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  1. #1
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    quantifying time from other sports? base intensity balance

    I ski a lo,t and in the spring, I ride and ski. I am curious as to how I would quantify my ski time. I realize that my time hiking in the BC is probably close enough to biking in terms of cardio time, but what about DH skiing. I do ride the chair and ski hard all day a few days a week (3), and at a minimum, I ski as hard as I can for 2hrs a morning. Ski season is winding down, but not done. I am really trying to be honest with my time spent exercising, but the only importance of the time is in regards to bike training.

    I ask this due to my base situation and balance of intensity. I started doing base the first of March, or atleast quantifying it, trying anyway. I did roughly 2-4 hrs a week on the trainer and then probably 2-4hrs hiking and maybe 10-12 hrs a week DH sking. As the weather has turned I have been doing more bike. I am now 8-11 hrs of bike time and 2-4 hiking and 6-12 hrs dh skiing.

    Lots of rambling, hopefully building context, but the question?? I feel as if I carry a good base year round. I was under threshold doing z2 base stuff with a few intense efforts here and there. I did this for about three weeks. I assume if I am not hammering while hiking, I am doing good tempo sub-threshold work. I have added some 40 sec on 20 off intervals, some 5 min on 5 off stuff, and some 10 min or so cruise intervals(tempo ish). I am faster right now on many of my training rides than most of last season. Ive beat a few of my opersonal records. Its very early in the season for me and I do not want to peak early.

    I just need some feedback on what I am doing for conceptualization. good bad dumb smart...let me know.
    Thanks,
    Ryon
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  2. #2
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    quantifying time from other sports? base intensity balance

    Cross country skiing is the one that's supposed to be good for cross training and aerobic fitness in the off season.

    Downhill skiing and hiking on foot not so much. It isn't really specific enough to do anything at all for your cycling fitness, although downhill skiing could be useful for picking good lines when descending.

  3. #3
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    I also ski a lot and find it useless for base training. This year I only skied 10 times (normally it is about 40-45 days/winter for the last 20 years) and dedicated myself to a proper base cycle complete with 14-16 hours/week. That gave me zero time to ski.

    Sadly, I had to make a choice, since this year bike racing performance is my priority.
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  4. #4
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    Damn! So, I have probably added intensity to soon if my winter activities cannot count much for base. Are there any training ideas or philosophies that support the notion of year round fit athletes who may require a bit less base before they start into their build and peak training( or do more of sub threshold base)? I feel really good, but don't want to burn out on feeling fast and racing. I generally only race for two or three months anyway before I am toast. I still ride the same amount but loose the stress of racing. Thanks for the input.
    Ryon
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by butryon View Post
    Are there any training ideas or philosophies that support the notion of year round fit athletes who may require a bit less base before they start into their build and peak training( or do more of sub threshold base)?
    Ryon
    I would watch the 40s on 20sec off stuff til 3 weeks or so before first race

    see "daveryanwyoming" comments 3 posts down - I follow his posts. He's a pretty sharp guy.
    Off-Season Intensity

  6. #6
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    I want your life. 27 hours of being outdoors a week! Thats awesome.
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    Your hiking in the backcountry has got to be helpful, for those who have not done that, think of climbing stairs that squish down a little or a lot, while wearing heavy plastic boots, at altitude, - you have to be in decent shape to not suck serious air. Skiing hard is certainly better than sitting on your butt, from what I recall (having been a good skier years ago, and having had a skiing knee injury that took me out of bike racing for a while) it does work quite a few of the same muscle groups. Fast aggressive skiing in heavy or chopped up snow (not gliding down groomed trails etc), is a lot like repeatedly jumping a few feet down onto a soft surface, you're absorbing/slowing your decent accellerations at the turn, I think it might be pretty decent for off season bike training. You'd probably ideally add two bike trainer sessions per week over the winter.
    -all just my opinions.

  8. #8
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    I think what you're doing is great. Here's some thoughts:

    -Your doing something that you enjoy and keeps you fairly fit
    -You're keeping the volume high, and hopefully keeping the PE similar to base level (aerobic). You can do that split boarding just by traversing more when going uphill. I think it's easier to simulate a base intensity split boarding more so that skate skiing (it's very hilly where I skate ski).
    -When you are split boarding, most the time is skinning time, so your getting a lot of benefit for each BC hour
    -You are also spinning on the bike to keep some of that bike specific muscle memory.
    -As you convert from ski hours to bike hours, things should come together nicely.

    I just started riding three weeks ago after 2.5 months off. I did zero biking and crossfit type stuff 2-3X a week, and skate ski 1-2 times a week. It's taking me some time to adjust to the bike. It's a long process adjusting to such an unnatural position. It's a good thing you kept biking a bit.

    You're probably going to rock it at marathon nationals.
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    What is the concern with peaking too early?
    I am still new to all this "training" stuff.

  10. #10
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    One way to try and compare different activities is by looking at typical energy expenditure for each one. The tables below are extracts from:

    Exercise Physiology Theory and Application to Fitness and Performance by Scott K Powers and Edward T Howley Appendix B Pages A-5 to A15
    Exercise Physiology: Theory and Application to Fitness and Performance: Scott K. Powers, Edward T. Howley: 9780071316262: Amazon.com: Books

    In order to estimate energy expenditure using the tables you would do 0.0175 x (number of METS) x (your bodyweight in kg) = kcal per minute (multiply by 60 for kcal per hour)

    eg:
    Mountain Biking 8.5 METS ____ 0.0175 x 8.5 (METS) x70 (kg) = 10.41 kcal per minute
    Hiking Cross Country 6.0 METS ____ 0.0175 x 6.0 (METS) x70 (kg) = 7.35 kcal per minute
    Skiing Downhill Moderate Effort 6.0 METS ____ 0.0175 x 6.0 (METS) x70 (kg) = 7.35 kcal per minute

    Along with this you still have to consider muscle specificity from the exercise you're doing also.

    A drastic example of this training effect would be that I'm trying to get out and do 1 hour of walking per day on crutches, after months of being completely sedentary. It's hard work but gradually getting easier. Now walking on crutches most of that walking effort is being done by my shoulders and upper body. My shoulders have visibly better muscle tone and more muscle bulk after several weeks of 7 hours per week of walking regularly outdoors on crutches. At the same time the lack of tone in my leg muscles, that would normally be well developed if I was cycling, shows that the walking is clearly not transferring into any sort of cycling fitness.

    Say you did lots of hiking then you'd expect to get better at hiking. Your body's muscle groups whilst hiking or downhill skiing aren't being worked in the same way as they would if you were doing lots of cycling. It's this lack of specificity that you need to consider.







    Exercise Physiology Theory and Application to Fitness and Performance by Scott K Powers and Edward T Howley Appendix B Pages A-5 to A15
    Exercise Physiology: Theory and Application to Fitness and Performance: Scott K. Powers, Edward T. Howley: 9780071316262: Amazon.com: Books

    .
    Last edited by WR304; 04-06-2013 at 05:54 AM.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by 292beach View Post
    What is the concern with peaking too early?
    I am still new to all this "training" stuff.
    Peaking would probably be considered an advanced training technique
    Joe Friel's Blog: Peaking

    Before an event you should probably do something along the lines of:
    Rest a few days before event.
    for example day before race - 1 x 1 min race pace effort with spin.
    2 days before - 2 x 1 min race pace efforts with 2 min recovery between and spin,.
    3 days before - medium distance (for you) tempo ride

  12. #12
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    Watch what you wish for Sheepo. It comes with a life of crappy cars, crappy home, crappy furniture and sometimes it causes a crappy relationship. Beyond this stuff, it keeps medical bills low, pretty ok diet and I always know that my money went to skiing or biking.
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  13. #13
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    wr304 thanks for those charts. Ponch thanks as always. Its tough to argue with mother nature. We had a few good days and things started to dry out quick. Now, as I write this, its snowing. Minus the specificity piece, I think skiing is a great cross training sport, but it sets me up to come out of the winter unsure about my fitness for the bike. Thanks guys. Ryon
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    By spending a fair amount of time on the trainer in combination with all the BC and DH, I bet you have trained pretty well. Some of the fastest people I know on mtbs are ski bums. If you take a good training camp to warmer parts during mud season, I bet you transition to riding well.
    Mike Kloser, from Vail, and Josh Tostado, from Breck, are some more famous ski bums that had great results on the bike, but they do spend a little time on the bike throughout the winter.

  15. #15
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    quantifying time from other sports? base intensity balance

    Quote Originally Posted by butryon View Post
    wr304 thanks for those charts. Ponch thanks as always. Its tough to argue with mother nature. We had a few good days and things started to dry out quick. Now, as I write this, its snowing. Minus the specificity piece, I think cross country skiing is a great cross training sport, but it sets me up to come out of the winter unsure about my fitness for the bike. Thanks guys. Ryon
    I fixed the quote for you.

    Greg LeMond used to be a fan of cross country skiing for training in the off season. Here's a book extract on the subject:



    The Complete Book of Long-Distance Cycling By Ed Burke and Ed Pavelka Page 200

    http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=S...skiing&f=false

    If you're going to be outdoors then cross country skiing would probably be a better use of your available time. It's going to help build aerobic fitness that should transfer to the bike.



    Downhill skiing may be fun but isn't as intense. Also, needing to use a helicopter to reach the slopes,



    drinking schnapps in alpine restaurants



    and stopping to admire the view means you don't get as consistent a workout.

    Last edited by WR304; 04-09-2013 at 04:35 PM.

  16. #16
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    That's good stuff! I wish I could use a helicopter from time to time. Its all by foot for me, at least until the lotto turns my way. As far as the schnapps and scenic views, ...Idaho. Its more like PBR and nothing like that women. She would cause accidents here. I generally only xc ski when I am in deep $hit with my wife. XC skiing for me is like riding my road bike: I do it, I am fairly proficient, but I like going up and coming down. Something about wicked descents and awesome terrain that gets my wang up!quantifying time from other sports? base intensity balance-phone-april12-march12-346.jpg
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails quantifying time from other sports? base intensity balance-phone-april12-march12-321.jpg  

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