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Thread: Training legs

  1. #1
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    Training legs

    I work my legs out on Mon and give myself ill Wed to start riding again. Problem is, my legs are still tired on Wed, so I may be working them out a little hard. So my question is, how do you all train your legs to still have strength to ride? Thanks.

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    Hard work on the legs is eased

    by an easy recovery ride th next day. And I mean EASY. It works wonders.

  3. #3
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    Uh, I ride my bike, and occasionally XC ski or run.

    If you can't hop on your bike the next day, you're doing something wrong.

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    You mean weight lifting and cycling? If you lift heavy your legs are going to be sore. After a heavy leg workout my legs will be sore for close to a week. I don't train legs during the riding season.

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    I ease the pain by going for a short easy ride immediately after lifting.
    Thanks to www.weavercycleworks.com for my awesome bike frames!

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    What is the purpose of lifting weights?

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    Lifting weights increases the maximum force output of the muscles.
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    it produces fiber hypertrophy of largely the type II and IIa-b fibers, to a lesser degree type I...

    type IIa fibers are the biggest generator of high end cycling performance.....so increasing the size of these fibers can be helpful in increasing your maximum power output for sub 4 minute efforts and sprints.......weightlifting however does little to increase mitochondria number, you only get that from true endurance training.....

    so one model is to weightlift to make the fibers larger, then endurance train them to increase those fibers mitochondrial number, it generally takes a minimum of 6 weeks of hard endurance training to form new mitochondria.......end result is you can produce more power and through endurance training you can sustain that higher power.....

    obviously there are limits to gains you can make from this approach, but most could benefit from it...

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    Quote Originally Posted by suvowner
    it produces fiber hypertrophy of largely the type II and IIa-b fibers, to a lesser degree type I...

    type IIa fibers are the biggest generator of high end cycling performance.....so increasing the size of these fibers can be helpful in increasing your maximum power output for sub 4 minute efforts and sprints.......weightlifting however does little to increase mitochondria number, you only get that from true endurance training.....

    so one model is to weightlift to make the fibers larger, then endurance train them to increase those fibers mitochondrial number, it generally takes a minimum of 6 weeks of hard endurance training to form new mitochondria.......end result is you can produce more power and through endurance training you can sustain that higher power.....

    obviously there are limits to gains you can make from this approach, but most could benefit from it...
    If your FTP is low, you won't be able to use those short, maximum power efforts anyways. Why? Because even though you might beat everyone to the top of the first hill, you'll blow sky high trying to recover, while everyone else who was 5 seconds behind you will coming flying by you, never to be seen again.

    In short, unless you're producing 5w/kg+ for a significant period of time, you have better things to do with your time, particularly riding your bike really, really hard.

  10. #10
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    Oh yeah, and it maintains bone density, too, if you're doin' it right.
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  11. #11
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    How long have you been lifting for? Usually after a couple of weeks you aren't as tired.

    That being said, tired legs is one things you have to deal with when lifting weights. Does it effect the quality of your other training? You bet. This is why some don't lift weights and just focus on riding.

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    I've done the Friel type lifting before with the phases he describes: AA, MS, ME, PE, etc. It's weightlifting designed for cycling.

    And it seems to me that the lifting he prescribes does not result in extreme muscle soreness due to the high repetition and relative low load, especially the AA and ME phases. His plan is designed to have a balance of intensity between the weight room and the bike. If the weight room intensity is high, then the bike is low. Intensity in the weight room precedes intensity on the bike. So it could be that you have too much overall of intensity for your weightlifting and bike riding.

    And in general, weightlifting should be a small percentage of overall training time. Every 2-3 hours of weekly weigtlifting should be joined with 8+ hours or so of bike time. When you have few total hours to train, that's when you should be thinking about not weightlifting at all; because you're sacrificing the little bike time that you have.

    But if you have lots of hours of train, and the flexibility and time to recover properly, then weightlifting can be very beneficial,...... at least this slouch seems to thinks so:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDawlrIeaVM

    Damn, those step ups are high!! Just hurts my knees watching.



    Also, suvowner, keep those comments coming. That's some great stuff!! Do you have an kinesology/science background or something??
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    agreed....I am a physician.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by suvowner
    agreed....I am a physician.....
    I have a Masters in exercise physiology... I wish that more physicians had a better understanding of Ex.Phys.
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    Katie Compton on running and strength training: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4qP3...1D702A&index=3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrea138
    I have a Masters in exercise physiology... I wish that more physicians had a better understanding of Ex.Phys.
    So, when you are lifting, when and what kind of riding do you do?

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    Quote Originally Posted by strader
    Katie Compton on running and strength training: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4qP3...1D702A&index=3

    Katies story and reasoning are very interesting.....she also mentioned a unique problem with cramping, which I believe is related to her resistance to do any running or lifting.....it is interesting in that I have the same muscle cramping issue she descibes, which actually isn't a muscle cramp, but more of a myalgia.....triggered by high velocity eccentric loading of the muscle, best example running, and made worse by running downhill....cycling is an all concentric exercise, and some peoples muscles probably type IIA fibers, but no one knows for sure, over adapt to the contentric motion of cycling, in expense for reduced tolerance for eccentric loads to the muscle.......the only thing I have found so far to combat this, is intermittent eccentric loading of the major muscles of cycling,(lunges, running/single leg squats) so as to force the muscle to hold on to some of its eccentrc tolerability characteristics, which is most likely sarcomere number.....only a small percentage of cyclist are bothered by this, but they are out there.....I suspect it is related to the type I to II fiber ratio, and a higher type II ratio probably renders an athlete more susceptible to this phenomenon.......

    exercise phys knowlege I have is largely from my own interest and not specific medical training, but my medical knowledge foundation certainly helps me interpret the exercise phys data !!!

  18. #18
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    I lift 2x per week (for about an hour), focusing mainly on legs (squat, front squat, deadlift, lunge, leg press, good morning, RDL). Right now is the typical hypertrophy/endurance lifting- 10-12 reps, 60-75% of 1rm, 1.5 min rest btwn sets. I'll mix up the exercises (and add in some Olympic lifts/plyometrics), cut back on reps, & increase intensity in late Jan/Feb. Once I start racing (somewhere around late March/April), I'll cut back to 1x per week of a maintenance program.
    Riding-wise, right now I'm doing Cyclocross, base/tempo/sweet spot road & off-road rides, and occasionally a group ride on the road. I kinda hate highly structured training, so I just try to get in a little bit of everything during the week.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrea138
    I lift 2x per week (for about an hour), focusing mainly on legs (squat, front squat, deadlift, lunge, leg press, good morning, RDL). Right now is the typical hypertrophy/endurance lifting- 10-12 reps, 60-75% of 1rm, 1.5 min rest btwn sets. I'll mix up the exercises (and add in some Olympic lifts/plyometrics), cut back on reps, & increase intensity in late Jan/Feb. Once I start racing (somewhere around late March/April), I'll cut back to 1x per week of a maintenance program.
    Riding-wise, right now I'm doing Cyclocross, base/tempo/sweet spot road & off-road rides, and occasionally a group ride on the road. I kinda hate highly structured training, so I just try to get in a little bit of everything during the week.
    Do you give yourself any rest days between a leg workout and a strenuous ride? I always feel like, given proper sleep, diet, and hydration, if I am a sore, then I should be resting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gjenkins@
    Do you give yourself any rest days between a leg workout and a strenuous ride? I always feel like, given proper sleep, diet, and hydration, if I am a sore, then I should be resting.

    http://article.pubs.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca/p...&startPage=355

    you gotta read this article.....

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by suvowner
    From a performance perspective, it is
    clear that alternating exercise modes during concurrent training
    reduces the capacity for the simultaneous acquisition of
    hypertrophy and (or) mitochondrial training-induced adaptation
    responses, compared with single-mode training.
    In short, we can't have it all ... as you alluded to earlier in this thread.

  22. #22
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    Here's a site featuring Andy Coggan's analysis of how max force plays a role in pedaling a bike, and also a good overview of some strength work that can be done on the bike.

    There is menu bar to the left that has 6 links to other pages, read em all for the complete overview:
    http://home.earthlink.net/~acoggan/misc/id4.html

    I have never lifted weights, my experience has only been with on-the-bike strength training. As part of every base period I will do 7weeks of force work using big gears (46x11 MTB gears, or 53x14 road gears) from a 3mph roll, max effort to accelerate as hard as possible for 12sec. Rest 5min and repeat.. I will do these for up to 2hrs (24reps). The first 3 weeks I do them seated, rest week, the second 3 weeks I do them standing. I feel they do improve my ability to power from a low cadence, which is important in MTB (to me). I also beleive that this improved ability is not just because my legs are better able to exert improved force, but every invloved muscle from the foot to the hands is also trained to help maximize the force and reduce fatigue from High torque efforts.

    In a max force effort, I find that form has a lot to do with it. As well as core and upper body strength. Repeated short surges fatigue my back and body, and these workouts help me to improve those areas.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by perryr
    There is menu bar to the left that has 6 links to other pages, read em all for the complete overview:
    http://home.earthlink.net/~acoggan/misc/id4.html
    This link should get its own thread and a sticky at the top of the forum.

  24. #24
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    think of michael rasmussen and andy schleck vs lance armstrong and fabian cancellero.....

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by suvowner
    think of michael rasmussen and andy schleck vs lance armstrong and fabian cancellero.....
    Precisely.

    Exactly one of those guys has won the UCI cross-country world championship.

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