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  1. #1
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    Training with a smart trainer. Tell me what you do.

    Hey all. Sold off one of my extra bikes and got an Elite Direto smart trainer. Just got it hooked up last night. I am new to the world of trainers and am curious what you all do for your training regimen.
    How many times per week and how often are you riding? Do you have any tips and tricks for using a trainer and how to convert the hard work on the trainer to actual riding?
    I occasionally do fat biking in the winter but probably only 1x 2x a week. Hoping this will help me come spring time a bit. Thanks in advance.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Training with a smart trainer. Tell me what you do.-20171108_205943-1-.jpg  


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    Not really training specific but I've been finding some of the Crit racing on Zwift really good fun. Some of the GPS data based climbs available on the Tacx website are good too.

  3. #3
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    Experiment with ERG mode (where you don't have to shift and the power varies based on what workout you selected--this means as long as you keep pedaling you do the workout so you can watch tv or whatever) and more interactive stuff like Zwift where you shift gears etc so its more like a real ride.

    ERG high intensity intervals are great on the trainer IMO. Best use of the trainer for me. Very easy interface in Zwift to create an interval session--could be better but it's simple enough.

    Get a fan. I lose at least 20% off FTP without a fan, it's insane. I think if you don't have a fan you can't train as hard and thus probably don't get as good a training benefit.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by litany View Post
    Get a fan. I lose at least 20% off FTP without a fan, it's insane. I think if you don't have a fan you can't train as hard and thus probably don't get as good a training benefit.
    This is great advice. Don't hop on it without a fan unless you're gonna put the trainer outside in the snow.

  5. #5
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    I tend to do my weekday rides in the morning and they tend to be more structured which lends itself to a smart trainer. I prefer using TrainerRoad for the workout creator and go with either music or a movie to fill in the deadspace. On my Monday or Tuesday recovery ride I'll just ride on zwift since it's pretty brainless.

    Echoing others, I have 3 fans - a gigantic one from Amazon that blows everything that isn't nailed down (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1) and two smaller ones that I can aim at my head or wherever I feel I need it. In my experience, the fans you'll get from Target/walmart/Home Depot aren't quite sufficient at moving enough air to keep you cool.

    If I remember you had some threads earlier but I don't remember if you were looking for more "fun" or if you have structure in your offseason.

    Along with Zwift take a look at Trainer Road, Sufferfest and PerfPro. All of these will control your trainer. Some have content (zwift & sufferfest) others are methods of controlling the trainer in Erg mode. I use Zwift and TrainerRoad although this winter I'll likely ditch Zwift for Sufferfest. I find zwift a little lacking in content and don't like the workout creator - especially since it only stores the workouts on the local computer. Rambling now

  6. #6
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    Thanks for the tips all. Had my first ride with my trainer over my lunch break today. Apart from my rear derailleur popping the chain off of the right gear (I will adjust limiter screws tonight), it works pretty well.
    I noticed with Zwift there is some lag from the point where you start pedaling hard to the point where you start moving and showing the extra watts on the screen. Is that normal?
    As far as the the fans go. I am learning that the hard way. I was drenched in sweat and my basement where I keep the trainer is generally pretty cold this time of year. Might have to invest in more fans or a better fan.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt Disney's Frozen Head View Post
    I tend to do my weekday rides in the morning and they tend to be more structured which lends itself to a smart trainer. I prefer using TrainerRoad for the workout creator and go with either music or a movie to fill in the deadspace. On my Monday or Tuesday recovery ride I'll just ride on zwift since it's pretty brainless.

    Echoing others, I have 3 fans - a gigantic one from Amazon that blows everything that isn't nailed down (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1) and two smaller ones that I can aim at my head or wherever I feel I need it. In my experience, the fans you'll get from Target/walmart/Home Depot aren't quite sufficient at moving enough air to keep you cool.

    If I remember you had some threads earlier but I don't remember if you were looking for more "fun" or if you have structure in your offseason.

    Along with Zwift take a look at Trainer Road, Sufferfest and PerfPro. All of these will control your trainer. Some have content (zwift & sufferfest) others are methods of controlling the trainer in Erg mode. I use Zwift and TrainerRoad although this winter I'll likely ditch Zwift for Sufferfest. I find zwift a little lacking in content and don't like the workout creator - especially since it only stores the workouts on the local computer. Rambling now
    Wrong. I own the fan linked below and it literally puts out double the CFM (6,100 vs 3,190) at less than half the price: https://www.homedepot.com/p/20-in-3-...500B/202757016

  8. #8
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    I use TrainerRoad for structured training and I throw in the occasional Zwift race to keep things sharp. I never just ride around on Zwift.

  9. #9
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    Same as Udyr above. I'm a TrainerRoad believer. It's easy to follow and well structured.
    NOAH SEARS
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  10. #10
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    Zwift for longish z2 rides indoors for me - I find it a never-ending grind doing z2 while watching movies etc with Trainerroad etc but maybe its just me.

    Indoor training at a super-steady medium to high z2 power made a big difference for me this year.

  11. #11
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    Gonna tag along on this one with a ďwhat youĒ question. My Kickr will be waiting once we get back home from the farm. The wife has asked me to pick out what I need to start.

    She already knows TrainerRoad... gonna grab some shoes (I currently only have trail shoes) and some attire (I currently only have baggy trail wear).

    Any recommendations on bibs/jerseys that will be comfortable for long periods in such a static position? Maybe even bibs since they stay cooler and in some cases cheaper than piecing together a bib/jersey combo?

    Thanks for the input...

  12. #12
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    ^^^
    I like
    1)Hincapie
    2)Voler
    Preferably with flat laying leg seams (2" wide) at leg end. (Not sure I described that right...)
    Ebay

  13. #13
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    I (***TMI warning!!!) sweat like a mother****er so if I don't start riding before the thermostat starts warming up the house I'll wear "liner" type bibs (like these from Pactimo) that have mesh panels - the sorts that you wouldn't wear as your only layer out in the real world.

    for tops, I'll start off with one and get rid of it somewhere during my warmup.

  14. #14
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    As a newb learning the ropes, I have found a few things work for me. I have two fans. One that oscillates and one that is a concentrated fan used by cleanup companies who have to dry carpets after floods. It works real well.
    I don't bother with cycle specific clothing since it's just me in my basement. I will take my shirt off if I get too hot.
    Again I am not the most-experienced with this but after a few sessions I think I am getting it down.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by zgxtreme View Post
    Gonna tag along on this one with a ďwhat youĒ question. My Kickr will be waiting once we get back home from the farm. The wife has asked me to pick out what I need to start.

    She already knows TrainerRoad... gonna grab some shoes (I currently only have trail shoes) and some attire (I currently only have baggy trail wear).

    Any recommendations on bibs/jerseys that will be comfortable for long periods in such a static position? Maybe even bibs since they stay cooler and in some cases cheaper than piecing together a bib/jersey combo?

    Thanks for the input...
    Spend money on the bibs and just skip the jersey when riding inside

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Udyr View Post
    Spend money on the bibs and just skip the jersey when riding inside
    +1.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Udyr View Post
    Spend money on the bibs and just skip the jersey when riding inside
    Was gonna but the wifey gave me a $1000 allowance so figured Iíd get the racing kit at the same time to get double the use.

    Was also thinking of using this time to try some of the items from Cuore and Pactimo in the event I got something custom in the future. Was looking at these for the rotation and only one of the choices at hand; https://www.cuore.ch/eu/en/mens-heat...uit-10265.html

    Will definitely just get a good set of bibs though per your recommendations.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt Disney's Frozen Head View Post
    I (***TMI warning!!!) sweat like a mother****er so if I don't start riding before the thermostat starts warming up the house I'll wear "liner" type bibs (like these from Pactimo) that have mesh panels - the sorts that you wouldn't wear as your only layer out in the real world.

    for tops, I'll start off with one and get rid of it somewhere during my warmup.
    Is the Pactimo stuff good quality? Definitely out of my budget even on sale, but maybe I'll look again in other ocassion.

  19. #19
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    I really like the Pactimo stuff that I've had. we were on them for a year or two before switching to Jakroo (lower minimums and a pretty nice chamois but I like the "finish" of pactimo better). Every now and again they have coupons for 20% so that would be really nice for those liners ($65 or whatever less another 20%?).

    I've had them out on some longer rides without issue but chamois' are pretty personal like a saddle so ymmv.

  20. #20
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    +1 for Pactimo. I used to use other brands and now I exclusively use their stuff. It's really nice. I just got into their skinsuits, which I'll likely use exclusively next year.

    On the fan issue, I use this from Home Depothttps://www.homedepot.com/p/Lasko-Pr...5600/206468230. It pivots (manually) and has two outlets on the side, which helped me bridge my outlet to the trainer, which was too far without some sort of extension. The fan is no joke. I typically run it on 1...on a Zwift race last night I had it on 3 with another fan added to it. It won't evaporate all the sweat but it makes a huge difference.

  21. #21
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    I have been watching/listening to Podcasts in splitscreen mode. Definitely gets me in a weird mental mode when I am sweating like crazy and actively listening. Usually on long rides outside I kind of zone out and let my brain go into autopilot mode.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Training with a smart trainer. Tell me what you do.-20171113_171044.jpg  


  22. #22
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    Big fan of Trainerroad here. Coming from a previously unstructured training routine to Trainerroad was a game changer. Honestly I'm amazed in the difference it made. As a competitive person I don't like saying how much it helped because it almost feels like a secret weapon.

  23. #23
    DLd
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    I use the structured training plans on Zwift. I never just ride around in Zwift. I think the Workout mode in Zwift is sort of the best of both worlds, you get structured training like you would in TR, but instead of just staring at a graph you have the graphics, and passing other people and such for motivation. Having the visual indicators for the start and end of intervals is nice too. Instead of just waiting for a timer to count down, you can see the end of the interval as a big glowing ring on the road, so you can focus on just reaching that instead worrying about a timer. This is the plan I followed mostly last year, and I ended up on the podium in all my races (one win too!), including a couple of the Epic Rides races. https://whatsonzwift.com/workouts/12...-plan-advanced

    You can see all the other training plans on offer at Zwift on there too. They're all included with the Zwift membership, so nothing else to buy. I only wish I had started training a few weeks earlier. I also missed 10 days of training in February due to moving. Still, my best season yet, and I attribute it to training with Zwift.
    Fall is here. Woo-hoo!

  24. #24
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    FYI for anyone who has subscriptions to both TR and Zwift, you can run TR on your phone if you have a bluetooth power meter, and just stream the power data to Zwift over Ant +

    Gives you something to look at for the long zone 2 boring workouts.

  25. #25
    DLd
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    Here is what workout mode looks like in Zwift by the way. You can see the ring for the end of the interval on the map in the upper right corner, if I had waited till it was closer to take the screenshot you'd see it in the view as a big glowing ring across the road. I'm lucky I remembered to grab a screenshot at all at 400W. The power graph is along the bottom with different colors for the different zones. HR is the red line along the bottom. Upper center shows target wattage and time left for the current interval, along with current power, HR, cadence, etc.

    Training with a smart trainer. Tell me what you do.-zwiftscreenshot.jpg

    I have it in first-person view, so you can't see my rider, it's like looking through my rider's eyes. I find that the most engaging, but there are lots of different camera angles you can choose.
    Fall is here. Woo-hoo!

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by DLd View Post
    Here is what workout mode looks like in Zwift by the way. You can see the ring for the end of the interval on the map in the upper right corner, if I had waited till it was closer to take the screenshot you'd see it in the view as a big glowing ring across the road. I'm lucky I remembered to grab a screenshot at all at 400W. The power graph is along the bottom with different colors for the different zones. HR is the red line along the bottom. Upper center shows target wattage and time left for the current interval, along with current power, HR, cadence, etc.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I have it in first-person view, so you can't see my rider, it's like looking through my rider's eyes. I find that the most engaging, but there are lots of different camera angles you can choose.
    Have they fixed the connection dropouts for workout mode on Zwift? I haven't used it for a long time because every time I would use their workout mode it would drop out frequently.

  27. #27
    DLd
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    Quote Originally Posted by Udyr View Post
    Have they fixed the connection dropouts for workout mode on Zwift? I haven't used it for a long time because every time I would use their workout mode it would drop out frequently.
    I haven't experienced any connection dropouts during Workout mode, so I would guess they have. If you're not having dropouts sending your ANT+ data to it, then I wouldn't expect there to be dropouts during workout mode. I'm not sure what you mean by that since I haven't experienced it. I do have my ANT+ dongle plugged into a 6ft USB extension cable as recommended so it lies on the ground right next to the trainer. I guess there could be connection issues between certain trainers and ANT+ dongles depending on where they're located, although that wouldn't have anything to do with Zwift. I would guess it's probably just something that's been fixed along the way. They're always improving things. They recently added group workouts and this new Jungle riding area.
    Fall is here. Woo-hoo!

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by DLd View Post
    I haven't experienced any connection dropouts during Workout mode, so I would guess they have. If you're not having dropouts sending your ANT+ data to it, then I wouldn't expect there to be dropouts during workout mode. I'm not sure what you mean by that since I haven't experienced it. I do have my ANT+ dongle plugged into a 6ft USB extension cable as recommended so it lies on the ground right next to the trainer. I guess there could be connection issues between certain trainers and ANT+ dongles depending on where they're located, although that wouldn't have anything to do with Zwift. I would guess it's probably just something that's been fixed along the way. They're always improving things. They recently added group workouts and this new Jungle riding area.
    The connection from my Quarq was fine, but the connection from my Kickr to have Zwift control the resistance was unreliable to the point of being unusable, even with an extension cord and trying multiple difference connection methods. TR has always worked flawlessly in this regard which is why I continue to use it for workouts.

    I still get the occasional oddity during Zwift races over Ant FE-C, although it seems somewhat more reliable.

  29. #29
    DLd
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    Quote Originally Posted by Udyr View Post
    The connection from my Quarq was fine, but the connection from my Kickr to have Zwift control the resistance was unreliable to the point of being unusable, even with an extension cord.
    Huh, iDevice or PC? If you still have the subscription to both I would just give it a shot and see. I use it with the Garmin ANT+ dongle and a Windows laptop. All control and data via ANT+, so it controls the trainer via ANT+ FE-C. No bluetooth. I have a Garmin speed/cadence sensor on the bike as well, so it reads cadence off of that. Garmin ANT+ HR strap as well.
    Fall is here. Woo-hoo!

  30. #30
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    I have my Garmin Ant+ dongle about 10' away from my Cycleops Hammer and haven't had any connection issues in zwift or trainer road. They say to put it under your mat but it works fine for me where it is.

    Sometimes the USB port matters--some USB ports are somewhat underpowered and can cause trouble or are on a controller that isn't great. Although the dongle should have such minimal power requirements you'd think it would be fine, I'd give another port a try. If you are on a desktop try a different bank of USB ports as they may be on an entirely different controller with a different driver.

  31. #31
    DLd
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    Quote Originally Posted by litany View Post
    I have my Garmin Ant+ dongle about 10' away from my Cycleops Hammer and haven't had any connection issues in zwift or trainer road. They say to put it under your mat but it works fine for me where it is.

    Sometimes the USB port matters--some USB ports are somewhat underpowered and can cause trouble or are on a controller that isn't great. Although the dongle should have such minimal power requirements you'd think it would be fine, I'd give another port a try. If you are on a desktop try a different bank of USB ports as they may be on an entirely different controller with a different driver.
    Yeah, my ports are on the back of my laptop, so I figured with all that electronic stuff in the way the extension would be a good idea. Also, I just didn't want to dick with it, and lose a workout troubleshooting so I just ponied up the $5-6 for the cable right away.

    Anyway, here's a pic of one of the glowing rings for the end of an interval, the color indicates the zone of the next interval, so it looks like I was heading into a Zone 2 (blue) segment to recover. The screen also shows the graphics effect, the blurring and such, that the program does to indicate the end of a hard effort. To show how hard you're working. It does match up with about how I feel at the end of a hard effort, all blurry-eyed and grunting.
    Training with a smart trainer. Tell me what you do.-zwiftscreenshot2.jpg
    Fall is here. Woo-hoo!

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by GnarBrahWyo View Post
    I noticed with Zwift there is some lag from the point where you start pedaling hard to the point where you start moving and showing the extra watts on the screen. Is that normal?
    You might be on a 5 second or 3 second average power, you can change it in the settings to instantaneous.

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    I'm using the same computrainer I've used since the 90's and I'm running zwift on a PC. There is a TV with a roku so I can access "stuff to watch" and a phone or ipad to adjust things on zwift without getting off of the bike. A Vornado fan and a decent sound system with a big sub and I'm pretty happy. Oh yeah, a little table next to the bike for food and drink and some towels.

    I trained a lot on it winter 2015/2016 for the TransIowa, working up to a 5 hr ride once or twice every week. Now I'm more into road time trials so doing the structured workouts....12 week ftp builder right now.

    I actually like training on the computer better than the road because of stop signs, cars, dogs, etc. I can get a better workout in less time with fewer risks so I'm a big fan of indoor training.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Training with a smart trainer. Tell me what you do.-pain-cave.jpg  


  34. #34
    eri
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    I used trainerroad on phone to drive my trainer last winter. The software and plans were good but I would prefer to avoid a subscription.

    Started using golden cheetah to track my fatigue for races, then noticed the training mode...

    Now I have a used original surface pro ($150), a ble dongle to trainer, output to a 24" tv on my covered porch. Golden cheetah has a terrific workout creator, I use a paper notepad to schedule workouts. I'm quite satisfied with it and its free and has terrific analysis, google drive sync, strata upload, etc ...

    Recently I tried something new, I opened an 'rlv' in golden cheetah, its a GPS course synchronized to video, while it was dark and raining here I rode the umbrail pass and over to the stelvio on a bluebird morning. I stayed in a high gear and the ride felt just like a hard singlespeed climb. Funny thing for the rest of the day I felt like id actually ridden a cool pass in the alps. The completion time depends on my power output so will decrease as I get more fit.

    The pc, TV, ble dongle all cost money, but used has cost <$250. Uh... 5 years of intermittent trainerroad - d'oh!

    Also wrt fans, fans is no joke. my trainer is outside and I use 2 fans, one for face, another for chest, even in 40f there is a puddle of sweat when I'm done. Wish my fans had a remote.

    PS: I detest zwift, rubs me the wrong way, but free trail maybe you will love it!
    Last edited by eri; 11-19-2017 at 08:29 AM. Reason: added ps

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fastskiguy View Post
    I'm using the same computrainer I've used since the 90's ...
    THERE'S TWO OF US??? The things are almost indestructible

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    I've been using The Sufferfest the last couple years, as they have excellent training plans, and entertaining videos. Along with that, they have yoga, and mental training, which I have found nearly as important as the actual training itself. The people they have creating the training plans, are the same people who coach World Tour athletes, so the workouts are sadistically hard. Would recommend.

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    Training with a smart trainer. Tell me what you do.

    I too am interested in getting a smart trainer. Iím planning to get either a Kickr or Neo if by chance a decent deal comes up within the next couple days. I currently do not have a road bike nor have I ridden one but Iíve been considering getting one. I mainly ride my SS hard tail and I also have an SC Hightower. Iím hoping I can make due with either until I decide on the right road bike.

    My question is, do I get a cheap bike and just leave it on the trainer at all times or by a decent road bike $1k-$2k and use it mainly for the trainer with some road riding. My hopes are to get some of the road experience without having the dangers of being out on the roads where I live. If I go new and nicer I plan to do some test rides first to see what works for me. I also plan to go with a Zwift/computer setup.

  38. #38
    eri
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    I used an old 26Ē bike, now on my third year. Usually I run in erg mode so set quietest gear combo and leave it there. Iíve even used my ss on the trainer for fun. The trainer sets resistance so no need to shift. No need for brakes, no need for headset...

    Important thing is contact points in the right place, and youíll need a good seat. I am really tolerant of any seat but had big problems on the trainer until I found the right seat.

    If trainer is a common thing then I think too much hassle to remove for each ride.

    You can Use the ss at first while you look for a cheap bike that fits.
    the truth is always a gift because it offers the recipient of that information the chance to change the outcome - Grace Choi

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    Thanks for the feedback. Just pulled the trigger on a new Kickr for 20% off and I have all but decided on a Giant Contend New for about $350ish. ( I have a $250 off $500 credit at a local shop). Most of the used bikes on CL are pretty beat up for this price and since I can get this one for half off, it feels like a pretty good deal. Hopefully it's comfortable and if I decide I like road biking then I can get a nicer bike later. Gonna go look at them today.


    Quote Originally Posted by eri View Post
    I used an old 26Ē bike, now on my third year. Usually I run in erg mode so set quietest gear combo and leave it there. Iíve even used my ss on the trainer for fun. The trainer sets resistance so no need to shift. No need for brakes, no need for headset...

    Important thing is contact points in the right place, and youíll need a good seat. I am really tolerant of any seat but had big problems on the trainer until I found the right seat.

    If trainer is a common thing then I think too much hassle to remove for each ride.

    You can Use the ss at first while you look for a cheap bike that fits.

  40. #40
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    Added a few bits to me setup. Got a music stand, wireless keyboard/mouse and a cell phone holder on the bars. The music stands works real well and allows me to search for a new Youtube/Netflix video or whatever as I am riding. I would almost feel lazy if I weren't pedaling.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Training with a smart trainer. Tell me what you do.-20171121_163944.jpg  


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    I like the music stand idea.....Ok, I am building my list, most of which are already purchased, but looking for feedback on any other must haves:

    Wahoo Kickr
    Giant Contend Bike
    Front wheel Cyclops raised block
    Table for computer
    Computer
    TV
    Iphone
    Iphone mount
    Ant+ and 9 foot cord dongle
    A couple basic house fans (to start with)
    Yoga mat
    Headphones
    Wahoo HR monitor
    Zwift account

    Hoping to get it all setup mid next week.

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    I picked up one of these and it had been flawless https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...top_stand.html

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt Disney's Frozen Head View Post
    THERE'S TWO OF US??? The things are almost indestructible
    They sure are...though I wouldn't mind if mine died at this point, those direct mount trainers look really nice and the calibration is a bit of a pain. Still.....it's the best money I've ever spent on cycling for performance.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jakeg1999 View Post
    Thanks for the feedback. Just pulled the trigger on a new Kickr for 20% off and I have all but decided on a Giant Contend New for about $350ish. ( I have a $250 off $500 credit at a local shop). Most of the used bikes on CL are pretty beat up for this price and since I can get this one for half off, it feels like a pretty good deal. Hopefully it's comfortable and if I decide I like road biking then I can get a nicer bike later. Gonna go look at them today.
    Where did you get the 20 percent off?

    I am deciding between the elite direto, wahoo kickr, and cyclops hammer.

    I like the cyclops review but my ego doesn't like the fact that it reads lower than everything else. So I am leaning towards the wahoo despite the reviews that it is really hard to get started during short intervals.



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    Training with a smart trainer. Tell me what you do.

    I called backcountry.com and asked if they would still honor their 20% off one full priced item that they had going last week and they did.

    I was torn between the kickr and the Neo but the price difference sold me on the kickr.

  46. #46
    eri
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jakeg1999 View Post
    I called backcountry.com and asked if they would still honor their 20% off one full priced item that they had going last week and they did.

    I was torn between the kickr and the Neo but the price difference sold me on the kickr.
    Guys get on wahoos mailing list. They occasionally sell refurbished units with full warranty for much more than 20% off.

    The sales are infrequent and you need to move fast. They had one 2 weeks ago selling original kickr for $500. The 2016 kickr were $800.

    I waited 3 months before I got the email at 6am pst, I bought one, 90 minutes later they were gone.

    I donít know what anyone means about difficult to start short intervals...
    the truth is always a gift because it offers the recipient of that information the chance to change the outcome - Grace Choi

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    Quote Originally Posted by eri View Post
    Guys get on wahoos mailing list. They occasionally sell refurbished units with full warranty for much more than 20% off.

    The sales are infrequent and you need to move fast. They had one 2 weeks ago selling original kickr for $500. The 2016 kickr were $800.

    I waited 3 months before I got the email at 6am pst, I bought one, 90 minutes later they were gone.

    I donít know what anyone means about difficult to start short intervals...
    Thatís definitely good to know, but for this purchase I wanted one of the new versions that accommodates Boost. Iíll definitely get on their mailing list.

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    I'm in the same boat. I need to future proof this purchase. There is a good chance that I may never own a road bike since I train solo on the road on an MTB and group rides aren't a part of my riding schedule(hence no road bike needs)

    I would really like to get this purchase done Monday and for under 1 grand. I hope to have a trainer here by the end of the week so I can start a Trainer Road training plan to take me into the season which starts in February.

    I've never trained with power or done structured intervals.


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  49. #49
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    A shop local to me had a bunch of Kikr's for around $500-800 I believe. Think they were using them as demos or something. Call up Ride Cyclery in Encinitas if you are interested.

  50. #50
    eri
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    Here's the setup on my covered porch. Painting easel holds screen, my son made that tippy music stand thing which holds the surface pro running golden cheetah.

    That image on the screen stays in sync with my pedaling, which is really fun.

    Even when its cold and fans blowing there is a puddle of sweat when I'm done. Essential to have fans blowing fresh air.

    I don't know how people manage to actually train indoors.

    Training with a smart trainer. Tell me what you do.-traineronporch.jpg

    Funny that screen looks lots bigger when I'm on the bike.

    The fan, the bike and wind are all louder than the trainer.
    the truth is always a gift because it offers the recipient of that information the chance to change the outcome - Grace Choi

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by FJSnoozer View Post
    I'm in the same boat. I need to future proof this purchase. There is a good chance that I may never own a road bike since I train solo on the road on an MTB and group rides aren't a part of my riding schedule(hence no road bike needs)

    I would really like to get this purchase done Monday and for under 1 grand. I hope to have a trainer here by the end of the week so I can start a Trainer Road training plan to take me into the season which starts in February.

    I've never trained with power or done structured intervals.


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    Wahoo stuff 10% off today. https://www.clevertraining.com/cycle.../bike-trainers
    Fall is here. Woo-hoo!

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by eri View Post
    Here's the setup on my covered porch. Painting easel holds screen, my son made that tippy music stand thing which holds the surface pro running golden cheetah.

    That image on the screen stays in sync with my pedaling, which is really fun.

    Even when its cold and fans blowing there is a puddle of sweat when I'm done. Essential to have fans blowing fresh air.

    I don't know how people manage to actually train indoors.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	traineronporch.jpg 
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ID:	1169360

    Funny that screen looks lots bigger when I'm on the bike.

    The fan, the bike and wind are all louder than the trainer.
    Between your avatar that looks like Bob Ross and the painting easel setup, I have to wonder... Are you producing "The Joy of PaintingTraining"?

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by spsoon View Post
    Between your avatar that looks like Bob Ross and the painting easel setup, I have to wonder... Are you producing "The Joy of PaintingTraining"?
    Jeese it does look like Bob Ross... follow the link there is a sweet gif to set you straight:

    FX Renews Archerô For Three More Seasons
    the truth is always a gift because it offers the recipient of that information the chance to change the outcome - Grace Choi

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    Quote Originally Posted by DLd View Post
    Plus 12% off with active junky. Better than my 20% off on B Friday.

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    Not sure if i'm slow to the party on this one but I've just noticed that the Tacx cloud has rolled out the beta version on using your own GPX data to build workouts. This appears to let you load your GPX from a ride into the cloud and have it available to use again with your smart trainer as a workout?
    I rode a punchy 15mile loop at the weekend which would make an ideal trainer session, i'm looking forward to riding it again virtually to see how it compares.

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by DLd View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jakeg1999 View Post
    Plus 12% off with active junky. Better than my 20% off on B Friday.
    Thanks guys. It seems that I missed out on buying the cheaper 2016 Trainer and they have raised the price a lot on the 2017 version. I was out of the country so it made it extremely difficult to search for any sales in the US during last week.

    I use the make offer function on ebay and bought a Cyclops Hammer for 1000 shipped from a reputable seller. I am extremely excited to get some hard rides in during these Short days where I leave in the dark and come home after dark from work. My Winter training just got real.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kili-Ti View Post
    Not sure if i'm slow to the party on this one but I've just noticed that the Tacx cloud has rolled out the beta version on using your own GPX data to build workouts. This appears to let you load your GPX from a ride into the cloud and have it available to use again with your smart trainer as a workout?
    I rode a punchy 15mile loop at the weekend which would make an ideal trainer session, i'm looking forward to riding it again virtually to see how it compares.
    Is this available for others? I have GPX files of races and full first person videos of the course on youtube.

  57. #57
    eri
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kili-Ti View Post
    Not sure if i'm slow to the party on this one but I've just noticed that the Tacx cloud has rolled out the beta version on using your own GPX data to build workouts. This appears to let you load your GPX from a ride into the cloud and have it available to use again with your smart trainer as a workout?
    I rode a punchy 15mile loop at the weekend which would make an ideal trainer session, i'm looking forward to riding it again virtually to see how it compares.
    Golden cheetah also can convert rides (gpx, etc) into workouts.

    The app Iím most jealous of is the iPhone app ďFulgazĒ, has a great variety of beautiful rides and will sync the vert/location to Strava when youíre done.

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    I have an old Tacx Ergo trainer. I love the ERG mode for doing intervals but it has no connectivity. Trainer Road suggested getting A Wahoo blue tooth cadence and speed sensor and use their programs using 'virtual power'. They have mapped power curves for many trainers and with my cadence/speed they can say what power I am at and I can follow workouts in real time using their software and tracking. It would be limited to the non ergo mode probably and there is no control applied from the software to the trainer.

    Unfortunately, the Wahoo blue tooth sensor did not work. The cadence worked well but the speed sensor never did work, so sent it back.

    I was bummed and was going to start trainer road the next day. I am still thinking of trainer road and just following the plans manually with my Tacx ergo. It won't have any real time feed into the trainer road software, no power control or tracking and I'd be getting it for the plan, and future upgrade to a smart trainer
    Last edited by ashwinearl; 12-01-2017 at 06:00 AM.

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by eri View Post
    Golden cheetah also can convert rides (gpx, etc) into workouts.

    The app Iím most jealous of is the iPhone app ďFulgazĒ, has a great variety of beautiful rides and will sync the vert/location to Strava when youíre done.
    Have you ever tried the GC "convert rides into workouts"?

    Fulgaz sounds cool, but I am allready subscribed to 3 different cycling apps... (zwift, Strava and Xert)

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by ashwinearl View Post
    I have an old Tacx Ergo trainer. I love the ERG mode for doing intervals but it has no connectivity. Trainer Road suggested getting A Wahoo blue tooth cadence and speed sensor and use their programs using 'virtual power'. They have mapped power curves for many trainers and with my cadence/speed they can say what power I am at and I can follow workouts in real time using their software and tracking. It would be limited to the non ergo mode probably and there is no control applied from the software to the trainer.

    Unfortunately, the Wahoo blue tooth sensor did not work. The cadence worked well but the speed sensor never did work, so sent it back.

    I was bummed and was going to start trainer road the next day. I am still thinking of trainer road and just following the plans manually with my Tacx ergo. It won't have any real time feed into the trainer road software, no power control or tracking and I'd be getting it for the plan, and future upgrade to a smart trainer
    You must have gotten a bad sensor then, as I have used a Wahoo Blue SC for over a year now to do virtual power with The Sufferfest, and it has worked great. You might just try to get one that works, as it's a cheap way to get training targets, and is much cheaper than a smart trainer.

  61. #61
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    I've never been into doing turbo trainer rides but decided it was time to upgrade the turbo trainer from my old Tacx Sirius wheel on trainer (with an old road bike fitted) for something newer.

    If I was going to do that there were three things I really wanted to address:

    1. Comfort as there was a lot of vibration coming up through the rear wheel and frame on my old turbo trainer, resulting in saddle soreness and numbness. After an hour I'd be uncomfortable and ready to stop.
    2. Making indoor riding more interesting, so I'd actually be motivated enough to use it.
    3. Consistent resistance as the wheel on turbo trainer would noticeably change its resistance over the course of a ride.


    I ended up getting a Tacx Neo direct drive turbo trainer and put my old 2012 Specialized Epic mountain bike on it using the 142x12mm thru axle kit. It takes a little tweaking to fit a mountain bike on this turbo trainer. With a Shimano Ultegra 11-32 11 speed cassette the Shimano Deore XT M8000 rear gears had to be completely re-indexed (limit screws, b tension screw and cable tension) to get acceptable shifting. They do work though. In the picture you can see that a long cage rear derailleur just clears the bottom edge of the turbo trainer without rubbing.



    On the other side of the frame the rear shock brain has to be removed from the frame, the disc brake caliper is extremely close too.





    In use this combination of bike and turbo trainer has completely fixed my main complaint. The riding position on this bike was sorted to start with and the direct drive turbo trainer is missing the vibration of my old one, so that it's comfortable to sit on and pedal for several hours at a time, and ride it on consecutive days! The turbo trainer has some flex built in too, so the bike can rock from side to side as you pedal in a more natural manner. If anything it's more comfortable, with a smoother ride, than the same bike outdoors on tarmac!

    For making the rides more interesting I've been using the FulGaz IOS app on my Apple iPad Pro 10.5", connected by Bluetooth to control the turbo trainer, and riding the virtual routes on there. That works offline, without needing a wifi connection, so is handy for the garage. The connection has been very stable with no drops or issues at all.

    You can watch the videos here to see what they look like:

    The Rides ‚Äď FulGaz



    As you ride the turbo trainer changes resistance to match the gradient at that point on the course. The video on screen speeds up or slows down to reflect your speed. On the downhills the flywheel of the turbo trainer accelerates by itself! I've been quite enjoying them, as it's a chance to go and do rides in places I've never been to. Getting stuck at roadworks with temporary traffic lights whilst turbo training made me laugh. There are a lot of hills I'd be off and pushing up in real life too.

    The third aim, consistency, has been a bit mixed. The resistance seems the same between rides but the Tacx Neo's built in power meter doesn't track that well with my Power2Max cranks.



    The graph above shows a 10 minute extract of a virtual ride with the power and cadence readings from my Power2Max Type S overlaid with the Tacx Neo's built in power meter. Pedalling in the middle of the rear cassette the readings are about the same but as you shift up for downhills (large front chainring and smallest rear sprockets) the Power2Max cranks read 10 to 15 watts higher than the Tacx Neo. When shifting down for uphills (small front chainring and largest rear sprockets) the Tacx Neo reads 10 to 15 watts higher than the Power2Max cranks.

    I've run both my Power2Max Classic and Power2Max Type S cranks (two different power meters) on the same bike to compare against the Tacx Neo and there is the same difference to the Tacx Neo on both of them.

  62. #62
    DLd
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    Quote Originally Posted by WR304 View Post
    I've never been into doing turbo trainer rides but decided it was time to upgrade the turbo trainer from my old Tacx Sirius wheel on trainer (with an old road bike fitted) for something newer.

    If I was going to do that there were three things I really wanted to address:

    1. Comfort as there was a lot of vibration coming up through the rear wheel and frame on my old turbo trainer, resulting in saddle soreness and numbness. After an hour I'd be uncomfortable and ready to stop.
    2. Making indoor riding more interesting, so I'd actually be motivated enough to use it.
    3. Consistent resistance as the wheel on turbo trainer would noticeably change its resistance over the course of a ride.


    I ended up getting a Tacx Neo direct drive turbo trainer and put my old 2012 Specialized Epic mountain bike on it using the 142x12mm thru axle kit. It takes a little tweaking to fit a mountain bike on this turbo trainer. With a Shimano Ultegra 11-32 11 speed cassette the Shimano Deore XT M8000 rear gears had to be completely re-indexed (limit screws, b tension screw and cable tension) to get acceptable shifting. They do work though. In the picture you can see that a long cage rear derailleur just clears the bottom edge of the turbo trainer without rubbing.



    On the other side of the frame the rear shock brain has to be removed from the frame, the disc brake caliper is extremely close too.





    In use this combination of bike and turbo trainer has completely fixed my main complaint. The riding position on this bike was sorted to start with and the direct drive turbo trainer is missing the vibration of my old one, so that it's comfortable to sit on and pedal for several hours at a time, and ride it on consecutive days! The turbo trainer has some flex built in too, so the bike can rock from side to side as you pedal in a more natural manner. If anything it's more comfortable, with a smoother ride, than the same bike outdoors on tarmac!

    For making the rides more interesting I've been using the FulGaz IOS app on my Apple iPad Pro 10.5", connected by Bluetooth to control the turbo trainer, and riding the virtual routes on there. That works offline, without needing a wifi connection, so is handy for the garage. The connection has been very stable with no drops or issues at all.

    You can watch the videos here to see what they look like:

    The Rides ‚Äď FulGaz



    As you ride the turbo trainer changes resistance to match the gradient at that point on the course. The video on screen speeds up or slows down to reflect your speed. On the downhills the flywheel of the turbo trainer accelerates by itself! I've been quite enjoying them, as it's a chance to go and do rides in places I've never been to. Getting stuck at roadworks with temporary traffic lights whilst turbo training made me laugh. There are a lot of hills I'd be off and pushing up in real life too.

    The third aim, consistency, has been a bit mixed. The resistance seems the same between rides but the Tacx Neo's built in power meter doesn't track that well with my Power2Max cranks.



    The graph above shows a 10 minute extract of a virtual ride with the power and cadence readings from my Power2Max Type S overlaid with the Tacx Neo's built in power meter. Pedalling in the middle of the rear cassette the readings are about the same but as you shift up for downhills (large front chainring and smallest rear sprockets) the Power2Max cranks read 10 to 15 watts higher than the Tacx Neo. When shifting down for uphills (small front chainring and largest rear sprockets) the Tacx Neo reads 10 to 15 watts higher than the Power2Max cranks.

    I've run both my Power2Max Classic and Power2Max Type S cranks (two different power meters) on the same bike to compare against the Tacx Neo and there is the same difference to the Tacx Neo on both of them.
    Power2Max had the most variability in this test as I recall, both between different cranksets, and day-to-day with each crankset. Huge scientific study shows inaccuracies of popular power meters - Cycling Weekly

    Also, I could see the extra bending force from cross-chaining causing a crank based power meter to read higher when cross-chained in one direction (extra tension, extra bending of the strain guage), and when cross-chained in the opposite direction (extra compression, basically bending the strain gauge in the opposite direction). I can't think of a reason why the Neo would read higher or lower based on what gear you were in. So I would put the difference in readings down to the Power2Max. In DCRainmaker's tests vs many other power meters, the Neo was very accurate.

    Here's some MTB based riding videos/w workouts you might like if you enjoy those riding videos. I think they're streaming though, but I haven't looked into if they're downloadable. Maybe you could boost your wi-fi signal. https://www.spintertainment.com/
    Fall is here. Woo-hoo!

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by DLd View Post
    Power2Max had the most variability in this test as I recall, both between different cranksets, and day-to-day with each crankset. Huge scientific study shows inaccuracies of popular power meters - Cycling Weekly

    Also, I could see the extra bending force from cross-chaining causing a crank based power meter to read higher when cross-chained in one direction (extra tension, extra bending of the strain guage), and when cross-chained in the opposite direction (extra compression, basically bending the strain gauge in the opposite direction). I can't think of a reason why the Neo would read higher or lower based on what gear you were in. So I would put the difference in readings down to the Power2Max. In DCRainmaker's tests vs many other power meters, the Neo was very accurate.

    Here's some MTB based riding videos/w workouts you might like if you enjoy those riding videos. I think they're streaming though, but I haven't looked into if they're downloadable. Maybe you could boost your wi-fi signal. https://www.spintertainment.com/
    Although there is this mismatch in readings whilst riding so long as there is a mixture of uphills and downhills in the virtual ride the average powers actually tend to balance themselves out to within 1 watt between the two power meters eg:

    02 January 2018 (1 hour 45 min) Tacx Neo 164 watts average power, Power2Max Classic 163 watts average power

    03 January 2018 (1 hour 2min) Tacx Neo 174 watts average power, Power2Max Type S 174 watts average power

    If it's a fully uphill climbing ride however it isn't such a nice picture. I rode up the virtual Alpe d'Huez the other day, which was close to bottom gear the whole way up:

    09 January 2018 (1 hour 41 min uphill) Tacx Neo 174 watts average power, Power2Max Classic 163 watts average power

    I initially thought there must be an issue with my Power2Max Classic powermeter. I'd converted it from 3x to 2x chainrings and thought that conversion could be the problem. I went so far as to have a set of precision spacers made up for it to get the chainring bolt tensions as even as possible on that crank.

    I then took my other bike apart and tried the Power2Max Type S crank on the same bike against the Tacx Neo. Relative to the Tacx Neo the two crank power meters look consistent with each other. Their power numbers seem to match up well. It isn't that one of the crank power meters is clearly faulty (they could both be bad I guess! ).

    On the Tacx Neo I've taken apart and regreased the freehub assembly (all the bearings look good and there's no play), checked the threaded endcaps are tight, the cassette lockring is tight on the freehub and with the thru axle the whole back end is very solidly attached. The same power reading difference appears with the turbo trainer connected via bluetooth to both the FulGaz app but also the Tacx Cycling App.

    The next step is probably to get a friend to come round with a different power meter, put their bike on the turbo trainer, have them do a ride and see what the readings are like in comparison.

    Spintertainment doesn't appear to have any trainer control options. It's purely videos without the interactive resistance changes.

    One thing I hadn't realised with smart turbo trainers is that using Bluetooth and an iPad not all apps are able to control the resistance of every brand of turbo trainer. Most of the main ones work with a Tacx turbo trainer to control the resistance (Zwift, Trainer Road, Kinomap, FulGaz) but then you have apps like The Sufferfest and imobileintervals that only work with a Wahoo turbo trainers for trainer resistance control. If you have something else (eg: Tacx or Elite turbo trainer) they can't control them. Ant+ control via a computer looks to work for The Sufferfest but not Bluetooth.

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    I have soon finished the TrainerRoad Sweetspot Base Mid II plan and I'm about to start the build phase.
    As a xcm and xcm-stage cyclist, should I choose a short or general build plan? I'm in my 40's and not looking to be world champion. Just trying to improve last year's results. :-)

    Edit: I found on TR's website that the sustained build it meant for xcm.

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    just curious, what's the basic structure of the "sustained build" plan?

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    Quote Originally Posted by quax View Post
    just curious, what's the basic structure of the "sustained build" plan?
    To give details but still be vague: Every 4th week is an easy week. Lots of interval blocks at 80-95% of FTP with a sprinkling of workouts that have <= 1 min intervals above FTP in various zones. Days with intervals well above FTP are limited to around 2 per week. There is a progression to the weeks as well.

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    Thanks.

    So what's the difference to SST Base. More/longer SST and those few intensity workouts?

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    Quote Originally Posted by quax View Post
    Thanks.

    So what's the difference to SST Base. More/longer SST and those few intensity workouts?
    Yep. They are very similar. Those intensity workouts (VO2Max) are also in the SST Base. The high power tags (150-180%) which you can find in the SST Base SS workouts are not there in the Build phase.
    The TSS is in general higher per week in the Build phase.

  69. #69
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    I now have an internet enabled garage.

    When we moved house from being in a town to a more rural location the downside was only being able to get 14mb ADSL broadband, rather than the 80mb VDSL fibre broadband we used to have. That was a big downgrade. It took two years but BT fibre broadband has finally become available here so I could justify upgrading the router to a newer TP-Link Archer VR2800 router and at the same time add a few TP-Link TL-WPA8630P power over ethernet powerline adapters to cover parts of the house that had a poor or nonexistent signal before. That was a straightforward process and the powerline network looks to have decent speed:





    What that means from a cycling perspective is that I can try out the turbo trainer apps that require an internet connection to work. One of those is Kinomap.

    https://www.kinomap.com/en/

    This is an app that lets you ride virtual routes. There are lots of available routes on there.



    There are also about a million settings scattered all over the place! It's not that straightforward to get up and running. I'd have liked to see all the settings grouped in one place.

    The first thing you have to do is sign up for a Kinomap account, and then add your turbo trainer and bluetooth sensors to the app



    Under the equipment tab with a Tacx Neo you have two options at the bottom. One is if you want to enable road feel, you can choose the type of feel (cobbles, offroad, gravel, ice! etc) and also an intensity slider. This only seems to be an on-off toggle though. You don't get the dynamic changes in surface on different parts of the route feel that the Tacx Cycling App test videos have. I left it off.

    Under the Settings tab you have the user details, where you put in your weight, height etc.

    Below this you the Simulation settings, where you choose type of bike, frontal area and maximum gradient for hills. Although you can choose different types of bike (triathlon bike, road bike, road bike in drops, mountain bike), rather than just choosing mountain bike I think it's safest to choose the type of bike to match the video you're doing. The reason being that you want the virtual speed you're riding at to be somewhere close to the standard video speed playback. If you're too slow a reactive video looks like it's in slow motion!

    The user frontal area is your aerodynamic drag and a modifier for how fast you go. I left it as default but you could tweak it to adjust your speed relative to the video playback (a lower frontal area will make you faster for the same effort whilst a higher frontal area will slow you down.

    Below this you have resistance change speed and maximum slope. On some turbo trainers they can only simulate up to a particular maximum gradient to so you would make this match what your turbo trainer supports.

    If you keep going down the settings menu you get to the Sharing menu. This is where you link the app to your favourite sites, such as Strava and Training Peaks to add your data to your training log.

    When you've got those initial settings entered you select a ride from the list. The pictures below show one of the free demo rides:

    Before you start there are more settings to check!



    At the top right there is a small cog symbol. Tap on that and you can choose between "SD" and "HD" quality, some videos have higher quality again as an option. Tap on done.



    On the right hand side you have a little map of the route. Swipe right on this map and you will get to a menu with details about the ride. This is where you can download the video file to use offline without streaming. This lets you have the best quality video even if your internet connection isn't that quick as it isn't having to download lots of data whilst you ride.



    At this point you're almost ready to go! Tap on the big yellow Start button. On this screen is a very important option. There are two things on the middle of the screen. Discovery and Challenge. Discovery means that the video runs at normal speed, regardless of how you're pedalling, whilst Challenge will set the playback speed to match your speed. If you speed up the video will speed up whilst if you slow down the video will slow down I'd highly recommend using Challenge because otherwise you end up with the video not matching what you're doing.

    When you start riding look in the bottom right corner of the video playback on screen and there is a small white cross. Tap on this to make the video fullscreen.



    As you pedal the app will change the resistance to match the route profile. This route profile is what you can see at the bottom of the screen. It's got a lot of smoothing applied, so you don't get sudden unexpected jumps in gradient, but you also don't have that much detail. When riding outside you're constantly feeling small changes in gradient and adjusting your effort and gears to reflect that. On a Kinomap ride it's a more broad brush approach without those small shifts so it maybe isn't as realistic as it could be.

    When you've finished the ride it automatically saves. On the main menu go to Training Log to see your list of rides. This is also where you can send it to yourself as an email file and share it to Strava, Training Peaks etc. Unlike some indoor cycling apps you get speed, distance, power in the file but there is no GPS map or elevation for the ride.



    .

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    I bought the Magnus from Cycleops about a year ago when my old fluid trainer was on it's last legs. It helped to get 20% off on the new smart trainer when I traded it in. I also signed up for Zwift at the same time and I like it. Below is my setup. I run zwift from the laptop that I can project on a TV. I sometimes find myself watching other shows on TV while Zwift runs on the laptop (usually during the recovery days that have no intervals).

    I use my road bike for training and have a 2nd wheel with trainer tire hooked up to it.

    Training with a smart trainer. Tell me what you do.-basement-setup.jpg

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    Finally got the bike set up and trainer in place. Now to get started with the Base phase.


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    I'd like to bump this up to see if anyone can help with a problem I am having with video quality with my setup.

    I have a wahoo kickr ,iPhone 7, and a samsung tv mounted up. have the wahoo app on the
    phone and have been running rouvy. everything is functioning fine, really enjoying the training.
    the samsung tv is mirroring the phone with an app I downloaded on the phone from samsung. the video quality is poor. and there is a delay in broadcasting between the two
    systems. the app seems to record the phone content and them send it to the tv. maybe a second or two delay. and along with that the video quality on the tv is poor
    video quality on the phone is outstanding

    is there a better way to get the content of my iPhone to the tv so the video quality is better? I should get any 10 yr old to square up the set up. but none are available locally
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  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Provincial View Post
    I'd like to bump this up to see if anyone can help with a problem I am having with video quality with my setup.

    I have a wahoo kickr ,iPhone 7, and a samsung tv mounted up. have the wahoo app on the
    phone and have been running rouvy. everything is functioning fine, really enjoying the training.
    the samsung tv is mirroring the phone with an app I downloaded on the phone from samsung. the video quality is poor. and there is a delay in broadcasting between the two
    systems. the app seems to record the phone content and them send it to the tv. maybe a second or two delay. and along with that the video quality on the tv is poor
    video quality on the phone is outstanding

    is there a better way to get the content of my iPhone to the tv so the video quality is better? I should get any 10 yr old to square up the set up. but none are available locally
    Your phone downloads video over internet to router, router sends video to phone, phone decodes video and then encodes the screen, sends over WiFi to router, router sends stream to tv. Tv decodes and displays. With low bandwidth that will be a high latency operation. So first see if you have good WiFi operation. You have three trips from phone to router. Phone and Tv and phone are contending for same WiFi bandwidth.

    One option is a new access point in your workout area, then Ethernet over power from house router to workout area. Itíll give you a lower latency gigabit within the House.

    I use an old thrift store Apple TV for iPhone screen mirroring and it is fine/good. Make sure you get v3 or later for screen mirroring. And it will have the same bandwidth issues.

    Iíve moved to golden cheetah and now use the Apple TV to play movies directly.
    the truth is always a gift because it offers the recipient of that information the chance to change the outcome - Grace Choi

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Provincial View Post
    I'd like to bump this up to see if anyone can help with a problem I am having with video quality with my setup.

    I have a wahoo kickr ,iPhone 7, and a samsung tv mounted up. have the wahoo app on the
    phone and have been running rouvy. everything is functioning fine, really enjoying the training.
    the samsung tv is mirroring the phone with an app I downloaded on the phone from samsung. the video quality is poor. and there is a delay in broadcasting between the two
    systems. the app seems to record the phone content and them send it to the tv. maybe a second or two delay. and along with that the video quality on the tv is poor
    video quality on the phone is outstanding

    is there a better way to get the content of my iPhone to the tv so the video quality is better? I should get any 10 yr old to square up the set up. but none are available locally
    I have an Apple lightning to HDMI adapter. That mirrors the IOS device picture onto a bigger screen and works well. You connect a HDMI cable from the adapter to one of the inputs on your TV and use it as a direct input feed to the TV screen.

    You can use as long a HDMI cable as you like (so the iPhone or iPad is right next to you, whilst the screen can be further away) and it also has an additional lightning port so you can charge the IOS device through it at the same time:

    https://www.apple.com/uk/shop/produc...tal-av-adapter

    That is the official Apple adapter. You can also get lots of cheaper ones from Amazon, which may or may not work properly.

    With some of the apps (such as FulGaz) there is a specific option in the video out settings so it will run full screen on the TV too, rather than the smaller mirrored picture.

    This is what FulGaz looks like on a 42" 1080P TV through the Apple lightning to HDMI adapter from my iPad Pro 10.5". When in TV out mode it moves the numbers from the bottom to the edges of the screen so you have the entire picture filled with video.


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    I think I understand now
    I need to make the route from router to phone to tv as direct as possible

    I will get one of the adapters and try it out

    thanks for the help!!
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    Iím using an Apple TV as well and mirroring. Hoping TrainerRoad follows Zwiftís lead and develops for the Apple TV so I can skip the mirroring all together.

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Provincial View Post
    I think I understand now
    I need to make the route from router to phone to tv as direct as possible

    I will get one of the adapters and try it out

    thanks for the help!!
    The issue with the poor video quality and lag you're experiencing is most likely down to using the third party Samsung IOS app for sending the picture from your iPhone to the television.

    Either a physical lightning to HDMI adapter or wireless mirroring via Airplay to an Apple TV should be better. Of the two I'd recommend the physical adapter.

    Airplay can work ok but you need a strong home wifi signal between devices to make sure it doesn't drop connection and it's another step that can potentially cause issues when you just want to get on and ride.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WR304 View Post
    The issue with the poor video quality and lag you're experiencing is most likely down to using the third party Samsung IOS app for sending the picture from your iPhone to the television.

    Either a physical lightning to HDMI adapter or wireless mirroring via Airplay to an Apple TV should be better. Of the two I'd recommend the physical adapter.

    Airplay can work ok but you need a strong home wifi signal between devices to make sure it doesn't drop connection and it's another step that can potentially cause issues when you just want to get on and ride.

    thanks for all the help
    I have placed an order for the adaptor and hdmi cable, it should be here tomorrow
    I am very new to all the recent tech stuff, just updated my phone last month, with the intent of getting the wahoo, so all of this helps me a lot.

    that fulgaz looks interesting
    I am really enjoying the rouvy even with the delay and not so perfect picture. I've been on it every night exploring all the different routes. great fun while the weather outside has been rotten
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  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Provincial View Post
    thanks for all the help
    I have placed an order for the adaptor and hdmi cable, it should be here tomorrow
    I am very new to all the recent tech stuff, just updated my phone last month, with the intent of getting the wahoo, so all of this helps me a lot.

    that fulgaz looks interesting
    I am really enjoying the rouvy even with the delay and not so perfect picture. I've been on it every night exploring all the different routes. great fun while the weather outside has been rotten
    FulGaz has a 14 day free trial so you could give that a try to compare. Under the FulGaz settings have the video set to reactive, video quality 1080p and TV out set to ON. I'd download the video file onto your phone too, so that it isn't streaming it.

    Rouvy has a 14 day free trial too (on both PC as well as IOS) so I've downloaded the app to my iPad and will give it a try on the turbo trainer tomorrow.

    https://rouvy.com/en/

    .

  80. #80
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    I had a go with Rouvy today. This was using my iPad and the IOS version of the app.

    Like all these apps it's a subscription based service. With this one you have two levels - Standard subscription and Premium subscription. With Premium subscription you get access to more rides, which are supposed to have higher quality video also. It offers a 14 day free trial (no credit card required) that lets you try the Premium features.

    Pairing the Tacx Neo via Bluetooth smart was easy and worked straight away. Getting the settings right before doing a ride means going through the settings menus.



    On the account screen you enter your body weight and threshold power (FTP)



    On the trainer and sensors screen you can choose the rear wheel circumference (I've been leaving this on default for turbo trainer apps. 2096mm is a 700c road tyre) and bike weight (I've been putting in the weight of my mountain bike 27.5lb to try and keep uphill climbing speeds roughly in the same range as I would be doing outdoors).

    With the trainer connected you can set the trainer difficulty for gradient scaling on this page too (it defaults to 100% with a Tacx Neo which is right so I didn't adjust it).



    On the Cloud services page you can choose which other sites to send the ride to once complete. If you select email it will send you a .fit file of the virtual ride. I linked it to Strava also.



    That all seems good but to actually get the app setup you need to go to the Rouvy website using a web browser, login with your username and password, click on the settings cog icon at the top right corner of the website and select Zones from the bottom of the menu that appears. Here there are a set of sliders for your power zones which you have to manually adjust. In the picture I've set them to match my Coggan classic power zones from WKO4. The auto calculated zones use a different method so for the indicator to work as you expect whilst riding this needs changing. Click Save.

    Once you've changed this in the website and saved the changes go back to the IOS app and on the Settings - Account page tap on the Reload button at the top right to sync the changes you made back to the IOS device.



    Something that's interesting about these virtual cycling apps is that the rides available tend to depend on where the developers of the app are located. FulGaz for example is in Australia so there are a lot of Australian routes on there. Rouvy is developed by VirtualTraining s.r.o Czech Republic and a lot of the premium videos were filmed by RealLifeVideo.de (German). The premium routes they have available look to be concentrated around Germany, Austria and Switzerland rides. A lot of the premium rides on Rouvy are quite long distance too. If you look at the screenshot above you can see the distance of the rides in miles. The longest I saw was a 73 mile ride round the Ardennes, projected ride time 4 hours.

    The non premium routes are more widespread worldwide, and shorter, with ones all over the world. On the map browser the Green icons show there is a video.



    When you start the ride select Training as this will have the video speed up or slow down to match your speed. The route I did today was one of the premium rides called King of the Lake. It's a 29 mile flat time trial round a lake in Austria.

    The picture above shows what the Rouvy app looks like on iPad. You have the ride information down the side of the screen and the four tabs across the top let you choose different displays (1. video, 2. overhead GPS map, 3. stats of the ride, 4. live side scrolling graph of power and heart rate). At the bottom is the altitude profile of the route with a marker showing where you are. This particular video was recorded on a time trial bike, which is why you can see the riders hands and aero extensions at the top of the screen!

    In the middle of the screen is the current gradient of the road and the line below is a count down timer that changes colour and warns whether you will soon be going uphill or downhill the next time the resistance adjusts so you can be ready with your gear changes and effort. This works really well and is a great feature.

    On the left hand bar next to the power number you can seem a small blue box saying Z1. This box changes colour and number according to what power zone you are riding in. This is another really nice feature, just so long as the power zones are set to begin with so that it represents your chosen power zones.

    To ride using a Tacx Neo Rouvy is somewhere between Kinomap and FulGaz. Rouvy has more smoothing than FulGaz, so isn't as sensitive to gradient changes, but doesn't have as much smoothing as Kinomap, so you get a bit more feel for what the route would be like to ride. The streaming video wasn't too bad. It's a bit grainy but there isn't an option anywhere that I could see to choose quality. This was a Premium video which is supposed to be the best quality.

    Although you get options for bike weight and rider weight there isn't an option to choose type of bike or tweak your speed beyond that in Rouvy. I think this ride was probably on a virtual road bike as I averaged 166 watts for a virtual average speed of 17.5mph on a relatively flat route. It seems fair enough anyway, fairly believable and in the right sort of area. That's increasingly an issue when you consider that these virtual rides count as miles and climbs in training logs.



    One really nice part of Rouvy that is worth mentioning is the website and built in training diary and ride analysis that you can see. It gives quite a lot of detail and lets you import other rides in too, so that if you wanted to you could include outdoor rides to have a full training diary.

    Edit:

    Here's a picture showing Rouvy (Premium video ride) outputting to a TV via lightning to HDMI adapter from my iPad. This is in the front room as the garage is still work in progress so I've been using just the iPad for actual rides.



    You can choose what you want displayed on each screen via the settings cog on the video whilst riding. Here I have the video outputting onto the TV whilst the iPad acts as a second screen displaying the overhead map of the route. Picture quality of this ride video (Palma, Mallorca) looks ok on the TV with this setup and with the direct connection it doesn't lag.

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    I received my hdmi adapter and hdmi cord yesterday and had it up and running last night
    picture quality is great now, and no lag.
    thanks for the great tips,
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  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Provincial View Post
    I received my hdmi adapter and hdmi cord yesterday and had it up and running last night
    picture quality is great now, and no lag.
    thanks for the great tips,
    That's good that it all worked.

    Thanks for suggesting Rouvy too.

    I'm liking the idea of doing that Rouvy 43 mile virtual ride around La Palma in the Canary Islands.(the TV picture in my post above)



    It's going to be a slog though. What I've been finding with the turbo trainer is that I start struggling about the 1 hour 45 minute to 2 hour mark, which are about the longest rides I've been doing. The turbo trainer is in the garage (unheated, around +3c to +5c temperature in February).

    For longer rides I've been having a spare set of gloves and spare towel (I have a towel over the bike stem that I use for wiping sweat off), and switching them over at a little over the hour mark.

    By the time I've done 1 hour 45 minutes on the turbo trainer I'm properly soaked in sweat, shorts soaked through, socks and shoes soaked and because it's quite cold in there I'll be steaming too. Possibly I'm getting cold, despite the effort, and losing muscle temperature by that 1 hour 45 minute point, or perhaps I'm just sweating too much and need to drink more. Not sure.

    On Rouvy using the map browser I've found a climb near Calpe, Spain too (it's called Bernia CV-749 climb). One of my friend's is always over in Calpe for training during the winter so I'm going to have to ride it and see how it compares to his time up there.


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    It might be more a mental thing - the 1.5 hour mark is when being on a trainer becomes a tedious grind for me. Possibly that's a mental toughness thing that can be trained but I'm not sure I want to.

    There are some organised group rides on Zwift that can get me going longer and enjoy it (like the weekly PretzHell ride) but it's not often that the times fit my schedule.

  84. #84
    eri
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    Quote Originally Posted by WR304 View Post

    It's going to be a slog though. What I've been finding with the turbo trainer is that I start struggling about the 1 hour 45 minute to 2 hour mark, which are about the longest rides I've been doing. The turbo trainer is in the garage (unheated, around +3c to +5c temperature in February).

    For longer rides I've been having a spare set of gloves and spare towel (I have a towel over the bike stem that I use for wiping sweat off), and switching them over at a little over the hour mark.

    By the time I've done 1 hour 45 minutes on the turbo trainer I'm properly soaked in sweat, shorts soaked through, socks and shoes soaked and because it's quite cold in there I'll be steaming too. Possibly I'm getting cold, despite the effort, and losing muscle temperature by that 1 hour 45 minute point, or perhaps I'm just sweating too much and need to drink more. Not sure
    I have exactly the same sensations of heat and sweat when my cooling is inadequate. It is near freezing right now at my place and with a large fan on full blast I no longer get any significant cardiac drift, but I'm on a porch with some wind, garage will be hotter.

    Almost certainly your core temp is elevated and your body is working hard to cool you.

    Try using some fans from the start and see how it goes. In summer 2 fans were inadequate for me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WR304 View Post
    That's good that it all worked.

    Thanks for suggesting Rouvy too.

    I'm liking the idea of doing that Rouvy 43 mile virtual ride around La Palma in the Canary Islands.(the TV picture in my post above)



    It's going to be a slog though. What I've been finding with the turbo trainer is that I start struggling about the 1 hour 45 minute to 2 hour mark, which are about the longest rides I've been doing. The turbo trainer is in the garage (unheated, around +3c to +5c temperature in February).

    For longer rides I've been having a spare set of gloves and spare towel (I have a towel over the bike stem that I use for wiping sweat off), and switching them over at a little over the hour mark.

    By the time I've done 1 hour 45 minutes on the turbo trainer I'm properly soaked in sweat, shorts soaked through, socks and shoes soaked and because it's quite cold in there I'll be steaming too. Possibly I'm getting cold, despite the effort, and losing muscle temperature by that 1 hour 45 minute point, or perhaps I'm just sweating too much and need to drink more. Not sure.

    On Rouvy using the map browser I've found a climb near Calpe, Spain too (it's called Bernia CV-749 climb). One of my friend's is always over in Calpe for training during the winter so I'm going to have to ride it and see how it compares to his time up there.


    I felt good the other night and tried that ride in the canary islands, I
    had to stop at the 12 mile mark, one tough virtual ride
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  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by eri View Post
    I have exactly the same sensations of heat and sweat when my cooling is inadequate. It is near freezing right now at my place and with a large fan on full blast I no longer get any significant cardiac drift, but I'm on a porch with some wind, garage will be hotter.

    Almost certainly your core temp is elevated and your body is working hard to cool you.

    Try using some fans from the start and see how it goes. In summer 2 fans were inadequate for me.
    The weather has been quite nice for the last week or so so I've been riding outdoors, rather than on the turbo trainer.

    I think I must have been overheating a bit. It was -1c today outside but sunny so I had the garage doors open as well, making it 5 or 6c colder than the week before last whilst riding. Wearing bib shorts that was about right on the turbo trainer. I was sweating a bit but not drenched. For rides with the garage door closed I need to get more fans sorted out.

    In particular I think that when my shorts were getting too wet from the sweat was the tipping point for comfort. What I've been considering for longer rides is possibly stopping after a few hours, going into the house, doing a full kit change including shorts and socks and then resuming the ride in dry kit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Provincial View Post
    I felt good the other night and tried that ride in the canary islands, I
    had to stop at the 12 mile mark, one tough virtual ride
    I did the first part of the La Palma ride today down to the bottom of the island as well. That whole first section is uphill and hard slog for the first 11 miles or so. It would count as a big hill in its own right! It looks like the next part is flatter and more rolling before the main climb up the volcano at the end.



    With the big rides on Rouvy you can split them up into more manageable chunks fortunately, so it doesn't mean having to do a full ride in one sitting.

    https://support.rouvy.com/hc/en-us/a...in-the-middle-



    There are different instructions depending on what device is being used. With an iPad you start the ride then drag the green Me marker along the map to the point where you want to start from. That's what I'm going to do tomorrow, jump to the point on the route I got to today and then do the next 20 miles to the top of the climb. The last 10 miles is all descending so I'm going to skip that bit. Long steep descents on virtual rides see me running out of gears (38x11 top gear) and the wattage drops away too much.

    You can do the same thing to choose where you start on FulGaz too. On FulGaz with iPad you start the ride, tap once on the video picture being played back and then you can see the marker and video time appear at the bottom of the screen. Drag the playback point to the required point in the video (the position marker on the map moves too) and then tap once on the video picture again to return to riding.



    .

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    Pic of my new "big fan", got it on craigslist for $60.

    Training with a smart trainer. Tell me what you do.-bigfan_smaller.jpg

    A bit loud but very effective, with it I can keep my jacket on.

    I don't think it is a good use of time to shower and re-dress yourself in the midst of the ride. You are on the trainer to get continuous work, if you stop you are robbing yourself of expensive Z2 fatigue.
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    What I was thinking of was a quick dry off with a towel and change of kit and some fresh chamois cream. That would only take 5 to 10 minutes. If I stopped and had a shower that would probably end up being the end of riding for that day. I'd never get going again!



    I did the second half of the La Palma ride on Rouvy today. I started at around the 15 mile mark and went from there. At 2 hours 9 minutes ride time that's my longest ride on this turbo trainer (probably ever on a turbo trainer!) I did it as one ride, without any stops. Starting from 15 miles in the route was mostly rolling for the first part but then as you get closer to the main climb there's a cliff ahead.



    The climb itself is 7.4 miles at an average gradient of 6%, although the top few miles are steeper than that. It took me 1 hour 8 minutes for the climb alone. You climb up through the forest and then it's more exposed volcanic rocks near the summit. The descent is then really quick back to the town.

    I did it with the garage doors open (-1c outside) and there was a blizzard outside so I could watch the snow falling whilst virtually riding up a big hill on an island on a sunny day. It was a great ride. Highly recommended.



    Something that I wasn't too happy about was that the Tacx Neo turbo trainer dropped its bluetooth connection four times to my iPad Pro 10.5 on this ride. These are the first bluetooth drops of any kind I've had on the Tacx Neo. I could see that the virtual cadence was very low, jumping between 26rpm and 0 rpm (I was actually doing about 80rpm cadence per my Power2Max crank) and then the connection went entirely. No resistance and no readings on screen. What I did was stop pedalling, wait, pause the ride, restart the ride and after about 37 seconds it would start working again.

    The bad bit is that I don't know why it happened. After finishing the ride on the Tacx Utility app the bluetooth strength showed as very strong to the Tacx Neo and there were no errors in the Tacx utility app. The turbo trainer is in the garage so there isn't much in the way of other electrical devices around to interfere either. There's the powerline wifi adapter for internet and my Power2Max crank broadcasting on ANT+ to the Garmin Edge 520.

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    I've admitted defeat and given up on the Tacx Neo virtual cadence completely. It was just rubbish, showing 20 rpm up the hills and then 130rpm down the hills.



    I've bought a Wahoo RPM bluetooth cadence sensor to use instead.

    In the picture the small pod at the top is the cadence sensor itself. This uses accelerometers, rather than a cadence magnet, so can be fitted in several different ways. In the package you get a double sided adhesive sticker to stick just the cadence sensor to your crank. You also get a shoe mount, so that you can thread it through a velcro strap or lace on your cycling shoes and a zip tie crank fitting to attach the sensor.

    The sensor itself uses a CR2032 battery so this will need replacing from time to time.

    I haven't had any more issues with Bluetooth dropouts after the ones last week. To try and eliminate any possible connectivity issues what I've been doing is to first close all the open apps on the iPad. On an iPad or iPhone you do this by double tapping the home button to bring up the list of open apps. Swipe up on each app in turn to close it until they're all gone.



    After that I've been giving the iPad a full reboot by turning it off completely, and then turning it back on again. After that reboot I've then been opening just the turbo trainer app I want to use, connecting to the Tacx Neo and doing the ride.

    That has been successful so far. There was a lot of snow last week so I ended up doing 7 days straight on the turbo trainer without any further connection problems.

  90. #90
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    I tried out the new Wahoo RPM bluetooth cadence sensor today.



    I rode the Col du Glandon on FulGaz, which is a 6.25 mile Alpine climb at an average gradient of 8%. Most of it seemed to be a lot steeper than 8% though, mostly 9 to 10% with sections at 14% gradient.

    That was a good test for the turbo trainer and cadence sensor as I spent a lot of time stuck firmly in 26x32 bottom gear, which would be 20rpm or less on the Tacx Neo virtual cadence. With the added cadence sensor the reported cadence was what I was actually pedalling at 82rpm average cadence for the full climb.

    In itself that's not a surprise and exactly what I'd expect to see. The notable part was how this affected the Tacx Neo turbo trainer. On previous rides as the virtual gradient went over 10% and steepened the resistance of the turbo trainer would become increasingly lumpy. Rather than being a constant resistance it would load up and down, as though the resistance was coming and going. Imagine virtual tyre slip, not like climbing a real hill.

    On this ride it still felt good up to 14% gradient, which was as steep as it got. I'm wondering if the virtual cadence being so low at 20rpm on previous rides was tricking the app (FulGaz in this case) into thinking that I was about to stop or restart so it was changing the resistance to anticipate that, making for an uneven feel. When you stop pedalling completely on the Tacx Neo the heavy resistance comes off, and only resumes after a couple of pedal strokes.



    For this ride I had the Wahoo RPM cadence sensor attached to the right hand drive side crank.



    The iPad Pro 10.5 sits on a stand on the left hand side of the bike next to the front wheel, the opposite side to the sensor.



    Although it wasn't noticeable whilst riding when I looked at the .fit file in WKO4 it was clear that the Wahoo RPM cadence sensor had been dropping connection several times during the ride, only for intermittent 1 second intervals but still more than I'd like. In the graph above you can see how there are drops in the green cadence trace from the Wahoo RPM cadence sensor whilst the yellow power trace from the Tacx Neo continues, showing that I was actually pedalling at those points. When I did actually stop pedalling momentarily you can see that both the green cadence and yellow power traces both drop to zero at the same time.



    According to the Wahoo Fitness App these are the details of the sensor. It didn't find any firmware updates so seems to be up to date. There is a signal strength checker in the Wahoo Fitness app but it doesn't seem to be accurate or consistent, showing a four bar signal stood 20 metres away from the bike, or 1 bar with the iPad almost touching the sensor.

    What I'm suspecting is that being on the drive side crank the bluetooth signal is possibly getting partially blocked by the bike and my body on its way to the iPad, even though it isn't far in distance. Switching the sensor from the drive side to non drive side crank might give a more direct bluetooth connection between the iPad and cadence sensor and fix this.

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