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Thread: December

  1. #1
    LMN
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    December

    In my house December marks the return of serious training. Yesterday was testing day, time to find out where you are.

    Some not so spectacular power numbers were put up. Just about everyone was down a whole watt/kg from summer numbers. No real surprise, it will take 4 months of hard training to get to last years peak, and then hopefully another 2 months of training to exceed last years peak.

    It is impressive the difference between July and December.

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    It's crazy to think that your wattage has dropped that much! Good luck to you and Catherine this upcomong season. I dislike riding in cold weather and I'm way down in MS. I really doubt that our cold weather is anything like where you live but it's still cold enough to be discouraging... It did snow like half an inch down here the other day

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    LMN
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.Mc.
    It's crazy to think that your wattage has dropped that much! Good luck to you and Catherine this upcomong season. I dislike riding in cold weather and I'm way down in MS. I really doubt that our cold weather is anything like where you live but it's still cold enough to be discouraging... It did snow like half an inch down here the other day
    It is a big drop, but when you are talking 5.5w/kg to 4.5w/kg it isn't the same as 4w/kg to 3w/kg.

    Riding in the cold can be fun. When the trails are frozen solid the grip can be amazing. Catharine road at -10C today and said it was really good (I took her work for it : ) )

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    That's too cold. I'd much rather run when the temp dips below freezing. Maybe I should get some better cold weather riding gear to help get me on the bike more. I haven't been putting in nearly enough time in the saddle but when i do i get on the bike i usually do intervals so i can get my workout done as quickly as possible because being cold kinda sucks imo...

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    I have been trying to figure out just when to start training. Right now I am running pretty consistently though it hit -4F yesterday so I'll have to dress pretty warm for my next run. I think I will wait till January to start trainer riding again though.
    Oh sh!+ just force upgraded to cat1. Now what?
    Best thing about an ultra marathon? I just get to ride my bike for X hours!

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    5.5w/kg! Damn! That's some serious get up and go!

    Sure would like to see those numbers. I'd have to be able to sustain right about 500 watts though!

    Yup, time for some testing on this end too.

    Cheers!

  7. #7
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    The hardest part about sub zero (Celsius ) riding is keeping parts of your face from turning into a popsicle with the windchill, it doesn't take long to have your lips and eyeballs freeze up so you feel you've been to the dentist and eye doctor the same day. At -5C, 20km/h is suddenly a very fast speed on a bike. If you try to cover up more you get to a point where you can't see or move your head and neck.
    I'm a member of NSMBA and IMBA Canada

  8. #8
    B_H
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMN
    It is a big drop, but when you are talking 5.5w/kg to 4.5w/kg it isn't the same as 4w/kg to 3w/kg.
    Yep, that's true.

    Btw, are you talking about watts at threshold or max. watts ? If it's watts at threshold then those are pretty impressive numbers .

    I got also tested a couple of weeks ago and my max watts dropped from 6,15w to 5,4w/kg in six months . Though now I have more watts at threshold(4,6w/kg) than six months ago. .
    Last edited by B_H; 12-10-2009 at 07:13 AM.

  9. #9
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    I'm currently 3.3 (threshold).

    A bit heavier and a bit less powerful. Hope to be around 4 around summer.

    Still putting out 1200w during sprint workouts (in freezing temps), so have maintained my pop somehow.
    Last edited by Poncharelli; 12-10-2009 at 10:00 AM.
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  10. #10
    LMN
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    Quote Originally Posted by B_H
    Yep, that's true.

    Btw, are you talking about watts at threshold or max. watts ? If it's watts at threshold then those are pretty impressive numbers .

    I got also tested a couple of weeks ago and my max watts dropped from 6,15w to 5,4w/kg in six months . Though now I have more watts at threshold than six months ago. .

    Threshold watts. But those aren't my numbers that is what my wife, and my house mate put up. At 5.5w/kg you are getting paid to ride a bike.

    Good job increasing your threshold wattage. For myself my max usually doesn't vary that much but my threshold varies wildly.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockyuphill
    The hardest part about sub zero (Celsius ) riding is keeping parts of your face from turning into a popsicle with the windchill, it doesn't take long to have your lips and eyeballs freeze up so you feel you've been to the dentist and eye doctor the same day. At -5C, 20km/h is suddenly a very fast speed on a bike. If you try to cover up more you get to a point where you can't see or move your head and neck.
    I ride year long, even at -30C... I use a snowboard helmet and goggles when it's too cold, layers all the way to my hands...

    DAN.GEROUS.NET : MOUNTAIN BIKING : CYCLOCROSS : ROAD :

  12. #12
    LMN
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockyuphill
    The hardest part about sub zero (Celsius ) riding is keeping parts of your face from turning into a popsicle with the windchill, it doesn't take long to have your lips and eyeballs freeze up so you feel you've been to the dentist and eye doctor the same day. At -5C, 20km/h is suddenly a very fast speed on a bike. If you try to cover up more you get to a point where you can't see or move your head and neck.
    My lower limit is -10C. For that case I usually limit my rides to 1.5hrs. Any longer then that and I can' keep my hands and toes warm. Plus your water bottle freezes in the first 1/2hr, you end up dry by the end of the ride.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMN
    My lower limit is -10C. For that case I usually limit my rides to 1.5hrs. Any longer then that and I can' keep my hands and toes warm. Plus your water bottle freezes in the first 1/2hr, you end up dry by the end of the ride.
    Yeah, below -10C, I stay inside except for 30 minute commutes...

    DAN.GEROUS.NET : MOUNTAIN BIKING : CYCLOCROSS : ROAD :

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Gerous
    I ride year long, even at -30C... I use a snowboard helmet and goggles when it's too cold, layers all the way to my hands...
    Since I moved from the Prairies to Vancouver 18 years ago I have become a winter weather wimp.
    I'm a member of NSMBA and IMBA Canada

  15. #15
    LMN
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Gerous
    Yeah, below -10C, I stay inside except for 30 minute commutes...
    One of the guys I coach use to live in WhiteHorse.

    He would do 3hr+ rides at -20C. According to him the trick was to take off your clipless pedals and ride in Winter boots and wear ski gloves.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMN
    My lower limit is -10C. For that case I usually limit my rides to 1.5hrs. Any longer then that and I can' keep my hands and toes warm. Plus your water bottle freezes in the first 1/2hr, you end up dry by the end of the ride.
    This post makes me want a Gatorade slushee!
    When under pressure, your level of performance will sink to your level of preparation.


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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMN
    One of the guys I coach use to live in WhiteHorse.

    He would do 3hr+ rides at -20C. According to him the trick was to take off your clipless pedals and ride in Winter boots and wear ski gloves.
    My winter bike already has flat pedals so I can ride with boots and I have some thin gloves that I wear under some bigger, lobster style mittens. The feet and hands get cold the quickest so it's critical to protect them, the rest is pretty easy to keep warm when you pedal, legs stay warm, the core too...

    You can also wear a small Camelbak under your outerwear, water will remain liquid for a while, you just have to fight a bit to pull the tube out of your neck.

    But, although it's doable to train on the bike outside, I still do most trainings inside during the winter months.

    DAN.GEROUS.NET : MOUNTAIN BIKING : CYCLOCROSS : ROAD :

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Gerous
    My winter bike already has flat pedals so I can ride with boots and I have some thin gloves that I wear under some bigger, lobster style mittens. The feet and hands get cold the quickest so it's critical to protect them, the rest is pretty easy to keep warm when you pedal, legs stay warm, the core too...

    You can also wear a small Camelbak under your outerwear, water will remain liquid for a while, you just have to fight a bit to pull the tube out of your neck.

    But, although it's doable to train on the bike outside, I still do most trainings inside during the winter months.

    Yeah I get an hour plus at -35 C with plain old socks and shimano winter boots...

    Yeah I get an hour plus at -35 C with plain old mittens...

    Yeah I do all of my riding outside...

    Oh Yeah and a little wind breaker that attaches to the googles so the cheeks don't freeze.

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    Not to detract from the Canadian FLAVOUR of this thread, but I still have to do the mental math to convert Centigrade to Fahrenheit!
    So:
    -35C = -31F = crazy cold
    and:
    -20C = -4F = very cold
    and:
    -10C = +14F = cold

    It's +16F here right now, the consensus is that 20F (-7C) is the lower limit.

    Maybe now is the time to stop by REI and get that Kurt Kinetic trainer!?!?

  20. #20
    Dead Legs
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    Yeah, me and a buddy went out for a couple hours at -38ºC with a -50ºC windchill last year to ride on the frozen river.. we overdressed, and then nearly froze coming back. full boots, ski pants, goggles.

    Still wasn't nearly as bad as when it was a bit warmer and I put a foot through some ice. Talk about sprint home.

    Canadian Prairie is cold.
    Something Has to be rigid between my legs... so it's my bike.

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    LMN, care to give some examples for typical training weeks at this time of year for the pro riders you are close to? Nice to see what the elite crowd is doing out in the cold!

  22. #22
    LMN
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny K
    LMN, care to give some examples for typical training weeks at this time of year for the pro riders you are close to? Nice to see what the elite crowd is doing out in the cold!
    Sure. They vary quite a bit in the house hold. Everybody has different preferences for cold training. One of my athletes has no problems with long trainer rides. But here is what Matt is doing this week. Matt is one of the best XC racers in Canada( 6th at nationals) His volume isn't that high because he works construction part time.


    Monday: OFF

    Tuesday:
    Workout 1: Testing: 10 minute w.p. 3x3 mintues @210, 250, 280 watts with 3 minutes rest between. Five minutes easy. Set wattage at 330 watts and hold as long as you can. Stop if time reaches 1hr.

    Workout 2: GYM

    Wednesday:
    Workout 1: XC ski 2.5hrs steady throughout.

    Workout 2: Trainer ride: 10 minute w.p. 3x2 minutes @80s, 2 mintues RBE. 10 minutes @85%, 5 minutes easy. 4x20s big gear starts (seated), 2 minutes RBE. 4x5 minutes @85-90% alternate 1 minute standing, 1 minute seated. 10 minute w.d.

    Thursday
    Workout 1: MTB ride 2hrs steady through out.

    Friday:
    Workout 1: GYM

    Saturday:
    Workout 1: XC ski with Martin 3hrs. Minimize stopping.

    Sunday:
    Workout 1: XC ski 2hrs
    Workout 2: Trainer ride: 10 minute w.p. 10x(2 minutes @80-85% with 1 minute rest) alternate seated and standing. 4x20s Big gear seated starts wtih 2 minutes easy between. 10 minute w.d.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMN
    Tuesday:
    Workout 1: Testing: 10 minute w.p. 3x3 mintues @210, 250, 280 watts with 3 minutes rest between. Five minutes easy. Set wattage at 330 watts and hold as long as you can. Stop if time reaches 1hr.
    I'm curious about your testing protocol here. How to you repeat this test the next time? Do you use the same wattages the next time? Is this rider's FTP close to 330? Are you using the test to calculate FTP?
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  24. #24
    LMN
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    Quote Originally Posted by millennium
    I'm curious about your testing protocol here. How to you repeat this test the next time? Do you use the same wattages the next time? Is this rider's FTP close to 330? Are you using the test to calculate FTP?
    For each athlete I choose a goal FTP for each year. For Matt, who is 60kg, this would put him at 5.5 watt/kg. As the year progresses his time at the wattage should increase. If he reaches an hour in the test then I will pick another goal wattage.

    I do this because I find it is the most repeatable test. It is easy to manage and athletes seem to be able to put their best effort into it everytime.

  25. #25
    TEAM TOPEAK - ERGON
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    Been doing similar workouts to what LMN is prescribing for his clients. Winter came early and hard to Colorado. We got about 10 inches of snow and highs temps of about 8F. The last week has been some roller workouts. For example....

    3x20 intervals

    As far as my focus goes, it is not World Cup XC, but rather marathon and multi-day events. Goal for 2010 is the Colorado Trail Race. So, weekday workouts consist of various 2-2.5 hr bike workouts and gym work. Weekends are aimed at longer hours....4-6 hr days on Sat and Sun.

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