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Thread: PowerTap Disc

  1. #1
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    PowerTap Disc

    I got one!

    Here are pictures of it. I can't ride it today but I'll be on it tomorrow.

  2. #2
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    Sweet!

    No excuses for missing training logging now!

  3. #3
    LMN
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    Let me know how the water sealing works.


    Power taps and wet haven't exactly worked well in the past. They claim to have fixed it but that remains to be seen.

  4. #4
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    so these are now available for purchase? awesome. a few weeks ago they said they were still on the production line.....

  5. #5
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    Saris can't build them fast enough. I work at American Classic, and we are building on them!! If you want a Disc Brake 2.4 Powertap we can build them 26" or 29", 32 hole only. <br> LMN- the computer seal is VERY tight on these. We double check every PT we ship to ensure the seal is good. No problems so far for us!

    <a href="http://s106.photobucket.com/albums/m266/threadoflifephoto/?action=view&current=IMG00159.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m266/threadoflifephoto/IMG00159.jpg" border="0" alt="AC built Powertap Disc"></a>
    Last edited by Cracked Headtube; 04-28-2008 at 09:45 AM.

  6. #6
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    sweet.

  7. #7
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    Ordered mine up today....gonna be laced up to a stans ZTR 355 29" rim.

    Anyone interested in an ergomo pro??? for sale

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprocketjockey9
    Ordered mine up today....gonna be laced up to a stans ZTR 355 29" rim.
    Jason, where did you order from?

  9. #9
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    I ordered mine from my local shop: Geneva Bicycle Center, my guess is they called Saris and are able to get one? The shop is going to build it up to the hoop for me

  10. #10
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    funny, i too just order one and am lacing it to a stans 355 29er wheel....got mine from Rich at prowheelbuilder.com. they said a few weeks delivery....fingers crossed on that.

  11. #11
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    Saris has the hubs, just no rotors to go with them...I guess they've been selling extra rotors.

  12. #12
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    How much $dinero$ ?

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    i assume any standard rotor will work, yes?? i paid $1500 for mine.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by William D
    i assume any standard rotor will work, yes?? i paid $1500 for mine.
    No, I believe they have a custom bolt pattern.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by William D
    i assume any standard rotor will work, yes?? i paid $1500 for mine.
    Custom rotor. 8 bolt pattern.

    <a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/LyndaWallenfels/PowerMeterPics/photo#5192825346108037090"><img src="http://lh6.ggpht.com/LyndaWallenfels/SBCfI7dqF-I/AAAAAAAADYs/Cjk1ughLv3w/s400/DSC01746.jpg" /></a>

  16. #16
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    Just Received Mine!

    Thanks to American Classic and Red Rock Bicycle Co.
    IMG00107re.jpg
    Enjoy The Ride!

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by bn_acyclist
    Thanks to American Classic and Red Rock Bicycle Co.
    IMG00107re.jpg
    awwww she's luvly. We'll have to take them out for a ride together

    Was it plug and play for you or did you have to mess around with a few settings? How do you feel the power readings compare to your other PT's?

  18. #18
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    Plug and Play.

    Plug and play, I set the time and aranged the display how I like it before I rode. But it worked right out of the box.
    I only have one ride on her but the data I downloaded was perfect. It seemed to have way less if any holes in the data.
    Oh, BTW thanks for the consult. (LWcoaching) A few things that I learned in that informative meeting have led to the best year yet (so far, knock on wood). Thanks.
    Enjoy The Ride!

  19. #19
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    BN_A could you get me a Disc side photo of your wheel in the bike? A Similar angle to the one above, just from the other side.
    jeremy@amclassic.com

    thanks

  20. #20
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    Could someone please tell me what the actual weight of the hub with and without rotor is?

  21. #21
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    you can't get the hub w/o the rotor, as far as I know.

  22. #22
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    My PT Disk, with a 347g Stans 355 rim, 2.0/1.8 and 2.0/1.5 spokes 3x, Aluminum nips, Yellow tape, weighs 1030 without rotor. Add 160g for custom rotor, and also add for rotor bolts (x8).

    I did not get a chance to weigh the hub, but it looks like it should be very close to a standard PT SL (without rotor of course). You also need to add for the different axle, which I believe is steel.

  23. #23
    No. Just No.
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    Quote Originally Posted by perryr
    My PT Disk, with a 347g Stans 355 rim, 2.0/1.8 and 2.0/1.5 spokes 3x, Aluminum nips, Yellow tape, weighs 1030 without rotor. Add 160g for custom rotor, and also add for rotor bolts (x8).

    I did not get a chance to weigh the hub, but it looks like it should be very close to a standard PT SL (without rotor of course). You also need to add for the different axle, which I believe is steel.
    That seems dead on based on available info. Alum nips are ~10g per wheel, and the mix of spokes you have is ~165g per wheel. A few grams for the yellow tape, some subtraction, and I get 504g for hub only without rotor or rotor mounting hardware.

    Compared to Saris' web info quoting 680g less 160g for rotor as per Perry's post above, and maybe 15g for rotor bolts that gives 505g which is almost a dead match. Saris says the regular (i.e. road) PT 2.4 SL is 416g, so that means about 89g extra for all the extra material on the hub for the rotor mount, and any other changes they needed to maix it suitable for disc/MTB use.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Circlip
    Saris says the regular (i.e. road) PT 2.4 SL is 416g, so that means about 89g extra for all the extra material on the hub for the rotor mount, and any other changes they needed to maix it suitable for disc/MTB use.
    I bet most of that 89g is in the steel axle.

  25. #25
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    Built and ready to go for testing this afternoon






  26. #26
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    Just about ready

    My special savings account is about there! Did you build yours up yourself Jason? While I love to build, I rarely have the time. I'm considering, PT Disc / Olympics / DT 1.8-1.5 w/ alloy nipples. That way, if I want to race it, I can do so.

  27. #27
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    Nice. I ordered a wheel two weeks ago but the hub is backordered for a week due to the lack of rotors.

  28. #28
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    I wish I could build it up. If I did it probably would come out as a triangle or something....I can do everything 'cept that part.

    "stimulus check", just like my taxes.......deposited right at the bike shop

    I built mine up a little beefier with the ZTR and brass nipples as it will see some tough miles. I'll still race it, in fact racing it tonight. just not as light as the bonty x lites

  29. #29
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    mtb training w/power

    Jason, LMN, Lynda......whoever,
    How does training w/ power differ in the mtns. vs. the road, and what would you suggest doing when first getting started with it? My hub is here just waiting for my hoop to show up and then it's on. Also, any book recommends or site visits to help learn how to train better w/it?
    Thanks,
    Ryon
    If you do something often enough it tends to define you.

  30. #30
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    A great book is Racing and training with a Power meter by Allen and Coggan is a great place to start.

    Also http://www.cyclingpeakssoftware.com/power411/ is the lowdown on power training from the same people (the book expands upon these theories).

    the first thing I would do with it is to determine your power training zones, on the power411 page is a brief description on how to set up your zones.

    The big difference between road and off road power, in my belief comes down to quandrant analysis. While power is power across the board, how you produce it is a little bit different off-road. Unfortunately, a review of this is only available after a workout and not during. Road tends to be high force/high rpm, while mountain biking is high force/low rpm.

    With the power meter you can also get "data" proof of your actual weaknesses and target it exactly. Kinda like using a laser sight to hone in on your target, vs blind firing.

  31. #31
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    So, last year I tested with my road power tap and got some numbers for a 20 min. test and they were pretty accurate for a twenty min. based on the 4 hill climbs I did. They were plus or minus 10 watts. Are these numbers a good place to start? also, is average power a good indicator of your ride or go by tss. I have limited knowledge here so I am throwing out vocab. stuff w/limted info. sorry
    Thanks,
    Ryon
    If you do something often enough it tends to define you.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by butryon
    So, last year I tested with my road power tap and got some numbers for a 20 min. test and they were pretty accurate for a twenty min. based on the 4 hill climbs I did. They were plus or minus 10 watts. Are these numbers a good place to start? also, is average power a good indicator of your ride or go by tss. I have limited knowledge here so I am throwing out vocab. stuff w/limted info. sorry
    Thanks,
    Ryon
    You can use those numbers as a start, but I'd still recommend trying to get a real test in. Understandably, it's probably pretty hard to do off-road 20 minute test or so, but just give it your best effort on a section of trail or a road where you can recreate it. I think TSS gives more value to a workout than an avg power number. If you're using wko+ you can use the Performance Chart Manager and track TSS and see how it influences your form and fitness.

    If you're really interested in the fine detail of power there is a google group on "wattage".

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    Thanks Jason,
    As I get going more I will drive you crazy w/ some ?'s following a true dirt 20 min. Should I shoot for a 30 min.?
    Thanks again,Ryon
    If you do something often enough it tends to define you.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by butryon
    So, last year I tested with my road power tap and got some numbers for a 20 min. test and they were pretty accurate for a twenty min. based on the 4 hill climbs I did. They were plus or minus 10 watts. Are these numbers a good place to start? also, is average power a good indicator of your ride or go by tss. I have limited knowledge here so I am throwing out vocab. stuff w/limted info. sorry
    Thanks,
    Ryon
    I always have my athletes test on the pavement even if they are on their mtb - fewer variables to interrupt the test.

    Do a new test to be sure you are setting your power training levels on up-to-date info.

    The more technical a course is the lower your mtb FT will be. As you ride on all different types of courses the exact FT to use to calculate TSS for an mtb ride on a daily basis is a bit of guesswork. In general I use an FT 5% lower for mtb rides than the road FT for TSS purposes.

    Tracking daily TSS in the Performance Manager Chart is the bomb for training planning and nailing peaks.

  35. #35
    zrm
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    I don't need to spend that kind of moola to get confirmation of what I already know.

    I'm weak.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by butryon
    Thanks Jason,
    As I get going more I will drive you crazy w/ some ?'s following a true dirt 20 min. Should I shoot for a 30 min.?
    Thanks again,Ryon
    No problem, Once you do your 20 min test (in agreement with Lynda as far as testing on the road vs. dirt) there's no real need to move onto a 30 minute test. 20 minute is the norm and you can just extrapolate your FTP from there. 20 min ~ 95% or so of your FTP

  37. #37
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    Lynda and Jason,
    So, based on my 20 min. test and three Hillclimbs last year I came up w/ a 20 min. of 333 watts, averageing the 4 rides. that will put my ftp at 316(333*.95) correct? and then expect 5% less than that on dirt = 300.2 watts.
    Based on these numbers where will most of my training for mtb racing be at? I generally only ride the road a few times a month, hence, why I sold my road power tap.
    Thanks again,
    Ryon
    If you do something often enough it tends to define you.

  38. #38
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    Ryon,
    Well it really determines how your power curve lies. That will help determine your weakness. Secondly, it depends on your goals. Are you racing xc, short track or endurance??

    The numbers you have given sound like a good place to start with your FTP

  39. #39
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    Jason,
    I am racing mostly xc for the first half of the season and then ramping the volume up a bunch for the Trans Rockies in Aug. so the end of June and all of July are longer races. I notice that the longer 2.5 to 3.5 hr races I have my best performances. Not sure what that means but power should help me add a bit more structure to what i do.
    Thanks,
    Ryon
    If you do something often enough it tends to define you.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by butryon
    Jason,
    I am racing mostly xc for the first half of the season and then ramping the volume up a bunch for the Trans Rockies in Aug. so the end of June and all of July are longer races. I notice that the longer 2.5 to 3.5 hr races I have my best performances. Not sure what that means but power should help me add a bit more structure to what i do.
    Thanks,
    Ryon
    Well cool. I'll see you at TR. I'm signed up to race open mixed again.

    For TR lots of long tempo rides in power L3 is the ticket. Build up gradually to 120 mins non-stop on the gas in power L3. Do that a couple of times a week 3-5 weeks out from the start of TR.

    LW

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    Lynda,
    what is L3 compareable to in terms of hr(max 186), and what wattage based on a 330w, 20 min. test?
    Also, I know some of you have had a power tap on the mtb for a while, what do I need to be careful with? What shouldn't I do and how durable are they?
    Thanks,
    Ryon
    If you do something often enough it tends to define you.

  42. #42
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    Ok... I'll bite.
    Why the different rotor bolt pattern?

    Seems like an annoyance more than anything.
    www.mtbiker.ca

    My Rides:
    FSR XC -R7 Platinum - SRAM X7 (26.5lbs)
    Cervelo SLC - SRAM Rival - Reynolds DV46T (16.25 lbs)

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by bbgobie
    Ok... I'll bite.
    Why the different rotor bolt pattern?
    Check out lynda's picture



    The hub is much bigger. Requires a custom rotor.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyndaW
    Well cool. I'll see you at TR. I'm signed up to race open mixed again.

    For TR lots of long tempo rides in power L3 is the ticket. Build up gradually to 120 mins non-stop on the gas in power L3. Do that a couple of times a week 3-5 weeks out from the start of TR.

    LW
    Are you and Dave taking a laptop there to download between stages? I want one too but I'd end up erasing each file without knowing my CP's and TSS.
    If you believe that I've got some magic beans to sell ya.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by butryon
    Lynda,
    what is L3 compareable to in terms of hr(max 186), and what wattage based on a 330w, 20 min. test?
    Also, I know some of you have had a power tap on the mtb for a while, what do I need to be careful with? What shouldn't I do and how durable are they?
    Thanks,
    Ryon
    Your L3 power would be 235 - 280 watts. The heart rate for this power level depends, among things on how long you have been there, how hot it is, how fresh/fatigued you are, how much coffee you have drank, how many stages into a 7 day stage race you are...

    The wireless PT's - you have to be careful on keeping communication between the hub and CPU.

    Cheers,

    Lynda

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by jakomonster
    Are you and Dave taking a laptop there to download between stages? I want one too but I'd end up erasing each file without knowing my CP's and TSS.
    Oh I'd love to but we are coming with no support and sleeping in a tent so don't feel like putting a laptop in the gear bag thrown in a truck daily. Do you guys have a support team? If someone can take care of a laptop between stages it would be doable. We can all share and snicker over power files at dinner time...

  47. #47
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    Those of you that have gotten a few rides on your new hubs:

    Any issues? Does the signal drop out much? Would you do it again?

    Thanks,
    OnTheFence!

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMK331
    Those of you that have gotten a few rides on your new hubs:

    Any issues? Does the signal drop out much? Would you do it again?

    Thanks,
    OnTheFence!
    I've put some time so far in on mine, including a nice 8 hour ride this past saturday. I've haven't had any power or data drops. If I'm off the bike for a few minutes, I might sometimes have to do a find to bring the power back, however with hr anytime I move out of range I'm forced to do a find. Kind of annoying and scary at the same time (find is really close to clear all).

    After breaking in the rotor in it's worked great including on some super long forearm burning, brake fade heat inducing descents.

    I ran an ergomo pro all of last season and still have it set-up, but I've yet to run the power-tap on the same bike and do a side by side comparison. So far the numbers seem pretty accurate

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMK331
    Those of you that have gotten a few rides on your new hubs:

    Any issues? Does the signal drop out much? Would you do it again?

    Thanks,
    OnTheFence!
    I've got a few hundred miles on mine, which I built into a heavier training rim. Honestly, I'm super tough on gear. It's been ridden through rain, mud, slop, high humidity, creeks, and most recently submerged completely into a hub deep mud pit. It's worked flawlessly. I agree that the "find" is a little too close to the "clear" function for my comfort, but otherwise it's an awesome tool.

    Truthfully, I'm new to the whole "power training" phenomenon. Being a total gear junkie, I bought it mostly because it's new, cool, and shiny. However, I raced my first xc race of the season on it and got some really good info. I have no idea what most of it means, but "coach" says it was valuable. I'd totally spend the cash again.
    required disclaimer: I'm a bike shop girl.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMK331
    Those of you that have gotten a few rides on your new hubs:

    Any issues? Does the signal drop out much? Would you do it again?

    Thanks,
    OnTheFence!
    I have been using a PT wireless rim brake wheel on my MTB for about 8months. Did numerous races, mud, rain, sub freezing, about 5000 miles.

    Down around 10deg the display fades, but continues to record.. just stay on top of your batteries in the cold. I rode in heavy rain, freezing rain, snow, etc.. no issues.

    After a mud race I had to submerge my bike to get the mud off before
    putting it in my car. The next day it was dropping out, so I opened up the battery compartment and dumped the water out, let it dry and its been fine ever since. Definitely a solid unit!

    The Disk version is basically the same with the shell modified to accomidate the disk. Killer hub!

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