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  1. #1
    LMN
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    "Forbidden races"

    The story about Pro-team riders in the US not being able to do non-federation sanctioned races is apparently not quite accurate.

    Apparently any rider with a UCI license in any country cannot do a race not sanctioned by a federation.

    Clarification of UCI Rule 1.2.019 and related sanctions - USA Cycling

    Hopefully all of our race promotors and our national federations can work together and come up with a solution.
    "The best pace is suicide pace, and today is a good day to die." Steve Prefontaine

  2. #2
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    "Forbidden races"

    Solution should be to pull out of USAC

  3. #3
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    "Forbidden races"

    Quote Originally Posted by LMN View Post
    The story about Pro-team riders in the US not being able to do non-federation sanctioned races is apparently not quite accurate.

    Apparently any rider with a UCI license in any country cannot do a race not sanctioned by a federation.

    Clarification of UCI Rule 1.2.019 and related sanctions - USA Cycling

    Hopefully all of our race promotors and our national federations can work together and come up with a solution.
    I call on all Pros and other UCI licensed cyclists to enter events as "Pat McQuaid".
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  4. #4
    Rod
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy View Post
    I call on all Pros and other UCI licensed cyclists to enter events as "Pat McQuaid".
    Well said!
    There is not much choice between rotten apples.

  5. #5
    LMN
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    Quote Originally Posted by vtskibum View Post
    Solution should be to pull out of USAC
    That is a solution. We shouldn't just say USAC because this "clarification" affects all countries.

    Every fall my wife and I organize a grass roots cross series. The races are sanctioned through our federation and are dirt cheap to enter. If you have UCI license they are $10, otherwise they are $20. At that entry fee we actually make a bit of money and, thanks to sponsors, have a decent price selection. Our federation makes it really easy to put these grass roots series on.

    However, there are many MTB races that are unsanctioned. Some of these races are charging huge entry fees and rarely is there any prizing. As both a racer and an organizer I have a bit of an issue with this.

    I know in the past there was, for lack of better words, "a huge pissing match between organizers and federations". If two groups could get over the past and work together we would probably see better races and lower entry fees.

    Wouldn't it be nice if you only had to pay for insurance once, when you bought your license, rather than for every single race you enter. Or if there was some sort of consistence in the categories from race to race.
    "The best pace is suicide pace, and today is a good day to die." Steve Prefontaine

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMN View Post
    The story about Pro-team riders in the US not being able to do non-federation sanctioned races is apparently not quite accurate.

    Apparently any rider with a UCI license in any country cannot do a race not sanctioned by a federation.
    ... but USAC is the only one that is really enforcing this rule... other countries not so much.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by rallymaniac View Post
    ... but USAC is the only one that is really enforcing this rule... other countries not so much.
    That may be why the UCI issued this letter.

    USAC doesn't help the sport in my opinion. OBRA and unsanctioned events do a much better job of growing the sport.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by ACree View Post
    That may be why the UCI issued this letter.

    USAC doesn't help the sport in my opinion. OBRA and unsanctioned events do a much better job of growing the sport.
    I head about this on Monday and thought it was an April fools joke. I'm still in denial that it's real.

    IMO this has very little to do with the advancement of the sport. It's about control and money.



  9. #9
    LMN
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    Quote Originally Posted by rallymaniac View Post
    ... but USAC is the only one that is really enforcing this rule... other countries not so much.
    I can tell you that the rule is also going to be enforced in Canada. But it is a bigger issue in US, there is a lot more races that are not under the umbrella of the USAC.
    "The best pace is suicide pace, and today is a good day to die." Steve Prefontaine

  10. #10
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    "Forbidden races"

    Quote Originally Posted by LMN View Post
    I can tell you that the rule is also going to be enforced in Canada. But it is a bigger issue in US, there is a lot more races that are not under the umbrella of the USAC.
    The more non-USAC races there are the less USAC matters. Stop supporting USAC/USAC races and they and the UCI have no hold on you.
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    It is sad that the USAC wants to get money for the races that are put on by volunteers of local clubs. Our local club has several races and a small series and the money goes back to the riders and into the trails. We now have 2 mountain bike parks and 2 more that we are working on all with volunteer labor and local bike shop support. I have raced a few USAC events and paid the one time race fee and thought about getting a license, but not anymore.

  12. #12
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    So any UCI license and USAC Pro's licensed rider are effected? How big of a pool is that? Am I missing something?

  13. #13
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    If you are against the rule you can sign this petition.

    http://www.change.org/petitions/usa-...i-rule-1-2-019

  14. #14
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    "Forbidden races"

    Quote Originally Posted by Drider85 View Post
    So any UCI license and USAC Pro's licensed rider are effected? How big of a pool is that? Am I missing something?
    Anyone with a USAC license (and every other national federation) is affected as per the latest letter from McQuaid.
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  15. #15
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    I wish I could get by without a USAC license but there is zero XC or CX racing in my area that is non sanctioned. A few Marathon style events but thats it!
    Raised in a Chicken-Coop by Chickens

  16. #16
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    "Forbidden races"

    My initial reaction to this has changed after LMNs comments. If it is cheap for an event to be sanctioned by a federation, why not be sanctioned? Having consistency with insurance etc. can only be a good thing in my mind.

    I would love to hear about the hurdles race promoters have in getting their events sanctioned. Does USAC make it harder than Cycling BC/Cycling Canada? If Interior Cross, the series I think LMN is referring to can be sanctioned at a very reasonable cost then why not all races?

    I love the fact Pros such as Pendrel, Kabush, Guthrie etc. participate in local events. It is a huge inspiration and motivator for me and others. The only way this will continue is for everyone to get along. Most people seem to have the attitude 'screw the establishment', but why? I only have experience with Australian/Canadian federations, they appear to do a lot for our sport. Is USAC really that bad in comparison?

    Please, inform my ignorance.

  17. #17
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    I don't think it is always cheap, I know a local grass roots racing series that was approached by USAC to become sanctioned events. It would have raised his cost to run the races by $1000 dollars which would have to be passed on to the racers. If USAC is so great then organizer will come to them no need to force people to choose. The only reason to have this rule is to force riders into USAC only events which will force organizer to go to USAC or quit having races.

    After seeing this letter I plan to not race anything related to USAC.

  18. #18
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    From what I understand, I hold a USAC license....not a UCI license. I am not a pro, but race Cat 1 mtb.

    This whole thing does not specifically apply to me from what I understand. Am I correct?

    Isn't a UCI license for those who race internationally...aka international pros?

    The clear issue I have with this at the moment is knowing that many of the pros that I see at some of the local races may never show up again. That would be lame and therefore frustrates me quite a bit.

  19. #19
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    According to the Velonews article, this rule affects about 3,000 racers(assuming that's road,mtn, and cx?). For MTB, only Pro riders have a UCI license, which is why the pro license is $150 and a Cat1 is $60. Cat 1&2 guys are not affected by this as they do not have an International license (please correct me if I'm wrong).

    I upgraded to pro last fall, but I'm surely just a dirtbag racer that likes to do the fun races around Colorado, some USAC, but most not. I'd love to know if I'm actually gonna get my letter informing me of a 50-100 dollar fine and one month suspension. That's funny. But what happens when I don't pay it?? No more USAC races forever? If I ever try to buy a One-Day on race morning, will someone actually cross-reference my name and keep me from racing?

    It seems like the best option for guys like me is to just downgrade back to Cat 1. No money to the UCI. No hassle from USAC.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by rydbyk View Post
    From what I understand, I hold a USAC license....not a UCI license. I am not a pro, but race Cat 1 mtb.

    This whole thing does not specifically apply to me from what I understand. Am I correct?

    Isn't a UCI license for those who race internationally...aka international pros?

    The clear issue I have with this at the moment is knowing that many of the pros that I see at some of the local races may never show up again. That would be lame and therefore frustrates me quite a bit.
    You are fine.

    I had this conversation with my boyfriend last night. Not that I am anywhere near being pro level, or even cat 1 yet, but I told him that if I ever got to that level I would probably just stay cat 1 and not go pro because living in CO/WY most of the races are unsanctioned and I still would want to race in them. He thinks I'm silly for thinking this way, and I think he's deluded in what being a "pro MTBer" means (he thinks pros get paid a ton of money and only ride bikes all day long...). But I know a lot more people have to be thinking this way... why go pro if now you can't race in a lot of awesome races?

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by dlennard View Post
    If you are against the rule you can sign this petition.

    http://www.change.org/petitions/usa-...i-rule-1-2-019
    Signed. USAC could make it very clear that they wil pay lip service to this rule and do nothing more than issue warning letters for 2013, while working to change the rule. They have a fight to fight either way. They can choose to advocate for their base - the athletes that pay their dues or the international sanctioning body. Their choice is beyond my comprehension. Stand up for your people or lose any semblence of legitimacy.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lahrs View Post
    My initial reaction to this has changed after LMNs comments. If it is cheap for an event to be sanctioned by a federation, why not be sanctioned? Having consistency with insurance etc. can only be a good thing in my mind.

    I would love to hear about the hurdles race promoters have in getting their events sanctioned. Does USAC make it harder than Cycling BC/Cycling Canada? If Interior Cross, the series I think LMN is referring to can be sanctioned at a very reasonable cost then why not all races?

    I love the fact Pros such as Pendrel, Kabush, Guthrie etc. participate in local events. It is a huge inspiration and motivator for me and others. The only way this will continue is for everyone to get along. Most people seem to have the attitude 'screw the establishment', but why? I only have experience with Australian/Canadian federations, they appear to do a lot for our sport. Is USAC really that bad in comparison?

    Please, inform my ignorance.
    I would think antitrust laws would prevent such practices, since having monopolies is never a good thing. That is why I am surprised at this move.
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  23. #23
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    This is my response>
    I had planned on racing a few Pro XCT's, Nationals, State Champs (which is really only 1 of 2 sanctioned races in Colorado)... but forget it at this point. The handful of USAC races I did, I spent loads of money to attend, but their fun factor compared to the good races wasn't even close.

    If USUCK decides to stand up for us, I'm willing to roll with the punches and sort this out. But for the moment, I've decided to race unsanctioned stuff all year long

    &quot;Forbidden races&quot;-537241_10151490664839718_1391502343_n.jpg

  24. #24
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    SJockey, i respect your stand and support the boycott of USAC. But, You can burn your card,but really the card is just paper. Did you call or email USAC and ask for them to refute your membership? Technically you are still a member/rider, and might still get hassled by the Feds even without a card. Take the time to call or email USAC and tell them to F off, otherwise you still may be under their power.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbsbiker View Post
    SJockey, i respect your stand and support the boycott of USAC. But, You can burn your card,but really the card is just paper. Did you call or email USAC and ask for them to refute your membership? Technically you are still a member/rider, and might still get hassled by the Feds even without a card. Take the time to call or email USAC and tell them to F off, otherwise you still may be under their power.
    Oh it's a bit more than paper... whatever chemicals are in that thing, had me choking for a bit

    Yes, done more than just a political statement, emails sent, petitions signed yada yada. However, it actually makes sense to remain USAC/UCI licensed technically. That way I'm a constituent with a vote and as a member they may be 'more' inclined to listen. Like moving to california to oppose a colorado law > You gotta stick around and have your votes and say be meaningful.

  26. #26
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    Posted on Facebook by my LBS:

    Sho-Air International addresses
    UCI/USAC “Forbidden Race” Ruling.

    http://www.uscup.net/up/file/pdf/Sho...AC%20Stand.pdf

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by xufima View Post
    Posted on Facebook by my LBS:

    Sho-Air International addresses
    UCI/USAC “Forbidden Race” Ruling.

    http://www.uscup.net/up/file/pdf/Sho...AC%20Stand.pdf
    This is great!

    I'm glad you posted this, since I was about to. I hope this is just the beginning of large teams publicly thumbing their nose at the UCI rule and USAC's enforcement of it. Individual riders don't have the clout to do this, and they have too much to lose. But if enough large teams ban together, and if enough race promoters who previously sanctioned their race through USAC drop the sanctioning, then real change can be enacted.

    This should also be a wake-up call to the entire cycling community. The UCI and USAC (it seems, unfortunately) care more about money and their self interests than actually promoting the sport. What a sad state of affairs. Pat McQuaid, Steve Johnson, and likely others should lose their job.
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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by bholwell View Post
    This is great!

    I'm glad you posted this, since I was about to. I hope this is just the beginning of large teams publicly thumbing their nose at the UCI rule and USAC's enforcement of it. Individual riders don't have the clout to do this, and they have too much to lose. But if enough large teams ban together, and if enough race promoters who previously sanctioned their race through USAC drop the sanctioning, then real change can be enacted.

    This should also be a wake-up call to the entire cycling community. The UCI and USAC (it seems, unfortunately) care more about money and their self interests than actually promoting the sport. What a sad state of affairs. Pat McQuaid, Steve Johnson, and likely others should lose their job.
    Agree great comments.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy View Post
    The more non-USAC races there are the less USAC matters. Stop supporting USAC/USAC races and they and the UCI have no hold on you.
    Exactly, simply stop supporting them, PERIOD! When they have no membership, then they cant exist!

  30. #30
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    ...can't exist, or truly start doing what the "body" wants, not what they want.
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  31. #31
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    Here is what USA cycling is doing with the money they take from mountain biking.

    Gallery: USA Cycling unveils new Dutch development facility

    Looks like having mountain biking added to the Olympics was the death blow to USA mountain bike racing as it paved the way for USA cycling and the UCI to take over NORBA.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by nov0798 View Post
    Exactly, simply stop supporting them, PERIOD! When they have no membership, then they cant exist!
    Unfortunately USAC has a strong hold on road and track racing, and like it or not if someone will be selected for the Olympic mt bike race team by USAC. They will not cease to exist anytime soon, we might as well figure out how to work our current system with non-USAC and USAC, races, without penalizing riders.

  33. #33
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    Enforcement of the rule will be postponed.

    Union Cycliste Internationale

  34. #34
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    So... we have a year to oust Pat "banned from the Olympics yet sits on the IOC board" McQuaid. When will the cycling community wake up and get rid of this guy?
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  35. #35
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    I was having dinner with Micah Rice and others a month or so ago, and I had no idea at the time that I could have talked to him about this crap!

    Nobody knows whether this rule will be good or bad for mtbing, and really nobody will ever know. But ultimately it just comes off as a power grab. In their letter they say that there's only a $3 charge for insurance and the costs to the racer organizer for races with <500 people is less than $100. Then they talk about all the amazing things the gobs of money do. If it's a question of $3.50 per rider per race, I think shutting down grassroots racing isn't worth the cost.

    I don't care too much about pros making a living off racing, but I do care about diverse and fun options in the sport. The chill mutli-day ride/races (only certain sections are timed, otherwise folks ride from section to section in a group...party pace) that I occasionally do are so much more fun than norba races I did 15 years ago. We've had some europe touring pros turn up (and they do clean up on the climbs) and its always fun and we all drink beer, et al. together for a jolly time that I don't think USA Cycling provides.

    Really, diffuse power seems like the way to go. You don't like how one race does racing? Go find another where things might be completely different. Hell, if they want to they can measure time in non-standard units. They can take off time for doing sweet tricks during xc races. They can do whatever the hell they want. I don't really know how homogeneous usa cycling races are across the country, but it would take a lot to convince me that enforcement of this rule will not lead to a decline in the diversity of racing and semi-racing events.

  36. #36
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    edit...old news!

  37. #37
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    If anyone would like to gain some knowledge of the topic from a race promoter's perspective, I highly recommend this article. The USAC has a long way to go before it starts adequately meeting the needs of its members.

    Team Managers And Non-sanctioned Race Promoters Frustrated By UCI Rules | Cyclingnews.com
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  38. #38
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    "Forbidden races"

    Quote Originally Posted by bholwell View Post
    If anyone would like to gain some knowledge of the topic from a race promoter's perspective, I highly recommend this article. The USAC has a long way to go before it starts adequately meeting the needs of its members.

    Team Managers And Non-sanctioned Race Promoters Frustrated By UCI Rules | Cyclingnews.com
    I gave up on USAC (then NORBA/USCF) as a promoter ~20 years ago when they lost my sanction application after confirming they received it, blamed me, and I almost had to cancel the event because I did not have insurance in time.
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  39. #39
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    I miss the good ol' days of MTB...
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  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9erfreak View Post
    I miss the good ol' days of MTB...
    Agree 100%
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  41. #41
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    More bad news for USAC due to this dumb rule.

    US Cup Breaks From USA Cycling Sanctioning | News | mountain-bike-action

  42. #42
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    Interesting...but then again, this rule has no effect but to the top pros out there who do local unsanctioned races...

    So imagine this...the ABSA Cape Epic without Jaro and Saucer, the Trans Alps without Lakata...Leadville without Wells (or someone else...), La Ruta de Los Conquistadores without Cesar Paolo Montoya, Andalucia Bike Race without Hermida...

    I honestly don't know if those events are sanctioned or not by the federations of the countries in which they are held, but also remember that most of those events started by private interests, may or may not want to play by the UCI rules...heck, nowadays, almost nobody wants to play by the UCI rules...

  43. #43
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    UCI is a mafia style operation, the Pres is currently changing the election process so he can remain in power. USAC should stand up and leave this organization before their membership leaves them.

  44. #44
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    Good, Tedro has a backbone. I hope all promoters follow his lead and ditch USAC. $hits expensive enough!
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