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Thread: Stop YELLING!

  1. #1
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    Stop YELLING!

    Hi everyone
    I did a few beginner races a while back and for the most part had lots of fun. One thing though that I didn't like was getting yelled @ to move over by the fast guys. There was one incident when I thought the guy was going to have a coronary!! I had no problems moving over but sometimes the trail didn't allow it...

    Anyhow, what is the protocol?
    Thanks!

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    Move over when it's safe and when you're preventing people from going faster.... Ask to pass when you're eating someone else's rear wheel.... Pretty much, the same etiquette you would use when out for a "normal" ride. The fast dudes are probably just yelling to get your attention over the other riding noise, not just because they simply want to yell at you. Different groups will act differently though. My collegiate mountain bike races seem really chill.
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    Some folks get pretty full of themselves...


    When a jerk-off yells like a lunatic at me, I make sure to tell him:


    "I'm sorry, I didn't know your (insert multi-million $$ company dream sponsor name here) contract was riding on this race..."







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    Not everyone has the skill to measure one's voice at 165 BMP.

    Just do your best.
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    I have to confess some times when I am cross eyed I don't ask for the trail in the nicest manner. I feel bad but it happens. However, I always say thank you.

    At the same time when I have faster races come up on me, I dive out of the way as soon as possible. I know what it like to be held up by slower riders and make sure that I don't do the same to faster riders.
    "The best pace is suicide pace, and today is a good day to die." Steve Prefontaine

  6. #6
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    Some people train a ton.

    Some people want to win.

    Lap type races (especially) can get really backed up on the trails. Annoying.

    One's ability to pass others who are not even in your field/cat has become an important skill around my area.

    Some people can have their results altered by someone who does not get out of the way.

    It happens.

    Move when appropriate.

    Don't take it personally, as the dude is probably in full pain cave mode

    When the guy passes you, yell at the top of your lungs "Git summm!!!!!!!"

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by delgjor View Post
    what is the protocol?
    !
    Get out their way as fast as you can.

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    I get annoyed when I move out of the way for some one and don't get a nod or thanks or anything. I always thank people for letting me by even if they don't seem very happy about it.

  9. #9
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    Let em by as quickly as you can that's safe, and if your going up a hill and know your going to have to dismount, do it early and get off the trail. Racing ss NOTHING pisses me off more than guys getting off half way up the hill and stopping in the middle of the trail causing me to have to go off the trail to pass them and keep up my momentum. That's usually the only time I have nothing nice to say to those guys. On a side note, if I hear some of the 1's catching me, as soon as I see a safe spot to pull off and let them by I do and they usually don't have to say much.

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    Hold your line. If they want to win, then they have to make the pass.
    Giving up ground is not the way to win or improve or be competitive.

    I heard it a bunch racing in the early 90's when racing sport class. I was not a slow poke either.
    Hated the attitude so much I actually got out racing.
    Now, almost 20 years older and 20 years more of an arse I don't give a flip what anyone yells at me.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by swisscross View Post
    Hold your line. If they want to win, then they have to make the pass.
    Giving up ground is not the way to win or improve or be competitive.

    I heard it a bunch racing in the early 90's when racing sport class. I was not a slow poke either.
    Hated the attitude so much I actually got out racing.
    Now, almost 20 years older and 20 years more of an arse I don't give a flip what anyone yells at me.
    I think they are talking about when different/faster categories are coming up.
    "The best pace is suicide pace, and today is a good day to die." Steve Prefontaine

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    There is no need to yell at people in races. In my experience it is usally the mediocre riders who get all full of themselves. I suspect this same type of rider is the one who speeds up when someone asks to get by them. I'll always ask nice the first time, but if a rider wants to drag race me when I'm lapping them I'm just coming around the second time.

    With the novice riders, I think it's important for all of us to be considerate and supportive, we want them coming back again and enjoying the sport. It's not that hard to be considerate.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by jroden View Post
    There is no need to yell at people in races. In my experience it is usally the mediocre riders who get all full of themselves. I suspect this same type of rider is the one who speeds up when someone asks to get by them. I'll always ask nice the first time, but if a rider wants to drag race me when I'm lapping them I'm just coming around the second time.

    With the novice riders, I think it's important for all of us to be considerate and supportive, we want them coming back again and enjoying the sport. It's not that hard to be considerate.
    This whole thing has already been debated in a previous thread. I am guilty of improper "tone" perhaps. I have a hard time sounding nice/friendly when I am pushing my body beyond what it wants me to do.

    Apologies.

    In an ideal world, all cat 3s would race/finish....then cat2s and so on...

    Why do you think that the pros get the course to themselves so often? Apparently when you are paying rent/mortgage it matters suddenly.

    We can argue all day long about whether or not it is appropriate for a rider to really really want you out of the way asap. I am guessing that the more you dedicate your life to racing, the more it will start to matter.

    I have come to accept that I must learn how to navigate my way around slower riders from different levels if I want to do well and end up on the podium.

    If I want to avoid this, then I guess I will have to turn pro

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by rydbyk View Post
    We can argue all day long about whether or not it is appropriate for a rider to really really want you out of the way asap. I am guessing that the more you dedicate your life to racing, the more it will start to matter.
    For true salaried pros who really have something meaningful on the line (in the global sense) it's not common to have them on a short lap course with other riders of drastically less ability. For anyone else (including local "pros" - not their paid vocation)), while their events may mean a lot to them personally, and I respect the dedication that goes into preparation, I don't see their sense of urgency overriding the need for common sense and respect for other participants. It's been my observation that the strongest riders usually have both the technical skills and fitness to create a passing opportunity for themselves in very short order when they need it, with minimal risk to the riders they are passing.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Circlip View Post
    For true salaried pros who really have something meaningful on the line (in the global sense) it's not common to have them on a short lap course with other riders of drastically less ability. For anyone else (including local "pros" - not their paid vocation)), while their events may mean a lot to them personally, and I respect the dedication that goes into preparation, I don't see their sense of urgency overriding the need for common sense and respect for other participants. It's been my observation that the strongest riders usually have both the technical skills and fitness to create a passing opportunity for themselves in very short order when they need it, with minimal risk to the riders they are passing.
    Agreed. Like someone mentioned above, it is sometimes difficult to choose appropriate volume or tone when passing someone when you are physically destroyed.

    I too have been "yelled" at. Get over it. "On your right!!"

    Perhaps the OP is intimidated by this. That is why I mentioned to not take it personally..

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    When words fail, there's always elbows.

    In Canada Cup races where they start the Elite Women a couple of minutes behind the Elite Men, the fast women might pass 1/4 to 1/3 of the men's field by the time the women's race is over.

    At the Nationals a few years ago I chuckled when I overheard one guy complaining about getting an elbow in the ribs and a string of feminine curses after holding up the fastest Elite women working their way through the men's field in one of the season's Canada Cup races, I guess he wasn't convinced that they were faster than him. Hell hath no fury like the elbow of a woman blocked on singletrack.
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    Pretty much same here. One thing to add, in a couple of races this year I have accidentally bumped riders with my handlebar when passing. I'm a tall guy, the trails we ride are very tight, and the pace is pretty frantic. I've always apologized profusely while catching my breath and trying to gun it at the same time. I've been bumped before by a pro coming past, we were both cool about it the same way. One of the real benefits of racing Cat 1 or better is that everybody has raced for a while and knows what they're doing.




    Quote Originally Posted by LMN View Post
    I have to confess some times when I am cross eyed I don't ask for the trail in the nicest manner. I feel bad but it happens. However, I always say thank you.

    At the same time when I have faster races come up on me, I dive out of the way as soon as possible. I know what it like to be held up by slower riders and make sure that I don't do the same to faster riders.
    Last edited by TunicaTrails; 10-03-2011 at 05:33 PM.

  18. #18
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    Those guys yelling at you are called "sand baggers"!! Come on, seriously, a beginners race and people are yelling at you to move out of the way?

    I had the same experience at my first and very last race. Same thing, beginners race with guys in full sponsered race kits standing on the line. Am I in the right place? Then the race starts and guys are yelling at others to get out of the way. Beginner, huh? No thanks.



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    In a race I was in a few weeks back, a few young guys (probably HS class) would ask to pass me and then almost expected me to slow down so they could get around. I have no problems if someone wants to pass, but how about speeding up and getting around me. I had no expectations of winning and the people that were passing were not going to win either. It was like just because they "asked" to pass, it meant that I should slow down and move off the trail. When I pass people, I pretty much get my speed up and make the move as I am saying something like- "passing on your left". Maybe it is the lazy youth that feel entitled! Kidding!!!!

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    I'll move over, but I will not slow down. You haveto earn the pass to get it. Learned that after letting too many people by too easilly. The exception is if you're not in my category. In my series we mark legs so you know if it's someone in your age group/ category. If I'm not racing against you and you're faster, I'll slow down so you can get by.

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    ryguy135: I'll move over, but I will not slow down. You have to earn the pass to get it.

    I hate that attitude. It takes 1-2 seconds to slow a bit and let a fast rider by. And if you are willing to do this, it can be done anywhere, even tight singletrack. My last 2 races where 8 hour solos and I had to let fast team riders pass by many times. I could easily "make them earn it" but that is a pathetic thing to do. And I was on the podim in both races, so I am not exactly glacial in my riding.
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    If the rider behind me doesn't announce that he wants to get by I don't move over. I know there have been times, especially in endurance races, that I'm happy to ride a wheel for a minute or two to recover so I assume that's what others are doing.

    Is this proper etiquette?

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    Quote Originally Posted by serious View Post
    ryguy135: I'll move over, but I will not slow down. You have to earn the pass to get it.

    I hate that attitude. It takes 1-2 seconds to slow a bit and let a fast rider by. And if you are willing to do this, it can be done anywhere, even tight singletrack. My last 2 races where 8 hour solos and I had to let fast team riders pass by many times. I could easily "make them earn it" but that is a pathetic thing to do. And I was on the podim in both races, so I am not exactly glacial in my riding.
    The trails I race on generally are wide enough that there's room for them to pass, just not on an optimum line. If someone's been riding my tail for a while and there's been no room for a pass to happen, then I'll slow down and let them by when a chance happens if I know they are a faster rider.

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    I'm fairly good and when someone is riding behind me for a while, I often ask if they would like to get around and tell them when it's ok to pass, i let off for about a pedal stroke and the rider comes around. If I'm getting lapped, I get out of the way, especially if it is a rider still in the money. It has zero impact on my race or my life, it's just a second or two.

    My favorite are the guys who want to mix it up in the first K and chop me to get into a turn first then I find them 20 mins down in the results. They sure kicked my ass to the first tree, though.

    I don't thing you need to be sugar sweet during the race, but considerate is hardly a stretch for anyone. When I do intervals I'm going hard and don't feel the need to yell at people, why is a race different?

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    Quote Originally Posted by akura View Post
    If the rider behind me doesn't announce that he wants to get by I don't move over. I know there have been times, especially in endurance races, that I'm happy to ride a wheel for a minute or two to recover so I assume that's what others are doing.

    Is this proper etiquette?
    If they don't say anything for a long time ask them if they want to pass. Some people don't want to be rude.

  26. #26
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    wow, u guys are great, thanks for all the replies! also sorry if there was another thread--still new to the site!
    a few rhetorical points--i never felt intimidated, usually just angry when the faster rider expected me to drive off into the saguaros so he could pass. true though, some riders were just loud, not rude or angry. then there was one racer, who actually asked me to let him know when it was safe to pass--wow! not sure i agree w/ slowing down so someone else can pass me...i get the point that i should slow down if they're not in my cat, but how will i know? sue their calves are marked, but i won't see that until they pass.. also, yes, while there are way too many sandbaggers in my class, it's was actually the cat 2 & 1 guys that lit me up. SWISSCROSS, while i don't share your attitude, i loved your reply--nice!!

    thank again!

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    Quote Originally Posted by swisscross View Post
    Hold your line. If they want to win, then they have to make the pass.
    Giving up ground is not the way to win or improve or be competitive.
    Nice attitude to give a beginner. If in fact that's how you ride you put people in danger, and I hope that you are ok being put in the trees. I don't think anyone needs to "slow down" or get off the trail...if I'm passing I'll tell you I want to and ask what side you want me on and then I'm coming around. But being a self-proclaimed arse increases the likelihood of people crashing and getting hurt.

    To the OP, just like in everything there are nice guys and jerks...follow the lead of the people around you

  28. #28
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    Don't take it personal. Sometimes it's hard to control the tone or volume of your voice at 165bpm in a high intensity enviroment.

  29. #29
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    I don't see what the big deal is. It is a race after all and sometimes ones adrenaline is rushing. Couple that with operating near your max output and the subtleties of societies norms can get lost by the wayside. It's a race not afternoon tea. It's not personal.


    On a totally unrelated note who knew that the language filter won't let you post in all caps.

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    Quote Originally Posted by delgjor View Post
    wow, u guys are great, thanks for all the replies! also sorry if there was another thread--still new to the site!
    a few rhetorical points--i never felt intimidated, usually just angry when the faster rider expected me to drive off into the saguaros so he could pass. true though, some riders were just loud, not rude or angry. then there was one racer, who actually asked me to let him know when it was safe to pass--wow! not sure i agree w/ slowing down so someone else can pass me...i get the point that i should slow down if they're not in my cat, but how will i know? sue their calves are marked, but i won't see that until they pass.. also, yes, while there are way too many sandbaggers in my class, it's was actually the cat 2 & 1 guys that lit me up. SWISSCROSS, while i don't share your attitude, i loved your reply--nice!!

    thank again!
    With experience, you'll be able to tell what class the rider is coming up on you. If they are slowly crawling up to you, they are probably in your race/cat and Swisscross's comment may apply. If they are motoring up to your wheel and have the energy to shout loudly that you should yield the trail, then you'll know they are in a faster class and you are getting lapped. You should move over ASAP and let them by.
    I'm in Cat 2. My last XC race this summer the Cat 1 leader caught me on my last climb of my last lap. I heard him coming and was out of his way before he caught me, it gave me a chance to give him a good cheer as he cruised past. The Cat 2 guy in front of me was a bit oblivious, Cat 1 guy called "trail" once loudly and the Cat 2 didn't even acknowledge. He then called much more forcefully "MOVE!" and even then it took the Cat 2 guy a bit of time to move. Based on my quick assessment of Cat 2 guy, he seemed a little inexperienced with the race scene and didn't realize that you will probably get lapped at some point. As it turns out, 2nd place Cat 1 guy was only about 30 seconds behind. Cat 1 guy was racing for the win, of course he's going to be mad when his trail is blocked by a noncompetitor for his race.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewarnerusa View Post
    With experience, you'll be able to tell what class the rider is coming up on you. If they are slowly crawling up to you, they are probably in your race/cat and Swisscross's comment may apply. If they are motoring up to your wheel and have the energy to shout loudly that you should yield the trail, then you'll know they are in a faster class and you are getting lapped. You should move over ASAP and let them by.
    I'm in Cat 2. My last XC race this summer the Cat 1 leader caught me on my last climb of my last lap. I heard him coming and was out of his way before he caught me, it gave me a chance to give him a good cheer as he cruised past. The Cat 2 guy in front of me was a bit oblivious, Cat 1 guy called "trail" once loudly and the Cat 2 didn't even acknowledge. He then called much more forcefully "MOVE!" and even then it took the Cat 2 guy a bit of time to move. Based on my quick assessment of Cat 2 guy, he seemed a little inexperienced with the race scene and didn't realize that you will probably get lapped at some point. As it turns out, 2nd place Cat 1 guy was only about 30 seconds behind. Cat 1 guy was racing for the win, of course he's going to be mad when his trail is blocked by a noncompetitor for his race.
    ^^^this

  32. #32
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    You guys who are offended by being yelled at during an organized competition are just lucky you don't race road bikes :0 Hell, more yelling happens on a typical large group ride than during an average MTB race.

    Also must have never played any organized sport at a competitive level at all, for that matter... maybe cycling just attracts lots of guys who never played a sport before...
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  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by tommyrod74 View Post
    You guys who are offended by being yelled at during an organized competition are just lucky you don't race road bikes :0 Hell, more yelling happens on a typical large group ride than during an average MTB race.

    Also must have never played any organized sport at a competitive level at all, for that matter... maybe cycling just attracts lots of guys who never played a sport before...
    bam!!

  34. #34
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    As an expert/cat1 racer, I deal with lapped traffic regularly in XC races. Don't be a Jerk is the best rule, the Passer and they being passed should both pay attention to this rule. Actually in our local series, within the same category, we let each other by when the other is going stronger on a section. It's asinine not to do so. I don't care who you are. There are some well known pro's who are a$$es about it, the reputation follows them and in the end helps them lose their contracts.

    As a race promoter, we inform our customers that they need to pass nicely and allow people to pass nicely. ANd when people are jerks, we will DQ them and possibly ban them. It's a freakin hobby.

  35. #35
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    A local racer on a local ride said, don't get out of my way, I need the passing practice and I *will* get around you, guaranteed.
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  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewarnerusa View Post
    With experience, you'll be able to tell what class the rider is coming up on you. If they are slowly crawling up to you, they are probably in your race/cat and Swisscross's comment may apply. If they are motoring up to your wheel and have the energy to shout loudly that you should yield the trail, then you'll know they are in a faster class and you are getting lapped. You should move over ASAP and let them by.
    I'm in Cat 2. My last XC race this summer the Cat 1 leader caught me on my last climb of my last lap. I heard him coming and was out of his way before he caught me, it gave me a chance to give him a good cheer as he cruised past. The Cat 2 guy in front of me was a bit oblivious, Cat 1 guy called "trail" once loudly and the Cat 2 didn't even acknowledge. He then called much more forcefully "MOVE!" and even then it took the Cat 2 guy a bit of time to move. Based on my quick assessment of Cat 2 guy, he seemed a little inexperienced with the race scene and didn't realize that you will probably get lapped at some point. As it turns out, 2nd place Cat 1 guy was only about 30 seconds behind. Cat 1 guy was racing for the win, of course he's going to be mad when his trail is blocked by a noncompetitor for his race.
    good advise--thanks!

  37. #37
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    you may have a point there... i wrestled throughout high school which didn't really involve "teamwork..." also the other guy didn't really yell much!
    too be clear, the majority of racers that passed me we're fine, it was a few bad apples that i felt were out of line. also, it was only a significant issue for me when there was no place for me to go!
    thanks

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by stupidbike View Post
    As an expert/cat1 racer, I deal with lapped traffic regularly in XC races. Don't be a Jerk is the best rule, the Passer and they being passed should both pay attention to this rule. Actually in our local series, within the same category, we let each other by when the other is going stronger on a section. It's asinine not to do so. I don't care who you are. There are some well known pro's who are a$$es about it, the reputation follows them and in the end helps them lose their contracts.

    As a race promoter, we inform our customers that they need to pass nicely and allow people to pass nicely. ANd when people are jerks, we will DQ them and possibly ban them. It's a freakin hobby.
    i like your policy!

  39. #39
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    I would say that "Don't be a d-bag" is the prime rule of passing. If you've come up quickly on me and I know it, there's a good chance that I'll let you by when I feel it's safe for me to let you by. If you don't want to wait, then make your own damn pass, but don't be a jerk in doing so.

    If I'm passing people, 95% of the time I'm polite about it. The 5% is when I'm hauling a$$ down some trail and I come to a slower rider, especially if I'm in a group. I've found that in races, the front rider in a group tends to announce his pass, but not that there are a bunch of other riders right on his wheel. It could make for a dangerous situation if the person being passed thinks there's only one rider coming and cuts back onto the trail after they are passed, cutting off all the other riders who are going the same speed as the first person. Then I will make sure, most likely by yelling, that the rider being passed knows that there's more than one person coming.
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    If I come up on someone quickly I give them a loud warning that I'm coming up on them from a long ways out. I tend to yell "Rider!" and hope that they can move when the time is right. I try to be as polite as possible and always say thank you the best that I can when passing. Sometimes it can be difficult when your pushing hard, but a thank you is always in order in my book, even if it sounds like TH---U. If it is not an opportune time in a tight section I just ask that I can get by when the time is right. If someone is on you hard, try and slow down "a little" and let them by as soon as possible, it will only take a second or two off your time. Everyone has their own race, but in XC if someone is clearly moving faster than you let them by ASAP, when you feel comfortable. I think it's good to give a good warning in advance because if you get on someone's wheel and yell at them, you're probably going to scare the crap out of them. Even if it is a hobby, when you are leading and putting a gap on someone, it is somewhat frustrating to have someone in another class not move over for you.
    Last edited by FD5046; 10-05-2011 at 09:36 PM.

  41. #41
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    I usually say "How You Dooing!" when i come up on a slower rider. I feel bad when they jump off the trail just for me. Be polite. It's a hobby and not life and death.
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  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by snellvilleGAbiker View Post
    I feel bad when they jump off the trail just for me. Be polite. It's a hobby and not life and death.
    I don't. If they are in a different category, and being lapped or caught from behind, I feel they should get over to allow me to pass as soon as is safely possible.

    I always do the same if the fastest 40-49 Cat 1 guys catch me from behind (I'm in 30-39). They aren't my competition and I sure don't want to be a deciding factor in THEIR race.

    It's not life and death, obviously, and I always ask politely to pass (several times) before becoming a bit more authoritative in my request. Most racers move over ASAP anyway without being asked as they can hear you coming. Occasionally someone will ignore the request (or, surprisingly, have managed to wear earbuds without being detected at the start) and need a bit more prodding.

    The worst are those in one's own category who do not want to admit they cannot hold the pace. I am good at getting into the woods at the front but if I have a minor mechanical or crash and have to repass riders it can be a hassle sometimes if they do not want to allow you to do so.

    My biggest peeve is the guys (doesn't happen often in Cat 1 but happened all the time in Cat 2) who blow their entire load to be first into the woods, then settle in to a pace WAY slower than the top guys can sustain, and refuse to be passed, actively blocking in some cases.

    Had a shouting match with someone once who did this and only when 2-3 of us threatened to file a complaint post-race did he move over. The problem was that one rider got into the woods before him and was getting away while we were held up for about a 1/2 mile. It worked out OK; I won, teammate got 3rd and the rolling roadblock who had held us up got 2nd-to-last...
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    Also, it's not just a case of Cat 1s lapping Cat 2s. Often, it's the fast guys of the next age group having to work through the slow guys of the younger age group. It's kind of a bummer to have a good gap on the rest of your group and then get held up by a slower rider while that gap disappears. However, I'm often the one getting passed, especially on climbs, and I try to let people by quickly when I can. Often, it helps out when I go to pass that same person on a tech or dh section. If you were nice enough to let them pass easy, they often return the favor.

  44. #44
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    I race to win. If somebody is slowing me down im gonna demand a pass. "I need to pass if you get a sec".

    Im not in the business of sitting around slower than my potential during a race. Some people race for fun and might think im taking it too seriously but for me, racing is as competitive as it gets. Once you taste the podium you never want to go back.
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  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by swisscross View Post
    Hold your line. If they want to win, then they have to make the pass.
    Giving up ground is not the way to win or improve or be competitive.

    I heard it a bunch racing in the early 90's when racing sport class. I was not a slow poke either.
    Hated the attitude so much I actually got out racing.
    Now, almost 20 years older and 20 years more of an arse I don't give a flip what anyone yells at me.
    + 1! swisscross nailed it.

  46. #46
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    GET A BELL!! or if you have one use it, it eliminates voice tone, lets the rider infront know much sooner that you're coming up on them,(they have more time to pick a wide spot at the top of a hill that doesn't slow anyone down) it makes the race more fun, takes the tension out of a pass, then yell at the singlespeeds as they go by, "SHIFT THAT THING" its suppose to be fun !!!
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  47. #47
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    lol! my bell on my jabberwocky broke so I am bell less at the moment. Though I have one on my other bikes and I use em!

    Though I kinda feel like more of an aszhole ringing a bell than asking to pass.
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  48. #48
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    I finally got the courage to try mountain bike racing because there is a beginner class. I want to get out there and see how well I can do, but I have a fear of being in the way of other riders. I know to get over as soon as it's safe, but what if they think a particular spot is good, but because I'm not as skilled it doesn't look safe to me?

    It occurred to me that with beginner class, if someone got pissy at me for holding them up they'd be taking beginner class way too seriously and I can just let their remarks roll off my back. Problem solved.

    Funny thing is, the first race where I'm not injured and the race isn't canceled has all the riders out on the course at the same time. I predict the Men's Cat I racers will start lapping me about 3/4 way into my lap.

    Oh well. I'll just do the best I can.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by KAriadne View Post
    I finally got the courage to try mountain bike racing because there is a beginner class. I want to get out there and see how well I can do, but I have a fear of being in the way of other riders. I know to get over as soon as it's safe, but what if they think a particular spot is good, but because I'm not as skilled it doesn't look safe to me?.
    Just ride. If someone wants past don't intentionally block block them but don't feel forced to move if you can't do so safely. Passing is part of racing and people will deal with it.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by manabiker View Post
    GET A BELL!! or if you have one use it, it eliminates voice tone, lets the rider infront know much sooner that you're coming up on them,(they have more time to pick a wide spot at the top of a hill that doesn't slow anyone down) it makes the race more fun, takes the tension out of a pass, then yell at the singlespeeds as they go by, "SHIFT THAT THING" its suppose to be fun !!!
    Conversely, as a singlespeeder, I always say "How about a little love for the singlespeeder?", makes laugh and they let me slide by,
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  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crosstown Stew View Post
    Let em by as quickly as you can that's safe, and if your going up a hill and know your going to have to dismount, do it early and get off the trail. Racing ss NOTHING pisses me off more than guys getting off half way up the hill and stopping in the middle of the trail causing me to have to go off the trail to pass them and keep up my momentum. That's usually the only time I have nothing nice to say to those guys. On a side note, if I hear some of the 1's catching me, as soon as I see a safe spot to pull off and let them by I do and they usually don't have to say much.
    Ditto pretty much, but I write off geared riders walking climbs under the "That's Racing" heading.
    You can hear when there is a rider behind you, I'll let them know to call it when they are ready to pass.

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manicmtbr View Post
    Conversely, as a singlespeeder, I always say "How about a little love for the singlespeeder?", makes laugh and they let me slide by,
    You know I love you (not that there's anything wrong with that)!

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by KAriadne View Post
    I finally got the courage to try mountain bike racing because there is a beginner class. I want to get out there and see how well I can do, but I have a fear of being in the way of other riders. I know to get over as soon as it's safe, but what if they think a particular spot is good, but because I'm not as skilled it doesn't look safe to me?

    It occurred to me that with beginner class, if someone got pissy at me for holding them up they'd be taking beginner class way too seriously and I can just let their remarks roll off my back. Problem solved.

    Funny thing is, the first race where I'm not injured and the race isn't canceled has all the riders out on the course at the same time. I predict the Men's Cat I racers will start lapping me about 3/4 way into my lap.

    Oh well. I'll just do the best I can.
    If you're talking about The Mullet - not to worry. The trail, for the experts and marathon riders is wide enough (double track most of the way) that there will be no issues for them getting around slower riders. I will certainly speak to all divisions today before the race and mention courtesy, passing etiquette and safety issues.

    Have a fun race out there today!

  54. #54
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    Thanks Bruce.

    My post, really though, was supposed to be more of an "OMG, what are the odds! Back in May this gal talks me into trying mtn bike racing by tell me how great beginner class is, and now by the time I get a chance to try it, this race has everyone out on the course at the same time. Can you believe it?!? Oh well!"

    Just remember, however, they won't be lapping me until the twisty, hilly singletrack in the later sections. ;-)

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewarnerusa View Post
    With experience, you'll be able to tell what class the rider is coming up on you. If they are slowly crawling up to you, they are probably in your race/cat and Swisscross's comment may apply. If they are motoring up to your wheel and have the energy to shout loudly that you should yield the trail, then you'll know they are in a faster class and you are getting lapped. You should move over ASAP and let them by.
    I'm in Cat 2. My last XC race this summer the Cat 1 leader caught me on my last climb of my last lap. I heard him coming and was out of his way before he caught me, it gave me a chance to give him a good cheer as he cruised past. The Cat 2 guy in front of me was a bit oblivious, Cat 1 guy called "trail" once loudly and the Cat 2 didn't even acknowledge. He then called much more forcefully "MOVE!" and even then it took the Cat 2 guy a bit of time to move. Based on my quick assessment of Cat 2 guy, he seemed a little inexperienced with the race scene and didn't realize that you will probably get lapped at some point. As it turns out, 2nd place Cat 1 guy was only about 30 seconds behind. Cat 1 guy was racing for the win, of course he's going to be mad when his trail is blocked by a noncompetitor for his race.
    I like this reply too.
    In your class, crawl up on you, then (without being an ass and you blocking) its their job to pass... Also, I say this because I like to fight for the pass in my own cat (and as such I will only yell if I clearly faster/cat above etc), its all part of racing and (for me) what helps create the dynamics of racing mtb over say a TT. Each to their own but don't expect me to be out there with the "Ironman" attitude of "race your own race" and all that, I changed from that sport for the dynamics that cycle racing brings.
    BUT, when its a guy/girl whos clearly faster then by all means move over when its safe or even pull to the side, even more so in 24hours etc.
    I think a number of people make a fair point thats its too much to expect people to sound nice on the trail. Im cool with being yelled at, go for it, just as long as you ain't an ass off the bike then its all fair.

  56. #56
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    My only bad experience with a yeller was in a local sport race, where at the top of a climb, there was a technical portion that most people don't make it over, so as expected, there was a logjam there, and everyone was pushing thier bike uphill for about 30 feet. I'm about midpack at this point, and some hothead comes up behind about 20 riders and starts yelling "RIDER COMNING THROUGH" about 5 times, and then gets pissed off and starts yelling "IF YOU AREN"T ON YOUR BIKE, GET OFF THE TRAIL". As if the rest of us weren't being held up by the 20 riders in front of us. Yeah, were all going to get off the trail so you, and only you can pass. Great idea guy. I don't think he offended anyone, just made himself look like an idiot. Most people are really pretty good about it though. I either ususally just hear someone say "on your left", or "I need to get by you buddy", or I'll say the same. It does seem like the smaller the race, the more easy going everyone is.

  57. #57
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    I made some ******* passes today. I would like to apologize to the racing community.

    I was battling out one guy the whole entire race. We were respectively 1st and 2nd. On the third and final lap I tried my hardest to attack and gain enough distance to be out of sight and out of mind. After I gained some distance, I was gassed, and I lost it on some loose gravel and hit a stump and flipped OTB. I jumped up before I even hit the ground and was back on the bike physically but not mentally. I wrecked again moments after and gave up 1st and a lot of time.

    The whole last lap I gave it my all to catch him. My heart rate was pinging off its max and I was dizzy and making guttural gruntscreams. During my sprint to catch this SOB(good guy actually) I had to pass quite a few beginner riders on this super techy uphill. Im sure I looked like a crazy person being out of my mind going full throttle. The riders ahead of me were in the way putting along at beginner pace and I was coming in hot. I would holler "I need past". But a few of em only moved over half-ass and I ended up making shitty passes for us both. I kinda pushed a couple beginners off the trail while I shot past in haste.

    I felt really bad but it was season finals and I really wanted that #1 to end the season on the right foot. Also, this dude is bumping up to the next age race group next year and I really wanted to battle it out with him.

    With all that said, I hope you all understand where the "short temper" comes from. Racing means a lot to some people and sometimes we come across the wrong way while suffering during races. Im sure most of the same guys that are short on the trail are pretty calm and nice in the parking lot after they have accepted their finish.

    My days experiences and how they relate to the thread.
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  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whambat View Post
    Also, it's not just a case of Cat 1s lapping Cat 2s. Often, it's the fast guys of the next age group having to work through the slow guys of the younger age group. It's kind of a bummer to have a good gap on the rest of your group and then get held up by a slower rider while that gap disappears. However, I'm often the one getting passed, especially on climbs, and I try to let people by quickly when I can. Often, it helps out when I go to pass that same person on a tech or dh section. If you were nice enough to let them pass easy, they often return the favor.
    This is going to happen way more than a different cat coming up on a beginner

    I mean.. just start the beginners as the last wave if they are racing with the cat 2's


    just to add to the thread.. only people I yell at are the ones who walk up the hill on the best line, most other people I can ask nicely since I'm not blowing by them since they'r ein the same cat.

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bioteknik View Post
    This is going to happen way more than a different cat coming up on a beginner

    I mean.. just start the beginners as the last wave if they are racing with the cat 2's

    ...
    Depends on your field sizes. Around here all Cat 1/pro go as one wave, all Cat 2 as one wave, and all Cat 3 as one wave due to our field sizes being small. Sometimes they'll start the ladies 1 minute later or something. Cat 2 is the largest and if there were 50 total men in it that would be a huge turnout. But your're right, if there were age group fields the leaders of the wave that starts after would likely make their way through the waves then went before.

  60. #60
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    Bottom line: People tend to "yell" when they get worked up. They yell while watching football games. They yell while playing football games. If yelling is such a turn off, don't race. We are not going to change anything by debating on the innergoogles.

    It is better to just accept that there will be racers who take what they do seriously. Cat3 to Pro....

    "Racing" is not a place for folks with sensitive feelings.

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheepo5669 View Post
    I race to win. If somebody is slowing me down im gonna demand a pass. "I need to pass if you get a sec".

    Im not in the business of sitting around slower than my potential during a race. Some people race for fun and might think im taking it too seriously but for me, racing is as competitive as it gets. Once you taste the podium you never want to go back.
    don't see anything wrong w/ that philoshphy as long as the faster guys realize that there are exceptions i.e.--bottle necks, tight single tracks etc.

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by KAriadne View Post
    I finally got the courage to try mountain bike racing because there is a beginner class. I want to get out there and see how well I can do, but I have a fear of being in the way of other riders. I know to get over as soon as it's safe, but what if they think a particular spot is good, but because I'm not as skilled it doesn't look safe to me?

    It occurred to me that with beginner class, if someone got pissy at me for holding them up they'd be taking beginner class way too seriously and I can just let their remarks roll off my back. Problem solved.

    Funny thing is, the first race where I'm not injured and the race isn't canceled has all the riders out on the course at the same time. I predict the Men's Cat I racers will start lapping me about 3/4 way into my lap.

    Oh well. I'll just do the best I can.
    if there is any bit of advise i can give you is HAVE FUN and be safe. get there early and warm up. if you get yelled @ @ any point, move over if you can, and if not smile and politely say, i'll move over as soon as i am able. good luck!

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by rydbyk View Post
    Bottom line: People tend to "yell" when they get worked up. They yell while watching football games. They yell while playing football games. If yelling is such a turn off, don't race. We are not going to change anything by debating on the innergoogles.

    It is better to just accept that there will be racers who take what they do seriously. Cat3 to Pro....

    "Racing" is not a place for folks with sensitive feelings.
    when i did those beginners race i too got worked up which for me meant wheezing in my lungs, cramping in my quads, headaches and pukeing in my mouth. prob to tired to yell...?
    ur right, nothing is going to get changed here, but i did have a fair question @ the begining: what is protocol when you can't get out of the way? i.e tight single track... rhetorical @ this point.
    lasty there is another option besides getting out of racing--one can take SWISCROSS' advise instead and hold the line. hahaha. j/k. peace

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by delgjor View Post
    when i did those beginners race i too got worked up which for me meant wheezing in my lungs, cramping in my quads, headaches and pukeing in my mouth. prob to tired to yell...?
    ur right, nothing is going to get changed here, but i did have a fair question @ the begining: what is protocol when you can't get out of the way? i.e tight single track... rhetorical @ this point.
    lasty there is another option besides getting out of racing--one can take SWISCROSS' advise instead and hold the line. hahaha. j/k. peace
    Sounds like this thread has been helpful. That's what MTBR is all about imo.. I was kinda suggesting that you just learn to accept the yelling and understand that it is nothing personal.

    I would hate to see you quit because it bothers you too much.

    Stick with it and go tear it up amigo Now I better not hear that you have become a "yeller" when you cat up in the next few seasons..haha

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by delgjor View Post
    if there is any bit of advise i can give you is HAVE FUN and be safe. get there early and warm up. if you get yelled @ @ any point, move over if you can, and if not smile and politely say, i'll move over as soon as i am able. good luck!
    Oh, I did have fun, thank you.

    I did not hear any "YELLING," just folks calling out "On your left!" (I got over immediately every time except one. There was only one good line through this gully, so I accelerated to the center of the trail--so he could see I wasn't getting over--and through it. I drifted right immediately and called, "Sorry, I needed the good line." I don't know if that was ok with him, but at least he didn't yell.)

    Found out that what I really need to work on is passing people. I guess it never occured to me that I'd be doing that. LOL.



    Edited to correct "but at least he did yell" to "but at least he didn't yell."
    Last edited by KAriadne; 10-14-2011 at 07:09 AM.

  66. #66
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    I have been on both sides of this. I raced this season in Cat 2 or sport. It seemed like every race, especially the few technical ones that I would catch the beginner class on the last and most important lap. I would be coming at them twice or three times as fast as they were going. I would yell off in the distance rider up and that would give them a little time to move over before I reached them. One person darted out of the way for me and she fell. I felt really bad about that one, but I wasn't yelling or anything. This has already been said as well but if you can tell someone is approaching at a much faster rate than you then move over and let them pass. They're probably not in your category or they're still going to destroy you if they're going that fast. I always make sure to use common courtesy and thank people when they let me pass. If someone is beside the trail I've offered all of them help, but nobody has taken me up on it so far.
    There is not much choice between rotten apples.

  67. #67
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    Slower rider gets out of the way

    Bottom line is that, if you're on a race course and a faster rider *from a different category* comes up behind you, get off the trail and let them race. I've been on both sides of the equation...

    If you're being held up by a slower rider, all of your hundreds of hours of hard training can be nullified if some rider won't let your chase your opponents.

    If you've got someone on your tail, you don't need the stress of someone breathing down your neck .. just pull over and let 'em past and everyone is happy and can ride their own race.

    If you're battling it out with someone in your own category, it's full on competition and there is no real protocol ... its a race and may the best man/woman win.

  68. #68
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    I say left or right just as I pass someone and then say thanks as I ride by its pretty standard practice in my region just like outside inside at crits and in field sprints. Always works well except when the idiot tries to shut the door on me then I just yell at them and make an aggressive (but still clean) pass.
    "Shut up legs!"- Jens Voigt

  69. #69
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  70. #70
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    eh...i think ill make my own thread now....hmm
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    This might be a bit late of a reply but when I come up on a racer I want to pass all I do is call out "I'll pass when it's safe"... Gee whiz, this isn't the Stanely Cup. We all have to go to work tomorrow and crashing and possibly injuring myself or someone else simply isn't worth it. Having said that, if someone is deliberately blocking me; they have voluntarily given up their right to politeness and I gladly follow their lead.
    In all things though, male or female, you give me an elbow in the ribs, you'll likely get a back fist in the face. I don't care who you are, there is no reason, no call and no excuse for that in mountain bike racing and just like the way I commute to work on a bike; I will never compromise my safety for your convenience. In the end, it's just a race and very few of us depend on it for our groceries and cable subscriptions... and if you do depend on it, what the heck are you doing in a race with beginners anyway? Man up and go race with the pros.

  72. #72
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    had my first race this past weekend, while i never got passed it was nice to see the good sportsmanship from people in and out of my category moving over to let me pass and wishing me luck. really cool to experience. all but 1 person moved over without me saying anything. the one guy waited until i asked, which i did politely and wished him luck as well.

    how friggin awesome is racing though? i had a blast!
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  73. #73
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    I did the bike leg of a dirty duathlon here in Iowa last weekend. All the leaves are off the underbrush and it was a twisty course--very easy to see who's coming up on you and vice versa.

    I saw that I was going to get lapped by two guys traveling fast, one right on the other's butt, so I pulled off just ahead of them reaching me and froze (I wasn't far off the edge, but they looked skilled enough to contend with that as long as I was motionless) until they both passed. I did not want to interfere with whatever they were battling it out for!

    The really cool thing is that on my third lap I got to start passing people!! I just waited till I saw a nice spot and called out sweetly, "I'm going to go for it here." Each situation was a little different, but they all worked. I feel much more confident about next season now.


    Edited to fix where/were typo. Gah!
    Last edited by KAriadne; 10-26-2011 at 12:14 PM.

  74. #74
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    I ususally find a way around without saying a thing. yelling will always be a part of racing though, get used to it.

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by rydbyk View Post
    When the guy passes you, yell at the top of your lungs "Git summm!!!!!!!"
    That is great!!!!
    I have to remember to do that...

  76. #76
    Trail Gnome
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    Passing/being passed etiquette:

    1. Try not to be a jerk.
    2. If someone is a jerk to you, try not to take it personally. We all make mistakes and have bad moments.

    This etiquette also works for life in general.

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by ray.vermette View Post
    Passing/being passed etiquette:

    1. Try not to be a jerk.
    2. If someone is a jerk to you, try not to take it personally. We all make mistakes and have bad moments.

    This etiquette also works for life in general.
    Words to live by!

  78. #78
    Lazy People Suck
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewarnerusa View Post
    With experience, you'll be able to tell what class the rider is coming up on you. If they are slowly crawling up to you, they are probably in your race/cat and Swisscross's comment may apply. If they are motoring up to your wheel and have the energy to shout loudly that you should yield the trail, then you'll know they are in a faster class and you are getting lapped. You should move over ASAP and let them by.
    I'm in Cat 2. My last XC race this summer the Cat 1 leader caught me on my last climb of my last lap. I heard him coming and was out of his way before he caught me, it gave me a chance to give him a good cheer as he cruised past. The Cat 2 guy in front of me was a bit oblivious, Cat 1 guy called "trail" once loudly and the Cat 2 didn't even acknowledge. He then called much more forcefully "MOVE!" and even then it took the Cat 2 guy a bit of time to move. Based on my quick assessment of Cat 2 guy, he seemed a little inexperienced with the race scene and didn't realize that you will probably get lapped at some point. As it turns out, 2nd place Cat 1 guy was only about 30 seconds behind. Cat 1 guy was racing for the win, of course he's going to be mad when his trail is blocked by a noncompetitor for his race.
    I don't know about this situation. If it is the last climb of the last lap, the Cat 2 guy ahead of you is probably maxed out and thinks it is you coming around rather than the Cat1 leader. On the last climb of the last lap, I am not pulling over for a guy in my same class. I won' t block him, but I am going to maintain my line.

    I race Cat1 and if I am coming around lapped traffic, I always make sure they know that we are in different categories. I find that Cat3 has more issues than Cat2 and Cat1 has even less issues. It is probably because there is likely a greater variable of speeds of the racers in the lower classes. In Cat1, everyone is pretty fast and, in most cases, we have been racing each other for quite a while, so you trust that they will pass you cleanly or, in the opposite situation, give room when it is available.
    "Son, The world needs ditchdiggers, too"-Ted Knight, Caddyshack

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