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  1. #1
    Always pushing harder!!!
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    Training for the whole next season...on a trainer?!?!?

    Big dilemma!!!

    I switched jobs, so from now on, my free time in the mornings or afternoons has been greatly reduced. I lost an hour in the mornings and almost two hours in the afternoon...(at least job security is better, and $$$ should improve also). All this means, that heading into winter, while sun light time grows shorter, I will have to do most of my training indoors...So imagine this, 8 hours during weekdays on a trainer...indoors...I can't possibly imagine if I will be able to do some proper training. I still have weekends to do long rides, and also plan to use the gym and run more frequently, but I wonder if doing almost everything indoors on a trainer can yield positive and consistent results. I'm also planning on finally going the Power Meter way, and I consider that a plus, but I'm still skeptical about all of this. I had higher goals planned for next season, so those of you with more experience on this, please advice on this matter.

    Thanks in advance...

  2. #2
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    If you can prevent burnout, trainer is more consistent.

    I read somewhere that Carmichael Training has his riders reduce ride time by 20% indoors vs outdoors to get pretty close to the same workload, no stop signs, downhills, etc

    I know some fast Cat 1 guys who do trainer intervals year round for that reason.

    8 hours a week on trainer can be a lot.

    I have a TV with training videos and good fans. Last winter all I did was SST and Threshold workouts.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by carlostruco View Post
    Big dilemma!!!

    I switched jobs, so from now on, my free time in the mornings or afternoons has been greatly reduced. I lost an hour in the mornings and almost two hours in the afternoon...(at least job security is better, and $$$ should improve also). All this means, that heading into winter, while sun light time grows shorter, I will have to do most of my training indoors...So imagine this, 8 hours during weekdays on a trainer...indoors...I can't possibly imagine if I will be able to do some proper training. I still have weekends to do long rides, and also plan to use the gym and run more frequently, but I wonder if doing almost everything indoors on a trainer can yield positive and consistent results. I'm also planning on finally going the Power Meter way, and I consider that a plus, but I'm still skeptical about all of this. I had higher goals planned for next season, so those of you with more experience on this, please advice on this matter.

    Thanks in advance...
    Welcome to what the rest of us have to deal with

    Yes, you can get a lot done on the trainer. My winter routine is usually:

    1) Monday off
    2) Tuesday trainer intervals
    3) Wednesday night MTB ride with lights
    4) Same as Tuesday
    5) Same as Monday

    2 long rides on the weekend, well, one at least

    Trainer rides are usually very early am before work while daughter is still asleep.
    Works very well. 8-12 hours/week depending.

  4. #4
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    Bike commute with lights!! You're in PR, so it's nice and warm. Screw the trainer.
    Head Coach, Ben Lomond HS MTB Team
    www.utahmtb.org
    Cycling Team and local Club:
    http://www.roostersbikersedge.com/

  5. #5
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    What category are you training for, and what's your experience? I'm considering a different job as well, with my current job (self employed, but work quite a few hours like most of the self employed) I can eat half a sandwich as I'm getting ready for a ride, and eat the other half when I get back, -taking my lunch break on my bike. It also keeps me away from fast food and I can usually ride 2 or 3 times a week mid-day. I would really miss that flexibility, and I find the trainer to be mind numbing. In our dead of winter it gets dark at about 4:30 pm, I rode regularly through the last 2 winters and really enjoyed being out by myself on the mtb in the cold damp mid-day.
    Maybe getting on a structured program like Carmichaels Time Crunched would help with the trainer workouts?

  6. #6
    Dirty South Underdog
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    Quote Originally Posted by tommyrod74 View Post
    1) Monday off
    2) Tuesday trainer intervals
    3) Wednesday night MTB ride with lights
    4) Same as Tuesday
    5) Same as Monday

    2 long rides on the weekend, well, one at least
    This...

    Reserve the trainer for either a quick 30-60 minute recovery spin or a short (60-90 min), very focused interval workout. Long, drawn out trainer rides are what make people swear the trainer off.
    Brickhouse Blog (most known unknown)

    Just Riding Along- best internet radio show on Mountain Bike Radio

  7. #7
    Always pushing harder!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poncharelli View Post
    Bike commute with lights!! You're in PR, so it's nice and warm. Screw the trainer.
    Ponch...I work in a suit and tie!!!

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by carlostruco View Post
    Ponch...I work in a suit and tie!!!
    Oh, that can take some planning to coordinate. Having showers and packing clothes at work is the key. But I only bike commute 2-3 days out of 5 per week. I also take bike on the train in the morn therefore no need for a shower. Plus PR humidity is pretty high, so sweating could be a problem in your area.

    It can be a PITA. But I see a lot of guys who ride with ties in the morning (I'm one of the few in full lycra), but our weather is cool and dry up here.
    Last edited by Poncharelli; 09-03-2013 at 01:33 PM.
    Head Coach, Ben Lomond HS MTB Team
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  9. #9
    Always pushing harder!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimPacNW View Post
    What category are you training for, and what's your experience? I'm considering a different job as well, with my current job (self employed, but work quite a few hours like most of the self employed) I can eat half a sandwich as I'm getting ready for a ride, and eat the other half when I get back, -taking my lunch break on my bike. It also keeps me away from fast food and I can usually ride 2 or 3 times a week mid-day. I would really miss that flexibility, and I find the trainer to be mind numbing. In our dead of winter it gets dark at about 4:30 pm, I rode regularly through the last 2 winters and really enjoyed being out by myself on the mtb in the cold damp mid-day.
    Maybe getting on a structured program like Carmichaels Time Crunched would help with the trainer workouts?
    I race in Master A (UCI Class...maybe Cat 1 in the US...)

    Sunlight will go down at the same time I will be getting home from work, and sunlight will come up at least with an hour spare...so maybe two days will do some good for me. I can handle the trainer as long as I have something good to watch on Tv or some good race videos...

  10. #10
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    if you have 2 hrs in the afternoon you can acieve quite a bit, especially if youre mixing in intervals.

    all interval training can be done in ~2 hrs.

  11. #11
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    One of my teammates does almost all his training on a trainer year-round. I'd have a hard time with that.

    I don't mind riding at night, at least on the road. Haven't tried it with the MTB yet. Get a powerful light. It's actually quite peaceful, which is nice.
    "Don't buy upgrades; ride up grades." -Eddy Merckx

  12. #12
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    Training for the whole next season...on a trainer?!?!?

    Doing the majority of your riding on a turbo trainer is do-able. The main thing is to keep it interesting.

    A couple of suggestions would be to have a turbo trainer and a set of rollers. They're both indoor cycling but by using different setups it gives a different feel for variety, especially as you still have to think about balancing on the rollers.

    If you're going to be putting serious time in then a high end turbo trainer, such as a Wahoo! KICKR, which allows you to control the resistance via an app and ride an onscreen training route could help too. Dcrainmaker has lots of good articles and reviews on the subject of turbo trainers. With a Wahoo! KICKR you can load up nearby strava segments for example and ride them as a training route.

    http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2013/03/f...er-review.html

    http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2013/08/a...-segments.html

    http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2013/08/b...ner-kickr.html

    I'm riding every day on the turbo trainer currently (still building up from my broken leg after a year off the bike) and what I'm doing at the moment is 3 days of steady state riding, then a hard day, then another 3 days steady state, then a hard day and so on. That way the hard days are something to look forwards to.

    The hardest thing I find with turbo training is if you try and do intervals or hard rides every single day. It fries your brain completely, even if your legs are willing. The lower intensity 1 hour to 1h30 turbo training sessions give a mental break whilst still adding to the weekly totals. The steady state rides are done at a solid endurance pace (hard enough that it's not easy to talk but still relaxed and comfortable turning the pedals over) rather than level 1 recovery rides . If I need a rest I'll take a day off completely, not a low intensity turbo ride.

    Riding at night with lights isn't too bad. Get some high quality lights front and rear, apply reflective tape on the bike and wear reflective clothing if you're riding on the road for visibility. Fit the toughest tyres you can (to avoid punctures) and night riding can make for some interesting rides and fun experiences.

  13. #13
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    I have a Kurt Kinetic that only sees the bike when I work late or its raining...One thing we all hate is the boredom of the trainer, but that will not be problem as I start training when the NFL season is on full bore and the NBA is just starting...I used to love getting on the bike and pedal as much as I could while watching games or reruns on some games I missed...

    hammy56, I lost those two hours in the afternoon...

    As for night riding, I will get some light and also have a safe place to do so...its a 5 mile straight with running and bike lanes. That is usually my training grounds on weekdays, but I've had two crashes there at night with people who make that place their racetrack...kind of wrote off night rides there after that...but maybe I can do two-a-days squeezing in one hour in the evenings...

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by carlostruco View Post
    hammy56, I lost those two hours in the afternoon...
    oops...too many beers when I read your post.

  15. #15
    Always pushing harder!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by hammy56 View Post
    oops...too many beers when I read your post.
    been there a few times...

  16. #16
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    Training for the whole next season...on a trainer?!?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by carlostruco View Post
    I have a Kurt Kinetic that only sees the bike when I work late or its raining...One thing we all hate is the boredom of the trainer, but that will not be problem as I start training when the NFL season is on full bore and the NBA is just starting...I used to love getting on the bike and pedal as much as I could while watching games or reruns on some games I missed...
    Boredom is the wrong way to look at it, as that has negative connotations. An alternative approach would be to view turbo training as a way of testing your strength, both physically and mentally.

    Just like with long road rides, riding on the turbo trainer I'll tell stories, sing songs to myself and also make a point of breaking the ride into smaller achievable goals. At the moment I'm aiming to drink every 5 minutes during the turbo session so reaching each 5 minute drink point is my aim. I try to never think about reaching the end of the session, only that next drink before resetting my internal clock and starting over for the next 5 minutes.

    Watching TV is something I'd struggle with as I tend to spend a lot of the time with my eyes closed, visualising rides that I've done in the past. The sweat, rapid heartbeat, dizziness, blurred vision and other similar symptoms encountered whilst turbo training make it difficult to see anyway.

    You'd have laughed today. I was doing my turbo training at the back of the house and there's normally a bit of a breeze and a little shade there. Only today it was direct blazing sunshine. I was sweating buckets and cooking from early on. It's a pretty good example of how heat stress affects your heart rate. You can see how my heart rate is climbing throughout, even riding at a fairly low constant work rate. At 50 minutes I was feeling it enough to decide to shift back down a gear, which didn't make much difference really.

    I might as well have done the final 11 minutes on the higher gear, the failing today being more mental than physical. After getting off the bike my legs were fine.




  17. #17
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    During the winter I have to train indoors exclusively. This year my base (14-16 hours per week) happened all indoors. It takes some mental strength to do it, but what choice do we have in Canada? And having structured workouts by riding outdoors in the cold, dark winter is impossible, IMHO.

    I do have a nice CycleOps 300 Pro with a power meter, so the feed back, training plans, intervals are probably as good as I could get on any outdoor ride. Staring at a wall is the hard part.

    I only listen to music and lose myself in the rhythms of reggae, salsa and other Caribbean music. No TV necessary for me, and I probably could not concentrate on TV anyway.
    My rides:
    Lynskey Ti Pro29 SL singlespeed
    KHS Team 29
    S-Works Roubaix SL3 Dura Ace
    KHS CX 550 cyclocross

  18. #18
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    I would highly suggest using TrainerRoad/Netflix for indoor workouts. I used it last winter when riding outside was unattractive and watched many a TV series (Prison Break/movies) while doing their structured ftp interval workouts. If you don't have a ant+ Power Meter, you just need a Garmin Speed/Cadence sensor+ ant dongle for your computer (Maybe 60-70 bucks from amazon). Having power feedback on a trainer is a must in my opinion... They also have a variety of plans/schedule/rides to choose from so I never had to make up an interval plan. They have designed their SW to integrate nicely with netflix and use audio cues to let you know when an interval is coming up/ending... Nice, helpful guys run the company as well...

    trainerroad.com

  19. #19
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    I'm taking notes on everything you guys suggest...longer working hours have me missing time outdoors, but I have to look at the big picture...better and more toys in the future!!!

    Music? I need better headphones as the one I have violate my ears...TV and past races on Youtube/Rebull.tv are my best friends...I even have specific races for when I need that extra power and motivation...like the 2012 Mens XC Olympics and stages 18 and 19 of the 2011 TdF...If those battles don't pump you up, you have no emotions!!!

  20. #20
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    Training for the whole next season...on a trainer?!?!?

    One thing that I find helps when turbo training is saddle choice. On my mountain bike I have a Specialized Romin pro 143mm width saddle. That works well outdoors but on the turbo trainer I prefer a more padded saddle.

    On my turbo training bike I currently have a Specialized Avatar comp gel saddle 143mm width.

    http://www.specialized.com/gb/gb/ftb...vatar-comp-gel

    That has quite a bit of padding which for the purpose of sitting and pedalling on a stationary bike I tend to like more than a firm saddle. It still has the central cut out too for avoiding numbness. Every time I speak to one of my friend's and mention turbo training regularly he's always like "you must be really struggling with numbness doing all that turbo training." My reply being "no, I chose a saddle with a cut out so don't have any issues."

    If you haven't got some already Castelli Bodypaint bib shorts have a really good chamois pad for added comfort too.

    http://castelli-cycling.com/en/products/detail/603/

    A nice workout that I usually do fairly regularly on the turbo trainer is this one by Andrew Coggan (wattage figures are only examples)

    "Seriously, the best season I've had in recent years followed a winter
    during which I did the following '90/90'90' workout 3 d/wk:

    5 min w/u
    20 min @ 275 W
    5 min easy
    5 min @ 325 W
    2.5 min easy
    5 min @ 325 W
    2.5 min easy
    0.5 min at 500 W
    2 min easy
    0.5 min at 500 W
    2 min easy
    0.5 min at 500 W
    2 min easy
    0.5 min at 500 W
    2.5 min easy
    5 min warm-down

    The '90/90/90' refers to the fact that (almost by chance) the powers
    used were about 90% of the best that I could produce for that duration
    when at peak fitness. That made the session challenging enough that I
    didn't lose too much fitness over the winter, but not so hard that I
    ever dreaded the workout or burned out from doing it."
    Andrew Coggan

    This is how my version looks in Garmin Connect if you're creating a workout. I have longer warmup and cool down periods.



    This is how the interval workout appears as a recorded graph from my ride today. The varied changes of pace and count down timers help to make the time go quickly too. As a direct comparison with sessions I'd do when fully fit it wasn't pretty. There's a yawning chasm between then and now still. Trying to sprint my legs were blocks of lead, just really stiff and reluctant to lift the pace.

    17 September 2011 (fully fit)
    1x20min 85rpm 42x17
    2x5min 92rpm 42x15
    4x30sec sprints 110rpm 42x14

    04 September 2013
    1x20min 82rpm 42x19
    2x5min 78 rpm 42x17
    4x30sec sprints 100rpm 42x19


  21. #21
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    Very much second trainerroad.com. I use it with the Sufferfest vids during the week and love the difficulty and focus they provide.

    Try it - you'll like it.

  22. #22
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    Get as many of the Sufferfest videos as you can afford. They are so much more entertaining than anything else out there and they are not super expensive.

  23. #23
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    WR304- I do have to change my saddle...most of my rides on the trainer are done in my road bike and I hate the saddle it has...but I haven't had the time to look out and try new saddles...

    As for The Sufferfest vids, I'm seriously considering them...

    trainerroad.com? Might try it, but since I'm going to invest in a PM for my road bike anyway, I just my skip it for the moment...even though, I have it as an option...

  24. #24
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    Training for the whole next season...on a trainer?!?!?

    Specialized do a 30 day trial offer on their body geometry saddles:

    http://www.specialized.com/gb/gb/news/latest-news/11227

    Saddles are one of those things where everyone has their own preferences. Even saddles from the same manufacturer can vary widely in shape and suitability. I like Romin saddles outdoors (standard shape rather than the Romin evo) and this Avatar comp gel seems to work too as a turbo trainer saddle but I can't stand the current style of the Phenom saddle at all. It was firmly in the "ass hatchet" category for me.

    With Specialized saddles you have the three different width fittings too. According to the measurements I should ride a 155mm width saddle. I tried one a few years but went back down to a 143mm width saddle as that suited me a lot better.

    http://www.specialized.com/specs/spe...eometrysaddles

    On the turbo trainer I aim to try and stay seated as long as possible from the start of the session (usually the entire first hour), just concentrating on riding. If you're getting in and out of the saddle from early on that starts you thinking about sitbone discomfort, which is a bad thing. By staying seated there's merely a constant dull pressure on your sitbones that you can ignore as it's less than the discomfort in your legs of pedalling hard (not a very good description.)

    If you're getting sharp saddle soreness pain from friction (much harder to ignore), that's something to sort out with changes to position (maybe a lower saddle height on the turbo trainer bike than you'd use outdoors to reduce any hip rocking), along with plenty of chamois cream.

  25. #25
    Always pushing harder!!!
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    All my MTB saddles are Specialized...my road saddle is the one I hate...Fizik Antares...

  26. #26
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    I tried a Fi'zi:k Antares saddle once a few years ago. It was on a Giant Anthem X demo bike that I had for a weekend. It didn't really suit me. Did you see that Fi'zi:k have released a 29er specific saddle now?

    Fizik 2014 Cyrano Bull/Snake/Chameleon Handlebars, Volta Saddle, Thar And Tritone Saddles And M3 And M5 Shoes - Eurobike 2013 - BikeRadar

    An interval session that I quite like, and also one that works well on a turbo trainer, are Carmichael Under Over intervals. The Carmichael Under Over intervals are made up of two minutes below threshold, followed by one minute above threshold. That's then repeated three times per 9 minute interval, although you can do lots of different variations.

    Over Under Intervals refer to individual minutes. A typical interval set would consist of 3 intervals of 9 minutes each with 6 minutes rest between each interval. Each 9 minute interval is then broken down into 1 minute at Steady State Interval pace, followed by 1 Minute Steady State Interval pace then 1 minute at Climbing Repeat Pace repeated 3 times. It's really an Under Over Interval as the highest intensity is always done last.

    i.e: a 9 minute interval would be: (1min SS, 1min SS, 1min CR) (1min SS, 1min SS, 1min CR) (1min SS, 1min SS, 1min CR)

    - 10 minutes riding at your Endurance Miles pace RPE:5 (warmup)
    - Interval 1: 9 minutes total (2 minutes Steady State Interval, 1 minute at a higher intensity Climbing Repeat Interval) repeated 3 times
    - 6 minutes rest spinning gently
    - Interval 2: 9 minutes total (2 minutes Steady State Interval, 1 minute at a higher intensity Climbing Repeat Interval) repeated 3 times
    - 6 minutes rest spinning gently
    - Interval 3: 9 minutes total (2 minutes Steady State Interval, 1 minute at a higher intensity Climbing Repeat Interval) repeated 3 times
    - 6 minutes rest spinning gently
    - 5 minutes Endurance Miles pace RPE:5 (cooldown)

    I used cadence for creating the workout in Garmin Connect, although with a power meter you'd use that instead.



    Have a look at this Carmichael Training Systems PDF file which describes the Carmichael test protocol and also sets out the different training zones. This PDF is exactly the same wording as in the Time Crunched Cyclist Book.

    http://www.trainright.com/assets/dow...ptions2010.pdf

    When you're doing intervals with constant short changes in intensity like these Over Under intervals, especially outdoors, you're basically going to be riding them on perceived exertion anyway. It isn't easy to get them so you have clearly defined under and over sections with a heart rate monitor. With a heart rate monitor you have to consider the lag between effort and heart rate response.

    "Over Under Intervals

    Training Intensities for Over Unders
    RPE: 9
    HR: 92-94% (Under) of highest CTS Field Test average alternating with 95-97% (Over)
    Power 86-90% (Under) of highest CTS Field Test average alternating with 95-100% (Over)

    Over Under Intervals are a more advanced form of Steady State Intervals. The "Under" intensity is your Steady state range, and the "Over" intensity is your Climbing Repeat range. By alternating between these two intensity levels during a sustained interval, you develop the "agility" to handle changes in pace during hard, sustained efforts. More specifically, the harder surges within the interval generate more lactate in your muscles, and then you force your body to process this lactate while you're still riding at a relatively high intensity. This workout can be performed on a flat road, rolling hills, or a sustained climb that's relatively gradual (3 to 6 percent grade). It is difficult to accomplish this workout on a steep climb, because the pitch often makes it difficult to control your effort level. Your gearing should be moderate, and pedal cadence should be high (90 rpm or higher) if you're riding on flat ground or small rollers. Pedal cadence should be above 85rpm if you're completing the intervals on a gradual climb.
    To complete the interval, bring your intensity up to your Steady State range during the first 45 to 60 seconds. Maintain this heart rate intensity for the prescribed Under time and then increase your intensity to your Over intensity for the prescribed time. At the end of this Over time, return to your Under intensity range and continue at this level of effort until it's once again time to return to your Over intensity. Continue alternating this way until the end of the interval.
    Over Under Intervals always end with a period of Over intensity. Recovery periods between intervals are typically about half the length of the work interval. Note: A more advanced version of this interval would alternate between Steady State and Power Interval intensities instead of Steady State and Climbing Repeat intensities."
    Pages 119-120 The Time Crunched Cyclist By Chris Carmichael

    Here's how the workout appears overall. The trick is to remember that you're not actually going flat out on the 1 minute over sections. It's a case of bringing up the intensity so it's uncomfortable without going overboard. I find this workout helps for dealing with short bursts and changes of pace.


  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poncharelli View Post
    Bike commute with lights!! You're in PR, so it's nice and warm. Screw the trainer.
    If PR is safe at night....agreed with Ponch for sure!! ^^

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrea138 View Post
    This...

    Reserve the trainer for either a quick 30-60 minute recovery spin or a short (60-90 min), very focused interval workout. Long, drawn out trainer rides are what make people swear the trainer off.
    This
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  29. #29
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    Training for the whole next season...on a trainer?!?!?

    It may not be as fun as riding outdoors but for getting fitness results turbo training is a great tool as it takes away the excuses. Doing 8 hours per week on the turbo trainer might actually see you start next season with better form than you would otherwise.

    Something I'm always struck by when doing sustained turbo training day in and day out is that it gives a decent return for the time that you spend on it, much better than riding outdoors usually. Compared to riding outdoors you're not messing around freewheeling or forced to ease off due to terrain. An hour on the turbo trainer is an hour of solid riding. Outdoor rides (especially offroad or in groups) frequently involve significant amounts of freewheeling and soft pedalling which hurts the amount of quality work that you're actually doing.

    You could even try doing 7 days a week purely on the turbo trainer, which is what I'm doing at the moment. I've done 31 turbo training sessions in the last 34 days (7 hours 51 minutes this week) after starting from absolute zero and the results are really starting to show. I'm not fully fit but the initial aches and pains from inactivity are long gone. Recovery is infinitely better too. It's been a big jump in fitness in a relatively short time. Doing 5 minute intervals today (part of the Coggan workout, same format as 4 September 2013 in post #20) I held 81rpm 42x17 for both 5 minute intervals (up 3rpm on 4 September 2013! ) and managed to average 104rpm for all four 30 second sprints also. There was even some "zing" when trying to sprint which was encouraging.

    When I had to do the same thing in 2008 previously (5 weeks on the turbo initially and then moving onto riding outdoors after a long break due to health issues) it was during the turbo trainer phase that I saw the most rapid improvements. In contrast it took a lot more volume outdoors to keep seeing any small improvement and avoid plateauing.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by WR304 View Post
    It may not be as fun as riding outdoors but for getting fitness results turbo training is a great tool as it takes away the excuses. Doing 8 hours per week on the turbo trainer might actually see you start next season with better form than you would otherwise.

    Something I'm always struck by when doing sustained turbo training day in and day out is that it gives a decent return for the time that you spend on it, much better than riding outdoors usually. Compared to riding outdoors you're not messing around freewheeling or forced to ease off due to terrain. An hour on the turbo trainer is an hour of solid riding. Outdoor rides (especially offroad or in groups) frequently involve significant amounts of freewheeling and soft pedalling which hurts the amount of quality work that you're actually doing.

    You could even try doing 7 days a week purely on the turbo trainer, which is what I'm doing at the moment. I've done 31 turbo training sessions in the last 34 days (7 hours 51 minutes this week) after starting from absolute zero and the results are really starting to show. I'm not fully fit but the initial aches and pains from inactivity are long gone. Recovery is infinitely better too. It's been a big jump in fitness in a relatively short time. Doing 5 minute intervals today (part of the Coggan workout, same format as 4 September 2013 in post #20) I held 81rpm 42x17 for both 5 minute intervals (up 3rpm on 4 September 2013! ) and managed to average 104rpm for all four 30 second sprints also. There was even some "zing" when trying to sprint which was encouraging.

    When I had to do the same thing in 2008 previously (5 weeks on the turbo initially and then moving onto riding outdoors after a long break due to health issues) it was during the turbo trainer phase that I saw the most rapid improvements. In contrast it took a lot more volume outdoors to keep seeing any small improvement and avoid plateauing.
    At some point during the season I will eventually be able to ride during the week outdoors...its only 4 days indoors so it might not be that bad (my off days are Fridays)

    I know I will manage, but I do have to focus myself and enjoy!!!

  31. #31
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    I did most (80%) of my rides on the trainer a couple years ago. It was a wet Fall and Frigid winter. I stayed consistent riding the trainer 5 days per week. I didn't do anything over 1:30 hours. When it was time to ride on the trails, I was at the front on just about every ride. Yes, others were relegated to not riding due to conditions. That race season I missed the podium in Cat2 by one in my class. We had a four man team towards the end of that season and got second place overall! This is all due to just riding 8 hours on the trainer.

    I plan on doing this again this year and next when the weather turns bad or when I can't ride outside.
    I just like riding my mountain bike.

  32. #32
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    well, PM is on the way...that should simplify (or complicate) things a bit...

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    Training for the whole next season...on a trainer?!?!?

    It's been a while but I finally decided to replace the handlebar tape on my turbo trainer bike. The turbo trainer bike is the remnants of my race bike from 1999. It had a double wrap of old tape from sometime in the 1990s which was crumbling away.

    I've got some Specialized gel bar phat tape on now, to go with the gel saddle for turbo training. This bar tape has a gel pad and then padded bar tape over the top, which seems nice and hopefully more comfortable than the previous tape too. It's the first time in ages that I've done any handlebar wrapping. It took a couple of goes to get a fairly tidy finish.

    http://www.specialized.com/gb/gb/ftb...metry-bar-phat



    I'm really trying to learn from 2008 this time and keep doing regular turbo sessions, in preference to purely riding outdoors, as a way of making sure I'm doing enough structured work. The few outdoor rides that I've done so far on the mountain bike are a bit inconsistent quality wise at the moment, either forced to go very hard just to get up the hills or pootling. The turbo trainer gives more control over what I want to achieve. Compare this extract from a road ride last week with the turbo trainer graphs above. Where the yellow power trace drops right down is where I was freewheeling or easing off, whether in traffic, recovering or on the descent.

    Last edited by WR304; 09-23-2013 at 10:53 AM.

  34. #34
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    WR304 - Great info here, thanks.

    FWIW, I must be in the strong minority but I don't mind trainer rides at all. A couple winters ago I decided to work on my SS'ing on the trainer. Would routinely do 3hr+ rides in a difficult gear. Got to the point I could stand for 45 minutes at a time (lots of weird looks from the wife). Was the strongest spring I've ever had. I've got a dedicated workout room with fan, tv, etc so it's pretty easy to put something long on TV (sports or movies) and zone out a bit.

    Also a fan of the Specialized saddles. Have the Avater gel 155mm on every bike except one (29er has romin evo). Love their shoes and grips also, hate their bikes

  35. #35
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    Trainer rides are as fun as you make them...I'll watch anything...from football to basketball to surfing and bike races...but definitely, it has to be sports...

    Imagine watching some sitcom and craking a laugh on big interval...

  36. #36
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    Training for the whole next season...on a trainer?!?!?

    There are some varied turbo trainer workouts here that might work quite well for mixing up your turbo training sessions.

    http://www.cycleops.com/en/training/...-workouts.html

    If you're doing different workouts week to week it helps keep everything fresher and more interesting, as opposed to just grinding out the same routine all winter.

  37. #37
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    I really hate giving away my training secrets but cyclo-core.com's cyclo90HIT program is legit.

    That's that all I have to say about that.
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  38. #38
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    Training for the whole next season...on a trainer?!?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by irishpitbull View Post
    I really hate giving away my training secrets but cyclo-core.com's cyclo90HIT program is legit.

    That's that all I have to say about that.
    There are a million different interval workouts and you think you have secrets. Too funny.


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  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by serious View Post
    There are a million different interval workouts and you think you have secrets. Too funny.


    Sent from iPhone with Tapatalk
    It's far from just interval workouts, sparky.
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  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by rydbyk View Post
    If PR is safe at night....agreed with Ponch for sure!! ^^
    PR its not even safe during the day, much less at night!!! Family's peace of mind comes first...

  41. #41
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    Training for the whole next season...on a trainer?!?!?

    This graph shows one of the interval sessions that I've been doing on the turbo trainer, only riding outdoors for a good comparison. If you look at the graph in Post #20 you can how this interval session appears on the turbo trainer.



    When you're riding on the road it's much harder to maintain a constant effort. Changes in terrain, junctions, bends etc all get in the way. If you look at the 20 minute interval you can see where I had to freewheel a couple of times at junctions. On the downhill section I was finding it hard to keep the power output high enough also. I was in between gears so it was a case of mashing or over revving, neither being quite right.

    Along with the more varied work periods I was backing off a lot more on the rest periods between sets than I would on the turbo trainer. On the turbo trainer you have to keep pedalling or you stop, whilst outdoors I was sitting up.

    My problem at the moment is short bursts of power. During the four 30 second sprints the best I managed was just 331 watts (someone like Mark Cavendish can manage I think it's 1,500 watts plus in a sprint) I wasn't feeling too bad today though and was starting to get into it towards the end.

    The entire ride was 2h20min, 37 miles, average speed 15.9mph, average power 171 watts, average heart rate 142bpm making it the best overall that I've done so far this year.

  42. #42
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    As the OP, my new job limits my outdoor riding and I'm forced to train indoors during the fall winter and spring during the week. I get up early before work to hit the rollers and I feel they have been very been beneficial to me. The constant pedaling with no coasting makes for a strong training response even at zone 2. Rollers, IMO, make indoor workouts way funner than a trainer. I haven't touched my turbo trainer since getting rollers... just in a different league. Weekend training will find me outdoors when weather is conducive. But yeah, if you are serious about your cycling goals, which you are, then training indoors even if it includes all your weekday training is totally possible. A couple things that help is reminding myself of my season goals constantly and doing a group indoor group ride when possible.
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    Quote Originally Posted by carlostruco View Post
    Imagine watching some sitcom and craking a laugh on big interval...
    If you can get the joke and laugh, your not doing the big interval correctly

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    I've seen rollers mentioned a few times in this thread. I have a fluid trainer now. Can anyone suggest a good roller setup that won't break the bank?

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    Quote Originally Posted by trailbrain View Post
    I've seen rollers mentioned a few times in this thread. I have a fluid trainer now. Can anyone suggest a good roller setup that won't break the bank?
    I bought these from performance 2-3 weeks ago and have been using 3-4 times a week, no problems - bought based on good reviews
    Travel Trac Technique PRO Alloy Rollers -

  46. #46
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    I'm a week into my first winter of training on a turbo trainer. I bought a kurt kinetic rock and roll and a speed/cadence sensor last week and signed up for trainerroad. I did this because I got sick of having my ass handed to me doing Masters 35+ cat 1/2/3/4 CX races and the temperature suddenly dropped where I live. I've done 6 sessions so far and it's not as boring as I thought it would be, in fact I look forward to the workouts.

    I had a wind trainer years ago and hated the thing but I didn't know what I was doing or how to use it properly. I also hate riding when it gets cold and would end up at the gym doing the treadmill and/or elliptical machine just to get in some type of cardio.

    I have never done any type of structured training in 20+ years of cycling and managed to find success but don't think I have come close to maximizing my potential. CX really showed me my weaknesses and I knew I needed to do things differently this year.

    Trainerroad is a godsend it gave me a starting point and plenty of workouts to choose from. I'm planning on doing it 2 days during the week working on my weaknesses with addition rides on the weekend either on the trainer or outdoors weather permitting. I also crosstrain 3 days per week with upper body strength training, running, and the elliptical machine.

    The variety seems to be helping me. I made my biggest gains in cycling once I started running on a regular basis. The addition of the turbo trainer also helped because I'm not dreading the gym as much and I like the workouts that trainerroad offers. Hopefully this lasts and improves my cycling when racing starts.

  47. #47
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    So far, I'm loving this...I'm even looking forward to working out on the trainer at home during the week. I've watched so many races that I'm even more pumped than ever to start my season again!!!

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by carlostruco View Post
    So far, I'm loving this...I'm even looking forward to working out on the trainer at home during the week. I've watched so many races that I'm even more pumped than ever to start my season again!!!
    No offense meant by this, but I think you are sick in the head.

    Sometimes I would rather be kicked in the nuts then ride the trainer.
    "The best pace is suicide pace, and today is a good day to die." Steve Prefontaine

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMN View Post
    No offense meant by this, but I think you are sick in the head.

    Sometimes I would rather be kicked in the nuts then ride the trainer.
    None taken!!!
    Long corporate hours don't allow me to ride outdoors during weekdays, and a recent hit-and-run spree has me not venturing out for night rides. I run daily to the gym for 1 hour and head back for another hour on the trainer...in a strange way, it keeps me sane...

    Besides, something is better than nothing...keeps me motivated to see results...

  50. #50
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    Training for the whole next season...on a trainer?!?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by carlostruco View Post
    a recent hit-and-run spree has me not venturing out for night rides.
    That sounds like a fun place to live.

    I haven't been doing any proper night riding but on Sunday's I've been setting off early, before sunrise with headlights on, in order to get back home earlier. Last Sunday as I climbed up onto the Cotswolds there was a light mist just hanging across the fields and then I was treated to a beautiful red sunrise as the sun rose over the horizon ahead. The most dangerous bit was avoiding the suicidal squirrels and maniac deer who were determined to cross the country lanes no matter what!

    Two hours into the ride it started raining and I got soaked for the remainder of the day but it had been nice until then.

    Today was freezing fog, so thick you couldn't even see to the end of the garden, so I did an hour of intervals on the turbo trainer instead at the back of the house. Without any windchill an outdoors temperature of 6c was just about right and it was a good session.

    The trick with turbo training, I think, is to keep it fresh and change what you do frequently. So long as you mix up the timings and intensities, instead of grinding out the same routine every time, it can be something to look forwards to. It's when you get stuck in a rut of repetition that turbo training becomes unpleasant and boring.

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