I was reading Friel's book and tried the LTHR test on my trainer. The results are in the graph below. Based on this it would appear my LTHR is 163.
However, the second graph is a three and a half hour ride I did the previsous day. There was a really long climb, and on that climb I comfortably held a hear rate that was higher than LTHR for a longer period of time than in my test. I was above 170 for at leat 30 minutes on two separate occasions and I felt way better than I did on the trainer.
It could be fatigue, but I usually have a much higher heart rate on the flats relative to others.
1. Did I do this test correctly?
2. Is there a different LTHR for climbing than for trainers? This would make sense because relative to others, I can climb better than on the flats.
Thanks in advance.
Here's my two sense and experience.
I follow Friel's blog and have read multiple bible's
First indoors, do you have enough fans? Just making sure HR not rising due to heat. Don't bother comparing your HR to others - everyone is different. But, I did learn on trainer I can get more power with a lower HR by pushing a lower RPM. So if you are 'spinning excessively' on flats that can make your HR go up to speed you are producing
I had a 'hard' time doing a good test indoors (compared to outdoors) for years. Partly due to motivation ( I recently bought a dvd player and tv to play training videos- you can ask me about those if interested) . Another BIG part of the reason was being WEAK in the discipline of sitting in one spot turning a big gear for a 20min test (face it - it is tough). Where I ride (Chicago suburbs) we have rolling terrain, could never duplicate outdoors steady effort like on trainer.
At one point I had two different zones - one for outdoors, one for indoors. But, that was due to my own lack of motivation indoors. Now, with training dvd's I get in 'zone' for efforts.
Sorry got a little long winded - back to specific ?'s
1) did you test correctly? If you had enough fans - yes. But I do not think you went hard enough.
2)Different LTHR for climbing? No- climbing probably a strength for you. Good for MTB. Long Steady (Friel calls it muscular endurance) like test maybe a weakness - like it was for me. Joe Friel's Blog: Coaching Novice Athletes, Part 4
I would guess by looking at outdoor data - the highlighted areas (green boxes) are closer to your true LTHR.
For doing tests on trainer, I would set up tire pressure and turns on tensioner wheel consistently - and train according to speed - not pay attention to HR, In other words - due a test trying to hold 28mph on your trainer. Looking at your graph your trainer has you going 30mph (I would guess this is due to trainer resistance. Are you sure you are not running out of gear and spinning out at high rpm? If this is true rear wheel speed and you are using MTB, If so, a 42/11 combo @ 80rpm w/ 29" rear wheel calculates out to 26mph
For example Kurt Kinitec trainers come close to actual road mph. Example - my last 20m test was @ 19.8mph. Varying from about 19.6mph to 20.3mph with an average HR of 183bpm
Last edited by scottz123; 01-27-2013 at 06:11 AM.
As far as I remember, you should do the LTHR test on a flatter course depending on where you live. Just for reference, I have my lthr set for 170, and there are times when I may spend an hour plus either close to or above that number. This is especially true when I am mtbing on trails with lots of climbing. IIRC, you should be retesting every 4 weeks anyway, so just try the test again outdoors and see what the numbers are. The more you test, the more accurate of a picture you will have. BTW, I am no expert, just in the process of reading the road bible.
Thanks and follow up
I didn't use any fans - that is a good point. I did the test on my road bike and during the test I could not get into my 50 x 11, I was in 50 x 12 or 50 x 13.
It was incredibly difficult to get motivated to do this, especially watching Gran Torino. At minute ten I turned it off and went to loud music.
Thanks for the comments. I will find a place outside where I can I do this.
Thinking about this some more - On your outdoor ride there is probably a reason why you can spend so much time between 170-180bpm, especially on a 4 hr ride - probably that is in your threshold area. Any higher heart rate and you could only maintain for a few minutes. Does that make sense?
If you wanted to train muscular endurance on trainer to get more comfortable for test and increase you functional threshold power - I would start with 8-10m intervals "on your trainer" @ 28-30mph. recover 5-10m (preferably half of interval time) and repeat 3-4 times. If you can do that ok, increase time of interval or intensity to 30-32mph for example.
I use these for trainer motivation
3 Indoor Cycling Movies of Real Mountain Bike Racing | eBay
I also use Real Rides "power" and "race day" dvd's - a lot of guys like sufferfest, I do not have any yet
Testing is good, but make sure you are rested (2 days easy before?). You probably would be better off doing 4x10m of quality threshold work than one 20min test where you are done for the day.
Here is an article that is using 'power' terms - but it puts into perspective how important the 10 min plus long intervals are if you want to "get to the next level"
Hunter Allen Peaks Coaching Group: The Next Level
These links show how slow HR rate is to respond to 'power" output and reason I suggest to use trainer speed (power) to HR
Started power training but confused about not reaching VO2Max/Anaeroob heart rate
Thanks again. Inrecdibly useful. Here is the problem I am trying to solve for: I am doing the Whiskey 50. I assume it will take me four to five hours - therefore I am doing long slow four to five hour road rides to build my endurance. I want to make sure I am not riding these rides too hard and I want to make sure I am not riding these rides too slow. Without a power meter I am basing it all on hear rate. Since my LTHR is between 164 and 170, I am assuming that as long as I do my long rides between 130 and 150 I will be ok.
Again - thank you for your thoughts.