbers for me. But if I go a few days back it will have numbers. How do you refresh this section for a new ride? I tried right clicking and choosing reload or is it refresh but that does nothing...
    This is the same for me too. On the same day that you upload the ride the Model section of the summary (W', CP, P-max) doesn't update. When you check the same file the following day the Model section is now updated.

    If you import an old ride file with a much earlier date, close the program and then re-open it the Model section will be updated with values for the old file straight away. I think it's something to do with the dates that it doesn't include the current day?

    On the subject of models in Golden Cheetah the program seems to think I'm sandbagging when it comes to short efforts. Its prediction is 857 watts for 15 seconds. My actual best is 422 watts for 15 seconds. (It would probably be closer if I didn't have a bad left leg, which is why my actual short duration power outputs are so low).


  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by WR304 View Post
    On the subject of models in Golden Cheetah the program seems to think I'm sandbagging when it comes to short efforts. Its prediction is 857 watts for 15 seconds. My actual best is 422 watts for 15 seconds. (It would probably be closer if I didn't have a bad left leg, which is why my actual short duration power outputs are so low).
    The two-parameter model is always going to overpredict short efforts since it assumes that as time approaches zero, power approaches infinity. And of course your bad leg doesn't help either. The three-parameter or extended model should give a better fit for short durations.

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by WR304 View Post
    This is the same for me too. On the same day that you upload the ride the Model section of the summary (W', CP, P-max) doesn't update. When you check the same file the following day the Model section is now updated.

    If you import an old ride file with a much earlier date, close the program and then re-open it the Model section will be updated with values for the old file straight away. I think it's something to do with the dates that it doesn't include the current day?
    It just goes to show. I imported today's ride file into Golden Cheetah and it promptly updated the Model section of the summary straight away, although it didn't work a few days ago in the same version of Golden Cheetah.

    Quote Originally Posted by bloodninja
    The two-parameter model is always going to overpredict short efforts since it assumes that as time approaches zero, power approaches infinity. And of course your bad leg doesn't help either. The three-parameter or extended model should give a better fit for short durations.
    The three parameter option in Golden Cheetah (Entire Year selected) actually goes the other way. It underestimates my short term power output compared to the files that I have imported into Golden Cheetah.



    I've been doing the shop ride most Friday's and I did manage to put out my best 15 seconds power of the year today: 15 seconds at 492 watts/ 7.3w/kg.

    Something that I like to do as a quick check is to look at my ride power curve against the curve of my best power outputs of the year. If I'm going well and it has been a hard ride the power curve should be fairly close to my 2015 power bests. If it's been a hard ride but my power curve is a lot lower than my power bests that could possibly be a sign that I'm getting too tired.

    These pictures are from Strava but you can do the same in Golden Cheetah etc too.

    This is the power curve from my ride on 28 July 2015. It was quite a hard group ride but I had no pace at all. Everyone was simply riding away from me. I eventually rode home by myself as I couldn't even keep up. You can see from the power curve that I was nowhere near my best on that day. The power curve is a lot lower than I would expect. My best 5 minute power on 28 July 2015 was 218 watts. Compare that to my best 5 minute power of the year (313 watts for 5 minutes) and it's almost 100 watts lower!



    This is the power curve from my ride today on 07 August 2015. This was also quite a hard group ride. Between 28 July 2015 and today I had 9 days of mostly recovery rides and days with no riding to try and get rid of some of the accumulated fatigue. You can see straight away from the power curve that I was going better today. My best power outputs are closer to my best 2015 power outputs across the entire curve. I even set a personal best for 15 seconds. My best 5 minute power on 07 August 2015 was 281 watts. That was still a way off my best 5 minute power of the year (313 watts for 5 minutes) but definitely headed in the right duration.


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    Here's mine with the 2p model. It breaks down around 30 seconds.

    What software for power meter?-john-cp.jpg

  68. #68
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    Dcrainmaker has an article looking at WKO 4:

    http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2015/08/w...analytics.html

    The comment about the PC version of WKO 4 coming out before the end of 2015 makes it sound like the PC version might be delayed even longer than the 12 weeks Training Peaks were saying a few weeks ago.

  69. #69
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    Does anyone know how to add your best power outputs at longer durations to the ride summary in Golden Cheetah? Two hours, three hours, four hours etc?

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    Quote Originally Posted by WR304 View Post
    Does anyone know how to add your best power outputs at longer durations to the ride summary in Golden Cheetah? Two hours, three hours, four hours etc?
    Hmm, I'm not sure if it's possible to add to the ride summary. I'll try to remember to take a look this evening.

    Did you know v 3.3 was released last week? The backup feature and ability to set CP and FTP separately were added, among other things.

  71. #71
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    The Golden Cheetah Critical Mean Maximal chart lets you read off the values. The default has lots of extra lines however so isn't that clear.

    Here's how to add a cleaner chart that is less busy.



    Click on the small 3 bar icon at the top right of the page to Add Chart - Critical Mean Maximals.

    Move your mouse to the top left of the page and click on More - All Chart Settings.



    Change the settings to the ones pictured -

    Date range (All Dates),
    Data Series - Power
    Show Bests - ticked,
    Current Activity - Activity Mean Max

    On the next tab set Model to None also.

    The settings pictured will now show you just two lines on screen. One is your best power from all rides for a duration and one is your best power for the individual ride. Move your mouse cursor over the line and the value at that point will be displayed.

  72. #72
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    It took a long time but WKO 4 for PC has finally been released!

    http://home.trainingpeaks.com/wko4/downloadtrial

    There's a 14 day free trial version.

  73. #73
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    The main problem with WKO 4 is that it's slow. Whenever I click on a report it just seems to end up sitting there with a spinning circle on screen.

    This is supposed to be loading the Performance Management Chart (it did load after a few minutes)



    The computer that I'm running WKO 4 on has an Intel Core i7 3770 CPU, 16gb of RAM, AMD Radeon R9 290 graphics card and a Samsung 840 Pro SSD hard drive. That isn't the newest hardware but it still ought to be more than enough for this.

    Along with the slowness there are lots of bugs, graphical bugs, crashing bugs you name it.

    The reports you can create are nice but the wait times are just ridiculous.

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    ^^^
    Do you have Golden Cheetah on same computer? If so,
    Does GC run "normal"?

  75. #75
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    Golden Cheetah on the same computer is smooth throughout, as is WKO+ 3.0. There's no waiting.

    In WKO 4 switching between screens, clicking on items (eg: laps), and pages that are just text seems fine.

    Whenever you try and view any of the visual charts, where the program has to lookup data and create an updated chart (eg: Performance Management Chart, Quadrant Analysis, smoothing on a ride graph) is where it grinds to a halt.

    You can click on other tabs, so it isn't freezing the program, there's just a long wait with a spinning circle in the middle of the screen until the new chart is processed and available to view.

    These pauses happen on both the overall reports (where there are several years of data) but also when looking at a single individual ride file, where there are still frequent pauses and waiting.

  76. #76
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    An update was released for WKO 4 and it was cold wet day so I decided to spend the afternoon trying to get into it a bit more.

    The main selling point of WKO 4 is that it is very customisable, which is a good thing as the stock reports aren't great.

    In order to create your own reports you have to use expressions. If you're familiar with Microsoft Excel formulas and spreadsheets its similar to that. Only the expressions and syntax aren't documented and there are no wizards. There is one incomplete PDF that you can download from Training Peaks but apart from that you're on your own.

    WKO4 Basic Expression Guide ? TrainingPeaks Help Center

    What I ended up doing was loading up reports from the Chart Exchange, looking at what had been used in those charts and then trying to adapt the expressions for what I wanted to do.

    I managed to get a few custom charts working, and the parts of WKO 4 that do work are quite good.



    This is the WKO 4 Performance Management Chart. This is a fairly standard chart but nice and easy to read. It shows my PMC for 2015/2016. I haven't done much to this one, apart from change some colours. You can see from the yellow TSB bars where I was trying hard and where I was recovering in 2015.



    You can have charts linked to the main charts that follow the selection. I have added a few custom summaries. You have a lot of choice as to what you add but it all involves expressions. In this summary I added some extra information - time spent moving, time spent freewheeling and then peak power outputs for longer durations (120 minutes, 180 minutes and 240 minutes).



    This shows a ride with my custom interval screen. The numbers beneath the graph follow the selection, showing the amount of time in Coggan power zone and amount of time pedalling.

    It sounds simple but the difficult bit was working out what expression to use for the zones. I spent ages trying "cogganclassic" which didn't work. I eventually did the same as in the other downloaded charts (sftp*0.75).

    A couple of WKO 4 expressions as examples, all of which would be straightforwards if there was a reference:

    Time spent in Coggan Zone 3:
    sum(if(power>(sftp*0.75) and power<=(sftp*0.90),deltatime))

    Average Cadence excluding zeros:
    avg(nozero(cadence))

    Power trend line:
    slr(power)

    Quadrant Analysis Zone 1:
    sum(if(cpv >= 90*cranklength*pi/30000 and aepf >= sftp/90/pi/cranklength*30000, deltatime, 0))/sum(if(1 or aepf or cpv, deltatime, 0))

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    I recently went with Golden Cheetah - before Strava Premium.
    I was disappointed with SP mostly due to the face that when updating FTP, Strava updated FTP for my entire history of rides, thus effecting it's Performance Management Chart.

    With GC, since no power on my MTB, I have to estimate and enter TSS (in GC=TRIMP) which Strava's Training Load will help - to a point - it is always on low side compared to Garmin TSS

    I was thinking of going with WKO4,,,but my computer was not spec'd for it.
    WR304, Thanks for pointing out how your computers perfromance was affected by it

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    Quote Originally Posted by WR304 View Post
    An update was released for WKO 4 and it was cold wet day so I decided to spend the afternoon trying to get into it a bit more.

    The main selling point of WKO 4 is that it is very customisable, which is a good thing as the stock reports aren't great.

    In order to create your own reports you have to use expressions. If you're familiar with Microsoft Excel formulas and spreadsheets its similar to that. Only the expressions and syntax aren't documented and there are no wizards. There is one incomplete PDF that you can download from Training Peaks but apart from that you're on your own.

    WKO4 Basic Expression Guide ? TrainingPeaks Help Center

    What I ended up doing was loading up reports from the Chart Exchange, looking at what had been used in those charts and then trying to adapt the expressions for what I wanted to do.

    I managed to get a few custom charts working, and the parts of WKO 4 that do work are quite good.



    This is the WKO 4 Performance Management Chart. This is a fairly standard chart but nice and easy to read. It shows my PMC for 2015/2016. I haven't done much to this one, apart from change some colours. You can see from the yellow TSB bars where I was trying hard and where I was recovering in 2015.



    You can have charts linked to the main charts that follow the selection. I have added a few custom summaries. You have a lot of choice as to what you add but it all involves expressions. In this summary I added some extra information - time spent moving, time spent freewheeling and then peak power outputs for longer durations (120 minutes, 180 minutes and 240 minutes).



    This shows a ride with my custom interval screen. The numbers beneath the graph follow the selection, showing the amount of time in Coggan power zone and amount of time pedalling.

    It sounds simple but the difficult bit was working out what expression to use for the zones. I spent ages trying "cogganclassic" which didn't work. I eventually did the same as in the other downloaded charts (sftp*0.75).

    A couple of WKO 4 expressions as examples, all of which would be straightforwards if there was a reference:

    Time spent in Coggan Zone 3:
    sum(if(power>(sftp*0.75) and power<=(sftp*0.90),deltatime))

    Average Cadence excluding zeros:
    avg(nozero(cadence))

    Power trend line:
    slr(power)

    Quadrant Analysis Zone 1:
    sum(if(cpv >= 90*cranklength*pi/30000 and aepf >= sftp/90/pi/cranklength*30000, deltatime, 0))/sum(if(1 or aepf or cpv, deltatime, 0))
    Agreed, the .pdf is incomplete/outdated in a few places.

    This page has more/better information:

    Home

    If you come up with any really cool charts (which you seem quite capable of doing!) that you'd like to share with the world at large, you can email them to tim@wko4.com and he can get them up on the Chart Exchange.

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by twobigwheels View Post
    I was thinking of going with WKO4,,,but my computer was not spec'd for it.
    WR304, Thanks for pointing out how your computers perfromance was affected by it
    WKO 4 is a little better with the latest update (Build 247). Hopefully it will get more patches to make it more responsive.

    The really strong part of WKO 4 is the reporting. Being able to collate information from multiple files in the layout of your choice is its strength.

    For example I can look at a report screen for this week and see this information:

    Week Beginning 08 February 2016

    Total Moving Time: 17:40:32
    Time Pedalling: 16:33:45
    Time Freewheeling 1:06:47
    Freewheeling: 6.30%

    Peak 20min: 217 watts
    Peak 60min: 199 watts
    Peak 120min: 188 watts
    Peak 180min: 175 watts
    Peak 240min: 174 watts

    That sounds straightforward but pulling those numbers together for a full week (or your chosen time period) on one screen in an easy to read text format (without needing to read off any power curves or dig through individual files) is actually a big improvement.

    At the moment some features are missing though. A lot of the basic graph functionality when looking at individual workouts in detail, that was present in WKO+ 3.0, is missing in WKO 4. Even things like being able to add notes to a workout and export data to the clipboard don't work. There is a smoothing slider in WKO 4 but it doesn't say how much smoothing is actually being applied. There's no elevation correction (if your Garmin's barometric altimeter goes wrong in wet weather and the altitude trace needs fixing) etc.

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Coggan View Post
    Agreed, the .pdf is incomplete/outdated in a few places.

    This page has more/better information:

    Home

    If you come up with any really cool charts (which you seem quite capable of doing!) that you'd like to share with the world at large, you can email them to tim@wko4.com and he can get them up on the Chart Exchange.
    Thanks for the link. That's very helpful.

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    After playing with Golden Cheetah for a couple of days now,,,

    I am trying to figure out how to incorporate HR only rides (MTB) and manual entry (weight training)*into a PMC.

    My one big reason for going with GC was wanting a more accurate PMC than Strava (when you change FTP, it affects all past Strava rides).

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    Quote Originally Posted by twobigwheels View Post
    After playing with Golden Cheetah for a couple of days now,,,

    I am trying to figure out how to incorporate HR only rides (MTB) and manual entry (weight training)*into a PMC.

    My one big reason for going with GC was wanting a more accurate PMC than Strava (when you change FTP, it affects all past Strava rides).
    GC can estimate stress but only if you create a manual entry (i.e. no power file with HR data).

    It doesn't have a way of estimating stress based off HR in a power file like TrainingPeaks does with hrTSS. It can estimate power values based on speed/elevation/weight etc (sort of like how Strava does it) but that sounds a bit experimental. Your best bet would be just to estimate stress based off your experience with similar rides.

  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by twobigwheels View Post
    I am trying to figure out how to incorporate HR only rides (MTB)
    Estimating Training Stress Score (TSS) | TrainingPeaks

    But weight training into am PMC?

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    Quote Originally Posted by quax View Post
    Good stuff!

    My problem is, being new to GC is figuring out how to "create" ride to enter data. One of the drawbacks for GC, is that with it being freeware, is the support network isn't as strong (as I am guessing WKO is). You can search the web or post on Google GC, but answers sometimes aren't specific or they are very short (like you are familiar with GC already). Plus, some (most?) terminology is different from Strava, WKO and GC

    During winter with two workouts a week @ an hour each I would rather enter 100 TSS or so for the week (for EX) than nothing

  85. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by twobigwheels View Post
    how to "create" ride to enter data.
    ???

    you mean entering a workout manually (without importing a file from a device)??

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    Yes

    I know it seems simple, I think I have it, but still have to update views to make sure I entered data correctly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WR304 View Post
    WKO 4 is a little better with the latest update (Build 247). Hopefully it will get more patches to make it more responsive.
    How are you on build 247? (beta?) I believe I'm on 204 and checked for updates, it says I'm up to date.

    As always - I appreciate your detailed posts, I try to pick up as much from your file analysis as possible. Are you a coach or a very well informed athlete?

    Thanks!

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    Quote Originally Posted by guyc View Post
    GC can estimate stress but only if you create a manual entry (i.e. no power file with HR data).

    It doesn't have a way of estimating stress based off HR in a power file like TrainingPeaks does with hrTSS. It can estimate power values based on speed/elevation/weight etc (sort of like how Strava does it) but that sounds a bit experimental. Your best bet would be just to estimate stress based off your experience with similar rides.
    GC calculates TRIMP for every ride. If you want your PMC to be HR based, which is a good thing to at least monitor if you're mixing road and MTB, just go to your PMC, then chart settings --> Presets and choose PMC (TRIMP). It's that easy if you want a HR based PMC.

  89. #89
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    One of my friend's rode the 2016 Perfs Pedal Road race in Hampshire on Sunday. Here's how I marked up the basic race power file in WKO 4.

    The chart pack used here is based on the "Horizontal Cycling Interval Review Pack" with a few changes.

    Race report and pictures:

    Feature – Perfs Pedal Road Race | velouk.net

    When first imported there weren't any laps entered in the power file.



    The first thing to do with a race file is look at it and try to identify where the laps begin and end. If the altitude profile repeats that's an indication. I knew the actual race was five laps of a circuit, and then a finishing route that ended on a short rise.



    In WKO 4 there is also a map. With the graph view open above, and the map view below it, the line on the map will change depending upon what is selected on the graph. Holding down the left mouse button and dragging on the graph will let you select an individual lap of the race.

    Once you have the selection made single left click where it says "Selection" on the graph view. Click on Save Selection and rename it. Here I've used First lap, Second lap, Third lap etc. You repeat this process for each race lap, or section that you are interested in.



    Now that the individual laps are created it's possible to look at the details. On the lower line of the screen I changed from the Map to the Interval Detail screen, where the specifics of each lap appear when the lap is selected from the list on the right. These can be clicked through in turn.

    I wanted to create a summary of all the laps. You can select multiple laps and have their details all listed below one another on the Interval Detail screen. If you create a selection scroll down and its information will be beneath the named lap on the lower line. As I wanted to create a summary, and there's no built in export as yet, I copy pasted the text into Microsoft Excel. Left click and drag to select the interval detail text in WKO 4 and you can then right click, copy and paste it into a spreadsheet.





    From the raw text I tidied it up and removed some fields. I also added a few yellow highlights on what I thought were key numbers.

    After a steady first lap the race was blown apart on lap 2. My friend missed the lead break and was in the second chase group. If you look at the lap summary you can see how laps 2 and 3 were the hardest of the entire race for him. He averaged 263 watts with a normalized power of 307 watts for lap 2, and then averaged 274 watts with a normalized power of 307 watts for lap 3. After this the next two laps were still hard but at a slightly lower intensity, before the pace lifted again for the final 5 miles to the finish.

    The final five miles were hard, the race finishing up a short rise. I highlighted two numbers here, his heart rate and his cadence. Although his power output wasn't the highest of the race (being higher earlier on during laps 2 and 3) his heart rate was at its highest at the end, reaching 182bpm on the final rise to the line.

    When you look at the cadence for the race there is a pattern. When trying very hard he is pedalling faster to generate more power. On the steady first lap he had an average cadence of 92rpm, but then you can see that on lap 3 he had an average cadence of 97rpm, and the finishing route was at an average cadence of 98rpm. The slightly easier laps 3 and 4 in contrast are at a cadence of 94rpm.

    Pedalling at a high cadence works in the short term and is good for explosive efforts but it can wear you out quickly. It's going to see you burning through matches and energy. Over longer races in particular making a conscious effort to push a bigger gear at non critical moments can be efficient, so that you're saving those fast high revving efforts for when they count. His best 28 second power in the race was 543 watts, 133 watts more than the final sprint, showing that he was tiring towards the end.

    Although when training you want to be pedalling as much as possible when it comes to road racing energy conservation is important. The more you can follow wheels, soft pedal or freewheel in a group the better. On the first lap he spent 22.66% of the time freewheeling, but that dropped to around 12% or so on the later laps. In a small group it can be tricky, as it's harder to skip turns without it being noticed. The main thing to avoid is unnecessarily towing others round until they jump past you at the end if at all possible.

    The finishing climb was one part of the race I wanted to look at in more detail. What happened?



    This graph is zoomed in on the final few minutes of the race. There is a short rise, a slight flat section and then a steeper rise to the finish line. The initial short rise is steady, then there's a lull and a drop in speed. This was most likely tactical, everyone waiting for a move to come. You can see from the sudden spike of power to 548 watts that someone attacked and it is swiftly chased down. They regroup and then the final sprint up the rise to the finish line begins.

    From the power output it becomes apparent that this was one final sprint too far. After 28 seconds at 410 watts average power my friend cracked. I've added some red arrows showing how his cadence, speed and power all drop together. He couldn't stay on top of the gear, dropping from 109rpm cadence all the way down to 82rpm cadence. He then appears to have sat up and rolled into the finish.

    Update
    I heard from my friend about how his race went. It explains the high power outputs, and why there wasn't much in the way of freewheeling after Lap 1:

    "I ended up doing too much work because I thought that we were in a second group (30 riders) and didn't want to be caught from behind and only 6 of us were taking turns on the front. Turns outs the group behind us were out of contention. Ended up using up all my energy before the final climb and legs cramped/gave up."

    WKO 4 Graph Bugs
    There are a few bugs to be aware of with the graph mode in WKO 4 currently. The cadence per lap displayed on the right hand built in lap summary is including zeroes in its calculation, making it read artificially low (cadence would normally be looked at excluding zeros, power would normally be looked at including zeroes).

    The graph will stop zooming from time to time and disappear off the side of the screen. If this happens, and you have any graph visible, select a small section of graph, to get the Selection option up, and then left click on "Zoom fit all" to get your graph back visible onscreen. If the graph is gone all together switch to a different major chart (on the top line) and then switch back.

    If the graph traces disappear when you mouse off the graph, but the rest of the graph is still there, try using the show hide UI buttons (the three rectangle buttons in the top right corner of the WKO 4 screen). This resets the view so you can see the graph again.
    Last edited by WR304; 02-16-2016 at 11:40 AM.

  90. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattmor View Post
    How are you on build 247? (beta?) I believe I'm on 204 and checked for updates, it says I'm up to date.

    As always - I appreciate your detailed posts, I try to pick up as much from your file analysis as possible. Are you a coach or a very well informed athlete?

    Thanks!
    I'm not a coach.

    WKO 4 updated by itself to build 247. It's the paid for retail version.

  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by WR304 View Post
    I'm not a coach.

    WKO 4 updated by itself to build 247. It's the paid for retail version.
    Weird - I have the paid for mac version - and I'm on 204.

    Guess I should reach out to them to get updated.

  92. #92
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    I've got the PC version of WKO 4. That probably explains why they're on different builds.

    Have you got any keyboard shortcuts in the Mac version? I saw a passing reference to some shortcuts in a Hunter Allen tutorial video but haven't had much luck finding any in the PC version.

  93. #93
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    I updated the post about my friend's road race power outputs as I heard back with some details of how his race went.


    Stationary Time

    Post #57 of this thread is about stationary time in power files, and how the inclusion or exclusion of this can affect the displayed averages in summaries depending which program you are using.

    What software for power meter? - Page 3- Mtbr.com

    I used a .fit file from a ride I did on 31 July 2015. Here is how the ride summary looked in WKO+ 3.0 before and after editing the file manually. You can see how removing stationary time makes a big difference to the average speed and average power totals. Note that the average cadence is excluding zeroes in WKO+ 3.0 by default.



    WKO 4 Expressions and Averages
    In WKO 4 there are set variables that can be used in expressions for each main channel.

    speed
    distance
    power
    heartrate
    cadence

    If you want to display the average of a channel the expression would look like this: avg(speed), avg(power), avg(cadence)

    So far so straightforwards you'd think. These expressions are what is used in a lot of the downloadable charts. There's just one problem.

    For the same unedited .fit file from 31 July 2015, as used in Post #57 with around 8 minutes of stationary time in, here is what the original expressions report if you use them:



    Expression avg(power) = 167 watts (average power includes stationary time)
    Expression avg(cadence) = 83 rpm (average cadence includes zeroes)
    Expression avg(speed) = 15.17 mph (average speed includes stationary time)

    There are two ways around the averages including stationary time. You can manually remove stationary data using the crop tool, as shown in Post #57 for WKO+ 3.0 files, or you can adjust the WKO 4 expressions to display the averages you want, without needing to edit the files by hand. As WKO 4 calculates moving duration automatically you can use this to calculate the averages.

    For time there are multiple time variables to choose from:

    elapsedduration (total time from start to finish)
    duration (total time including stationary time)
    movingduration (total time excluding stationary time)
    pedalingduration (total time that cadence is greater than 0 I think).

    Here is what the same unedited file looks like with some customised expressions in place of the original ones:



    Expression sum(power)/movingduration = 179 watts (average power excludes stationary time)
    Expression avg(nozero(cadence)) = 94 rpm (average cadence excludes zeroes)
    Expression distance/movingduration= 16.33 mph (average speed excludes stationary time)

    This sorts out the averages without editing the file.

    Intensity Factor, Normalized Power, Work and TSS for the unedited file using the basic expressions look ok so they don't appear to need changing.

    WKO 4 Expressions and Text Summary Formatting
    Along with the expressions themselves you also have to format each field. This is what the Configure screen looks like for a field when you are creating a text summary screen.



    There are a few parts to this. At the top you type in your chosen title for the field, below it you enter the expression itself.

    Underneath the expression you have what is termed Y Axis. For a text summary this is actually the units that your field will be displayed in (watts, mph, rpm etc). The way this field operates is a bit odd (bugged). For some variables it may autocomplete but you should be prepared to type the unit in by hand. If you do the drop down you may not see the unit you want. If this happens start typing it and you will get a new set of units appear to choose from!

    You then have what is termed X Axis. For a text summary this lets you choose what line the field will be displayed on. Type in your own word and it will use that to group the fields together. If you type "KPI" for example all the fields with "KPI" will be on one line. If you type "Power" in some other fields they will all be grouped together on a seperate line beneath.

    You then have a choice of decimal places from a drop down. This lets you choose the number of decimal places to be displayed. This field doesn't update automatically for any fields so you must select this by hand every time.

    Below this you have Annotations. This field doesn't do anything in a text summary.

    Configure Screen Bugs
    The important thing to remember with this configuration screen for a text summary field is that it will frequently lose your units, line choice and decimal places. Currently the safest way to use it is to add your expression, make the changes, close it, and then go back to the screen again immediately afterwards.

  94. #94
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    If you use a Garmin head unit one of the options is that you can have auto pause enabled or disabled. Auto pause is when the Garmin automatically stops recording if your speed drops below a certain speed (3mph by default). When the Garmin detects that your speed is above 3mph again it will automatically begin recording again.

    Auto Pause Enabled
    When you import a Garmin .fit file that has auto pause enabled into WKO 4 the stationary time isn't included in the file, so doesn't count against the average power and speed. If you're using auto pause then the expressions avg(power) and avg(speed) will be about right for your ride files, as the stationary time is being excluded from the calculation.

    Here is a WKO 4 graph of starting and stopping with auto pause enabled.



    You can see that the recording stops when the speed drops below 3mph, not completely stationary. There is then a blank space, with no traces. When the rider sets off the recording begins again, but it isn't instant. There is a 3 second lag between setting off and the recording picking up. You can see in this graph that the initial power effort is missing. The rider was already up to 619 watts by that time.

    Auto Pause Disabled
    When you import a Garmin .fit file that has auto pause disabled into WKO 4 the stationary time will be recorded and count against the average power and speed. If you have auto pause disabled then the expressions avg(power) and avg(speed) will be wrong for your ride files, as the stationary time is being included in the calculation. The expressions in my previous post are needed. I have auto pause disabled on my rides, which is why this shows up.

    Here is a WKO 4 graph of starting and stopping with auto pause disabled.



    There are several advantages to having auto pause disabled. One is that you have a complete file of your ride. In this graph the full recording is there. You can see the bike rolling to a full stop. There is then a flat line, with the traces continuing to record throughout. When the rider sets off you can see in detail how their power output picks up, there are most likely some gear changes and there is a rapid increase in power to 370 watts.

    For mountain biking in particular Garmin auto pause can be problematic. As the Garmin relies on a good GPS signal to record your speed if you go riding at low speeds in woodland for example, where the GPS signal may be poor, the Garmin can falsely register that you have gone below 3mph. It will then stop recording, so that when you come to look at the file entire sections and distance are missing.

    There have also been well documented bugs with auto pause, sensor dropouts in some Garmin units. Auto features are often a Garmin problem area! Have a look through this thread about the Garmin Edge 510 as an example of what can happen:

    https://forums.garmin.com/showthread...-Autopause-Bug

    .

  95. #95
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    One bad bug in WKO 4 build 247, that doesn't have an obvious workaround, is the power distribution for a ride.

    Expression bin(power,10)

    What this should do is show you the power distribution in 10 watt blocks. The chart should follow your selection, displaying the exact amount of time for an individual lap or selection of the ride. It works for the entire ride but is completely broken when it comes to individual laps.



    In this picture of yesterday's ride I was doing 4 x 9 minute under over intervals. The ride is marked up so that each individual 9 minute interval is identified.

    When I click on a 9 minute interval, which should show the time spent at each wattage during just this 9 minutes section of riding however the power distribution shows that I spent 55 minutes 22 seconds between 200 and 210 watts! The total time for this entire power distribution should only come to 9 minutes.

    The same thing happens with the time in zone charts too (although it does work as text summary for some reason).

  96. #96
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    These pictures are based on the "Pedaling Metrics Review Pack" with a few changes.

    Several of my friends have Powertap P1 pedals. This power meter records true Left/ Right power balance, so that you can see which leg is doing more work. Some people are more symmetrical than others. There can also be changes in balance during a ride. Factors such as changes in cadence, changes in intensity, whether it is flat or a climb etc can all make a difference.

    Although the Powertap P1 pedals can theoretically record far more detailed metrics, when used with a Garmin head unit only Left / Right power balance is saved in the .fit file. WKO 4 is able to look at the pedalling metrics but they aren't saved unfortunately. The Zorro chart and Gross Power Review Chart don't have any information in. You'd need some Garmin Vector pedals for those metrics to be saved in the .fit file.

    This picture shows one of my friend's Left / Right power balance when riding (recorded with Powertap P1 pedals).



    You can see the two lines that identify the Left leg and Right leg contribution. When zooming in and making selections I'd try and avoid any freewheeling sections, stick to pedalling. This rider typically has quite an even power contribution. It's usually around 50/50 balance throughout his rides.

    This picture shows a different friend's power balance (recorded with Powertap P1 pedals).



    This section of ride was on a climb. He's climbing at a cadence of around 70rpm and an average power of 316 watts (look at the selection numbers at the bottom of the picture). He has a power balance of 48% Left leg (152 watts) / 52% Right leg (164 watts) so his Right leg is contributing 12 watts more than the Left leg on this climb.

    When you look at other parts of the same ride this isn't a constant pattern however. On the flat sections his power balance switches around, so that he has a Left leg bias on the flat, and then a Right leg bias on the hills at high intensity!

  97. #97
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    Where WKO 4 works really well is for the big picture view.

    One of my favourite charts in WKO+ 3.0 was a power bests chart. Listing my top 10 best power outputs for different durations, 5 seconds, 30 seconds, 1 minute etc. It was good for seeing where in the year I had best form.

    It's possible to make the same chart in WKO 4 too, only better.



    Here I have two graphs showing. The upper graph is my Performance Management Chart for 2010 through to 2016, using all my historic power files. Over multiple years you can see an overview of what I did each year.

    What is the Performance Management Chart? | TrainingPeaks

    The higher the blue line CTL (Cumulative Training Load) the more consecutive riding I was doing.

    The pink line ATL (Acute Training Load) shows where I was doing the hardest rides.

    The yellow TSB (Training Stress Balance) is an estimate of fatigue. You can see how there are long blocks of negative TSB, where I was pushing hard, and then there are sections where the yellow blocks go positive, showing where I was recovering. The large gap between 2012 and 2013 is where I crashed, breaking my leg and seperating my shoulder, leading to a year off the bike with no riding.

    The lower graph shows my power bests at a variety of durations, along with TSB (Training Stress Balance), CTL (Cumulative Training Load) and mFTP (modelled FTP). There are clusters of power bests at particular times of the year. What these represent are where I had my best form, usually around the summer.

    When viewed on a multi year basis these clusters also give an idea of which years I was going best in.

    For years before late 2010 I had no power meter.

    2010 I only got the power meter near the end of the year, and the weather was bad so didn't do many outdoors rides that had power recorded.

    2011 doesn't have that many power bests. I only did 602 hours in 2011 and clearly didn't really have great pace. There are some power bests but fewer than in other years.

    2012 was a good year for power bests, until I crashed in August 2012. I did 456 hours in 8 months and had been doing different training to the year before. There are most of the shorter duration power bests in this year. Some of this is down to my power meter. I had a Powertap disc MTB hub at the time, this read higher than my current power meter, reflected in short power bests that I have been unable to get near since.

    2013 wasn't a good year. I was coming back from injury and my power meter broke, so there is no power data for several months at the end of the year either. I did manage 226 hours in the final few months though, laying the groundwork for 2014.

    2014 was a good year for power bests. I had a Power2Max Classic power meter from this point on. You can see from the cluster of power bests between 20 and 180 minutes that I had a few months of decent form concentrating on medium duration efforts and intervals. There aren't many short duration or longer 240 minute power bests though. I did a full year of riding with 715 hours.

    2015 wasn't bad at all. I was mostly recovered from my crash by this year. In this year I was trying to do more polarized training. My focus was on longer rides for this year also, 4 hours plus. There's not much in the way of short term power bests but this would have to count as my best year since 2012. If you look at the distribution of power bests I was very consistent, rather than a short cluster peak period, as seen in 2014 and 2015, I was setting 240 minute power bests all the way through from March 2015 to September 2015! I did 745 hours riding too. The most for a very long time.

    What you can then do is look back up at the Performance Management Chart to see what combination of intensity and recovery (shown by CTL, TSB and ATL) was most successful for creating power bests.

    Power Bests Expression
    In order to get the power bests for a particular duration you use this expression:

    greatest(meanmax(power,5),10)

    The 5 represents the time duration in seconds. This would show my best 5 second power. If you wanted your best 120 minute power you would put 7200 in there instead. WKO 4 uses seconds for all its time calculations so you need to convert any time period into seconds.

    The 10 is how many power bests are being returned. If I wanted to know what my best 25 power bests for that duration were I would put 25 instead of 10.

    This picture shows the formatting of the expression to have each dot as a circle with a line.



    For the CTL, TSB and mFTP on the lower chart I wanted to be able to read off the values, but didn't want to see the lines. If you change the formatting of these, so that they have small squares, no line and are coloured black you will see the values at the top of the screen, but they don't clutter up what is already quite a busy chart.

    One word of warning with this power bests chart. If you select all your rides WKO 4 will takes ages to create it. Here it had to go through 1,115 ride files and there was a long wait of several minutes.
    Last edited by WR304; 02-20-2016 at 03:08 PM.

  98. #98
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    Along with being able to look at years in a timeline view you can overlay the information. To do this for date ranges you hold down the Shift key, and then Left Click on each range in turn. You can add several ranges.



    In this picture I have added 2014 and 2015. This has created two Mean Maximal power curves. To read off the values you can move the cursor along them. If you want to create your own custom date ranges click on the small + at the bottom of the screen. This allows you to define your own date range.

    This works with most of the charts in WKO 4. Some run into display issues with multiple overlays though. The simplest ones tend to be the easiest to read, just a basic power curve or power distribution, rather than having lots of peak bests and lines added.

    You can use multiple overlays on individual rides also. This is a ride that I did on 04 February 2016, where I did a block of intervals at the beginning of the ride, and then another block at the end of the ride. The format of the ride was based on this GCN video about workouts that you can do as part of longer rides, including some group ride workouts.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RFsiP34UYE

    Interesting article on base training

    One of the workouts they suggest are to do the first 15 minutes of the ride flat out, several hours riding at a steady pace, and then the final 15 minutes of the ride flat out.

    Before the club ride during the 45 minute ride to the meeting point I decided to do 30 minutes of random hard efforts. Either 10 second, 20 second, 30 second sprints or a 2 minute effort at FTP. The rest period between each one was between 10 to 40 seconds, trying to keep it varied, 214 watts average power (228 watts normalized power).

    I then did the club ride until the coffee stop (2 hours), sitting in at the back, 139 watts average power (171 watts normalized power). I left the club at the coffee stop and carried on by myself at a steady Zone 2 endurance pace for another 2 hours, 150 watts average power (162 watts normalized power).

    When I got to around where I thought 30 minutes to home was I then did the 10 second, 20 second, 30 second sprints or a 2 minute effort at FTP efforts again, in a different order. The idea being that I should be carrying some additional fatigue by that point. I wasn't too bad but I had a tailwind at this point so was quicker than I expected. It only took 22 minutes to get home so I didn't do as many efforts as I'd have liked.

    This picture shows the ride in WKO 4.



    The upper graph shows the entire ride. You can see how there are two highlighted sections. The intervals at the start of the ride and the intervals at the end of the ride, which are both selected in the same way as on the date range screen by holding down Shift and Left Clicking on each range that you want to overlay from the range list on the right hand side of the screen. The lower graph is the overlaid Mean Maximal power curve for each set of intervals. This gives an at a glance view of how the power outputs compared.

    The yellow line was at the start of the ride, where I was fresh. The green line was at the end of the ride, with more fatigue. You can see from the two power curves that I was generally putting out higher power outputs during the first intervals whilst fresh. At 2 minutes for example I had a best power output of 260 watts during the first intervals. With the added fatigue of an extra 4 hours 40 minutes riding I could only manage a lower figure of 244 watts for 2 minutes at the end of the ride, shown by the green line.

    If you were doing sets of intervals this is a nice way to look at them. Select each interval as an overlay and see how you did across the duration of each one.

  99. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by WR304 View Post
    One bad bug in WKO 4 build 247, that doesn't have an obvious workaround, is the power distribution for a ride.

    Expression bin(power,10)

    What this should do is show you the power distribution in 10 watt blocks. The chart should follow your selection, displaying the exact amount of time for an individual lap or selection of the ride. It works for the entire ride but is completely broken when it comes to individual laps.
    .
    The latest WKO 4 update today has finally got rid of this bug.

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    I got my mFTP chart in WKO 4 sorted out. To fix it I had to delete all the WKO 4 cache files, which then forced it to recalculate the mFTP numbers properly. The WKO 4 cache files on a Windows computer are by default in a folder here:

    C:\Users\*your name*\Documents\WKO4\*athlete name*\Cache

    You can safely delete the cache file contents without breaking your athlete records fortunately. It's not as bad as WKO 3.0+ where you would sometimes have to create a whole new athlete when it went wrong.

    FTP Testing Chart in WKO 4
    This WKO 4 chart contains all my power data between 01 October 2010 and 13 March 2016. 2,978 hours of riding/ 44,521 miles. I crashed and broke my leg in August 2012 so there was no riding between then and September 2013. I've manually tidied this section of chart to make it easier to follow.



    There are four entries in this chart.

    mFTP - Green (modelled FTP, calculated automatically by WKO 4)
    sFTP - Turquoise (set FTP, the value I entered manually at the time and used for training zones),
    Best 20 Minute Power x0.92 - Pink (an estimate of FTP, note that with x0.92 I'm using 92% of my best 20 minute power, rather than 95% of my best 20 minute power which would give a higher number)
    Best 60 Minute Power - Red (actual FTP)

    2011
    Best mFTP 256 watts
    Best sFTP 243 watts
    Best 20 Min x0.92 236 watts
    Best Peak 60 Min 218 watts

    2012
    Best mFTP 275 watts
    Best sFTP 267 watts
    Best 20 Min x0.92 258 watts
    Best Peak 60 Min 232 watts

    2014
    Best mFTP 264 watts
    Best sFTP 256 watts
    Best 20 Min x0.92 247 watts
    Best Peak 60 Min 227 watts

    2015
    Best mFTP 259 watts
    Best sFTP 240 watts
    Best 20 Min x0.92 238 watts
    Best Peak 60 Min 229 watts



    You can see from the turquoise line of historic sFTP (set FTP) that in past years pre 2015 I've actually used best 20 minutes x0.95 as a basis for setting FTP. I was testing regularly and the steps in the sFTP line are where I updated the figures. This sFTP tracks the mFTP figure quite well. 2015 was a bit different as I was trying to base it more on best 60 minutes.

    Taken together the three lines, mFTP, sFTP (which was mostly best 20 minutes x0.95) and best 20 minutes x0.92 are all higher than what I could really do for 60 minutes by quite a bit.

    When it comes to those 60 minute power numbers (the red line) over the four years they were genuine best efforts, as I would do straight up 1x60 minute sessions flat out regularly. I'm generally relatively strong at efforts in that 5 to 20 minute duration range, meaning that I'm able to deliver a better 20 minute effort than when it comes to 60 minutes.

    The main thing to bear in mind is that although I show this pattern it isn't the same for everybody. If you do a 60 minute test, and then a 20 minute test, it's quite possible that your relationship between the two test results will be different to mine.

    Creating the chart
    If you want to make this chart for your own reports it is based on the "Season Review mFTP vs TL" premade chart in the chart library.

    Expressions:
    mFTP = ftp(meanmax(power),90)
    sFTP = sftp
    Best 20 Min x0.92, 20 bests = (greatest(meanmax(power,1200),20)*0.92)
    Best Peak 60 Min, 20 bests = greatest(meanmax(power,3600),20)
    CTL = tl(ctl,ctlconstant)

    If you want to have values to read off, such as CTL, without cluttering the chart what I have been doing is to change the colour of the line to Black. With the dark scheme this means no line appears on the chart but you can read off values.

    To filter the data by date click on the small + at the bottom right of the screen under ranges. You can then specify your own date range. For this chart I used 01/10/2010 as the starting date and "today" as the end date, so that it will always update with the latest information from now on.
    Last edited by WR304; 03-13-2016 at 02:01 PM.

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