protein powder before and/or after rides
I usually ride hard every day I'm wondering if having protein powder will put weight on. I'm skinny I'd like to weigh about 10-15 pounds more. someone that isn't a rider told me powder is only going to help if I'm lifting weights and giving my muscles something new to do. I'm thinking about having a serving of 28g in milk an hour before i ride and another an hour after the ride.
It sounds easy enough, but more food will put weight on you. Protein powders should be used to supplement whole food protein intake. A decent whey protein mixed with ground oats and all natural PB makes a solid mrp. Add some skim milk and you can easily push 1000 kcal in one shake.
Focus on consuming 4-5 whole meals per day each meal containing lean protein, low Gi carbs, and fruits/veggies. Start here and you'll be on the right track.
Btw, I'm not sure I could stomach whey in milk prior to a ride. Maybe whey in water with a bowl of oats mixed with berries. This is a pretty good pre ride meal for me.
I really like the Gatorade premade recover drinks post ride. I'll usually slam two of those depending on the ride then go eat a solid meal 30-60 minutes later.
Are you trying to gain muscle bulk specifically for cycling or just in general? If you're naturally skinny, and your aim is to put on an additional 10-15 pounds of muscle bulk then adding a little protein powder to your current diet and exercise regime won't be very successful.
There are a few basic steps to consider in order to gain weight and build muscle:
You can't easily do lots of cycling and build significant amounts of muscle at the same time. Doing lots of cycling burns calories, which can make it hard to eat enough to gain weight. If you reduce your cycling volume on the bike significantly for a few months then it will make it easier to increase muscle bulk. The calories you spare by doing less riding can go towards building muscle instead.
In order to gain muscle you first of all need to eat enough calories and protein. This is in order to give your body's muscles the additional fuel that they need to increase in size. This usually means increasing your daily calorie intake gradually from its current level until you begin to gain weight. If you don't eat enough calories then you won't gain any additional weight. You don't want to overeat too much though as then you'll get fat, instead of adding muscle, so there's a balance to be found. If everything goes well then gaining 1-2lbs of weight per week would be a reasonable goal to aim for.
Weight training is an effective way of building muscle. Doing compound exercises which use multiple muscle groups is a good starting point. Keep the routine simple and focus on key exercises. Weight training 3-4 days per week with focused good quality 1 hr sessions each time is enough to get good results.
Compound Exercise examples:
Bodybuilding.com - 6 Compound Training Movements Build Serious Mass!
Spending 3 hours a day in the gym 7 days a week isn't necessary or a good thing (unless you're aiming to be a top bodybuilder, and even then the sessions include a lot of periodization i.e. arms one day, legs the next etc with several days rest between working the same body part again.) As a beginner you should avoid that sort of routine. Rest is a very important part of weight training so don't overdo it and make sure you have enough days off. The rest days are where your body actually adapts to the work that you've done and builds new muscle.
If you don't have much experience of weight training start off with light weights and gradually build up, concentrating on good form for the exercises. Don't make the mistake of trying to lift heavy weights straight away. You have to be careful not to pick up any injuries from the weight training so it could be worth an induction at a gym where you're shown how to do the exercises also.
Have a look through these articles about training and nutrition for building muscle for some ideas:
Bodybuilding.com - Bodybuilding For Beginners SuperFeature.
Bodybuilding.com - Huge Training Bodybuilding Article Database! - Bodybuilding.com
can you tell me exactly how to make one of these 1000 cal shakes?
Originally Posted by Possum Jones
i'm trying to gain muscle or fat, whichever way i don't have to spend much time making food to get me 10-15 pounds, its for cycling because if I do alot of riding i don't want to see my self loose much weight, I can't afford to cause i weigh 125 right now. I did a 15 mile ride that is usually nothing for me but i felt shaky on near the end, when I got home i was only 123 and I think thats why i felt bad cause there was nothing on me to burn.
Well I'm gonna differ on Possoms aproach a bit and throw out some ideas.
First skip the skim milk and have whole if you want to gain weight.
Don't think it's a good idea to have supplements mixed with whatever more than twice a day, without having some real food with it, even when training your hardest, and certainly not back to back. If you'd like to add protein powder to a meal that's fine. Eat a good rounded meal but not too heavy about an hour before your ride, or any exercise, and a whey protein shake blended with whatever you like right after. If your riding for more than 3 hours than certainly snack through out to keep food energy available and avoid burning stores like fat and muscle. Even with these snacks you're going to go into fasting mode, which I'll get into later, because you're using so much energy and you don't wanna cut too far into stores if you wanna gain weight. If your gonna do a second protein shake, make it a casein protein one and have it right before bed. Cassein is slow digesting so it'll feed your muscles longer as you sleep.
I'm guessing that you're young, and your metab is naturally racing, but even if you're not, a good way to trick, or get your body to store more is to let it go into "fasting mode". About 3 hours after you eat you start to enter fasting mode. that's when your body starts to run out of food energy and run off stores. Then your body WILL store some of your next meal as a precaution for the next fasting mode event. Obviously you wanna eat as much as possible, but the trick is to go at least 4-5 hours without any snacks, maybe longer if you've been inactive, and then eat a really big meal, especially before bed.
Diet changes can sometimes take some time for your body to adjust to.
Another thing I'll throw out there, which might go against your way of thinking even more than the above but will help in the long term, is to fast (not eat) for 24 hours. every few months or before anything more than minnor changes in your diet. It'll get the changes to happen faster because it'll give your body and digestive system a little shock and break. Get it ready for, and also get to wonder what's coming next.
Have found any casein protein powders I've tried to taste nasty, and cottage cheese would be your best real food source of it. As far as whey protein powder I'll recommend "Optimum Nutrition's Gold Standard" especially thier all natural version for both cost and taste. BTW there's whey protein which is best for quickly feeding your muscles, like right after exercise, and the other extreme would be casein which is slowly digested. Both whey and casein come from milk but there's also protein powder blends and/or weight gainers. Lots of 'em are loaded with things like sugar and fat so most avoid them for that reason but if gaining any type weight is your goal, they will serve you well.
Another thing is, muscle will speed your metab, even at rest, so the more you have the faster your metab. Also, the effort to gain it will burn calories and the effort will also increase your metab so? Don't know why a person would wanna know how to just get fat, lol, but I thought you should know that because those are facts. If your gonna do any weight training, do big compound moves like squats, dead lifts, and bench presses. Push your limits if you wanna gain muscle but stay nice slow and controlled. Try not to do it fast enough where you even break a sweat.
Last edited by theMeat; 09-25-2011 at 10:43 PM.
Round and round we go
I have a protein shake after a race, especially if I'm in the middle of no where. I mix my whey protein with water and I think it tastes great. I would definitely mix it with milk if you want to gain weight. You can get an entire meal of calories from drinking whole milk alone. Eat pbnj before bed with whole milk if you want a lot of calories. Peanut butter has a lot of calories. Of course more peanut butter equals more calories so put it on there thick.
There is not much choice between rotten apples.
1.5-2 cups milk, ~2 tblspn peanut butter, 1 scoop whey protein, 1 banana, 1/4 cup steal cut oats (can either grind them in a coffee grinder, or cook a whole bunch and then let them cool....normal oats are ok too). something like that's around 1000 calories.
Originally Posted by Gabe3
i prefer the 'rippetoe' method for overall weight/strength gain. easy to google or wiki.
basically lifting 3 days a week focusing on the 5 main lifts (squats, deadlifts, bench, military press, cleans/rows) in a specific regimen. easy to be in and out of the gym in 30 minutes, still have energy to bike....but if you eat enough, you can put on some mass in a hurry.
sounds like you might be quite similar to me.
I was recently advised by a nutritionist that i need to eat more protein and fat because otherwise my fast metabolism just burns through carbs too fast leaving me with no energy for riding. when you end up like that the body consumes itself, particularly the muscles. for this reason i would be very cautious about fasting... hard to say for sure without knowing the specifics of your body
having done so, i have gained a bit of weight rather than struggling to maintain it when doing lots of riding. as a result i am able to ride more so despite carrying a touch more weight am faster.
riding won't so much stimulate muscle growth like doing weights but if you've been riding all the bulk out of your body then you will gain muscle back to restore your body if you give it the fuel.
you'll need to experiment with what works for you but be wary of consuming too much protein or fat within an hour or so before a high intensity ride - your stomach will let you know!
if you do need to add protein to your diet then powder can be a part of that - whole food is better but if you need really high intake it can be difficult to achieve any other way. it does allow you to have protein without bulk which makes it better for before a ride.
hope that all makes some sort of sense... take sensible advice from where ever you can get it but in the end you need to work out what works for you and your individual body
I'll definitey second anything Mark Rippetoe will say/recommend. In fact, go buy his book Starting Strength 2nd addition. It's a great resource to have and will teach you proper forum on all the basic compound power exercises.
Originally Posted by nomit
I'm a noob to mtb but I come from a powerlifting back ground. Training for strength/power plus a caloric excess will go a long way towards helping you reach your goal of increasing size.
Btw, there's no reason to gain excessive amounts of fat just because you need to gain weight. I'm assuming you're here because you ride mtbs. I see no instance where extra fat added to your frame would help with anything in this sport.
Can't say Mark Rippetoe's wrong, but I also can't say I finished the book because there's really nothing new or cutting edge about his methods. I will say that what works well for some won't work as well for others, and there's more than one way to skin a cat so? Do your research, make a plan, stick to the plan for at least a month to see if it's working. Again YMMV but a couple of pretty constant facts for all people to gain weight is to eat more, less often so you lower metab, and restrict energy use so you burn less calories and lower metab.
Check out Lee Hayward's website for some good free info if you poke around. Both him and his bud Vince Del Monte were "hardgainers" and thier book "21 day fast mass building" is certainly more directly related to your goals. Google "LeehaywardTV" for a free realtime show where you can ask questions live. Think it's on Thurs nights.
How tall are you? What do you currently weigh? How old are you?
It's quite hot in Florida. If you weighed 125lbs before going out for a 15 mile ride in the sun, but only 123lbs immediately after you got back then you didn't actually burn off 2lbs of fat or muscle during the ride.
Originally Posted by Gabe3
The 2lbs of weight that you lost will be water that you've sweated out during the ride, meaning that you're dehydrated. When you get home and drink fluids your body will naturally replenish its fluid levels. As soon as you get back in from the ride have your protein shake, and then keep drinking plenty of fluid over the next few hours. The types of fluid you should be drinking to rehydrate yourself are water, fruit juice, milk etc rather than alcohol. You should find that you have returned to your previous body weight when you weigh yourself later in the evening after the ride.
Dehydration and/or heat stroke will leave you feeling shaky and weak. When riding it sounds like you need to take some additional drink with you. If it's very hot then you could need to drink 1-2 500ml bottles each hour of riding. Topping up your fluid levels pre-ride will help also so drink plenty of fluid spread out over the hour before you ride. If it's a hot day then have a cold drink (eg: 600ml of plain cold water with crushed ice in) a few minutes before setting off. The cold fluid will lower your body temperature slightly to begin with, helping you to deal with the hot weather.
If you don't already then eating some solid food before and during the course of the ride should help with your energy levels also. Food like cereal bars, malt loaf, fig rolls and bananas are all good. Eat small amounts regularly throughout the ride, rather than a single large amount so that you can digest it whilst riding.
Food is your best friend. Dont sweat the Glycemic Index and eat whats tasty my brother. If I diddnt cheat with tons simple carbs and fatty meats I would be 10 pounds lighter and I already am thin and cut. Try to get as many meals as you can each day. I shoot for every 2-3 hours. If you are physically feeling hungry, you have waited too long to eat.
If you wanna put on some weight try picking up a simple weight lifting routine. It will give all your extra calories a purpose in the body, instead of just packing on as extra fat. But dont get too excited about muscle if your are trying to be a competitive racer. While a little bit helps with out of the saddle sprints, a lot will 'be overkill' and slow you down on the climbs.
Just look at The Meat, hes slow as hell!!!!
A couple days a week in the gym should only help.
Good luck my friend and keep us posted!
Raised in a Chicken-Coop by Chickens
Well "Sheepo" and others who claim eating every 3 hours is good for adding weight, obviously genes, age whatever is gonna play a roll, and eating more times can increase your calorie intake, but that can be a double edged sword since eating fewer times a day is sure to get anyone more into a storage mode situation. Not to mention that a few days a week at the gym can also burn calories and speed metab. If adding only muscle is your goal than you're right, but if any type weights or fat is your goal, not so much.
I agree, as you know Sheepo, with your advice, and would recommend someone get healthier throu diet and exercise as you describe, but i'm just layin out the fact and trying to answer the OP.
Oh and slow as hell? hahaha. Don't let the name fool ya. Didn't get the name "theMeat" because I'm fat or bulky, and I'm not particularly known to be a meathead either. LOL.
This is all very true man. You do make valid points about increased metabolism with lifting and frequent eating, but I would not recommend any racer to be sedentary and put on fat weight by going into starvation mode. After all, this question was posted in the racing forum so I gave a response for athletes. I don't know one racer that wishes they had more fat weight on them.
As for your name, way too much information my man! lol let's keep that info between you, your gf, and your physician.
Raised in a Chicken-Coop by Chickens
Protien before and after mixed with a qucker absorbing carbohydrate. The idea is to keep the body for catabolizing muscle tissue. It takes a concerted effort of eating above your body's needs to gain weight fi thats your goal.
gatorade before, muscle milk with skim milk and some fresh fruit after. My fav is chocolate muscle milk with some strawberries in the blender
I also like bolthouse farms or naked juices with a scoop of whey protein thrown as a post ride drink.
Trader Joes makes a couple different kinds of canned protein shakes (21 grams & 35 grams of protein), which make on-the-go post-ride nutrients really easy.
i'd encourage you to focus more on eating proper whole foods that contain dense energy (carbs/protein/nutrients) rather than jumping straight to a supplement source. also, supplementing prior to exercise might actually work against you depending on what type of supplement you're taking. try to just have a banana or something light before working out and then eat heavier stuff after.
also, make sure you eat *within 15 minutes* of completing your major exercise.
Don't know about all types of "Muscle Milk" but the ones I've seen have creatine, which can have side effects for some or just simply may not be wanted. Yes creatine is in food, with red meat having the most, but you'd need to eat like 27 burgers a day to get the amount that a couple of shakes will give you. Creatine needs to build up in your system to have any benifits, or side effects. Muscle milk also has a lot of fat and sodium compared to alot of whey protein powders.
Originally Posted by eddie80
Have cycled on and off creatine a few times and aside from adding a few pounds of water weight, I don't think it gave me any side effects, and the benifits, for me, were small as far what it's intended to do for recovery and energy. Have seen some get shaky and jitery from it.
I'm not saying that creatine is bad, you can make that choice yourself, just that you should take it knowingly, and if you're gonna suppliment with it, do it seperate so you can control the amount better. So when/if you up your protein with suppliments, you're not upping your creatine also and vise-verse.
I agree with the above poster but in a busy lifestyle a whey protein shake right after a workout can certainly help with getting quality protein to support your efforts, unless getting a quality meal is possible and IMO would be better.
Last edited by theMeat; 10-03-2011 at 11:53 AM.
Round and round we go
Here is an excellent primer for you that may help, and is easily understood for all intents and purposes:
How To Gain Healthy Weight And Muscle | LIVESTRONG.COM
This thread is a humorous complement or juxtaposition to another thread out here pertaining to an individual who inquired about muscle mass and xc racing.
I got my lunchbox and I'm armed real well...
Dont waste your money. Start eating lean meats like chicken, turkey, and fish (salmon, tuna, ext), also hard boiled eggs, greek style yogert. Tune your diet first.
Whey is heavily processed to get it into powder form. Dont think for a second it is as good is getting protien directly from the source. Start paying attention to lables at the super market.
Not gonna get an argument from me that powders are as good for you as real, especially "clean" foods, but gram for gram powders are way cheaper so not a waste of money.
Not to mention whey is way easier to slam back after a ride. Where else are you gonna get 40-50 grams of protein immediately after a ride? No way in he'll you can get home and cook a wholesome
meal within 30 mins.
Raised in a Chicken-Coop by Chickens
I wouldn't call protein a waste of money. You have to eat a $shitload of chicken to get 50 grams protein like Sheepo said. Also you should look into a product called Interabolic made by Athletic Edge. It is a inter workout drink that I sip during races. Combine that with Cordygene Ultra and you will be a beast on the mountain. I get about 200 grams of Protein a day, 175lbs.
My GF is a personal trainer/nutritionist. I just take the credit for he smarts.
I didnt read this whole thread.
Protein is made to supplement a good diet. Sounds like you dont care if your building muscle or not. You should eat more and more often if you want to gain though. Protein shakes with oatmeal mixed in a blender with peanut butter make a good breakfast or post ride shake 1-2 hours befor a ride. Its a good mean replacement if your looking to lose weight and a good extra meal if your looking to gain weight. Obviously eating healthy whole food is better than fast food.
I took a break from riding and have done some strength training. When i hopped back on the bike it felt amazing and i felt faster than before. I have no proof that i am but i was able to ride my home trails alot.longer wothout stopping and at a faster rate. My hands tired long before any of my other body parts did which is very unusual for me be bing a mechanic.
Gaining weight or muscle and losing weight should be done eating the same healthy whole foods. To lose weight eat less calories of the same foods and do cardio(running/riding). To gain weight eat more calories of the same foods and weight train. Find out what your base caloric intake should be and adjust your intake accordingly.
Last edited by The Diesel; 10-06-2011 at 11:56 AM.
I'm similar to your weight, about 133 most days during season and 5'8. My caloric intake varies depending on training but one piece of advice is like others have said, is to eat often and take in calories that are going to give your body the best payout. Stay hydrated throughout the day prior to riding, and always have a Gu packet or a quick snack with you on rides over 2hrs for emergencies, especially if your in the woods by yourself away from civilization.
Originally Posted by Gabe3
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