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  1. #1
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    Power Data for Pro/Elite Cat1 Endurance Males

    Anyone have data on these guys road preferably but mountain would be ok too.

    Are they all doing 4 watts/kg aerobically for multi hour rides?

    I saw Jeremiah Bishops data from the mohican 100 - 2009 and he was at like 3.3 watts/kg IIRC but I'm looking for something more than 1 file.

    just re-found his data from saris.com:
    Ride stats:

    Distance 102.35 miles
    Duration 7:06:46
    Work 5759 kJ
    Avg Speed 14.38 mph
    Avg Cadence 65 rpm
    Avg HR 150 bpm
    Avg Power 225 watts (3.28 watts/kg)
    Max Power 1502 watts (21.93 watts/kg)

    Peak power:

    Power Watts/kg
    5 sec 736 10.74
    30 sec 552 8.05
    1 min 517 7.55
    5 min 359 5.24
    10 min 335 4.9
    30 min 293 4.28
    60 min 278 4.06
    120 min 262 3.82
    Last edited by fsrftc; 06-22-2010 at 01:52 PM.

  2. #2
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    There are a few on the SRM web page including this data for Greg Henderson from the 2009 Paris - Roubaix

    eg: http://www.srm.de/index.php?option=c...id=163&lang=us

    "The overall average for the race: 286 watts (3.9 W/kg), cadence 76 rpm, 38.7 km/h.

    His maximum power values for this race are:

    1 second 1,226 Watt (16.6 W/kg)
    1 minute: 585 Watts (7.9 W/kg)
    4 minutes: 446 Watts (6.0 W/kg)
    20 minutes: 371 Watts (5.0 W/kg)

    For the first two hours of the race, he rode with an average of 330 Watts (4.5 W/kg) and an average speed of 45 km/h, which must have been superhard. His smoothed power curve went down constantly, and in the last hour the average power was just 240 Watts (3.2 W/kg). But after nearly 6.5 hours of racing - most of the time in a breakaway - and about 6.400 calories burned, this is not surprising."
    SRM.de

  3. #3
    LMN
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    MTB race power files tend to be pretty low.

    Last year at Test of Metal (a 3hr MTB race) Catharine averaged 4.1 watts/kg, significantly below threshold.

    I would say all the top guys and girls can fairly easily average in excess of 4/watts per kg for extended periods of time on the road.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by fsrftc

    I saw Jeremiah Bishops data from the mohican 100 - 2009 and he was at like 3.3 watts/kg IIRC but I'm looking for something more than 1 file.

    just re-found his data from saris.com:
    Ride stats:

    Distance 102.35 miles
    Duration 7:06:46
    Work 5759 kJ
    Avg Speed 14.38 mph
    Avg Cadence 65 rpm
    Avg HR 150 bpm
    Avg Power 225 watts (3.28 watts/kg)
    Max Power 1502 watts (21.93 watts/kg)

    Peak power:

    Power Watts/kg
    5 sec 736 10.74
    30 sec 552 8.05
    1 min 517 7.55
    5 min 359 5.24
    10 min 335 4.9
    30 min 293 4.28
    60 min 278 4.06
    120 min 262 3.82
    Wow...that is actually surprisingly low, IMO.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMN
    MTB race power files tend to be pretty low.

    Last year at Test of Metal (a 3hr MTB race) Catharine averaged 4.1 watts/kg, significantly below threshold.

    I would say all the top guys and girls can fairly easily average in excess of 4/watts per kg for extended periods of time on the road.
    what would you consider extended 3, 4+ hours? I would assume this is below race pace HR averages as well, correct?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by XCFred
    Wow...that is actually surprisingly low, IMO.

    from the limited data I've seen most of the top finishers for 100 milers are in the 3.2-3.4 range, but remember they've riden for 6-8 and sometimes 9 hours at this pace. Also this isn't a normalized file, my guess is after normalization it would be near 4 watts.

  7. #7
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    Just went to a male, 45ish age, Cat 1 roadie's files (multi-time amateur road race state champion--in a flat state). I have a few dozen of his files for long, flat 3-4 hr group rides over a multi-year span--most of them hard/spirited group rides on the road with pros and other cat 1s. His best 4 hour maximal average power for those rides is 3.33 watts/kg. Using normalized power it jumps to 3.52. His threshold is more like 4.3
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by fsrftc
    from the limited data I've seen most of the top finishers for 100 milers are in the 3.2-3.4 range, but remember they've riden for 6-8 and sometimes 9 hours at this pace. Also this isn't a normalized file, my guess is after normalization it would be near 4 watts.
    NP would be quite a bit higher I'd imagine. Keep in mind for avg's also if there's a lot of singletrack or even wide open fire road descents, it also means a lot of time not pedaling, so all those 0w seconds add up.

  9. #9
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    thanks for the link, 4.5 watts for 2 hours is pretty impressive. IIRC Landis regularly did 4.3+watt/kg rides for 5-6 hours in training.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by fsrftc
    Anyone have data on these guys road preferably but mountain would be ok too.

    Are they all doing 4 watts/kg aerobically for multi hour rides?

    I saw Jeremiah Bishops data from the mohican 100 - 2009 and he was at like 3.3 watts/kg IIRC but I'm looking for something more than 1 file.

    just re-found his data from saris.com:
    Ride stats:

    Distance 102.35 miles
    Duration 7:06:46
    Work 5759 kJ
    Avg Speed 14.38 mph
    Avg Cadence 65 rpm
    Avg HR 150 bpm
    Avg Power 225 watts (3.28 watts/kg)
    Max Power 1502 watts (21.93 watts/kg)

    Peak power:

    Power Watts/kg
    5 sec 736 10.74
    30 sec 552 8.05
    1 min 517 7.55
    5 min 359 5.24
    10 min 335 4.9
    30 min 293 4.28
    60 min 278 4.06
    120 min 262 3.82
    Cadence average surprised me, except when I realized that it probably includes zeros.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by millennium
    Just went to a male, 45ish age, Cat 1 roadie's files (multi-time amateur road race state champion--in a flat state). I have a few dozen of his files for long, flat 3-4 hr group rides over a multi-year span--most of them hard/spirited group rides on the road with pros and other cat 1s. His best 4 hour maximal average power for those rides is 3.33 watts/kg. Using normalized power it jumps to 3.52. His threshold is more like 4.3

    What state? In Colorado those would be Cat 2/3 at best.

  12. #12
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    Average power only tells part of the story. There may be a ton of coasting and soft pedaling. But how much time is spent at threshold or above? a 6hr ride with 2hrs at 400 and 4hrs at 175 is going to average 250.. but that would certainly be a strong performance! Normalized Power on the other hand would be 310watts, and more representative of what the athlete is capable of had the effort been steady paced.

    Normalized Power would be a much better indicator. If you want the biggest average power number possible, ride ISO power, keep it steady at high Tempo for 3-4hrs and you'll see what you can do for 3-4hrs. In a race, that same athlete would probably see average power that is 20%+ lower, but Normalized power that is probably better (if they were motivated and digging deep) than what they can do in a 3-4hr High Tempo pace.

    The repeated efforts above threshold have a huge cost that is not represented by average power. Normalized Power does a much better job.

    But for 3-4hrs I bet the best Cat 1's are over 4watt/kg NP, and if they had to (but who'd want to?), would probably be able to do the same as average power on a steady 3-4hr High Tempo pace.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by perryr
    Average power only tells part of the story. There may be a ton of coasting and soft pedaling. But how much time is spent at threshold or above? a 6hr ride with 2hrs at 400 and 4hrs at 175 is going to average 250.. but that would certainly be a strong performance! Normalized Power on the other hand would be 310watts, and more representative of what the athlete is capable of had the effort been steady paced.

    Normalized Power would be a much better indicator. If you want the biggest average power number possible, ride ISO power, keep it steady at high Tempo for 3-4hrs and you'll see what you can do for 3-4hrs. In a race, that same athlete would probably see average power that is 20%+ lower, but Normalized power that is probably better (if they were motivated and digging deep) than what they can do in a 3-4hr High Tempo pace.

    The repeated efforts above threshold have a huge cost that is not represented by average power. Normalized Power does a much better job.

    But for 3-4hrs I bet the best Cat 1's are over 4watt/kg NP, and if they had to (but who'd want to?), would probably be able to do the same as average power on a steady 3-4hr High Tempo pace.
    I don't get above threshold HR much if at all in endurance races (3.5+ hours), maybe i'm doing it wrong?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by fsrftc
    What state? In Colorado those would be Cat 2/3 at best.
    That's why I said it was a flat state (Florida)--power to weight not as important in flat areas. He's a biggish guy (at least for serious cyclists)--his actual power avg for 4 hours was 270, and this threshold about 350. Also, remember his age--45ish. Finally, this guy has been racing for many, many years--his tactics are second to none.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by fsrftc
    I don't get above threshold HR much if at all in endurance races (3.5+ hours), maybe i'm doing it wrong?
    I have some data files from long rides, and a few long races. It really depends on the course, but as far as power output, if its a climbing course, you will see huge amounts of time spent at Threshold and above.. with more than one would think at Anaerobic Capacity power levels. Granted the efforts are short, but when you tally em all up, its a ton of time at very high power outputs. With long descents, great fitness and recovery between efforts, athletes can accumulate scary amounts of time at high power levels (threshold and above).

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by perryr
    I have some data files from long rides, and a few long races. It really depends on the course, but as far as power output, if its a climbing course, you will see huge amounts of time spent at Threshold and above.. with more than one would think at Anaerobic Capacity power levels. Granted the efforts are short, but when you tally em all up, its a ton of time at very high power outputs. With long descents, great fitness and recovery between efforts, athletes can accumulate scary amounts of time at high power levels (threshold and above).
    oh i can see that but my HR never reaches LT levels, i should have specified HR not power levels.

  17. #17
    LMN
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    Looking at another file I have 250 watts for a 20 minute effort from a 60kg cyclist.

    This was a maximal off road effort. The guy who did is very fast, races world cups, and has an FTP of 330 watts.

  18. #18
    42t
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    I have a bunch of files from solo road rides in rolling/moderately hilly terrain with NP of 4 W/kg and up. 69-70kg, NP 285 W +/- for a 4-4.5 hours. That's enough to make me feel like I've done some good work, but ending the ride short of totally shelled. I'm in that good Cat 1/bad pro zone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by XCFred
    Wow...that is actually surprisingly low, IMO.

    low for a 7 hour race?

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bioteknik
    low for a 7 hour race?
    I guess probably not that low for a super long MTB race. I've similar avg power numbers for a 5-7 hour road rides, but road riding is a different beast.
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by 42t
    I have a bunch of files from solo road rides in rolling/moderately hilly terrain with NP of 4 W/kg and up. 69-70kg, NP 285 W +/- for a 4-4.5 hours. That's enough to make me feel like I've done some good work, but ending the ride short of totally shelled. I'm in that good Cat 1/bad pro zone.
    my whole point of the thread is to figure out where I'm at compared to the cat1/pro level. And apparently I'm "there" according to my data.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMN
    Looking at another file I have 250 watts for a 20 minute effort from a 60kg cyclist.

    This was a maximal off road effort. The guy who did is very fast, races world cups, and has an FTP of 330 watts.
    looks like a typo...did you mean 350 watts?

  23. #23
    LMN
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    Quote Originally Posted by fsrftc
    looks like a typo...did you mean 350 watts?

    No I meant 330 watts. 330 watts propels a 134lb rider pretty quickly.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMN
    No I meant 330 watts. 330 watts propels a 134lb rider pretty quickly.
    no for the 20 minute 250/60 is only 4.1667 which isn't "big" per se

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by fsrftc
    no for the 20 minute 250/60 is only 4.1667 which isn't "big" per se
    That was power for a MTB 20 minute effort. The same time duration on the road 350 would be his number (6 watts/kg). Which is good enough for 100th at a world cup.

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