Weight lifting for legs

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  • 12-02-2012
    kingkongsfinger
    Weight lifting for legs
    Hi,

    Has anyone got any weight lifting programmes for legs, if possible one that can be done at home and not in a gym.

    Im 42 been racing around 10 years and want to have some more power, and something to do when its really bad weather outside or I only have 30-45 mins to spare. (For fitness level references I get into the top 10 in local MTB races and scrape top 20 in national events. Sub hour 25 mile TT and 21.30 min 10 mile TT)

    I would like more power and maybe a bit more definition (for vainty) :eek:

    Cheers.
  • 12-02-2012
    cmattmiller
    Check out Mountain Bike Strength and Cardio Training Tips and Programs, he has a workout called "No Weights, No Gym, No Problem" as well as some dumbbell/kettlebell workouts.
  • 12-02-2012
    limba
    This question gets asked every winter. You might want to search for old threads. You can do plenty of body weight exercises that will torture your legs and even do on the bike workouts indoors on the trainer. If you use weights, learn proper form before you lift anything heavy.
  • 12-02-2012
    Le Duke
    Adding more muscle does not necessarily equate to more long term power.

    If you want to become more "defined", you need to strip the fat off of your body, not add more (IMO useless) bulk.

    I'd focus on making what you have more efficient, but that's just me.
  • 12-02-2012
    Devincicx
    you can keep the second objective you stated there but lifting to increase bike power is pretty useless and has been demonstrated quite a few times.

    With that amount of time and requirements, I'd hit some timed body weight circuit with explosive movements. Its very hard and good for conditionning. Here is what I did last winter, the goal is to do as many repetitions as you can within the 20sec bouts.

    20sec single leg jump L
    20sec single elg jump R
    10sec OFF
    20sec knee to chest jumps
    10sec OFF
    20sec jumped lunge
    10sec OFF
    20sec push up
    10sec OFF
    30sec plank
    10sec OFF
    REPEAT

    5min OFF

    repeat 2 more times

    just dont expect it to help your cycling
  • 12-02-2012
    scottz123
    As Le Duke says definition is body fat. But, lifting can help you increase your metabolism and look better (toned)

    Leg exercises at home with lil investment - I would think #1 would be step-ups.
    Step-Up Strength Exercise - YouTube

    Joe Friels Training bibles address weight lifting - newer editions use low rep for max effort lifting

    Joe Friels blog addresses "Aging Athletes" - He adresses weight lifting in this article - Older athletes need it the older they get to help maintain muscle mass and bone density
    Joe Friel - Q & A: Recovery and the Aging Athlete

    If you are looking to squat, deadlift, I use Dr. Squat 5x5 calculator
    16 Week 5x5 Week Generator | Dr. Squat - Dr. Fred Hatfield

    Hunter Allen Winter Training Article - see 2nd paragraph about strength work on bike
    http://www.peakscoachinggroup.com/Ar...20Training.pdf
  • 12-02-2012
    scottz123
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Devincicx View Post
    you can keep the second objective you stated there but lifting to increase bike power is pretty useless and has been demonstrated quite a few times.

    With that amount of time and requirements, I'd hit some timed body weight circuit with explosive movements. Its very hard and good for conditionning. Here is what I did last winter, the goal is to do as many repetitions as you can within the 20sec bouts.

    20sec single leg jump L
    20sec single elg jump R
    10sec OFF
    20sec knee to chest jumps
    10sec OFF
    20sec jumped lunge
    10sec OFF
    20sec push up
    10sec OFF
    30sec plank
    10sec OFF
    REPEAT

    5min OFF

    repeat 2 more times

    just dont expect it to help your cycling

    I agree about cycling performance to a point - I thought I heard a quote from Hunter Allen basically saying a 12 year old had enough muscle mass to put out a lot of watts (300w+?) @ FTP.
    I think it starts to get important as you get older, testosterone starts going down and you start losing muscle mass.
  • 12-02-2012
    voodoo5
    Whatever program you choose, make sure it includes ass to the grass squats. (and deadlifts of course!)
  • 12-02-2012
    scottz123
    I would think at least match the knee angle you use on the bike
  • 12-02-2012
    voodoo5
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by scottz123 View Post
    I would think at least match the knee angle you use on the bike

    Haters gonna hate.

  • 12-02-2012
    SkiNBike
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by voodoo5 View Post
    Haters gonna hate.


    Haha.
  • 12-03-2012
    scottz123
    No Hate involved
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by voodoo5 View Post
    Haters gonna hate.


    Just trying to help original poster the best I can. From what I understood he was a cyclist first.

    What I have learned on lifting.
    1. Try to mimic movement of activity.
    Per Joe Friel squat instructions "4. Squat until upper thighs are halfivay to parallel to floor about the same knee bend as at top of pedal stroke"
    http://www.trainingbible.com/pdf/Cyc...th_Program.pdf

    2. Don't get hurt lifting
  • 12-03-2012
    scottz123
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by kingkongsfinger View Post
    Hi,

    Has anyone got any weight lifting programmes for legs, if possible one that can be done at home and not in a gym.

    Im 42 been racing around 10 years and want to have some more power, and something to do when its really bad weather outside or I only have 30-45 mins to spare. (For fitness level references I get into the top 10 in local MTB races and scrape top 20 in national events. Sub hour 25 mile TT and 21.30 min 10 mile TT)

    I would like more power and maybe a bit more definition (for vainty) :eek:

    Cheers.

    King
    I would look into obtain a copy of joe friels training bible - there is a good chapter about lifitng in there and when and how to apply various stages (muscular adaption, max strenght, etc). If you do, make sure you get newer version where he works up to 6rep maxes - vs older version where he is more 12-15 rep max.My third edition has the 6rep max plan BUT, MTB bible has a little different version. Pretty cheap for used copies on Amazon
  • 12-03-2012
    Poncharelli
    I'll offer some unscientific anecdotal advice.

    -Skinny dudes seem to benefit more than mesomorphish type guys, or big guys. That could be because strength is a limiter with these guys.
    -Lifting seems to help more in cycling events with explosive moves: rolling terrain, cyclocross, crits, etc. Long climbs, probably not as much. The Andy Schleck type bodies seem to do better there, which doesn't need much lifting to develop.
    -About a year ago, someone posted a study with highly trained cyclist who did lifting SUPPLEMENTAL to riding. The riders who lifted did better. Makes sense since they did more overall work compared to the control group. Therefore, if you want to lift and want great cycling performance, it should be done SUPPLEMENTAL and not as a replacement to cycling hours.

    But at the end, everyone should do what makes them happy, especially us guys who don't get paid for riding. I'm definitely much happier lifting this time of year..........I just love it.

    Got some deadlifts, pushup, and pull ups in cross fit tonight; while basking in the glory of my first cyclocross podium this weekend!!! Couldn't be more pumped right now.
  • 12-03-2012
    Devincicx
    Agrred lifting shouldnt replace cycling but should be an addition to the regular endurance training.

    The study you are refering to, Ponch, if its the one im thinking, is flawed, as it wasnt mention what kind of training the control group was doing.

    As for strength being a limiter, its fairly easy to demonstrate its not. In fact, the AEPF of pedaling at high wattage is quite low. I did a calculation a while ago and dont remember the exact data, but from memory it looked like this: to cycle at 700W at 90RPM you need to average 107lbs with both legs during the 360 degree of the pedal stroke. Less then you need to stand up from a sat down position or climbing stairs. (I could get the exact forumla but too lazy ATM).

    Finaly, just dont expect lifting to help your cycling. To get better at cycling, I cycle at specific power output/duration/cadence. BUT *disclaimer*, to remain healthy, I lift heavy stuff!
  • 12-03-2012
    Mtn-Rider
    You asked about "at home" and "not in a gym", how about a home gym? Or at least a simple leg curl machine with weight plates. Check craigslist for used fitness equipment.
  • 12-03-2012
    Poncharelli
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Devincicx View Post
    The study you are refering to, Ponch, if its the one im thinking, is flawed, as it wasnt mention what kind of training the control group was doing.

    STUDY 1) Effect of heavy strength training on thigh muscle cross-sectional area, performance determinants, and performance in well-trained cyclists. Eur J Appl Physiol. 2010 Mar;108(5):965-75. Epub 2009 Dec 4.

    Rønnestad BR, Hansen EA, Raastad T.
    University College, PB. 952, 2604, Lillehammer, Norway. bent.ronnestad@hil.no

    SUMMARY: The purpose of this study was to investigate the effect of heavy strength training on thigh muscle cross-sectional area (CSA), determinants of cycling performance, and cycling performance in well-trained cyclists. Twenty well-trained cyclists were assigned to either usual endurance training combined with heavy strength training [E + S; n = 11 (male symbol = 11)] or to usual endurance training only [E; n = 9 (male symbol = 7, female symbol = 2)]. The strength training performed by E + S consisted of four lower body exercises [3 x 4-10 repetition maximum (RM)], which were performed twice a week for 12 weeks. Thigh muscle CSA, maximal force in isometric half squat, power output in 30 s Wingate test, maximal oxygen consumption (VO(2max)), power output at 2 mmol l(-1) blood lactate concentration ([la(-)]), and performance, as mean power production, in a 40-min all-out trial were measured before and after the intervention. E + S increased thigh muscle CSA, maximal isometric force, and peak power in the Wingate test more than E. Power output at 2 mmol l(-1) [la(-)] and mean power output in the 40-min all-out trial were improved in E + S (P < 0.05). For E, only performance in the 40-min all-out trial tended to improve (P = 0.057). The two groups showed similar increases in VO(2max) (P < 0.05). In conclusion, adding strength training to usual endurance training improved determinants of cycling performance as well as performance in well-trained cyclists. Of particular note is that the added strength training increased thigh muscle CSA without causing an increase in body mass.

    Full Text: Effect of heavy strength training on thigh muscle cross-sectional area, performance determinants, and performance in well-trained cyclists - Springer

    "Training Endurance training consisted primarily of cycling, but some cross-country skiing was also performed (up to 10% of total training duration). Training duration and intensity were calculated based on recordings from heart rate (HR) monitors (Polar, Kempele, Finland). Endurance training was divided into five HR zones: (1) 60–72%, (2) 73–82%, (3) 83–87%, (4) 88–92%, and (5) 93–100% of maximal HR. An overview of the distribution of the endurance training into the five intensity zones for both groups is presented in Table 1. The duration of the endurance training and the distribution of this training within the five training zones were similar between groups."

    To the OP: The strength exercises performed were: half squat, leg press with one leg at a time, one-legged hip flexion, and ankle plantar flexion. (Looks like they varied the reps throughout study, max reps being 10. But only 3 sets of each exercise)

    For you guys who didn't quite get the SUMMARY, all it says is the guys who added lifting performed better on most the cycling power tests.
  • 12-03-2012
    limba
    The Legs And Back workout in P90X is hard. You'll definitely feel it the next day. You don't need any machines or even heavy weights to do it. You might want to check it out. I do those videos when the weather sucks.

    Here is the Leg portion of the workout.
    Balance lunge - 25 reps each leg.
    Calf raise squat - Just lift anything you have.
    Super Skater - 25 reps each side.
    Wall squat - 90 seconds or more.
    Step back lunge - 15 reps each side.
    Alternating side Lunge - 24 reps.
    Single leg wall squat - One minute. Alternate legs every 10 seconds.
    Deadlift squat - 20 reps.
    Three way lunge with kick.
    Sneaky Lunge - 20 reps.
    Chair salutations - 2 reps for 30 seconds each.
    Toe roll iso lunge - 20 reps each side.
    Groucho walk - 45 seconds.
    Calf raises - 15 slow, 10 fast. Change feet angle each rep.
    Siebers speed squat - 30 reps per leg.

    Google the names if you don't understand the movement.
  • 12-03-2012
    jcm01
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Poncharelli View Post
    Therefore, if you want to lift and want great cycling performance, it should be done SUPPLEMENTAL and not as a replacement to cycling hours.

    I hear you, but the problem I have is, I find this impossible to do. I've read in lots of places that riding makes you faster so if you want to get faster on the bike, ride. And when I lift legs, the fatigue I get from lifting limits my weekly riding hours as my legs need to recover. So while I would like to lift more ideally, I just can't get there without it effecting my time on the bike??
  • 12-03-2012
    limba
    You're not going to be able to do hard leg workouts and hard riding. That's not going to happen. Most guys lift in the off season and do easy spins on the bike/trainer with some intensity occasionally.
  • 12-03-2012
    Devincicx
    their endurance training was mostly low end intensity stuff.

    FWIW I lift HEAVY stuff and hit the trainer with L6 efforts right after, my power output isnt affected whatsoever, YMMV
  • 12-03-2012
    DLd
    The key is do the lifting on the same days that you go hard on the bike. Say you do a ride with intervals in the morning, either lift right after (already warmed up) or lift that evening. Then you have your normal recovery ride or day off the next day. Don't try to fit it in by lifting on your recovery days. Also start by adding just one set of each exercise and work up to more. Find what works for you without affecting your volume.

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
  • 12-03-2012
    jcm01
    Good input, thanks guys.
  • 12-03-2012
    Poncharelli
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Devincicx View Post
    their endurance training was mostly low end intensity stuff.

    Yes, I noticed that too. They all did mostly Zone 1/2 endurance and weightlifting, and all subjects improved their power metrics. Awesome!!:D

    This study gets better and better every time I read it.
  • 12-03-2012
    petersbike
    I just feel better lifting right now. I am not super fast nor do I race very consistently. I am 6'4" 165-175ibs during the year. I ride singlespeed 50 - 100miles. I feel for me that my legs seem to get tired and fatigued before I am aerobically taxed. I also like to ski tele and not get hurt when I crash. I think that leg exercises like squats and deadlifts are awesome full body exercises that recruit so much more than just your legs. Think core. I don't lift alot of weight either since I mostly just do it in the wintertime. You will be able to lift more very quickly but your tendons and ligaments are not strengthening as quickly as your musculature. Be careful.
    W/O weights try air squats , single leg squats, step ups and box jumps.

    Walt
  • 12-03-2012
    Leopold Porkstacker
    Singlespeed up hills does really well for strength training.
  • 12-04-2012
    BruceBrown
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by kingkongsfinger View Post
    Hi,

    Has anyone got any weight lifting programmes for legs, if possible one that can be done at home and not in a gym.

    Im 42 been racing around 10 years and want to have some more power, and something to do when its really bad weather outside or I only have 30-45 mins to spare. (For fitness level references I get into the top 10 in local MTB races and scrape top 20 in national events. Sub hour 25 mile TT and 21.30 min 10 mile TT)

    I would like more power and maybe a bit more definition (for vainty) :eek:

    Cheers.

    Absolutely do it at home. 30-45 minutes is a good amount of time to do this. If you start going beyond that time frame there are diminishing returns, so your time budget is perfect.

    You can start with hand held weights, free weights - whatever you have room for in your home (garage, shed, basement, etc...). Good idea for testosterone production and bone density for us old guys (over 40 that is).

    My basement "home gym" has built up over the years. Started with hand held weights and a treadmill, and it has grown (used by the entire family these days).


    HomeGymWeights by BBcamerata, on Flickr

    Lunges, squats, dead lifts, core workout, upper body toning - Morris and Friel both outline it pretty well for cycling specific weight work.

    Using the periodization approach, the first weeks may only be lifting the Olympic bar, and very "entry level" amounts of mass so that the body adapts and sets the stage for adding weight.

    Again - you don't need a lot of equipment and can easily begin with hand held weights and or a cheap set of free weights. Add a rack/bench later if you find you are benefitting from it all and like it.

    BB
  • 12-04-2012
    limba
    Nice. You can also use medicine balls or kettle bells for your weights/resistance.
  • 12-04-2012
    thesnail
    I don't know if lifting helps or not but luckily I have access to a gym at lunch so it doesn't really afffect the rest of my training. I'm almost 45 so I like to do a lot of reps for upper body(usually around 20), I'm not trying to build muscle, just look good for the ladies and have some strength for Mt bike handling and cross. During cross season and into the spring I do legs hard on Monday(leg press, curl and reverse curl, bout 8 reps), then a 30 min easy easy spin on the trainer. Wednesday I just do leg press, except after cross season then I do legs hard twice a week.
  • 12-04-2012
    RTM
    I like the guy who said, rule 2. Don't get hurt. Man that is so true. I've been lifting for a sport since I was in high school. I've done some really stupid things, including herniated discs in my lower back that now PREVENT me from playing some of the sports I love.
    Oh the irony...

    Anyway, I'm now 41 and much wiser. And I'm actually in my best shape and feel better than I have in years. One resource I find helpful is the men's health book of exercises. It's largely geared toward total body fitness. A pretty dramatic difference from the way we learned to lift in the mid to late 80's. The Weider principals are fine, but for real world fitness, sports power, injury prevention and longevity, there is definitely a whole new school of thought. It's mostly about getting off the benches and seats. And it is VERY effective.

    ps - just wanted to mention a probably little known one of my favorites. reverse lunge with your back foot in a TRX-type suspension training strap. All around fantastic for riding, running, etc.

    - Rob
  • 12-04-2012
    2fst4u
    1 Attachment(s)
    Lift 2x per week when base training-full body. Adjust your leg workouts to where your not destroyed the next day-minor soreness is ok but if your really fatigued your going to hard. I do 4 sets of legs twice a week 2 sets of squats and 2 sets of stiff leg deads. I've lifted a lot before I was a cyclist so soon as I start doing legs they puff up so a lot isn't necessary for me but yeah the little bit I do helps a lot with general fitness, health/ knee health/ short climbs/ standing on the bike etc..

    "Cyclist Robert Forstemann and his freakish quads are trending today"
  • 12-05-2012
    kingkongsfinger
    Superb information here, thanks alot.

    Going to digest it all and choose some of the exersizes.

    Great idea to do weights the same day after a hard session while still warm and then recover the day after.

    Thanks for all the info, links etc. Will start a small program.

    Cheers.:thumbsup:
  • 12-05-2012
    Devincicx
    generally its better to lift BEFORE a hard workout. I usually lift, then go straight onto the trainer and hit my hard training. The possition might affect your lifting, but the lifting wont affect your bike power
  • 12-05-2012
    jroden
    As you get older and ride more, doing some winter work on the core and opposing muscles is really smart. It helps prevent injury when you crash, improves posture and reduces loss of bone density.

    You don't need to do a lot, just enough to balance yourself back out. If you want to hit your legs a little more, it won't hurt and may (or not) help your cycling performance.

    For a rider with just 45 mins to invest, 2x20 at tempo or higher with a quick cool down on the trainer is the best bang this time of year.
  • 12-12-2012
    Johnny K
    I think Friel and anyone else that say mimic bike riding knee angle with squats is wrong. What about bench press....don't bend elbows past mountain biking angle? Give me a break.

    Squats are done with hip joint below knee joint to fully engage adductors, abductors, and hamstrings to ensure a safe, powerful motion. This creates a balanced force on the knees and hips. Look up Mark Rippetoe if you actually want to know how to squat or deadlift. Ass to grass is also wrong, you lose the bracing effect of the spine that low down.

    But, ah, the lifting. I've done it and felt it was pointless and wore me out (Morris). Right now I do KB swings a few times a week and would do deadlifts if I had a bar around.

    MTB needs exercises that complement cycling, which is not the same as mimic it. If you are trying to mimic it, you guessed it, riding a bike works well.
  • 12-13-2012
    scottz123
    If I had a bar around...
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Johnny K View Post
    I think Friel and anyone else that say mimic bike riding knee angle with squats is wrong. What about bench press....don't bend elbows past mountain biking angle? Give me a break.

    Squats are done with hip joint below knee joint to fully engage adductors, abductors, and hamstrings to ensure a safe, powerful motion. This creates a balanced force on the knees and hips. Look up Mark Rippetoe if you actually want to know how to squat or deadlift. Ass to grass is also wrong, you lose the bracing effect of the spine that low down.

    But, ah, the lifting. I've done it and felt it was pointless and wore me out (Morris). Right now I do KB swings a few times a week and would do deadlifts if I had a bar around.

    MTB needs exercises that complement cycling, which is not the same as mimic it. If you are trying to mimic it, you guessed it, riding a bike works well.

    Sounds like you do a lot of reading.

    DeFranco's Training - Ask Joe 03.24.06
    you can "control F" keywords "sport specific"

    Per DeFranco
    The Cliff Notes version of my little rant is this…”Sport-specific training in the weight room is ********! Get strong in the weight room using the most economical exercises and then make that strength “sport-specific” by practicing the technical aspects of your sport separately!” Simple enough?
  • 12-13-2012
    Johnny K
    Yeah. Agree with defranco
  • 01-04-2013
    scottz123
    Squat deep?
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SkiNBike View Post
    Haha.

    T NATION | Does Everyone Need To Squat (Deep)?
  • 01-04-2013
    BruceBrown
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by kingkongsfinger View Post
    Superb information here, thanks alot.

    Going to digest it all and choose some of the exersizes.

    Great idea to do weights the same day after a hard session while still warm and then recover the day after.

    Thanks for all the info, links etc. Will start a small program.

    Cheers.:thumbsup:

    Curious if you had chosen some exercises and started yet. There are always a lot of opinions when it comes to lifting and cycling, but consider the professional cycling coaches that pretty much always include lifting in the off season plans for Masters (40+) mountain bikers. What do they know that the opinions don't know?:eek:

    A good sample program for a 12 week base building plan for Masters 40+ mountain bike riders that includes the traditional periodized weight lifting plan, mixed with riding would be the one available from LW Coaching. Lynda Wallenfells posts from time to time here on MTBR.com and if you purchase the plan and sign up for her website forums - personal attention is included via question and answer format. You can download the sample .pdf file which lists the first 2 weeks of the 12 week plan to see how they integrate weights and on the bike time (and recovery).

    I don't recall reading any plan (Morris, Friel, LW, etc....) that suggests lifting and then riding hard on the same day for any Masters athlete. I guess it depends on the definition of "hard". But assuming "hard" means intensity, wouldn't too much muscle tearing be done from lifting and riding hard on the same day? This would take too long to recover from for the older athlete and trash the rest of the week's training. Maybe when one was younger, but not for the older athlete. Recovery rides/spins after lifting on the same day - yes, but doing hard riding following lifting? Hmmmm....probably not a problem if lifts were only upper body, but if the muscles were already torn down with lower body lifts - I'd like to see the professional cycling coaches who advocate that for the older guys.
  • 01-09-2013
    Stumpjumpy
    Yeah, can't imagine lower-body lifting and high intensity riding on the same day. Whichever is done subsequent would be a vastly suboptimal effort on spent legs with vastly diminished returns.
  • 01-09-2013
    Devincicx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Stumpjumpy View Post
    Yeah, can't imagine lower-body lifting and high intensity riding on the same day. Whichever is done subsequent would be a vastly suboptimal effort on spent legs with vastly diminished returns.

    it depends on the type of effort you'll be doing on the bike.

    Lifting will recruit all type of muscle fiber and certainly fatigue you, but you will still have enough energy for certain type of effort on the bike.

    I lift heavy, think 5-6 reps and I often train after my lifting on the bike, doing short L6 power micro intervals with short recovery, I only do a total of 4-7min of total time spent at L6 power. If I dont lift prior, I hit the same power at same RPE.
  • 01-09-2013
    Mtn-Rider
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Stumpjumpy View Post
    Yeah, can't imagine lower-body lifting and high intensity riding on the same day. Whichever is done subsequent would be a vastly suboptimal effort on spent legs with vastly diminished returns.

    Me neither, every time I try both on the same day the lifting gets painful, heavy arm curls become impossible. There's something about a bumpy ride messing with muscles, tendons, and ligaments that demand a day of rest.
  • 01-09-2013
    DLd
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by kingkongsfinger View Post
    Superb information here, thanks alot.

    Going to digest it all and choose some of the exersizes.

    Great idea to do weights the same day after a hard session while still warm and then recover the day after.

    Thanks for all the info, links etc. Will start a small program.

    Cheers.:thumbsup:

    If lifting right after riding just be sure you're not so fatigued that you sacrifice form and safety. Otherwise later in the day (2 a day approach) might be better. It depends what you're doing. In general, I think strength-building workouts on the bike are better. Hard hill repeats where you can just maintain 50rpm is one type. Focus on what's appropriate for the types of races you'll be doing. If you've got races coming up with 5000ft+ of climbing for example, you probably don't want to be piling on extra mass, you'd get more benefit from long climbing workouts, while a course with short, powerful, technical sections (some uphill steps type of scenarios) might benefit from the workout above.
  • 01-10-2013
    Devincicx
    weight lifting has little to nothing to do with bike power. Lift, sure, but dont expect it to inprove your cycling. Do it for the right reasons.

    Lift heavy and stay tiny ;)
  • 01-10-2013
    BruceBrown
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Devincicx View Post
    weight lifting has little to nothing to do with bike power. Lift, sure, but dont expect it to inprove your cycling. Do it for the right reasons.

    Correct, for the Masters Athlete during the off season - lifting has little to do with cycling (outside of sprints and short steep climbs), but everything to do with testosterone production and bone density. Both of those are worth it for the over 40 crowd male cyclist of which the OP mentioned he was.

    And the OP did mention one of his goals included vanity.:thumbsup:
  • 01-10-2013
    Devincicx
    weight lifting has little to do with endurance cycling sprints and steep hills, same goes for bone density. Weight lifting is not an impact activity, unless you do plyos etc. You're better off running or playing impact sports such as badminton, for bone density.

    As for sprints and steep hills involved in endurance cycling discipline, nothing to do with legs size/strength. Power production relies on metabolical processes, not muscle contraction absolute force.

    Sorry to play the smartass there
  • 01-10-2013
    pattongb
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Devincicx View Post
    weight lifting has little to nothing to do with bike power. Lift, sure, but dont expect it to inprove your cycling. Do it for the right reasons.

    Lift heavy and stay tiny ;)

    Im sorry but: Wrong Wrong and Wrong!

    Overall fitness will CERTAINLY help improve your cycling; including lifting weights. Anything that improves your ability to delay lactic acid build up in your muscles and improves your cardiovascular fitness will help you ride better.

    The ability to push your body that little bit extra say on a hill or on sprint to the finish can be mimicked by exertion in the gym. So when your pushing yourself to do that one last rep you are better preparing yourself for pushing yourself on the bike.

    Now you can argue that there is no direct correlation to increased power output due to specific weight lifting exercises, but to say that improving overall general fitness will not improve someones biking is just being foolish.

    One final note: Lean muscle burns more calories pound for pound than fat. So lifting to add lean muscle will give a rider an additional advantage of being able to keep weight off easier. For a lot of us that is a much needed bonus.

    OP, lift away and as many here have said, try not to gain too much weight.
  • 01-10-2013
    Devincicx
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by pattongb View Post
    Im sorry but: Wrong Wrong and Wrong!

    Overall fitness will CERTAINLY help improve your cycling; including lifting weights. Anything that improves your ability to delay lactic acid build up in your muscles and improves your cardiovascular fitness will help you ride better.

    The ability to push your body that little bit extra say on a hill or on sprint to the finish can be mimicked by exertion in the gym. So when your pushing yourself to do that one last rep you are better preparing yourself for pushing yourself on the bike.

    Now you can argue that there is no direct correlation to increased power output due to specific weight lifting exercises, but to say that improving overall general fitness will not improve someones biking is just being foolish.

    One final note: Lean muscle burns more calories pound for pound than fat. So lifting to add lean muscle will give a rider an additional advantage of being able to keep weight off easier. For a lot of us that is a much needed bonus.

    OP, lift away and as many here have said, try not to gain too much weight.

    In all due respect, you should be more careful before saying someone is plain wrong, especially with such statements. That being said, it all comes down to who you are and what you need, but generally:

    Overall fitness and general conditioning will certainly improve your bike fitness IF you're untrained or quite new to the sport. Doing general conditioning, cross-training, weight lifting, etc, will be better then doing nothing at all and sitting on the couch. But the fact is you need to ride your bike if you want to be a faster bike rider. Time spent on the bike is way better then doing general sport activities, think specificity (more on that in a few sec).

    Lactic acid does'nt actually do you any harm or make you feel anything.

    Why waste time and "push your body" through that last rep when you could push your body through that last grueling interval on the bike? Aerobic fitness is very sport specific, therefore you need to train specificaly to improve your sport performance. Cycling has its whole neuromuscular specificity that cant be replicated in the gym. Forces involved are very specific, velocity and muscle contraction angle are too. A lot of good bike rider would be average runner and shitty swimmer.

    Improving overall general fitness, like previously said, will help IF your untrained. If you've been training for a few years, then becoming a more powerful and faster bike rider should be done mainly via cycling training, not any other kind of "detraining" activity.

    More lean muscle generally also means a lower w/kg ratio which is overly important in MTB riding/racing/performance. Sure it might burn energy better/faster, but if you're already at a healthy weight, why bother? Riding your bike would also burn decent energy. An hour of weight lifting will burn roughly 350-450 cal for the average weight male while an hour riding your bike at a modest 150W will burn 550 cal. Throw in a few intervals and you easily hit 700-900 cal for an hour.

    Finaly, once again, weight lifting wont improve your bike performance as would riding your bike in a significant maner would. But it really depends on who you are and what your specific need/goals are too. Just dont fool yourself thinking if you have stronger legs you will go faster on a bicycle, its plain nuts.

    *disclaimer: I lift weights, I do plyos, I do cross-fit stuff, I like it, but I dont expect it to improve my cycling.

    ** disregard my whole post if generating more power on a bicycle does not matter to you
  • 01-10-2013
    pattongb
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Devincicx View Post
    In all due respect, you should be more careful before saying someone is plain wrong, especially with such statements. That being said, it all comes down to who you are and what you need, but generally:

    Overall fitness and general conditioning will certainly improve your bike fitness IF you're untrained or quite new to the sport. Doing general conditioning, cross-training, weight lifting, etc, will be better then doing nothing at all and sitting on the couch. But the fact is you need to ride your bike if you want to be a faster bike rider. Time spent on the bike is way better then doing general sport activities, think specificity (more on that in a few sec).

    Lactic acid does'nt actually do you any harm or make you feel anything.

    Why waste time and "push your body" through that last rep when you could push your body through that last grueling interval on the bike? Aerobic fitness is very sport specific, therefore you need to train specificaly to improve your sport performance. Cycling has its whole neuromuscular specificity that cant be replicated in the gym. Forces involved are very specific, velocity and muscle contraction angle are too. A lot of good bike rider would be average runner and shitty swimmer.

    Improving overall general fitness, like previously said, will help IF your untrained. If you've been training for a few years, then becoming a more powerful and faster bike rider should be done mainly via cycling training, not any other kind of "detraining" activity.

    More lean muscle generally also means a lower w/kg ratio which is overly important in MTB riding/racing/performance. Sure it might burn energy better/faster, but if you're already at a healthy weight, why bother? Riding your bike would also burn decent energy. An hour of weight lifting will burn roughly 350-450 cal for the average weight male while an hour riding your bike at a modest 150W will burn 550 cal. Throw in a few intervals and you easily hit 700-900 cal for an hour.

    Finaly, once again, weight lifting wont improve your bike performance as would riding your bike in a significant maner would. But it really depends on who you are and what your specific need/goals are too. Just dont fool yourself thinking if you have stronger legs you will go faster on a bicycle, its plain nuts.

    *disclaimer: I lift weights, I do plyos, I do cross-fit stuff, I like it, but I dont expect it to improve my cycling.

    ** disregard my whole post if generating more power on a bicycle does not matter to you

    Sorry it was not my intention to be "gruff" or to put anyone down.

    The better your overall fitness the quicker your body recovers from lactic acid build up, which is the #1 enemy of a mountain bike racer.

    Unless you have 4-7% body fat and are ripped like a MMA banterweight, I dont know how anyone could possibly say that improving overall fitness will NOT improve cycling.

    Im not fitness expert, but it just doesnt make sense to me.

    Finally, and not to be argumentive, but having years and years of experience training in the gym for semi-pro football, rugby, and US Army Infantry field deployments, I can assure you that you absolutely CAN replicate "pushing your limits" in the gym. Is it the exact same as the circumstance where you will use the extra "push", like that last 10 meters of a long uphill climb? No of course not. But again, your overall ability to overcome fatigue in your body can be strengthened in the gym. I have done it many many many times. Not only the physical ability to push just a bit harder, but the mental ability as well.

    Thanks. Just my 2 cents. Im no pro biker and im lucky if i have 17% body fat so i cant claim to know for sure if my beliefs translate to mountain biking. I just dont see how they couldnt....
  • 01-10-2013
    limba
    You guys don't have to quote each other. Especially if the other expert wrote a book.