Results 1 to 49 of 49
  1. #1
    CB2
    CB2 is offline
    Jam Econo
    Reputation: CB2's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    4,214

    How is 10 speed treating you

    Every time a cog has been added there has always been a Luddite outcry.

    Cogs and chains are too thin, spacing too close, no mud clearance, etc.

    I've heard these arguments going back to 7 speed. They probably started earlier, but I didn't start riding a mtb until 1993.
    This season has been rather muddy here in the Northeast and there seems to be a plethora of drivetrain carnage; broken and bent chains as well as chain suck galore. The last multi-speed drivetrain I raced was 8 speed (9 speed had just come out and they were just giving away XTR 12/32 8 speed cassettes), and I personally had no drivetrain issues.
    Was I just lucky, or are the Luddites on to something? Is the added range without the large jumps worth things being (perceived) more finicky? Or is it smooth like butta and some people just don't know how to set it up correctly?

    (please state what conditions you have raced it in)

  2. #2
    Relentless forward motion
    Reputation: strat819's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    353
    Out here in CO we had our first true XC race (a 23 mile loop at WP). The conditions were pretty muddy in some spots... enough to cause some drive train carnage. The 10 speed (X9/XO) set up was flawless. There was no noticable drop in shifting performance. I did hear others (and I don't know what set up they were running) complaining that shifting was horrible due to the mud. (Note; I did plan for the conditions and ran a wet lube on my chain, and I know it was a smart move).

    Great race, great 10 speed performance

    I gotta say... I really think the 2x10 set up is far superior to my 3x9. I hope this sounds right... it's just more ridable... it makes more sense... it's a smart idea!

    ...and yes... smooth like butta

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    8
    I'd love to hear what everyone has to say on this to. Has anyone got any experience with 3 x 10? I cant decide between an older bike with a gorgeous colour scheme IMO with 3x9 or the newer model.

    I rode both at my LBS and I imagine any difference I thought I could feel was in my head

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation: jrastories's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    497
    I haven't been riding the new 10 spd stuff but one guy that I ride with bent his hanger pretty bad, I didn't think I was going to be able to straighten it out to work well for the 10 spd, but not a problem. Two weeks later and shifting for him is still perfect. I was quite surprised.
    Rocky Element
    My Attempt at a Blog

  5. #5
    is turning a big gear
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    505
    2x10 seems to make a lot more sense for racing than 3x10.

    I spend 99% of the time on the middle and granny of my 3x9 and would prefer the simplicity of a double front ring.

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    874
    I got 220 miles on an XT front/XTR rear before I needed any adjustments. Thinking of switching to 1x10 though to drop weight. I've been training on a singlespeed road bike and have learned I'm faster mashing in the middle ring vs. spinning in the granny up hills, and the trails around here rarely get fast enough to where I spin out the middle ring.

  7. #7
    LMN
    LMN is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    4,313
    It is still early days but 10 speed appears to have some serious durability issues (for both major manufactures). Everyone likes the range that comes with it but I question if the extra cog was necessary or wise.
    "The best pace is suicide pace, and today is a good day to die." Steve Prefontaine

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    784
    Hahaha thats why i roll on a 9sp 11-36 Ti casset from Nino and it rocks big time been on it for couple months shifts great and at 212 grams iam happy. Glad i didn't drop the coin on a whole new drivetrain just a casset. Thats just my 2cent.
    "It Is What It Is" Phil 4:13
    B-Ray Da Beast

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    371
    Quote Originally Posted by LMN View Post
    It is still early days but 10 speed appears to have some serious durability issues (for both major manufactures). Everyone likes the range that comes with it but I question if the extra cog was necessary or wise.
    In the words of one Shimano rep when asked why 10 speed?: "to sell more bike parts."

    Probably a wider range 9spd cassette and more dedicated 2x 9spd crank options would have been better for the consumer.

    Put me down as a 10 spd Luddite...

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation: WR304's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    4,796
    Quote Originally Posted by Katefromaus View Post
    I'd love to hear what everyone has to say on this to. Has anyone got any experience with 3 x 10? I cant decide between an older bike with a gorgeous colour scheme IMO with 3x9 or the newer model.

    I rode both at my LBS and I imagine any difference I thought I could feel was in my head
    Any performance difference between the two is going to be psychological. You could always buy the older model bike and upgrade the right hand shifter, rear derailleur, cassette and chain to 10 speed at a later date. You can get 11-32 and 11-34 10 speed cassettes so that the spread of gearing remains the same as on your old bike but with a tighter midrange. A 10 speed cassette doesn't automatically have to mean using an 11-36 cassette. A 10 speed chain will run on "9 speed" chainrings and the freehub width is the same for 9 and 10 speed cassettes so you can use the same wheel.

    Reliability wise my 2011 SRAM X-0 10 speed rear shifting with a Shimano Deore XT triple chainset has been fine. The gears haven't needed adjusting and are still working well. It isn't as though adding an extra rear sprocket has made me go any faster, but it hasn't created any new issues over my previous 9 speed shifting either. It has been remarkably dry here so far this year though.

    The 2011 SRAM X-0 10 speed trigger shifters small upshift buttons seem to be more positive than my older 2009 SRAM X-0 9 speed trigger shifters were. I'd always end up mis-shifting multiple gears on upshifts with the 2009 X-0 trigger shifters (same issue with 2008 X-9 trigger shifters also) but it hardly ever happens with the 2011 X-0 trigger shifters.

    For me that's been a big improvement making it well worth upgrading from the 2009 9 speed SRAM X-0 trigger shifters. I originally fitted 2011 Shimano Deore XT Dynasys 10 speed but after hand problems caused by the Shimano shift levers went back to SRAM X-0 triggers again. My hands have been fine since then as you can customise the SRAM X-0 lever position.

    My New S-work Epic impressions

    .

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    285
    3+ gear shifts crunch more than with my old x-9/pg-990(11-32) gears, but a lot of this is getting used to the xx shifter.

    With very little front shifting it is nice to go from climbing all the way to top speed on my 38 tooth main ring.

  12. #12
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    1,935
    hmmm... 10 speed has been great for me.

    just replaced the original chain.

    i would say that our season has been much harsher than typical Socal conditions.

    First race on the new bike (Kenda Cup West #1 Sagebrush)



    Last race for the chain that was just replaced (Kenda Cup West #6 Santa Ynez)



    maybe i am just magical. kind of like my experience with Crank Brothers pedals. (not all their stuff works for me, i hate the Joplin, total waste of big money.
    Try to be good.

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    360
    I have 35+ hours in all conditions on my new x0/x9 2x10 set up. I will never go back. Shifting in the rear has been far better than any of my 7,8 or 9 speed set ups. Durability? We will see. With more cogs in the rear I expect life of a cassett to increase. (10%?) Chain life? I'll know by the end of summer.

    The only shifting issue I have experienced was a branch lodging between cogs. That made the chain skip on that gear. Pulled the stick out and all was gtg.
    Tight + Twisty = Tasty
    Earn your turns!

  14. #14
    The Missing
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    379
    no issues for me so far season and a half of use and everything is still shifting like butter.

    Sram XX 11-36 10 speed 2 x 10 up front

    I put on a shimano crank up front a few months back lighter and looks better IMO.

  15. #15
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    1,001
    I've been using SRAM 2x10 for 2 years. Love it. No reason to go back to 3x9 for me.

  16. #16
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    8
    So far I haven't seen anyone who rides 2x10 or 3x10 complain so maybe there aren't too many issues.

    LMN - not being confrontational but do you have anything to back that comment up? Would be really interested.

    I agree 3x10 is probably very silly but as predicted bikes are already starting to come with this as standard. At least in my price range.

  17. #17
    LMN
    LMN is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    4,313
    Quote Originally Posted by Katefromaus View Post
    So far I haven't seen anyone who rides 2x10 or 3x10 complain so maybe there aren't too many issues.

    LMN - not being confrontational but do you have anything to back that comment up? Would be really interested.

    I agree 3x10 is probably very silly but as predicted bikes are already starting to come with this as standard. At least in my price range.
    Funny enough this topic came up tonight. Definitely a lot more broken chains, and complaints of chain suck.

    One racer was telling a story about a relatively dry race where everyone in the lead group suffered from chain suck at some point. Something that "wouldn't have happened last year".

    Btw I am still a fan of the traditional triple. I don't need the large big ring but I have done many rides where I have spent a lot of time in the 22 x 34. if you were to do a race like trans Rockies you would die without a granny gear even if you happen to be a half decent pro.
    "The best pace is suicide pace, and today is a good day to die." Steve Prefontaine

  18. #18
    (he thinks he can)
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    290
    love the drivetrain minus the increase chain slap i get..
    08 SS c'dale f4
    07 Prophet
    10 Yeti DJ
    Yeti Arc-x
    11 Yeti asr5-c
    ..and they place nice together!

  19. #19
    Team Awesome
    Reputation: playpunk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    973
    I'm running 1 x 10, and have a pretty decent amount of race and ride time on the drivetrain, and I've had no problems. Like none.

    Those hours include 2 muddy WVMBA races, 4 or 5 hard weekday races, a bunch of long, fast rides, and plenty of normal dinking around.

    I know that bikerumor has a chain-wear test going. I'm notoriously hard on stuff, but I've had no problems with any of my 10 speed stuff on the cx bike or my mtb... just my experience.

  20. #20
    Relentless forward motion
    Reputation: strat819's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    353
    Quote Originally Posted by LMN View Post
    if you were to do a race like trans Rockies you would die without a granny gear even if you happen to be a half decent pro.
    um.... without what? (2x10's come in 24/38, 26/39, 28/42)... pick your poison.

    The range is pretty much the same if you want it to be.


    http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gears/
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails How is 10 speed treating you-22-32-44.jpg  

    How is 10 speed treating you-24-38.jpg  

    Last edited by strat819; 06-30-2011 at 08:02 AM.

  21. #21
    likes to ride bikes
    Reputation: TunicaTrails's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    893
    44-32-22 triples were designed for old 7-speed mountain bikes with 11-24 cassettes in the back, come on, the granny/horse has been dead and beaten for years. If you really still need a triple you're better off walking.

    I am definitely a masher and was surprised to see how strong my Wipperman 10so chain has been. That said, I have a wheelset and now a chain that are race-day only.

  22. #22
    CB2
    CB2 is offline
    Jam Econo
    Reputation: CB2's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    4,214
    Quote Originally Posted by TunicaTrails View Post
    44-32-22 triples were designed for old 7-speed mountain bikes with 11-24 cassettes in the back,
    .
    No one ran a 11/24 back in the day; 12/28 for micro drive or Shimano compact. The hot ticket back then was to run a normal range (11/30, or 12/32) with Micro / Compact cranks and have a real wall climber.

    It sounds like 10 speed is as reliable as it's predecessors. I just built a bike with 10 speed 105 for a friend and was highly impressed. Shifted nicer than 9 speed Dura Ace. It good to hear that for the majority of you 10 speed is working out just fine.

  23. #23
    is turning a big gear
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    505
    Quote Originally Posted by playpunk View Post
    I'm running 1 x 10, and have a pretty decent amount of race and ride time on the drivetrain, and I've had no problems. Like none.

    Those hours include 2 muddy WVMBA races, 4 or 5 hard weekday races, a bunch of long, fast rides, and plenty of normal dinking around.

    I know that bikerumor has a chain-wear test going. I'm notoriously hard on stuff, but I've had no problems with any of my 10 speed stuff on the cx bike or my mtb... just my experience.
    What 1x10 gearing do you run? 26" or 29"?

  24. #24
    Team Awesome
    Reputation: playpunk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    973
    Quote Originally Posted by estabro View Post
    What 1x10 gearing do you run? 26" or 29"?
    29" 33t front ring (blackspire SS ring) MRP 1.x chainguide, and SLX 11-36 rear cassette.

  25. #25
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    637
    Quote Originally Posted by TunicaTrails View Post
    44-32-22 triples were designed for old 7-speed mountain bikes with 11-24 cassettes in the back, come on, the granny/horse has been dead and beaten for years. If you really still need a triple you're better off walking.
    ... said by someone from a flat state.

  26. #26
    likes to ride bikes
    Reputation: TunicaTrails's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    893
    For the most part true, but not where I live. I do better at out of state races, the longer the climbs the better.


    Quote Originally Posted by strader View Post
    ... said by someone from a flat state.

  27. #27
    mtbr member
    Reputation: WR304's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    4,796
    Quote Originally Posted by TunicaTrails View Post
    If you really still need a triple you're better off walking.
    What you need is the Ultra Climber. It's slightly slower than walking.

    <iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/FgIL6eHHgZU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

  28. #28
    LMN
    LMN is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    4,313
    Quote Originally Posted by TunicaTrails View Post
    44-32-22 triples were designed for old 7-speed mountain bikes with 11-24 cassettes in the back, come on, the granny/horse has been dead and beaten for years. If you really still need a triple you're better off walking.

    I am definitely a masher and was surprised to see how strong my Wipperman 10so chain has been. That said, I have a wheelset and now a chain that are race-day only.
    I have disagree. In all but the muddiest conditions it is faster and more efficient to ride then walk.

    I have had people run past me on climbs but I always re-pass them when they have to recover from their sprint. Watts are watts if you produce 800 watts to run up a hill then you are going to have to pay that back at some point.
    "The best pace is suicide pace, and today is a good day to die." Steve Prefontaine

  29. #29
    mtbr member
    Reputation: smilinsteve's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    8,613
    Quote Originally Posted by B-RAY View Post
    Hahaha thats why i roll on a 9sp 11-36 Ti casset from Nino and it rocks big time been on it for couple months shifts great and at 212 grams iam happy. Glad i didn't drop the coin on a whole new drivetrain just a casset. Thats just my 2cent.
    10 speed is treating me like sh#t, because I don't have it. The big 2 have basically abandoned all there customers who paid for 9 speed stuff, and now you can't even get a quality 11-36 cassette in 9 speed (Shimano HG-61 weighs a ton).
    the only other choice is to spend a bazillion dollars on a Ti cassete like B-Ray did, and that's a bunch of crap.

  30. #30
    mtbr member
    Reputation: smilinsteve's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    8,613
    Quote Originally Posted by strat819 View Post
    um.... without what? (2x10's come in 24/38, 26/39, 28/42)... pick your poison.
    Really? The bike dealer recently told my buddy that 26 was the smallest small on a 2 x10 crank. No?
    The range is pretty much the same if you want it to be.


    http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gears/

    Pretty much the same if you ride a 26er. 22x36 on a 29er is equivalent to the standard 22x32 on a 26er. So, 24 is not low enough.
    I started a thread about this for the front range forum, and lots of people riding Colorado hills want the low low gear, some even getting 20 tooth chainrings or 38 tooth cogs from Action Tec for example.

  31. #31
    is turning a big gear
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    505
    Quote Originally Posted by WR304 View Post
    What you need is the Ultra Climber. It's slightly slower than walking.
    Watching him climb that hill going 0.5 mph might be the most boring thing on youtube.

  32. #32
    mutaullyassuredsuffering
    Reputation: used2Bhard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    2,053

    great

    1 year, a 24 solo, a couple hundo's, an xc race, a winter spent riding in the snow and slush, and 4 more months of training on mine. I haven't made an adjustment or missed a shift.
    Free will is an illusion, people will always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure.

  33. #33
    Relentless forward motion
    Reputation: strat819's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    353
    Quote Originally Posted by smilinsteve View Post
    Really? The bike dealer recently told my buddy that 26 was the smallest small on a 2 x10 crank. No?



    Pretty much the same if you ride a 26er. 22x36 on a 29er is equivalent to the standard 22x32 on a 26er. So, 24 is not low enough.
    I started a thread about this for the front range forum, and lots of people riding Colorado hills want the low low gear, some even getting 20 tooth chainrings or 38 tooth cogs from Action Tec for example.
    NOPE! Your bike dealer is uninformed (or not telling your buddie the truth).

    http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bc/...cname=Mountain

    I ride a 38x24... available on the comp through the s-works.

    And honestly if you can't turn over the 24 or 26 X 36 on a 29'r ... sheesh. (unless it's the 19th hr of a 24 hr solo race and a 10% grade... in the dark with your lights crapped out) LOL... I'm kidding... p

    ...a little. no really... kidding hehe!

    In all seriousness... I don't know about the western slope, but the eastern slope... I find the 24x36 totally useless... a 26 would be much better! The truth is... a lot of what works is about fitness. I commend Specialized for the 24x38... It suites many more riders with different fitness levels. But, yeah.. they offer it standard... and it works... good too!

    No flames... I just get annoyed at what little knowledge some sales people really have.

    Know thy product... know thy competition better!

    ...that is unless you want to be a poor sales person instead of a rich one.
    Last edited by strat819; 06-30-2011 at 09:51 PM.

  34. #34
    mtbr member
    Reputation: smilinsteve's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    8,613
    Quote Originally Posted by strat819 View Post
    NOPE! Your bike dealer is uninformed (or not telling your buddie the truth).

    http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bc/...cname=Mountain

    I ride a 38x24... available on the comp through the s-works.

    And honestly if you can't turn over the 24 or 26 X 36 on a 29'r ... sheesh. (unless it's the 19th hr of a 24 hr solo race and a 10% grade... in the dark with your lights crapped out) LOL... I'm kidding... p

    ...a little. no really... kidding hehe!

    In all seriousness... I don't know about the western slope, but the eastern slope... I find the 24x36 totally useless... a 26 would be much better! The truth is... a lot of what works is about fitness. I commend Specialized for the 24x38... It suites many more riders with different fitness levels. But, yeah.. they offer it standard... and it works... good too!

    No flames... I just get annoyed at what little knowledge some sales people really have.

    Know thy product... know thy competition better!

    ...that is unless you want to be a poor sales person instead of a rich one.
    The link you post shows the crank as a "custom SRAM". I think it really is custom because I think the X9, XO, XX, SRAMs have a 80 mm BCD for the small, limiting it to a 26 small ring. Correct me if I'm wrong.
    Anyway, that crank has a 64mm BCD, meaning you could even slap on a 22 if you wanted. That's cool.

    Anyway, it,s a silly argument to say if a gear is low enough for one guy it should be low enough for anyone. Since you are in Colorado, you know there are plenty of trails where everyone has to walk some parts. Lower gearing means less walking. I have no problem admitting that there are lots of people who could kick my a$$ up hills. I also know there are plenty of people who ride the craziest stuff around here and want the lowest gears possible.

  35. #35
    Relentless forward motion
    Reputation: strat819's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    353
    Quote Originally Posted by smilinsteve View Post
    The link you post shows the crank as a "custom SRAM". I think it really is custom because I think the X9, XO, XX, SRAMs have a 80 mm BCD for the small, limiting it to a 26 small ring. Correct me if I'm wrong.
    Anyway, that crank has a 64mm BCD, meaning you could even slap on a 22 if you wanted. That's cool.

    Anyway, it,s a silly argument to say if a gear is low enough for one guy it should be low enough for anyone. Since you are in Colorado, you know there are plenty of trails where everyone has to walk some parts. Lower gearing means less walking. I have no problem admitting that there are lots of people who could kick my a$$ up hills. I also know there are plenty of people who ride the craziest stuff around here and want the lowest gears possible.
    LOL... yeah... made for or by specialized... that's what custom means I think! I believe an XO / XX spider will fit... "I believe". The crank is an XO crank "I believe"... but yeah... cool! LOL Edit: and I am suspicious of the crank... I think its a 3x whatever... hence what you say. The"custom" parts are the rings? ...haha!

    In the end 2x10 can mimic 3x9 without the overlap and save weight and offer potentially better shifting. 26 versus 29 not withstanding.

    I agree... it is silly... gearing is about fitness/power... can you turn it over as long as you need to... and where you ride! Different strokes for different folks! +1 Completely agree w you my friend!

  36. #36
    mtbr member
    Reputation: brentos's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    1,476
    I know people have had some reliability issues with the 10 speed SRAM rear derraileurs (tensioning spring, which I think they've fixed), Shimano stuff has seemed good so far, but so did XX for it's first year.

    My most reliable setup has been XTR 9 speed, best shifting was X.0 9 speed, but I haven't ridden the 10 speed stuff yet...just got it in the mail. XX 28-42 rings with a pg-1070 12-36 cassette.

    I wasn't going to buy into 2x10 based on marketing spin, so I put together some tools to figure out what might work best for me....(it's techy, so you may want to stop reading here).

    I noticed that some gear changes on a 11-34 cassette were too big for my liking (20-17 tooth for example), so I built a chart to show the % increases between gears for different cassettes. I don't like the 11-13 jump either, so I figured my tolerance of gear jump is about a 16% ratio increase. The 12-36 keeps the differences between each cog under this value.

    39t ring & 12t cog didn't have enough top end for the amount of road use (based on 3x9 reference), so I went 28-42. The 28-36 chainring/cog combo should keep me under threshold for grades up to 16% or so (again using 3x9 as reference), this rules out two long, 20% climbs in my area...we'll see how the new parts hold up.

    I'm still a fan of the triple, maybe the 2x10 will sway me, but I think a 26-34-42 crank with a 12-36 10 speed cassette would be ideal for me.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails How is 10 speed treating you-cassette-ratios.jpg  

    How is 10 speed treating you-gear-chart.jpg  


  37. #37
    mtbr member
    Reputation: fueledbymetal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    827
    I love it. No more mis-shifting the big ring to the granny ring like on my old 3x9 and for most races the added range lets me keep it in the big ring.
    2014 Seven Ti w/gears
    2012 Seven Ti SS
    2012 Seven Steel SS w/rigid fork

  38. #38
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    285
    Quote Originally Posted by strader View Post
    ... said by someone from a flat state.
    personally, the cadence needed to keep the bike moving in the smallest gearing makes it only really useful for very short periods of time on single track, or recovering on a fire road. Stabbing a pedal is a quick way to end up walking as well.

    26x36 is only 2 more inches per revolution than 22x34.. is it really going to make a huge difference? We're not talking about a 1x10 vs 3x9

  39. #39
    mtbr member
    Reputation: smilinsteve's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    8,613
    26/36 x 26"xpi= 58.96 inches per crank turn
    22/34x26"xpi = 52.83

    Six inches per revolution not 2. And on a 29er, its even more:

    26/36 x29"xpi = 65.77 inches per crank turn
    22/34 x 29"x pi = 58.92

    Almost 7 inches wheel travel difference for each crank turn. That's significant, and you can feel that
    its significant even if you don't do the math.

    Edit: Note also that the 29er travels 6-7 inches farther than the 26er in the same gear, in those combinations, with the difference greater in the taller gear.
    Last edited by smilinsteve; 07-01-2011 at 09:25 PM.

  40. #40
    likes to ride bikes
    Reputation: TunicaTrails's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    893
    The solution for technical climbs is often a tougher gear. I know that it was my nature to drop to the lowest gear possible and hope to pick my way through rocks, or to try and spin up a 30% grade. Back during the time I was racing Cat 2 this seemed to be the only solution to keep from destroying my legs.

    Many singlespeeders can finish 100-milers on 32-16. But by that apparently terrible restriction, they also get more spin on downhills and flats, not allowing their legs to be worn out in those areas of the course. Slower, yes, but surprisingly, not by much.

    I dig 36x11-36 on a 29er. I'm no JHK by any stretch but he had his best year on just that setup. I see World Cup pro races are a hammer fest for closer to 20 miles, whereas Cat 1 races are 30 miles in the states against obsessive hobbyists. Nonetheless it makes me feel that you've just got to get up and hammer in an XC race, there's no time to conserve energy.

  41. #41
    mtbr member
    Reputation: jerry68's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    453
    Running 1X10 on my Quiring and I love it. I am thinking about converting my FS to 2X10.

  42. #42
    mtbr member
    Reputation: smilinsteve's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    8,613
    People are confusing 2 ring cranks and 10 speed cassettes as being "10 speed", when they are 2 separate, and equally worthless, evolutions.

    There is no advantage to a 10 speed cassette over a 9 speed, other than slightly smaller jumps, which would be non-noticeable for 95% of riders. The extra range of bigger cogs has nothing to do with 10 speed. The same ranges are possible with 9.

    2 ring cranks make sense for a lot of people which is why people convert their 3 ring to 2 + bash guard. This is actually a much better option than the new 2x cranks, because you have more flexibility of what rings to run.
    Somehow we are supposed to get excited when SRAM figures out how to limit our options and take away our lower gears. I'm not falling for it. The 80 mm BCD is dumb, and they didn't take into account the boom in 29ers and the need for lower gearing. I will bet you they will revamp their 2x10 set ups for next year, with lower gearing options. The fact that they are making a custom crank for Specialized with a 64mm BCD says a lot. It makes so much more sense.
    Why would you limit your small ring to 26 t, when you could use a 64, 104 BCD traditional crank, and run a 22, 24, 28 whatever. The traditional bolt circle diameters allow you to run any of these new ring combos, plus a lot of other ones that the 80 BCD does not. Dumb.

  43. #43
    likes to ride bikes
    Reputation: TunicaTrails's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    893
    Aren't Cat 1 and better racers the top 5% of riders? I guess there's no reason to be upset about it if you don't appreciate the changes. Keep riding a 26" hardtail with a triple chainring.

  44. #44
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Guppie58's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    1,558
    I don't see any difference between the two gearing system. I've ridden both and agree that it's more of a mental thing than true performance enhancer. The debate between the two systems is no different than the debate between SRAM and Shimano. They both function and will get you from A to B. Pick whatever gets you there faster.

    Give the cost of components that need replacing (chain, cassette, rings) there is no way I can justify buying that system. I specifically bought the S-Works frame just to avoid XX. That and because I could custom build lighter bike than OEM.

    I think XX is more hype than function. But that's just my experience with it. I wanted to love it, but it didn't offer me anything more than XO can offer.



  45. #45
    Dirty South Underdog
    Reputation: Andrea138's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    1,725
    Quote Originally Posted by whybotherme View Post


    maybe i am just magical. kind of like my experience with Crank Brothers pedals. (not all their stuff works for me, i hate the Joplin, total waste of big money.
    Is it just me, or is the swingarm on your rack held on with a tube?

    Also, I am a Crank Bros. pedal fan, too. Especially for conditions like the ones you posted.
    Brickhouse Blog (most known unknown)

    Just Riding Along- best internet radio show on Mountain Bike Radio

  46. #46
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    1,001
    Quote Originally Posted by Andrea138 View Post
    Is it just me, or is the swingarm on your rack held on with a tube?

    Also, I am a Crank Bros. pedal fan, too. Especially for conditions like the ones you posted.
    Tube is just to keep the rub marks down on the forks

    Still never had an issue with CB pedals. I'm STILL running 4Ti's that we put on a Dos Niner in November 2007.

    Oh, to be on topic... Love my 2x10. Running X9 on my 09 Epic. Loved it today. Even managed to climb in 39x36 in 100F with heat stroke just barely held at bay I will be honest, sometimes when I'm higher up on the cassette and in the bigger ring it likes to try to slip off, but could be that I need to adjust my cable.

  47. #47
    Relentless forward motion
    Reputation: strat819's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    353
    Quote Originally Posted by Guppie58 View Post
    I don't see any difference between the two gearing system. I've ridden both and agree that it's more of a mental thing than true performance enhancer. The debate between the two systems is no different than the debate between SRAM and Shimano. They both function and will get you from A to B. Pick whatever gets you there faster.

    Give the cost of components that need replacing (chain, cassette, rings) there is no way I can justify buying that system. I specifically bought the S-Works frame just to avoid XX. That and because I could custom build lighter bike than OEM.

    I think XX is more hype than function. But that's just my experience with it. I wanted to love it, but it didn't offer me anything more than XO can offer.
    yeah man, completely agree... they get you from point a to point b... but we are in a XC racing forum... and I would argue that for racing, a 2x10 has big advantages. I doubt I am the only racer who feels this way... but the less I have to think or worry about shifting the better... and the 2 front rings allow me to pick one and forget it for a long time (I am certain I don't shift up front nearly as much as my 3X9)... the front shifting is more reliable for sure... not the 10 versus 9 speed... I for one, don't think it's a game changer... but I do like the tighter gear spacing... the front 2 versus 3... huge performance gains with the 2.

    And I agree... I ride XO/X9 and see no reason to change. I dont think XX is "hype"... but at the Cat 1 cat 2 level... the weight of XX versus XO or X9... won't make a bit of difference. It's a given that the lighter the component the less durable. Now... the one subjective issue.... if it makes you like your bike mentally... or ride/push just a weeeee bit harder (racing and training)... XX is worth it. Here is how I know.... When someone asks me if I think my Zipps make me faster... and were worth it... I say hell yeah... when they are on my bike... i ride the $hit out of it... I have to... I have Zipps under me... They make me faster... mentally... Okay: here it is: I feel like I have to "carry" the Zipps. I know I am faster... the wheels don't do it... the idea of them does. LMAO... but... Im serious! LOL

    Oh... My BCD is 64. (2 rings)... The crank is XO, and the uber light Sworks crank/spider combo from Spec that would go perfect w your frame... 64 !!!!
    Last edited by strat819; 07-03-2011 at 10:11 PM.

  48. #48
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Daemon[CRO]'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    349
    2x10 XO cranks, X9 rest, works like a charm. It's basically setup-and-forget, drop to smaller ring in front, ride all day, shift to big ring when going home. That's it.
    Daemon
    "Worship the Machines."
    www.nivas.hr | www.worship.hr

  49. #49
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Overkill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    389
    Quote Originally Posted by LMN View Post
    if you were to do a race like trans Rockies you would die without a granny gear even if you happen to be a half decent pro.
    I don't know about that...I did transrockes in 2006 with a 2x9 (29x42 front and 11-32 back), and I don't remember have a difficult time. I was with a slower partner, so maybe it was putting me in an easier zone on the climbs...not sure.

    I'm still using the same gearing today and I've never needed more for short xc and endurance races. Some people are more comfortable pushing a tougher gear on the climbs I suppose...

    As a side note, I've been using the same 29 and 42 custom titanium chainrings on a square taper race face next lp crank since 2005 and no signs of needing replacement still - pretty nuts. I can't justify going to 2x10 until this setup dies!!

Similar Threads

  1. So I was thinking of treating myself to new rims...
    By alex55 in forum Downhill - Freeride
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: 12-29-2008, 08:28 AM
  2. who knows anything about heat treating?????
    By .WestCoastHucker. in forum Downhill - Freeride
    Replies: 47
    Last Post: 10-10-2008, 11:43 AM
  3. RFX not treating me as good as the Spot
    By bobo_krkk_NIN in forum Turner
    Replies: 53
    Last Post: 09-27-2008, 12:15 AM
  4. heat treating aluminum. .
    By az1jeff in forum Arizona
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 06-25-2007, 10:39 AM
  5. Treating my steel frame
    By SpinWheelz in forum Singlespeed
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 06-13-2005, 03:12 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •