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  1. #1
    Always pushing harder!!!
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    Training for the whole next season...on a trainer?!?!?

    Big dilemma!!!

    I switched jobs, so from now on, my free time in the mornings or afternoons has been greatly reduced. I lost an hour in the mornings and almost two hours in the afternoon...(at least job security is better, and $$$ should improve also). All this means, that heading into winter, while sun light time grows shorter, I will have to do most of my training indoors...So imagine this, 8 hours during weekdays on a trainer...indoors...I can't possibly imagine if I will be able to do some proper training. I still have weekends to do long rides, and also plan to use the gym and run more frequently, but I wonder if doing almost everything indoors on a trainer can yield positive and consistent results. I'm also planning on finally going the Power Meter way, and I consider that a plus, but I'm still skeptical about all of this. I had higher goals planned for next season, so those of you with more experience on this, please advice on this matter.

    Thanks in advance...

  2. #2
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    If you can prevent burnout, trainer is more consistent.

    I read somewhere that Carmichael Training has his riders reduce ride time by 20% indoors vs outdoors to get pretty close to the same workload, no stop signs, downhills, etc

    I know some fast Cat 1 guys who do trainer intervals year round for that reason.

    8 hours a week on trainer can be a lot.

    I have a TV with training videos and good fans. Last winter all I did was SST and Threshold workouts.

  3. #3
    Registered Dietitian
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    Quote Originally Posted by carlostruco View Post
    Big dilemma!!!

    I switched jobs, so from now on, my free time in the mornings or afternoons has been greatly reduced. I lost an hour in the mornings and almost two hours in the afternoon...(at least job security is better, and $$$ should improve also). All this means, that heading into winter, while sun light time grows shorter, I will have to do most of my training indoors...So imagine this, 8 hours during weekdays on a trainer...indoors...I can't possibly imagine if I will be able to do some proper training. I still have weekends to do long rides, and also plan to use the gym and run more frequently, but I wonder if doing almost everything indoors on a trainer can yield positive and consistent results. I'm also planning on finally going the Power Meter way, and I consider that a plus, but I'm still skeptical about all of this. I had higher goals planned for next season, so those of you with more experience on this, please advice on this matter.

    Thanks in advance...
    Welcome to what the rest of us have to deal with

    Yes, you can get a lot done on the trainer. My winter routine is usually:

    1) Monday off
    2) Tuesday trainer intervals
    3) Wednesday night MTB ride with lights
    4) Same as Tuesday
    5) Same as Monday

    2 long rides on the weekend, well, one at least

    Trainer rides are usually very early am before work while daughter is still asleep.
    Works very well. 8-12 hours/week depending.

  4. #4
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    Bike commute with lights!! You're in PR, so it's nice and warm. Screw the trainer.
    Head Coach, Ben Lomond HS MTB Team
    www.utahmtb.org
    Cycling Team and local Club:
    http://www.roostersbikersedge.com/

  5. #5
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    What category are you training for, and what's your experience? I'm considering a different job as well, with my current job (self employed, but work quite a few hours like most of the self employed) I can eat half a sandwich as I'm getting ready for a ride, and eat the other half when I get back, -taking my lunch break on my bike. It also keeps me away from fast food and I can usually ride 2 or 3 times a week mid-day. I would really miss that flexibility, and I find the trainer to be mind numbing. In our dead of winter it gets dark at about 4:30 pm, I rode regularly through the last 2 winters and really enjoyed being out by myself on the mtb in the cold damp mid-day.
    Maybe getting on a structured program like Carmichaels Time Crunched would help with the trainer workouts?

  6. #6
    Dirty South Underdog
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    Quote Originally Posted by tommyrod74 View Post
    1) Monday off
    2) Tuesday trainer intervals
    3) Wednesday night MTB ride with lights
    4) Same as Tuesday
    5) Same as Monday

    2 long rides on the weekend, well, one at least
    This...

    Reserve the trainer for either a quick 30-60 minute recovery spin or a short (60-90 min), very focused interval workout. Long, drawn out trainer rides are what make people swear the trainer off.
    Brickhouse Blog (most known unknown)

    Just Riding Along- best internet radio show on Mountain Bike Radio

  7. #7
    Always pushing harder!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poncharelli View Post
    Bike commute with lights!! You're in PR, so it's nice and warm. Screw the trainer.
    Ponch...I work in a suit and tie!!!

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by carlostruco View Post
    Ponch...I work in a suit and tie!!!
    Oh, that can take some planning to coordinate. Having showers and packing clothes at work is the key. But I only bike commute 2-3 days out of 5 per week. I also take bike on the train in the morn therefore no need for a shower. Plus PR humidity is pretty high, so sweating could be a problem in your area.

    It can be a PITA. But I see a lot of guys who ride with ties in the morning (I'm one of the few in full lycra), but our weather is cool and dry up here.
    Last edited by Poncharelli; 09-03-2013 at 01:33 PM.
    Head Coach, Ben Lomond HS MTB Team
    www.utahmtb.org
    Cycling Team and local Club:
    http://www.roostersbikersedge.com/

  9. #9
    Always pushing harder!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimPacNW View Post
    What category are you training for, and what's your experience? I'm considering a different job as well, with my current job (self employed, but work quite a few hours like most of the self employed) I can eat half a sandwich as I'm getting ready for a ride, and eat the other half when I get back, -taking my lunch break on my bike. It also keeps me away from fast food and I can usually ride 2 or 3 times a week mid-day. I would really miss that flexibility, and I find the trainer to be mind numbing. In our dead of winter it gets dark at about 4:30 pm, I rode regularly through the last 2 winters and really enjoyed being out by myself on the mtb in the cold damp mid-day.
    Maybe getting on a structured program like Carmichaels Time Crunched would help with the trainer workouts?
    I race in Master A (UCI Class...maybe Cat 1 in the US...)

    Sunlight will go down at the same time I will be getting home from work, and sunlight will come up at least with an hour spare...so maybe two days will do some good for me. I can handle the trainer as long as I have something good to watch on Tv or some good race videos...

  10. #10
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    if you have 2 hrs in the afternoon you can acieve quite a bit, especially if youre mixing in intervals.

    all interval training can be done in ~2 hrs.

  11. #11
    Fat-tired Roadie
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    One of my teammates does almost all his training on a trainer year-round. I'd have a hard time with that.

    I don't mind riding at night, at least on the road. Haven't tried it with the MTB yet. Get a powerful light. It's actually quite peaceful, which is nice.
    "Don't buy upgrades; ride up grades." -Eddy Merckx

  12. #12
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    Training for the whole next season...on a trainer?!?!?

    Doing the majority of your riding on a turbo trainer is do-able. The main thing is to keep it interesting.

    A couple of suggestions would be to have a turbo trainer and a set of rollers. They're both indoor cycling but by using different setups it gives a different feel for variety, especially as you still have to think about balancing on the rollers.

    If you're going to be putting serious time in then a high end turbo trainer, such as a Wahoo! KICKR, which allows you to control the resistance via an app and ride an onscreen training route could help too. Dcrainmaker has lots of good articles and reviews on the subject of turbo trainers. With a Wahoo! KICKR you can load up nearby strava segments for example and ride them as a training route.

    http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2013/03/f...er-review.html

    http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2013/08/a...-segments.html

    http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2013/08/b...ner-kickr.html

    I'm riding every day on the turbo trainer currently (still building up from my broken leg after a year off the bike) and what I'm doing at the moment is 3 days of steady state riding, then a hard day, then another 3 days steady state, then a hard day and so on. That way the hard days are something to look forwards to.

    The hardest thing I find with turbo training is if you try and do intervals or hard rides every single day. It fries your brain completely, even if your legs are willing. The lower intensity 1 hour to 1h30 turbo training sessions give a mental break whilst still adding to the weekly totals. The steady state rides are done at a solid endurance pace (hard enough that it's not easy to talk but still relaxed and comfortable turning the pedals over) rather than level 1 recovery rides . If I need a rest I'll take a day off completely, not a low intensity turbo ride.

    Riding at night with lights isn't too bad. Get some high quality lights front and rear, apply reflective tape on the bike and wear reflective clothing if you're riding on the road for visibility. Fit the toughest tyres you can (to avoid punctures) and night riding can make for some interesting rides and fun experiences.

  13. #13
    Always pushing harder!!!
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    I have a Kurt Kinetic that only sees the bike when I work late or its raining...One thing we all hate is the boredom of the trainer, but that will not be problem as I start training when the NFL season is on full bore and the NBA is just starting...I used to love getting on the bike and pedal as much as I could while watching games or reruns on some games I missed...

    hammy56, I lost those two hours in the afternoon...

    As for night riding, I will get some light and also have a safe place to do so...its a 5 mile straight with running and bike lanes. That is usually my training grounds on weekdays, but I've had two crashes there at night with people who make that place their racetrack...kind of wrote off night rides there after that...but maybe I can do two-a-days squeezing in one hour in the evenings...

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by carlostruco View Post
    hammy56, I lost those two hours in the afternoon...
    oops...too many beers when I read your post.

  15. #15
    Always pushing harder!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by hammy56 View Post
    oops...too many beers when I read your post.
    been there a few times...

  16. #16
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    Training for the whole next season...on a trainer?!?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by carlostruco View Post
    I have a Kurt Kinetic that only sees the bike when I work late or its raining...One thing we all hate is the boredom of the trainer, but that will not be problem as I start training when the NFL season is on full bore and the NBA is just starting...I used to love getting on the bike and pedal as much as I could while watching games or reruns on some games I missed...
    Boredom is the wrong way to look at it, as that has negative connotations. An alternative approach would be to view turbo training as a way of testing your strength, both physically and mentally.

    Just like with long road rides, riding on the turbo trainer I'll tell stories, sing songs to myself and also make a point of breaking the ride into smaller achievable goals. At the moment I'm aiming to drink every 5 minutes during the turbo session so reaching each 5 minute drink point is my aim. I try to never think about reaching the end of the session, only that next drink before resetting my internal clock and starting over for the next 5 minutes.

    Watching TV is something I'd struggle with as I tend to spend a lot of the time with my eyes closed, visualising rides that I've done in the past. The sweat, rapid heartbeat, dizziness, blurred vision and other similar symptoms encountered whilst turbo training make it difficult to see anyway.

    You'd have laughed today. I was doing my turbo training at the back of the house and there's normally a bit of a breeze and a little shade there. Only today it was direct blazing sunshine. I was sweating buckets and cooking from early on. It's a pretty good example of how heat stress affects your heart rate. You can see how my heart rate is climbing throughout, even riding at a fairly low constant work rate. At 50 minutes I was feeling it enough to decide to shift back down a gear, which didn't make much difference really.

    I might as well have done the final 11 minutes on the higher gear, the failing today being more mental than physical. After getting off the bike my legs were fine.




  17. #17
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    During the winter I have to train indoors exclusively. This year my base (14-16 hours per week) happened all indoors. It takes some mental strength to do it, but what choice do we have in Canada? And having structured workouts by riding outdoors in the cold, dark winter is impossible, IMHO.

    I do have a nice CycleOps 300 Pro with a power meter, so the feed back, training plans, intervals are probably as good as I could get on any outdoor ride. Staring at a wall is the hard part.

    I only listen to music and lose myself in the rhythms of reggae, salsa and other Caribbean music. No TV necessary for me, and I probably could not concentrate on TV anyway.
    My rides:
    Lynskey Ti Pro29 SL singlespeed
    GF Superfly 29er HT
    S-Works Roubaix SL3 Dura Ace
    Pake French 75 track

  18. #18
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    I would highly suggest using TrainerRoad/Netflix for indoor workouts. I used it last winter when riding outside was unattractive and watched many a TV series (Prison Break/movies) while doing their structured ftp interval workouts. If you don't have a ant+ Power Meter, you just need a Garmin Speed/Cadence sensor+ ant dongle for your computer (Maybe 60-70 bucks from amazon). Having power feedback on a trainer is a must in my opinion... They also have a variety of plans/schedule/rides to choose from so I never had to make up an interval plan. They have designed their SW to integrate nicely with netflix and use audio cues to let you know when an interval is coming up/ending... Nice, helpful guys run the company as well...

    trainerroad.com

  19. #19
    Always pushing harder!!!
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    I'm taking notes on everything you guys suggest...longer working hours have me missing time outdoors, but I have to look at the big picture...better and more toys in the future!!!

    Music? I need better headphones as the one I have violate my ears...TV and past races on Youtube/Rebull.tv are my best friends...I even have specific races for when I need that extra power and motivation...like the 2012 Mens XC Olympics and stages 18 and 19 of the 2011 TdF...If those battles don't pump you up, you have no emotions!!!

  20. #20
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    Training for the whole next season...on a trainer?!?!?

    One thing that I find helps when turbo training is saddle choice. On my mountain bike I have a Specialized Romin pro 143mm width saddle. That works well outdoors but on the turbo trainer I prefer a more padded saddle.

    On my turbo training bike I currently have a Specialized Avatar comp gel saddle 143mm width.

    http://www.specialized.com/gb/gb/ftb...vatar-comp-gel

    That has quite a bit of padding which for the purpose of sitting and pedalling on a stationary bike I tend to like more than a firm saddle. It still has the central cut out too for avoiding numbness. Every time I speak to one of my friend's and mention turbo training regularly he's always like "you must be really struggling with numbness doing all that turbo training." My reply being "no, I chose a saddle with a cut out so don't have any issues."

    If you haven't got some already Castelli Bodypaint bib shorts have a really good chamois pad for added comfort too.

    http://castelli-cycling.com/en/products/detail/603/

    A nice workout that I usually do fairly regularly on the turbo trainer is this one by Andrew Coggan (wattage figures are only examples)

    "Seriously, the best season I've had in recent years followed a winter
    during which I did the following '90/90'90' workout 3 d/wk:

    5 min w/u
    20 min @ 275 W
    5 min easy
    5 min @ 325 W
    2.5 min easy
    5 min @ 325 W
    2.5 min easy
    0.5 min at 500 W
    2 min easy
    0.5 min at 500 W
    2 min easy
    0.5 min at 500 W
    2 min easy
    0.5 min at 500 W
    2.5 min easy
    5 min warm-down

    The '90/90/90' refers to the fact that (almost by chance) the powers
    used were about 90% of the best that I could produce for that duration
    when at peak fitness. That made the session challenging enough that I
    didn't lose too much fitness over the winter, but not so hard that I
    ever dreaded the workout or burned out from doing it."
    Andrew Coggan

    This is how my version looks in Garmin Connect if you're creating a workout. I have longer warmup and cool down periods.



    This is how the interval workout appears as a recorded graph from my ride today. The varied changes of pace and count down timers help to make the time go quickly too. As a direct comparison with sessions I'd do when fully fit it wasn't pretty. There's a yawning chasm between then and now still. Trying to sprint my legs were blocks of lead, just really stiff and reluctant to lift the pace.

    17 September 2011 (fully fit)
    1x20min 85rpm 42x17
    2x5min 92rpm 42x15
    4x30sec sprints 110rpm 42x14

    04 September 2013
    1x20min 82rpm 42x19
    2x5min 78 rpm 42x17
    4x30sec sprints 100rpm 42x19


  21. #21
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    Very much second trainerroad.com. I use it with the Sufferfest vids during the week and love the difficulty and focus they provide.

    Try it - you'll like it.

  22. #22
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    Get as many of the Sufferfest videos as you can afford. They are so much more entertaining than anything else out there and they are not super expensive.

  23. #23
    Always pushing harder!!!
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    WR304- I do have to change my saddle...most of my rides on the trainer are done in my road bike and I hate the saddle it has...but I haven't had the time to look out and try new saddles...

    As for The Sufferfest vids, I'm seriously considering them...

    trainerroad.com? Might try it, but since I'm going to invest in a PM for my road bike anyway, I just my skip it for the moment...even though, I have it as an option...

  24. #24
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    Training for the whole next season...on a trainer?!?!?

    Specialized do a 30 day trial offer on their body geometry saddles:

    http://www.specialized.com/gb/gb/news/latest-news/11227

    Saddles are one of those things where everyone has their own preferences. Even saddles from the same manufacturer can vary widely in shape and suitability. I like Romin saddles outdoors (standard shape rather than the Romin evo) and this Avatar comp gel seems to work too as a turbo trainer saddle but I can't stand the current style of the Phenom saddle at all. It was firmly in the "ass hatchet" category for me.

    With Specialized saddles you have the three different width fittings too. According to the measurements I should ride a 155mm width saddle. I tried one a few years but went back down to a 143mm width saddle as that suited me a lot better.

    http://www.specialized.com/specs/spe...eometrysaddles

    On the turbo trainer I aim to try and stay seated as long as possible from the start of the session (usually the entire first hour), just concentrating on riding. If you're getting in and out of the saddle from early on that starts you thinking about sitbone discomfort, which is a bad thing. By staying seated there's merely a constant dull pressure on your sitbones that you can ignore as it's less than the discomfort in your legs of pedalling hard (not a very good description.)

    If you're getting sharp saddle soreness pain from friction (much harder to ignore), that's something to sort out with changes to position (maybe a lower saddle height on the turbo trainer bike than you'd use outdoors to reduce any hip rocking), along with plenty of chamois cream.

  25. #25
    Always pushing harder!!!
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    All my MTB saddles are Specialized...my road saddle is the one I hate...Fizik Antares...

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