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  1. #1
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    Problems with my weight.

    I've always had a race weight around 170. Last April I got down to 165. In August and September I started slowly gaining weight and got up to 188 by December. I got lazy with my eating, and started racing cross so I figured that the extra beer I was drinking had something to do with it. I also started back with my weight program in October, so I figured that could have been part of it. But now, it's the middle of march... I've been eating great, tracking calories, training 6 days a week doing alot of volume during my base period and I'm still 183. I stared eating good during the first week of January and have only had a few days where I over ate. Am I missing something?? Any one have any advice to help me get my weight down?

  2. #2
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    Paleo Diet works pretty well. Hard to be really strict Paleo but "heavily Paleo influenced" is pretty good. Cut out the beer?

    Larry

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    If you've been tracking calories have you been keeping a detailed food diary, such as on Myfitnesspal.com?

    Have you been keeping a training diary of your riding also?

    If you have both then I'd take a look back through and see what you were doing over the last few months. One thing that's really easy to do is to assume that because you're doing more volume riding you should push up your calorie intake significantly to compensate. Even though you're doing more riding the increase in food means you don't actually lose any weight, something I've been guilty of regularly in the past.

    The other thing is that your estimates of calories burnt whilst riding could be too high, or your estimates of calories eaten could be too low. If you're estimating calories burnt whilst riding using a heart rate monitor, the calories burnt figure calculated by the heart rate monitor will often be on the high side. If you then try to match that with food intake you can end up over eating, or still eating enough that you don't lose weight.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by k6monster View Post
    I've always had a race weight around 170. Last April I got down to 165. In August and September I started slowly gaining weight and got up to 188 by December. I got lazy with my eating, and started racing cross so I figured that the extra beer I was drinking had something to do with it. I also started back with my weight program in October, so I figured that could have been part of it. But now, it's the middle of march... I've been eating great, tracking calories, training 6 days a week doing alot of volume during my base period and I'm still 183. I stared eating good during the first week of January and have only had a few days where I over ate. Am I missing something?? Any one have any advice to help me get my weight down?
    Caveat: I'm with you. I usually pack on about 7 - 10 pounds in the "off season". This year was about 10 and I've knocked off 6 of them so far with 4 more to go.

    23 pounds - that's a pretty decent weight gain you had from 165 to 188 in just 8 months time which means you increased your body weight by 14%. There's a good chance that it would take about 8 months to lose that much as well, so be patient. Even if you were running a 500 calories per day deficit than your total calorie needs, expect it to take a good 23 weeks (5 3/4 months) if you were able to actually lose a pound a week. Longer if you are losing less than a pound per week.

    I say one pound per week since a pound a week is a good healthy guideline to shoot for when it comes to trimming the amount of weight you are trying to lose. It has only been 2 1/2 months and you've already lost 5 pounds. That's good, but it shows that your daily deficit is not quite enough to shed a pound per week, so you're simply going to have to eat less/drink less calories than you are if you want to trim down for the 2013 race season. You won't starve by losing a pound per week.

    I assume you have a scale. Get on it religiously every morning and let the scale dictate your daily intake - one day at a time.
    Last edited by BruceBrown; 03-15-2013 at 07:15 PM.

  5. #5
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    I've always had a hard time with my weight. Even when I was racing full time and putting in an insane amount of miles I struggled to get under 175 (at 6' tall). Part of it is I'm not built like a bike racer - I'm broad shouldered and chested, I get big muscular legs. I would have been a great track racer but instead I've raced in an area where you need to be a skinny little climber.

    The other part is controlling my cravings. Part of that is pure calories in and out, once I start getting close to 10% body fat my cravings start talking really loud . Even worse, I have a sweet tooth and cutting out all things sugary helps a lot although it takes a fair amount of will power.

    I don't know that the "paleo" diet or any of the other (fill in the blank) diets are what you need, just be disciplined with what and how much you eat. Stay with whole foods, stay away from processed foods. Only eat high glycemic foods during exercise when you're going to burn the calories quickly. I used to eat energy bars as snacks and that really messed with my weight.

    As others have said, make sure you're doing a good job tracking calories in and out which takes some effort. Unless you want to spend the big bucks, calories out is particularly hard to determine accurately since there are so many variables.

  6. #6
    lgh
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    One other thing I should add. When you eat is important. Right after exercise is prime time for refueling. After that, cut way back on calories.

    Larry

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    Quote Originally Posted by lgh View Post
    Paleo Diet works pretty well. Hard to be really strict Paleo but "heavily Paleo influenced" is pretty good. Cut out the beer?

    Larry
    +1 on Paleo. Paleo not a 'diet' - more of a lifestyle.
    The Paleo Diet for Athletes: The Ancient Nutritional Formula for Peak Athletic Performance: Loren Cordain, Joe Friel: 9781609619176: Amazon.com: Books

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by lgh View Post
    Paleo Diet works pretty well. Hard to be really strict Paleo but "heavily Paleo influenced" is pretty good. Cut out the beer?

    Larry
    Paleo for a competitive endurance athlete? Good luck training at a high intensity level on a low carb diet.
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  9. #9
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    Did you lift weights in the off season?
    Raised in a Chicken-Coop by Chickens

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    Problems with my weight.

    I'm going to try the paleo diet again. I lost alot of weight 2 years ago doing it, but I got the flu and didn't feel like eating "paleo" while I was sick, and never went back to it. I included rice into my meals when I did it, for extra carbs. I quit drinking beer, and when keeping track of calories, I'm taking 10% off of whatever my garmin tells me for calories burned. I'll see what happens....

  11. #11
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    Problems with my weight.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheepo5669 View Post
    Did you lift weights in the off season?
    Yes... This is my last week doing a weight routine for awhile.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheepo5669 View Post
    Paleo for a competitive endurance athlete? Good luck training at a high intensity level on a low carb diet.
    I have been on the Paleo diet for almost 1.5 years now and I feel great and it is much easier to control my weight.

    As for training at a high level... I podium in my Cat 1 races and bonk much less than I did when eating grains and sugars, etc. I also don't eat nearly as much while ON the bike. Not to mention I feel much better daily without sugar/carb crashes.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by k6monster View Post
    I quit drinking beer, and when keeping track of calories, I'm taking 10% off of whatever my garmin tells me for calories burned. I'll see what happens....
    What sort of calories burnt figures is your Garmin producing on typical rides?

    Calories burnt from a heart rate monitor can over read by a lot more than 10%. The picture below shows two rides on the same route that I did one year apart. One was recorded with a Polar RS800CX heart rate monitor, whilst the other was recorded with my Powertap. Same rider, same route, same time trial format, same bike, similar average heart rate (159bpm 21 August 2010, 156bpm 02 July 2011) and similar ride times, although I was quicker in 2011.

    The Polar RS800CX heart rate monitor estimates calories burnt from heart rate, the user details entered in the watch and exercise duration. The Powertap hub records the actual mechanical work performed in kilojoules. As a general assumption you can roughly say that one kilojoule recorded by the Powertap = 1 kilocalorie burnt.

    If you look at the summaries below there's a big difference in energy expenditure between the heart rate monitor and power meter for this ride. 2107 kcal for the heart rate monitor and 1535 kcal for the power meter (assuming that 1 kj = 1kcal burnt). Of the two the power meter figure is likely to be closer to the actual energy expenditure, meaning that the heart rate monitor was over reading by 572 kcal.

    If you were to use the energy expenditure figure provided by the heart rate monitor to try and eat exactly the calories burnt then you'd end up overeating, as it's based on an inaccurate figure. Unless you have some lab tests done any estimates for your daily energy expenditure (including time spent sleeping, sitting at a desk etc as you're still burning calories) are just that - estimates. You need to use your judgement to decide what's appropriate, rather than getting carried away trying to match your calorie intake exactly to what a particular table or device says.

    Calories Burned by Exercise, Calorie Expenditure Chart



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  14. #14
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    Problems with my weight.

    I just compared my garmin results with the results on training peaks. The kj's are within 2% of what the garmin said for every workout I looked at. But that's what garmin connect said... Maybe it's different when looking at the garmin after a workout.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheepo5669 View Post
    Paleo for a competitive endurance athlete? Good luck training at a high intensity level on a low carb diet.
    Paleo is not low carb

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    Quote Originally Posted by scottz123 View Post
    Paleo is not low carb
    Are you kidding?

    It is a low carb. No grains, legumes, potatoes, other starches... You get carbs from other foods but they are non-refined carbs and not nearly as much of them. Paleo is heavy in fats and light in carbs.

    Trust me I know, I have been on it for nearly a year and a half and know a lot about the lifestyle and diet.

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    Problems with my weight.

    I'm still eating potatos.... Can't give up the occasional baked potato or baked sweet potato.

  18. #18
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    You said you lifted in the off season.

    Could you be carrying around an extra few pounds of muscle? You could be a lot closer to your goal than you think.
    Raised in a Chicken-Coop by Chickens

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    Problems with my weight.

    I hope so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by k6monster View Post
    I'm still eating potatos.... Can't give up the occasional baked potato or baked sweet potato.
    That is okay. If you read the book - Paleo for Athletes - it says endurance athletes can have these foods on occasion when training to help in muscle recovery and such. I do eat them occasionally as well. Or roasted sweet potato rounds. So delicious.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by aaronpass View Post
    Are you kidding?

    It is a low carb. No grains, legumes, potatoes, other starches... You get carbs from other foods but they are non-refined carbs and not nearly as much of them. Paleo is heavy in fats and light in carbs.

    Trust me I know, I have been on it for nearly a year and a half and know a lot about the lifestyle and diet.
    No kidding here. I guess it depends on what your definition of "low carb" is.

    Yes, carbs from a Paleo recommended list of fruits and vegetables. Some exceptions - recovery after workout for example.

    Per "A Quick Guide to the Paleo Diet for Athletes" by 2005 Loren Cordain, PhD and Joe Friel, MS

    "with carbohydrate intake at around 50%. During the build and peak (specific preparation) periods the intensity of training increases placing greater demands on the body for carbohydrate to fuel exercise. At this latter time of the season Stages III and IV become increasingly critical to the athlete’s recovery. Carbohydrate intake increases accordingly to around 60% of total calories with fat intake dropping to around 20%."
    Paleo Diet Meal Plan - A Quick Guide to the Paleo Diet for Athletes | TrainingPeaks

    50-60% of calories from carbs is not low to me. 20-30% of calories from fat is not heavy in fats to me.

    I think I would call Paleo more of a "type of carb diet" rather than a "low carb diet"

    Now 29% of calories from carbs per this bodybuilding article is low to me.
    Low-carb Bodybuilding Diet With Six Meals Per Day | LIVESTRONG.COM
    Last edited by scottz123; 03-18-2013 at 08:02 PM.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottz123 View Post
    No kidding here. I guess it depends on what your definition of "low carb" is.

    Yes, carbs from a Paleo recommended list of fruits and vegetables. Some exceptions - recovery after workout for example.

    Per "A Quick Guide to the Paleo Diet for Athletes" by 2005 Loren Cordain, PhD and Joe Friel, MS

    "with carbohydrate intake at around 50%. During the build and peak (specific preparation) periods the intensity of training increases placing greater demands on the body for carbohydrate to fuel exercise. At this latter time of the season Stages III and IV become increasingly critical to the athlete’s recovery. Carbohydrate intake increases accordingly to around 60% of total calories with fat intake dropping to around 20%."
    Paleo Diet Meal Plan - A Quick Guide to the Paleo Diet for Athletes | TrainingPeaks

    50-60% of calories from carbs is not low to me. 20-30% of calories from fat is not heavy in fats to me.

    I think I would call Paleo more of a "type of carb diet" rather than a "low carb diet"

    Now 29% of calories from carbs per this bodybuilding article is low to me.
    Low-carb Bodybuilding Diet With Six Meals Per Day | LIVESTRONG.COM
    You have to remember that you are pulling that information from Paleo for Athletes. That is focused on maintaining weight and keeping performance at its maximum while eating Paleo. That is not what is recommend for weight loss. The OP wants to lose weight and if he is going to do that on the Paleo diet, he needs to minimize fruits and starches as much as possible.

    Typical paleo is low carb. Read up on this if you want more information. Great for the OP as well.

    Frequently Asked Questions About The Paleo Diet | Dr. Loren Cordain

  23. #23
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    Paleo is a lost cause like all other "diets". It will only fail in the end. A lifestlye change to a vegan diet is the only way to get a lifelong change. Endurance requires a high carb intake, you have to keep your glycogen levels up. Not to say you can't get results on the paleo diet, I just don't think it's the safest way to go about losing weight. Go vegan for a month, give it a try and see how you feel.

    Check this Blog
    Durianrider's Blog | Not even 5 lawsuits have shut this blog down..the TRUTH must go on..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joshua_B View Post
    Paleo is a lost cause like all other "diets". It will only fail in the end. A lifestlye change to a vegan diet is the only way to get a lifelong change. Endurance requires a high carb intake, you have to keep your glycogen levels up. Not to say you can't get results on the paleo diet, I just don't think it's the safest way to go about losing weight. Go vegan for a month, give it a try and see how you feel.

    Check this Blog
    Durianrider's Blog | Not even 5 lawsuits have shut this blog down..the TRUTH must go on..
    So you say it is a lost cause like ALL other "diets" but you push Vegan? Vegan is the ONLY way to get a lifelong change. Linking to a Vegan blogger that is well known to be ANTI-MEAT with an article on why the Paleo Diet (lots of meat) is bad?? A bit hypocritical...

    There is no ONE right way to eat, some things work for some people and other things don't. It is a trial and error system to see what works best for YOU.

    The Paleo diet is designed around what humans (people) have been eating for 99% of their existence. It is pushing REAL foods that are unprocessed and healthy to eat. Why would something like this fail in the end? If someone decides to eat this way, how could it possibly be worse for you than eating white bread, Oreos and fast food? The fact of the matter is, society has a major problem with eating processed, quick, crappy food.

    And here is a link for you that trumps Durianrider's "theories".

    Success Story Summaries | Mark's Daily Apple

    Not only is it full of weight loss stories, it is littered with stories of people who had eating disorders, had trouble putting on muscle/weight. It is a very successful lifestyle.

  25. #25
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    Not sure I care for the anti-carb stuff. Stay away from the processed foods? yes but just because we ate a certain way (supposedly) for a long time, doesn't mean we can't adapt to new or different food types. That being said, I have not tried the paleo diet. Being a life-long lacto-veggie (42 now) I would guess probably over 1/3 of my diet is carbs of some sort.

    Also have that broad shoulder scandinavian warrior build so biking isnt really going to ever be my forte, but if I can get to and stay around 170lbs i'll be happy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NoBalance View Post
    Not sure I care for the anti-carb stuff. Stay away from the processed foods? yes but just because we ate a certain way (supposedly) for a long time, doesn't mean we can't adapt to new or different food types. That being said, I have not tried the paleo diet. Being a life-long lacto-veggie (42 now) I would guess probably over 1/3 of my diet is carbs of some sort.

    Also have that broad shoulder scandinavian warrior build so biking isnt really going to ever be my forte, but if I can get to and stay around 170lbs i'll be happy.
    Just a note - Paleo is not anti-carb. It is just focused on unrefined carbs and if you desire weight-loss, few of them. For athletes, especially endurance ones, they need more carbs for recovery and energy. Which can be had from yams, sweet potatoes, etc. And also, agriculture was only invented roughly 10,000 years ago, which is a very short time in the span of our existence.

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    Telling the fattest nation on the planet that eating a plate of fried sh*t for breakfast is "good for you" is just plain irresponsible. I see paleo cookbooks at the grocery store that have pictures of fried chicken on the cover. I don't believe the paleo diet is a good choice for already fit people who are concerned about long term wellness. Consuming copious amounts of cholesterol, saturated fat, trans fat (fried anything) and living in a perpetual state of ketosis is NOT a solution for long term wellness. It's a fad diet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joshua_B View Post
    Telling the fattest nation on the planet that eating a plate of fried sh*t for breakfast is "good for you" is just plain irresponsible. I see paleo cookbooks at the grocery store that have pictures of fried chicken on the cover. I don't believe the paleo diet is a good choice for already fit people who are concerned about long term wellness. Consuming copious amounts of cholesterol, saturated fat, trans fat (fried anything) and living in a perpetual state of ketosis is NOT a solution for long term wellness. It's a fad diet.
    Are you kidding me??? Show me one cookbook with fried chicken on the front.

    They may have been cooked in oil with an Almond or Coconut flour "breading" but they are never "fried" in vegetable/canola/crisco and definitely don't have any grain breading on them. Being in ketosis is not the goal, Paleo eaters eat plenty of healthy carbs from fruits, yams, and even vegetables. It has also be proven as of recent that eating cholesterol has no effect on your blood cholesterol. Your body was designed to eat healthy fats, so what is wrong with eating them then?

    Sounds like you are just like Durianrider, another Vegan up on his pedestal thinking everyone else is stupid for not eating like you.

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    Not to mention, since I have been on the Paleo diet, my cholesterol has dropped significantly. And the rest of my blood work has come back with flying colors.

  30. #30
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    Can any of you Paleo or Vegan please point me to an actual scientific study that has found athletic performance advantages for either diet? Besides someone saying "I'm Paleo and I win all my local races".

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    Whoa! I don't think you are stupid. I used to eat meat and in fact if you wanna eat it go for it. I feel durian is a bit over the top on some things. I'm no PETA supporter. In fact I have Guns. I am an NRA member, and I came from a family that hunts. I just feel that their is a HUGE benefit to being veggie. All these "diets" on the market just set people up to fail and they just pad some **********s pocketbook while you buy Paleo products,powders whatever it may be.
    Mood dude-research The Gerson theory

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    Personally I think it depends on the person. So it is hard to show a scientific study that shows an advantage. For either.

    I think it is more about how you feel and long-term health. Honestly I am in the mindset that even if it made me slightly slower on the bike, but made me a healthier person overall, it is well worth it.

    Here are some good write-ups from athletes though:

    Vegan vs. Paleo Diets For Athletes: My*Experience - Posts - TrainingPeaks Blog

    Primal Compromises for Athletes | Mark's Daily Apple

    Go Paleo: Why Athletes Should Ditch the Pre-Race Pasta*Party - Posts - TrainingPeaks Blog

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joshua_B View Post
    Whoa! I don't think you are stupid. I used to eat meat and in fact if you wanna eat it go for it. I feel durian is a bit over the top on some things. I'm no PETA supporter. In fact I have Guns. I am an NRA member, and I came from a family that hunts. I just feel that their is a HUGE benefit to being veggie. All these "diets" on the market just set people up to fail and they just pad some **********s pocketbook while you buy Paleo products,powders whatever it may be.
    Mood dude-research The Gerson theory
    I just find it funny you you keep saying "these diets" but don't think eating Veggie is a diet as well...

    I have not bought one Paleo "product" since I have been eating on this diet. In fact, I would say it encourages NOT supporting some ********s pocketbook (i.e. dumb corporations). Personally I know a lot of Paleo people who buy from their local butcher, farmer, farmer's market, etc. Just as a lot of vegans do.

    If you are truly eating Paleo, you don't eating processed products and powders. That is what the diet is all about. And just like you, I feel there is a HUGE benefit to being Paleo. And that is why there are different diets for different people.

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    One more link for those who want to hear the perspective from an elite mountain biker:

    Elite Mountain Biker Greg Parham Reveals Why Paleo Living Is The Key To Winning

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    Quote Originally Posted by k6monster View Post
    I just compared my garmin results with the results on training peaks. The kj's are within 2% of what the garmin said for every workout I looked at. But that's what garmin connect said... Maybe it's different when looking at the garmin after a workout.
    The problem is with using heart rate to try and estimate energy expenditure. All a heart rate monitor does is measure how fast your heart is beating. It doesn't actually know or measure how much energy you used during a workout. In order to calculate a calories burnt figure from heart rate it relies on heart rate plus a series of user entered assumptions to guess your fitness level, and from that guess your energy expenditure. The important word being guess as that's all it is.

    On a Garmin Edge 500 for example you have user entries for: gender, age, weight, height and activity class. See page 53 of the manual for the table relating to activity class.

    https://forums.garmin.com/showthread...lorie-accuracy

    http://www.tramsoft.ch/downloads/gar...-manual_en.pdf

    Have a look at the table on page 3 of this PDF comparing the accuracy of different heart rate energy expenditure estimation methods. Assuming that your user entered information is correct then there's still likely to be as much as a 35% margin of error in energy expenditure estimation using heart rate.



    http://www.firstbeat.fi/userData/fir...estimation.pdf

    How calorie measurement works on Garmin fitness devices | DC Rainmaker

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    Last edited by WR304; 03-19-2013 at 06:38 PM.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by aaronpass View Post
    One more link for those who want to hear the perspective from an elite mountain biker:

    Elite Mountain Biker Greg Parham Reveals Why Paleo Living Is The Key To Winning
    It's links like that one about the paleo diet (or alternatively the Durianrider vegan blog linked earlier) which just make me wonder. All these sites have their own agendas and twist the facts to suit. It really puts me off considering them. Paleo diet vs car and the diet wins. Really?

    "Many tout the healing powers of the Paleo Diet, and I’d have to say it is true. Not only was my body spared significant damage after hitting a car at 30 mph (nothing was broken, other than the dislocation), but I feel like the diet has helped keep me upbeat and supplied critical nutrients needed to heal." Greg Parham

    Elite Mountain Biker Greg Parham Reveals Why Paleo Living Is The Key To Winning

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    Problems with my weight.

    Riding in zone 2 (up to 205 watts for me) for one hour consistently (i.e. few downhill coasting) you will burn about 600 calories an hour. If you are mountain biking at a good pace it will be around 450-500 an hour. This is based on my experience with power meters on both bikes. It will fluctuate a bit based on your size and the power you can put out, but this is a very good estimate. Now from these estimates you will need to deduct your BMR (basal metabolic rate) because the power meter is including that in these numbers. My brother-in-law is a pro mountain biker and has an FTP of about 100 watts higher then me and his total calories burned isn't too much higher then me on most rides; usually within 100-300 calories when I am sitting in his draft the whole time.

    I went for a zone 2 ride for 1.5 hours today. I burned 963 calories and my BMR is 78 calories per hour. So 963 - (78 * 1.5) = 846 calories burned. That is the number I put in my calorie tracker (LoseIt!).

    So there it is, that is how I track my calories.
    My Team: Feedback Sports Racing

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    Quote Originally Posted by bikeguy0 View Post
    Riding in zone 2 (up to 205 watts for me) for one hour consistently (i.e. few downhill coasting) you will burn about 600 calories an hour. If you are mountain biking at a good pace it will be around 450-500 an hour. This is based on my experience with power meters on both bikes. It will fluctuate a bit based on your size and the power you can put out, but this is a very good estimate. Now from these estimates you will need to deduct your BMR (basal metabolic rate) because the power meter is including that in these numbers. My brother-in-law is a pro mountain biker and has an FTP of about 100 watts higher then me and his total calories burned isn't too much higher then me on most rides; usually within 100-300 calories when I am sitting in his draft the whole time.

    I went for a zone 2 ride for 1.5 hours today. I burned 963 calories and my BMR is 78 calories per hour. So 963 - (78 * 1.5) = 846 calories burned. That is the number I put in my calorie tracker (LoseIt!).

    So there it is, that is how I track my calories.
    What are your and your bro-in-laws FTP's? watts per kilogram?

    I know this is article is zone 1, but interesting read concerning calories consumed and actually leaning out
    Joe Friel - The Fat-Burning Myth

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    Fairly certain my teeth, feet, leg muscles and bones are designed for hunting, running down, killing and eating animals.
    Death from Below.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    Fairly certain my teeth, feet, leg muscles and bones are designed for hunting, running down, killing and eating animals.
    Were we not talking about exercise and losing weight....

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/7166535@N05/8575174274/" title="BaconT by BBcamerata, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8507/8575174274_709ae5ed28.jpg" width="333" height="381" alt="BaconT"></a>

    There, I'm easily sidetracked....and hungry.

  41. #41
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    Its Funny to me that someone considers 6 feet tall and 175 LBS a broad shouldered and muscular build.

    Also I agree that your main focus needs to be time and workouts on the bike. However I would not stop weight training completely. Keep doing core workouts a couple times per week. I would also try to maintain what strength gains you have made in the offseason by keeping 1 strength workout per week until you begin peaking for a race. Just a little bit of lifting will allow you to maintain 90% of the strength you have built. Don't give away the progress you have made because you are worried about 2 lbs of muscle.
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  42. #42
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    Problems with my weight.

    ( Cumulative calorie deficit ) / 3500 = pounds lost.

    Beans or beer. Raw meat or sweet potatoes. Whatever.

    That is all.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott In MD View Post
    ( Cumulative calorie deficit ) / 3500 = pounds lost.

    Beans or beer. Raw meat or sweet potatoes. Whatever.

    That is all.
    That's true in a mathematical sense, but what is at question is how you are arriving at total caloric deficit.

    On another note here is a very interesting article the diet that has produced a large percentage of the best endurance athletes in the world. Its neither vegan or paleo.

    Eating practices of the best endurance athletes in the world | Page 3 | Active.com
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  44. #44
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    I typically put on a few pounds over the winter. I find when I start intensity in the spring, the pounds fall off. I'm probably lucky that way.

    Interestingly, I don't seem to drop pounds/fat with the high volume base miles.

    I tried paleo for a while and just couldn't make it work with a family that doesn't consider new things. Cooking two meals at once sucks. My real goal when I looked into paleo was eating healthy. I think I found a lot of good information, especially around alternative vegetables, healthy fats etc. Cutting out the grains and starches makes it really hard to eat sufficient carbs. In my case where I drop weight with intensity, I had trouble holding weight. Got down to 158 @ 6' and had to up calories.
    Oh sh!+ just force upgraded to cat1. Now what?
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  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pedalfaraway View Post
    On another note here is a very interesting article the diet that has produced a large percentage of the best endurance athletes in the world. Its neither vegan or paleo.

    Eating practices of the best endurance athletes in the world | Page 3 | Active.com
    Very nice article.

    Key recovery tip that we all should know was mentioned on page 4 says this...

    In addition to taking in slightly more than the recommended amounts of carbohydrate and protein for athletes, the Kenyans also used another fundamental principle of sports nutrition to enhance their abilities to train and perform well: They always ate within one hour after workouts. This post-workout period when glycogen re-synthesis rates can be maximized, as long as adequate carbohydrate is provided in the diet (as was the case with the Kenyans). When carbohydrate ingestion is delayed after a training session, lower total intramuscular glycogen levels are often the result. Those Kenyans are smart!

  46. #46
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    You guys are too funny !!! I'm at 5'10 " and pushing 220 lbs. This is after eating up around 20 + lbs of muscle just to get where I'm at so I could ride the trails and not have to stop every 5 minutes to catch my breath. No one needs to fear me taking their spot on the podium...... LOL

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottz123 View Post
    What are your and your bro-in-laws FTP's? watts per kilogram?

    I know this is article is zone 1, but interesting read concerning calories consumed and actually leaning out
    Joe Friel - The Fat-Burning Myth
    Mine is 266w (1hour FTP) @ 3.25 w/kg. 180 lbs
    His is 361w (1hour FTP) @ 4.72 w/kg. 168 lbs

    This time of year. Obviously these number fluctuate a bit.
    My Team: Feedback Sports Racing

  48. #48
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    My two bits is to think as much or more about what you don't eat. Portion control is way more effective than saddling yourself with diet protocols. Eat healthy (you know what that means) and the portions you need to achieve the weight you want -- just don't try to drop too much too soon. That's about all there is to it, IMO.

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    For me, diets are pointless unless I can make it a lifestyle change that I can stick to.

    The best book I ever bought was Eat this not That. I just didn't realise how bad and fattening certain things were for you until I read this.

    I made a bunch of small changes that I didn't really notice a few years ago and have been 15lbs lighter ever since. I still fluctuate around 10-15lbs between summer and winter, but it's now in the 135 - 150 range instead of 150-165 range.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pedalfaraway View Post
    That's true in a mathematical sense, but what is at question is how you are arriving at total caloric deficit.

    On another note here is a very interesting article the diet that has produced a large percentage of the best endurance athletes in the world. Its neither vegan or paleo.

    Eating practices of the best endurance athletes in the world | Page 3 | Active.com
    Funny, thats almost exactly what I eat. Minus the heavy cream... I drink skim milk for protein.

    I dont eat meat as I can sleep better and train harder without it in my belly.

    Ever since I went from a traditional american diet to this, my workouts and fitness have improved drastically.
    Raised in a Chicken-Coop by Chickens

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheepo5669 View Post
    Funny, thats almost exactly what I eat. Minus the heavy cream... I drink skim milk for protein.

    I dont eat meat as I can sleep better and train harder without it in my belly.

    Ever since I went from a traditional american diet to this, my workouts and fitness have improved drastically.
    Do you have data to support that your workouts and fitness have improved drastically based on the diet change alone?

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by BruceBrown View Post
    Do you have data to support that your workouts and fitness have improved drastically based on the diet change alone?
    No, wish I could prove it. Ill have another round of solid power data in the near future I can share... It wont be the best proof but its as good as I got... Ill put my money that my watts have increased despite the fact that I have lost some weight.

    Hombre to hombre, proof aside, a high carb diet has changed my training and racing for the better. I just seem to have energy for days.

    If you are an endurance athlete in training I would recommend trying it. You dont like it, go back. Every body is different. It seems to work great for the Kenyans...
    Raised in a Chicken-Coop by Chickens

  53. #53
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    My impression is that if you get into the routine of eating similar meals everyday, matching food intake with your energy needs, then you're more likely to keep your bodyweight stable. Once you find a lifestyle and food routine that works for you then stick with it long term, rather than jumping from one diet to another. It's far easier to stay at a constant bodyweight if you don't gain excess weight in the first place, avoiding any yo-yo dieting and weight fluctuations as that increases your likelihood and ease of putting excess weight back on again in future. That's easier said than done of course, although I do eat a lot of yogurt.

    This is quite an interesting article on long term weight gain and the foods you eat.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Changes in Diet and Lifestyle and Long Term Weight Gain in Women and Men

    by Dariush Mozaffarian, M.D., Dr.P.H., Tao Hao, M.P.H., Eric B. Rimm, Sc.D., Walter C. Willett, M.D., Dr.P.H., and Frank B. Hu, M.D., Ph.D.

    N Engl J Med 2011;364:2392-404.Copyright © 2011 Massachusetts Medical Society





    "We found that multiple lifestyle changes were independently associated with long-term weight gain, including changes in the consumption of specific foods and beverages, physical activity, alcohol use, television watching, and smoking habits. Average long-term weight gain in non obese populations is gradual — in the cohorts we studied, about 0.8 lb per year.
    ...
    Eating more or less of any one food or beverage may change the total amount of energy consumed, but the magnitude of associated weight gain varied for specific foods and beverages. Differences in weight gain seen for specific foods and beverages could relate to varying portion sizes, patterns of eating, effects on satiety, or displacement of other foods or beverages. Strong positive associations with weight change were seen for starches, refined grains, and processed foods. These findings are consistent with those suggested by the results in limited short-term trials: consumption of starches and refined grains may be less satiating, increasing subsequent hunger signals and total caloric intake, as compared with equivalent numbers of calories obtained from less processed, higher-fiber foods that also contain healthy fats and protein. Consumption of processed foods that are higher in starches, refined grains, fats, and sugars can increase weight gain.

    Some foods — vegetables, nuts, fruits, and whole grains — were associated with less weight gain when consumption was actually increased. Obviously, such foods provide calories and cannot violate thermodynamic laws. Their inverse associations with weight gain suggest that the increase in their consumption reduced the intake of other foods to a greater (caloric) extent, decreasing the overall amount of energy consumed. Higher fiber content and slower digestion of these foods would augment satiety, and their increased consumption would also displace other, more highly processed foods in the diet, providing plausible biologic mechanisms whereby persons who eat more fruits, nuts, vegetables, and whole grains would gain less weight over time.

    Yogurt consumption was also associated with less weight gain in all three cohorts. Potential mechanisms for these findings are unclear; intriguing evidence suggests that changes in colonic bacteria might influence weight gain. It is also possible that there is an unmeasured confounding factor that tracks with yogurt consumption (e.g., people who change their yogurt consumption may have other weight-influencing behaviors that were not measured by our instruments).
    ...

    In addition, our findings were broadly consistent with cross-sectional national trends with respect to diet and obesity: between 1971 and 2004, the average dietary intake of calories in the United States increased by 22% among women and by 10% among men, primarily owing to the increased consumption of refined carbohydrates, starches, and sugarsweetened beverages. Our findings were also consistent among the three cohorts and in analyses stratified according to smoking status, age, and baseline body-mass index, and it seems plausible that the biologic effects of many lifestyle factors would be qualitatively similar in other populations.
    A habitual energy imbalance of about 50 to 100 kcal per day may be sufficient to cause the gradual weight gain seen in most persons. This means that unintended weight gain occurs easily but also that modest, sustained changes in lifestyle could mitigate or reverse such an energy imbalance. Our findings suggest that both individual and population-based strategies to help people consume fewer calories may be most effective when particular foods and beverages are targeted for decreased (or increased) consumption. Aggregate dietary changes accounted for substantial differences in weight gain, with additional contributions from changes in physical activity and television watching, thus highlighting specific lifestyle changes that might be prioritized in obesity prevention strategies."

    http://cgvh.harvard.edu/pdfs/2-Frank...dedreading.pdf

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  54. #54
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    A couple years back I was struggling with "eat healty (you know what that means)" I knew the pizza I was eating was loaded with fat and salt. I found myself justifying it by adding veggies. Ultimately, I knew what unhealthy meant. But, I didn't know how to assemble a healthy diet. It is especially compounded when living in a house where everyone staunchly believes in standard american diet and prides on enjoying crap.
    Oh sh!+ just force upgraded to cat1. Now what?
    Best thing about an ultra marathon? I just get to ride my bike for X hours!

  55. #55
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    Has anybody read 'Racing Weight'? Great book, I won't go into all the details but the cliff notes are as follows:
    1) Based on Elite/Olympic level athletes (shows many daily eating plans they use)
    2) Based on eating well balanced meals
    3) Timing IS important
    4) Carbs are very important
    5) Eat 'enough' but don't over indulge
    6) Eat when you are truly hungry, not before and not after

    It was an interesting read for me, I have heard varying reviews. The biggest take away for me was that the human body is very adaptable and will strive to find equilibrium if you treat it right and follow your instincts, aka eat when you are truly hungry.

    Also, some people will have better performance at a higher weight than they would consider 'optimal', it's about finding your bodies ideal weight for your sport not just losing as much as possible.

  56. #56
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    Hey bro
    I am a very active person that plays tennis and bikes 3 times a week.

    I have this review site about a paleo recipe book that i have been following and it worked wonders for me.

    i am 5,10 and my weight was around 195. I not only lost weight to 179 but i also feel really good mentally. It was the best investment i made.

    Just wanted to share my experience and hopefully help you guys too .

    Heres a link to that review site: paleo diets for athletes

    thanks.
    Last edited by rockcrusher; 05-03-2013 at 05:56 PM.

  57. #57
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    Stop drinking alcohol as much as possible - or cut it completely.

    Cut back (or eliminate) shit like bread, pizza, pasta, cheese, soda, french fries, fried food, and sweets like cake, pie, cookies etc...If you eat salad (and you should) use fat free dressing or none at all.

    What are you eating now?

    I track my weight daily and log it in a spreadsheet. So far 3 big spikes this year were all on days I drank (quite a bit and stuffed my face) - AFC championship game, Super Bowl (Ravens fan) and my birthday. It usually took about 3 to 5 days to get back to my weight the day prior to these days.

    I also try to run a few miles on the days I'm not riding and run about 40 to 60 miles each month during winter.

    I'm 6' and went from 192# last winter down to 155# currently.

  58. #58
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    I believe food is king and exercise queen when it comes to weight loss. It is hard to out work bad eating habits. I see this P90X, Insanity, etc. and am amazed that they all sounds like their plain is the key to weight loss. Heck, you could walk 3 miles a day and cut calories and loss weight. Heck, you could just cut your calories and lose weight without exercise. Oh, part of the P90X weight loss 'secrets' is the strict diet they put you on...want to lose weight cut back on the eating.

    If you want to look good for the ladies start lifting weights! Body builders look a heck of a lot better than us skinny bikers

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by BruceBrown View Post
    Do you have data to support that your workouts and fitness have improved drastically based on the diet change alone?
    ***Update***
    November, fall-season local hill climb time trial. During my CX season peak. Pre-giving up meat. Body weight 165lbs, power output for the 5 min, 2 second time trial was 459 watts avg.

    April, spring-season local hill climb time trail. 5 months meat free. Base and some hard rides. Zero intervals or hill repeats. Body weight, 158lbs, power output for 5min timetrial was 463 watts avg.

    Thats going from 6.13 w/kg for 5 mins to 6.46 w/kg for 5 mins.

    Proof is in the pudding. Rice pudding.
    Raised in a Chicken-Coop by Chickens

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheepo5669 View Post
    ***Update***
    November, fall-season local hill climb time trial. During my CX season peak. Pre-giving up meat. Body weight 165lbs, power output for the 5 min, 2 second time trial was 459 watts avg.

    April, spring-season local hill climb time trail. 5 months meat free. Base and some hard rides. Zero intervals or hill repeats. Body weight, 158lbs, power output for 5min timetrial was 463 watts avg.

    Thats going from 6.13 w/kg for 5 mins to 6.46 w/kg for 5 mins.

    Proof is in the pudding. Rice pudding.
    What power meter are you using? 4 w is well within the range of error for most units.

    Nice job though.

  61. #61
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    Just a point on Paleo and meat as an evolutionarily adapted food: The idea that our ancestors ate a diet high in animal protein mainly comes from fairly primitive archaeological conclusions - animal bones in the refuse areas around ancient human settlements, for example.

    Much more detailed archaeological techniques have evolved in the last few years, including detailed analysis of plaque on neolithic dental remains and those suggest that our ancestors diets were very heavily plant based and that they ate relatively little meat.

  62. #62
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    Re: Problems with my weight.

    Quote Originally Posted by jimification View Post
    Just a point on Paleo and meat as an evolutionarily adapted food: The idea that our ancestors ate a diet high in animal protein mainly comes from fairly primitive archaeological conclusions - animal bones in the refuse areas around ancient human settlements, for example.

    Much more detailed archaeological techniques have evolved in the last few years, including detailed analysis of plaque on neolithic dental remains and those suggest that our ancestors diets were very heavily plant based and that they ate relatively little meat.
    Paleo isn't really higher in meat than food pyramid recommendations. The big difference between Paleo and mainstream food pyramid type recommendations is a lot more fruits and vegetables instead of the grains and dairy. I don't know why people always assume Paleo is all about the meat when really it's more about the fresh fruits and veggies, which matches up with the research you quoted above.

    Sent from my HTC Vision using Tapatalk 2
    Wow, GJ, Fruita, and Moab trails are riding great. This is a killer spring for riding!

  63. #63
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    Problems with my weight.

    There was an interesting program on Channel 4 last night called "Fat Family Tree". It's available to watch on demand at the link below (if you're not in the UK then it may be region locked so you'll need to watch it via a proxy server).

    http://www.channel4.com/programmes/f...ee/4od#3524929

    Edit:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcY42VR14UA

    In the program they took a family that has historically been overweight, and by testing their DNA tried to identify inherited genes that would make it more likely for them to gain weight or struggle to lose weight again. They found genes that made them prefer fatty foods, made them less likely to feel full and also more prone to diabetes.

    From there they performed some experiments to show how the family could address these issues through diet, lifestyle and exercise changes. How different food groups could affect hunger etc.

    As part of that they had a section where they had two groups eating breakfast. One group had a glass of orange juice totalling 120 calories first whilst another group had a bowl of fruit totalling 120 calories. Both groups were then free to eat as much breakfast (toast, jam, breakfast cereal etc) as they liked afterwards. The group who'd taken in the liquid calories first didn't feel full and ended up eating around 350 calories each more than the group who'd had fruit first.

    The point being that your body tends to skip identifying liquid calories as food and it has minimal impact on how full you feel.
    Last edited by WR304; 05-24-2013 at 04:10 PM.

  64. #64
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    That's really interesting and makes a lot of sense.

    I often wonder to myself if there are fat families because of genetics or if it is similar diets/lifestyles. I know it is a grey area as each has a role and a percentage, but I wonder if a study could put a number to certain circumstances.

    I am just tired of people using the excuse "I am heavy because it is genetics and my whole family is heavy" which may be true but it also may be true that you are heavy because you eat too much and don't exercise.

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by tooclosetosee View Post
    That's really interesting and makes a lot of sense.

    I often wonder to myself if there are fat families because of genetics or if it is similar diets/lifestyles. I know it is a grey area as each has a role and a percentage, but I wonder if a study could put a number to certain circumstances.

    I am just tired of people using the excuse "I am heavy because it is genetics and my whole family is heavy" which may be true but it also may be true that you are heavy because you eat too much and don't exercise.
    What you eat has a much bigger effect on your weight than genetics, and families tend to eat a lot of the same things. It's a pain preparing two different meals and such. So I think you're right. Where genetics probably has the biggest effect is just in people's ability to self-regulate and make good choices rather than any sort of metabolic effect (excluding some sort of pancreatic or thyroid disorders.) Those are things that you can change. Usually it involves redefining your sense of normal. What a "normal" portion size is, or what your normal choice ends up being (salad with grilled chicken or the burger and fries), you have to redefine your sense of what's normal and it won't seem like you're making a sacrifice.
    Wow, GJ, Fruita, and Moab trails are riding great. This is a killer spring for riding!

  66. #66
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    Problems with my weight.

    Although they did some genetic testing of the family the way they lost weight during the program was quite conventional - eat less and exercise more. I guess it was supposed to show that anyone can do it.

    Along with the orange juice experiment the other notable sections were where they had the people eat a fatty breakfast, and then took blood samples to see how much fat was in their bloodstream soon afterwards. The next day they had the same people go for a walk first, and then eat the same fatty breakfast. After walking before breakfast their bodies were metabolising fat better and there was less fat in their bloodstream when it was tested again, despite eating the same meal both days.

    They also had a part where people were divided into two groups, one group had a breakfast of processed food (cereal, white bread etc) and the other group had a meal of wholegrains before helping out working at a farm. The group who'd had the processed food felt hungrier quite a bit sooner than the ones who'd had the wholegrain breakfast.

    Channel 4 in the UK are masters of the diet show. They're mostly about entertainment but they do have some worthwhile bits too. "Secret Eaters" is a show where people who claim to be unable to lose weight despite eating healthily are watched by cameras and followed by private detectives (really! ) to see if what they say they eat is the same as what they actually eat. In one of the episodes they had someone who went to the gym regularly and liked to go mountain biking on the weekends. Despite this exercise he was putting on weight.

    http://www.channel4.com/programmes/s...rs/4od#3515703

    It turned out that he was stopping with his friends at a cafe mid ride and having a big meal each ride, which was more calories than he was burning during the ride itself. He was doing the same after his gym sessions too: having a big blow out on getting home, more than cancelling out any calories burnt during the gym session.

    In another program they had someone who also went to the gym a lot. The problem was that she'd heard about the "golden hour" post exercise where your body can replenish its glycogen stores quickly. She thought that it meant she could eat anything and as much as she liked immediately post exercise. She was having massive binges afterwards, contributing to the general pattern of overeating.

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    Read, modify diet and loose weight.

    Our philosophy, program and community | Whole9 | Let us change your life.

    This is a stricter version of a Paleo diet. I did this to enhance my workout performance and shed what little fat I had at the same time. A lot of people talk trash about Paleo diets but they are probably cheating and not planning their meals. End result was increased workout performance, greater energy lvls, healthier lifestyle, lower body fat % and increased development of more lean muscle. I did this to the T for two months and now follow it at a 90% level. I currently implement some grains such as brown rice. There is a ton of info on the Internet and you don't need to buy a book. PM me with any questions.

    Things I highly recommend keeping around.
    - coconut butter to cook with and add good fat to anything. In a spoonful in my coffee each morning. It's even good by itself but will not change the taste of the food you cook it with.
    - grape seed oil for cooking at high heat
    - raw nuts (bulk section of grocery store)
    - avocado
    - eggs, natural bacon and avocado makes for a badass breakfast
    - fresh veggies but no beans out of a the pod.
    - pack snacks for mid morning and mid afternoon.
    - chipotle fast food is your saving grace if you get in a pinch. Salad bowl, meat, veggies and avocado. Done

    Read ingredients and watch out for any kind of preservative. Eating out is rough at first but you will learn what to order and you can always go ala cart.

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by zrm View Post
    The other part is controlling my cravings. Part of that is pure calories in and out, once I start getting close to 10% body fat my cravings start talking really loud . Even worse, I have a sweet tooth and cutting out all things sugary helps a lot although it takes a fair amount of will power.
    I know the feeling I imagine my diet is 50% sweets sometimes. cookies why you so good

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    Last Post: 10-19-2011, 04:11 PM
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