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  1. #1
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    Weight training v endurance

    Hi

    I love to ride 3hr hill rides, downhill tracks, BMX tracks depending on my mood. I also have always done weight training and as i am getting older I am finding that I cant do both anymore .

    If I have done a weight session with deadlifts (recently 3 sets of 10reps of 80kg) my legs dont recover and any cycling within 72hour my legs feel weakened and lacking in energy. Some poeple use weight training to help their cycling, is it possible to train for strength without losing performance? what are the best ways to recover?
    Last edited by drjekyll; 10-02-2009 at 02:49 PM.
    And thats whats happening!

  2. #2
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    Strength and endurance are both important. Train for each at different times of the season. I would strength train in early winter and switch over to more endurance type rides mid to late winter.

    If I still couldn't do both, I'd choose to ride...way more fun than the gym.
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  3. #3
    AZ
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    Weight train with a bit less intensity , should be able to rcover quicker than 3 days IMHO.

  4. #4
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    i lift and ride then when racing season begins i just ride...no lifting.
    I just like riding my mountain bike.

  5. #5
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    We need more information. How old are you? What are your goals? Maybe you're not getting enough sleep or not eating the right foods, drinking enough, etc.
    BMX is a short explosive effort, climbing hills is totally different.You would have to decide what you want to be good at before anyone can give you advice.

  6. #6
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    Racers do lift but after the seasons over and after a break from the sport. Like the previous posts, its a phase in your plan and as winter leaves so do the weights, but I do think still focusing on core strength throughout the season is important. If you want the lift and ride, lower the weight, go for a bit more reps, your first ride after lifting should just be a spin to move the blood and legs (if you wear a racing kit, dont you might feel tempted to go fast) the next ride open it up a bit after your warm up.

  7. #7
    dcb
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    As others have said, it's better to build strength during a time of year when you know you're not going to be riding as much. If you're just concerned with strength maintenance, then you can reduce the frequency and volume of your training and keep your strength.

    For example, you said you deadlifted 80kg X 10 reps for 3 sets. So your total workout volume for this workout was 2400kg. You could keep the same amount of strength by lifting 80kg for 1 or 2 sets of 2-5 reps every 7-10 days. Let's say you lift 80kg X 4 reps for 2 sets. Now your total volume is 640kg, so you've cut your volume by almost 75%. This type of workout would take much less of a toll on your recovery ability.

  8. #8
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    I've been lifting and riding the past month or so.

    The way I do it is to ride and lift the same day. About 1.5-2 hours altogether. 40 min race pace ride, come home, and lift. A lot of my lifting is fairly light and repetitive though (3-4 sets of 20-30: push-ups, abs, lunges, back extensions, rows, calves, curls, overhead press, etc.)

    Ride and lift 3 days a week, with easy spin days in between. Seems to work fine for me.

    I'm just getting myself ready for heavier lifting in Nov and Dec. When heavy lifting most my riding will be Zone 2.
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  9. #9
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    really may be im trying to do too much

    Im 36 years old ive done weight training since aged 15 not with any specific goals but just to build strength. Im my 20's I used to always do something 7 days per week climbing on indoor wall or MTB or weights.The last year I have been doing high intensity weight training 2 days per week to put on some weight currently at 11st 12lb. My goal recently was to get to a lean 12stone and then work hard to get my aerobic fitness up to be able to enjoy biking and undo any damage from recent years smoking and PC use. I have been to BMX tracks to practise jumping and found Im wasted after sprinting/pumping 1 track length. I go on 3 hr epic trail rides and find that on hill climbs my heart/breathing rate is ok but that my legs burn up with lactic and feel progressively weaker resulting in spinning granny gears. Im not training to race or anything but would like to improve my fitness levels. I have a XC loop from my front door I do weekly and its down from 3hr to 2.5hr not noticed any improvements in fitness yet just think is down to being more used to pain and pacing myself. Eat well when at home, sleep is not great ( 3 kids youngest 8 weeks old) min 6 hrs. no smoking, or drugs minimal alcohol.

    The current problem is that come summer and out biking more often my weights training is affecting my riding. I usually train hard enough so I can feel muscle soreness the day afterwards and any aerobic work in this state seems pointless and the energy in my legs seems to take 72hr to return.

    I know some racers use weight training to build strength and traing for recovery but how do they not cause it to affect their on bike training. Reducing the intensity is an option like dcb said but want to both strong and aerobically fit. When I hit 12 stone lean I'll change the weights to high volume and lower the intensity.
    And thats whats happening!

  10. #10
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    whats zone 2?
    And thats whats happening!

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by drjekyll
    whats zone 2?
    Zone 2 is an aerobic training zone. No sprints, or lactic acid build up. It's pretty much a constant pace with slightly broken speech. Relatively high RPM, low torque on the legs.

    I usually ride my bike to the weight room, and if it's a really hard workout, I'm careful not to add more lactic acid to the legs.

    I'm older now (42) and don't recover like I used to. I remember when in my 20's, I could do full bodybuilding type workouts (rep squats with 315lb, 225 bench presses, etc.), and play 1-1.5 hours of full-court, fairly-physical basketball afterwards.

    Those days are long, long over.
    Last edited by Poncharelli; 10-03-2009 at 05:47 PM.
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  12. #12
    AZ
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcb
    As others have said, it's better to build strength during a time of year when you know you're not going to be riding as much. If you're just concerned with strength maintenance, then you can reduce the frequency and volume of your training and keep your strength.

    For example, you said you deadlifted 80kg X 10 reps for 3 sets. So your total workout volume for this workout was 2400kg. You could keep the same amount of strength by lifting 80kg for 1 or 2 sets of 2-5 reps every 7-10 days. Let's say you lift 80kg X 4 reps for 2 sets. Now your total volume is 640kg, so you've cut your volume by almost 75%. This type of workout would take much less of a toll on your recovery ability.


    Solid advice here . Doing less which allows you to do more.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by drjekyll
    Some poeple use weight training to help their cycling, is it possible to train for strength without losing performance? what are the best ways to recover?
    The name of the forum is XC Racing and Training. If you are weight training for anything beyond injury prevention, you are compromising your prep for cross-country racing, which is after all an endurance sport.

  14. #14
    dcb
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    Quote Originally Posted by drjekyll
    Reducing the intensity is an option like dcb said but want to both strong and aerobically fit. When I hit 12 stone lean I'll change the weights to high volume and lower the intensity.
    Just to make sure we're on the same page, I suggested you lower your volume and KEEP your intensity. Intensity in weight training terms is defined as the % of your 1RM that you are lifting and this is the key to keeping your strength gains while you reduce your volume.

  15. #15
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    To prevent sore mucles lower your reps to 2/3 x 3-5 reps. And of course this is even of benefit for strictly XC-racing.

  16. #16
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    It could be a several issues such as nutrition, sleep, or even just simple recovery time. It also sounds like you may be overtraining as well. (and that is very hard to actually do) If you really have been going 7 days a week for a long time you should probably give yourself some time off from everything for a while and let your body recover. Sleep is a must. There is no way to keep that kind of a regiment and not get enough sleep. Also you may need to specifically address pre and post exercise nutrition. As we age we do recover less easily from exercise so things that may not have mattered in the past nutrition, sleep, recovery time, etc mater more than they did before. Even younger people who may not feel like they need to address these issues will benefit from addressing them because it means they can push themselves harder in training.

    It all comes down to what your focus is. If your goal is to succeed at racing and the weight room is just a tool to help your performance and/or prevent injuries then you may need to lift less. However if your focus is to be in great overall shape and just be able to have fun on the bike then find a happy medium of both but dont expect to excell at either.
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  17. #17
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    If you weight train properly, you can still workout in the gym and pedal.

  18. #18
    LMN
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    The benefits of weight training for XC racing has been argued to death in this forum.

    Personally I don't think it is beneficial but at the same time I don't think it hurts, as long as it is done in moderation early in the season.

    The general rules is heavy weights and heavy riding do not go together.

  19. #19
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    You have to prioritize what your goals are for the given time of season and adjust your lifting accordingly. The Frequency (How often), Intensity (% of 1RM), Time and Type will change depending on the amount of riding your doing at any given time.

    If you want to work on strength and maintain performance, Id suggest what others here have beofre. Keep your intensity up, train heavy in the 1-5 RM range, ensure adequate rest between sets (2-3mins of active rest), but drop your volume. I personally love riding AFTER training the legs. I believe somewhat in Neurological adaptation and if you keep your rides aerobic and at a moderate intensity level, its not harmfull assuming adequate nutrition between workouts. Riding before would also be ok but it will more than likely take away from your performance in the wieght room depending on the intensity level and duration. Again, you have to choose what YOUR goals are.

    Most importantly your nutrition, sleep and stress level will play a huge role in recovery. Sleep 7-8hrs a night, have naps, eat "Paleo" or just strive to clean things up, and make sure to take time to rest and relax. You can do what your talking about but you need to balance it indivudualy and make sure you dont overtrain.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by drjekyll
    Hi

    If I have done a weight session with deadlifts (recently 3 sets of 10reps of 80kg) my legs dont recover and any cycling within 72hour my legs feel weakened and lacking in energy. Some poeple use weight training to help their cycling, is it possible to train for strength without losing performance? what are the best ways to recover?
    i dont know how you do this but 3 sets of 10 is hard and if the set will last more then 15-20 sek you will produce a lot of lactic acid and as you go older your tollerance to lactic acid goes down drasticly and this wears you down. There is a way to get around this though either by lifting heavier weights less reps say 2-4 reps or by increasing work speed and reduce weight when doing this you should lift about 55% of your maximal load as fast as you can (but controlled) 10 times if you feel like you loose intencity or get lactic acid you should stop. The rest beetween sets should be about 5 minutes to let the muscles recover properly.

    The positives with this type of training is that it maximises the power you can produce and not the muscle growth. For me this type of strength training is the only thing ive tried that works all other things ive tried are messing my endurance training up pretty baadly

    it might be worth a try

  21. #21
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    Just use your bike to train. Find a good 20 second hill & find a tough gear. Then burst up the hill, coast down & rest a minute w/ the coast time included. After your minute burst back up the hill. Do about 30 of these.(It should take around 45 minutes). Do this work out twice a week. After a week of doing it, decrease your recovery time & fit 5 more rides in. Once you hit 45 rides in 45 minutes gear up and start doing 30 runs again. If you want to pedal harder then practice pedaling harder & this is the best way to do it.

    When it is time to train your lungs do the same thing, but find a bigger hill each time instead of gearing up. This way you force yourself to push hard at intervals instead of just waiting on that next hill to climb. On a typical ride you may rip up a hill, fly down the other side, & then coast for 5 minutes. This takes away all those breaks & prepares you for anything. Come race time you will be trained to rip up monster hill after monster hill at break neck pace.

  22. #22
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    bottom line is your muscles cant adapt for endurance and strength at the same time.....it is better to do one, recover and then do the other......periodization is ideal, like most have suggested.....do most of your weight training in the winter....with age intensity trumps volume everytime......

    carmichaels latest book actually has alot of great advice....def worth reading for any cyclist with family and work obligations that affect ride time.....


    must read regarding this topic:
    http://article.pubs.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca/p...&startPage=355
    Last edited by suvowner; 12-03-2009 at 07:09 PM.

  23. #23
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    You should be resting for 3 days between a work out if you go 100%. If you go 70% or so then you can go heavey & then cardio/low weight high rep the next day, but you should still get 3 days rest after that. You need alot of calories to recover from big lifts like that & going on those long rides will just make it tougher to recover.

  24. #24
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    Just want to throw this out here. What are you eating for recovery? If you've pushed yourself that hard, you may need a high carb/moderate protein shake right after working out. This will refill your muscles with glycogen, and provide protein right away so your body isn't cannibalizing itself.

    You may even want to eat something like this right before your workout.

    I'm 38 and was really dragging after rides or workouts earlier this year. I started being very deliberate about having a recovery drink immediately (15-20 min tops) after exercise and now almost don't feel tired later in the day. During my rides over 45 min, I drink some accelerade with extra protein and have noticed a huge difference in my ability to ride at a higher effort and for longer duration. (I keep that in a water bottle and use a camelbak for plain water).

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