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Thread: cutting weight

  1. #1
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    cutting weight

    I have put on a few pounds in the off season and am up to 178 at 5'10. not huge but would like to get it under control. I have started to pay attention to what I eat. I wouldn't say I am on some complicated diet I have been just paying attention to portions and trying to not eat just because I am bored which I do a lot of at work, and cutting out eating when I get home from work.

    in the past two weeks I have lost about 8lbs. I would like to get down to 160 or maybe even 155. my problem is as soon as I seem to cut some calories out within a couple of days I just feel weak. I am not talking about crashes in the middle of the day or stuff like. during my day I feel fine and don't seem to be down on energy, but whenever I do my workouts now I am definitely down enough to notice.

    so my question is how can I lose weight but not lose my fitness in the meantime? Is it a matter of just dealing with it until I get to my goal weight and then my body will adjust and my energy during my workouts will go back up? could i be losing weight to fast. i know 8 pounds in two weeks is probably a little to much but we all know how easy the first couple come off so i assume it will slow down soon.

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    I like this guys approach: Racing Weight by Matt Fitzgerald
    He also has a quickstart & recipe book that are pretty good.

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    I'm sure you'll get more rigorous replies about this, but I'll give you my remedy for the same issue... First, it's winter, and I'm always ~10 heavier now than 2-3 weeks into riding outside (starting ~March 10); some of this is fat, some is extra upper-body muscle from the gym. Leading up to those first weeks of riding outside (say, the 2 weeks or so before starting outdoor "training"), I hit the trainer in the morning, 4 times a week, doing a solid hour of light tempo work, making sure to stay hydrated; I take a double-shot of espresso beforehand. Then I eat a breakfast of 1 cup no-fat yogurt, ~1/2 cut raw oatmeal, and some almonds. It's filling, but not fattening. Then I eat sensible lunches and dinners, usually chicken breasts and quinoa and greens. Then I do my usual gauntlet of afternoon training, but interval lifting once a week, just like in season. For me, this gets the fat off pretty fast; then, during the first 2-3 weeks of riding outside, I keep the same diet, and the fat stays gone, often goes away more -- depending on beer intake and occasional carnitas festivals. Food's too good to sacrifice for a few shaved seconds.

    BTW: I'm at 169 now; I'll be 155 or less by the end of March, easy.

    Hope this helps.

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    One question for you:

    How many hours a week are you riding?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    One question for you:

    How many hours a week are you riding?
    4 hours riding and 4 hours running.

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    Quote Originally Posted by adumb View Post
    4 hours riding and 4 hours running.
    That could be part of the answer.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    That could be part of the answer.
    you must be trolling. surely you don't think it takes more than 8 hours a week of working out along with a nice diet plan to lose weight.

    what do you think i should be doing?

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    First and foremost, this is the XC Racing and Training forum.

    When considering your question, I assumed you have/had an interest in bicycle racing.

    If that's the case, yes, you should consider upping your hours on the bike, if possible.

    Ride 15hrs a week and the weight will take care of itself.
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    your really coming off hard on me for asking a simple question. if this forum was only for super fast guys putting in 15 hours a week i don't think it would see many post.

    i am asking to hear other riders experiences with trying to diet while riding and see if they also felt more tired than usual during workouts until there weight leveled out.

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    I Feel your pain. I keep track of my calories and workouts on Training Peaks software. I have a lot more weight to lose then you and I'm in my mid 40's so it comes off slow even with a lot of riding. I do notice when I up the intensity and volume I have to eat a little more or my workouts suffer. For instance when I have a few back to back days where I'm at a -800 on my calories (in other words I have burned 800 more calories then I ate) I start to pay for it. One thing that helps me is to make sure I get some carbs before/during/and right after my workouts. I can eat less and still train hard if I do this right. That should help you. Then the rest of the day you can cut calories. Make sure on rest days to not eat many carbs, and don't snack after dinner. You can get away with eating less when you fuel up well before/during/after exercise. I think if you do that you'll feel better. Let me know how it works out for you.

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    le duke your usually good for something helpful, but in this case your just being... well unreasonable. It doesnt take 15 hours a week to get in good shape, just the right plan. Will riding 15 hours get you in shape? sure. However, a plan such as the time crunched cyclist shows you can reach "raceable" shape in far fewer hours.

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    Concur with Le Duke, upping time riding will help.

    Consider: just sitting on a stationary bike or erg in front of the tv for just 1 hr a day, gently spinning the legs, for every day in a year equates to 365hrs of additional training. Is that a significant amount of training? Hell yes. Two types of people, those who watch more than 1hr of tv a day and liars.

    Next point, weight loss or gain is *almost* all about energy in vs energy out (there are factors such as the thermogenic effect of certain foods).

    It is best to keep track of everything that goes into the body and as much as possible what goes out. Weight yourself 2-3 times a day and then average over the week to get an indication of whether weight is actually changing (bodyweight can vary up to 2-3kgs a day through hydration and faecal matter alone).

    Two throw-away points, but probably very crucial, are: get more sleep and don't drink any calories (that goes doubly-so for alcohol). Do these two and watch what happens.

    And ride your bike more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TapewormWW View Post
    Weight yourself 2-3 times a day and then average over the week to get an indication of whether weight is actually changing (bodyweight can vary up to 2-3kgs a day through hydration and faecal matter alone).
    That is ridiculously obsessive compulsive. My plan is usually just to try eat fairly clean, control portions and get a lot of exercise. Just eat when you're hungry but don't gouge yourself. It works pretty well even in the winter when I'm only training about 10 hrs/week. I keep a pretty steady weight around 170 lbs at 6'2". Any lower is unmaintainable for me. I also like to have a beer at dinner. It may be empty calories, but I'd rather enjoy life than worry about every little pound. I'm not a pro, so depriving myself isn't necessary.

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    Quote Originally Posted by adumb View Post
    your really coming off hard on me for asking a simple question. if this forum was only for super fast guys putting in 15 hours a week i don't think it would see many post.

    i am asking to hear other riders experiences with trying to diet while riding and see if they also felt more tired than usual during workouts until there weight leveled out.


    Don't get whipped up. It just seemed strange when you posted that you run 5 hours a week. Most XC racers don't run as it doesn't contribute to becoming a faster rider - unless they do it as cross training once a week as a substitute for riding, but most only cross-train for a short time (several weeks).

    If you're eating clean, you should start lossing the weight by riding more and running less. I went from 175lbs to 155lbs in 3 months by upping my riding to 16h a week. No diet change really. I was eating the same kinds of foods and not really monitoring my cal intake but not trying to over do it too much either..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fat Urkel View Post
    Don't get whipped up. It just seemed strange when you posted that you run 5 hours a week. Most XC racers don't run as it doesn't contribute to becoming a faster rider - unless they do it as cross training once a week as a substitute for riding, but most only cross-train for a short time (several weeks).

    If you're eating clean, you should start lossing the weight by riding more and running less. I went from 175lbs to 155lbs in 3 months by upping my riding to 16h a week. No diet change really. I was eating the same kinds of foods and not really monitoring my cal intake but not trying to over do it too much either..
    If I were to guess, he's probably a triathlete. Running is actually really good for keeping the weight off as well. Replacing 5 hrs of running w/ 5 hrs of riding won't do much in terms of burning more calories. Obviously it will make you a better rider though.

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    Tips

    The biggest tip I can give you is to not eat 4 hours before bed time. The way I do this is to know when im going to go to sleep and plan accordingly. If I know i need to eat more, then i do. Even it if means eating until im very full.

    Also it's easy to cut some cal's but switching out milk or calorie drinks with straight water for a few weeks. You can easily cut sever 100 cals just by taking in water only

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    I was lucky in that my partner last year thought it would be interesting to work with a top level sports nutritionist for a month. I got the trickle down effect from that.

    Best advice I learned from that was to eat consistently throughout the day and make sure you getting a good, appropriate balance of macro-nutrients. This will ensure your body is getting what it needs to perform. I think many people when loosing weight try more of the feast and famine routine.

    A daily schedule might be.

    Breakfast (500 calories)
    Morning Snack (250 calories)
    Lunch (500 calories)
    Afternoon snack (250 calories)
    Dinner (500 calories)
    Evening snack (150 calories)

    That's 2150 calories, which is good baseline for the daily (not exercising) lifestyle of a 160-170 lb guy.

    Throwing in exercising. During base training, add in 100 calories during ride if over an hour. Always have 100-300 calories for immediately post work out. This is a big factor. Replenish so you are ready to go again, which includes on the bike.

    If you do a 1.5 hour base ride, burning say 750 calories, but you took in 100 during the ride, 150 post ride, you are still net -500 per day and loosing 1lb per week.

    If I follow a routine like this, I feel great. This includes during race season, though numbers are slightly modified. I wish I was better at doing all this consistently.

    Obviously, during winter base training, 1lb per week is a good goal, but I've always struggled with loosing weight during build periods or race season, though I managed to loose a little last summer doing this (though only on a 1/2 lb per week basis, which I think is more realistic for higher intensity periods where you can't rely as much on aerobic fat burning).

    So that's my experience. Lots of food, though in smaller portions and a good balance of macro-nutrients (AKA enough carbs).

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    Quote Originally Posted by TapewormWW View Post
    Concur with Le Duke, upping time riding will help.

    Consider: just sitting on a stationary bike or erg in front of the tv for just 1 hr a day, gently spinning the legs, for every day in a year equates to 365hrs of additional training. Is that a significant amount of training? Hell yes. Two types of people, those who watch more than 1hr of tv a day and liars.
    If your primary focus is on racing (which I assume is the case given this is the XC racing thread) this advice is really off the mark. Regularly getting on the bike to spin your legs for an hour will do virtually nothing to improve your racing capabilities. Training for racing is all about intensity and you would be much better off doing hard intervals for an hour every couple / few days than just spinning your legs in front of the TV each day. I would also agree / echo the comments made by spec4life. Given the weather in the Northeast right now it would be difficult to get in 15hrs of training on the bike right now unless you are willing to put in major hours on your trainer (ughh) but there are lots of other things you can do to prepare for this year's racing season. Running, weightlifting, aerobics classes, spin classes etc. For weight loss check out Racing Weight as mentioned above ... it is an interesting / easy read and will give you some ideas on what and what not to do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cusco View Post
    I would also agree / echo the comments made by spec4life. Given the weather in the Northeast right now it would be difficult to get in 15hrs of training on the bike right now unless you are willing to put in major hours on your trainer (ughh) but there are lots of other things you can do to prepare for this year's racing season. Running, weightlifting, aerobics classes, spin classes etc.
    If you're in a snowy part of the country, xc skiing is one of the best activities you can do for bike racing.

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    While the original suggestion to do 15 hours a week might have been a little curt, it's a worthy experiment (if you can pull it off) just to experience the physiological response.

    Your resistance to fatigue improves.
    Your speed improves everywhere - up, down, and flat.
    Your weight drops.
    Your technical riding improves because you're lighter, going faster, and you're not as fatigued for the tech stuff.
    It's like having your own private tailwind.

    And it doesn't require a program or a coach. Just ride.

    But, it's a lot of work. It's mentally taxing. You might question yourself.
    It's really not sustainable for most people with family responsibilities.
    But, if you ever get the chance to do that kind of load for a few months, the results are eye-opening.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cusco View Post
    If your primary focus is on racing (which I assume is the case given this is the XC racing thread) this advice is really off the mark. Regularly getting on the bike to spin your legs for an hour will do virtually nothing to improve your racing capabilities. Training for racing is all about intensity and you would be much better off doing hard intervals for an hour every couple / few days than just spinning your legs in front of the TV each day. I would also agree / echo the comments made by spec4life. Given the weather in the Northeast right now it would be difficult to get in 15hrs of training on the bike right now unless you are willing to put in major hours on your trainer (ughh) but there are lots of other things you can do to prepare for this year's racing season. Running, weightlifting, aerobics classes, spin classes etc. For weight loss check out Racing Weight as mentioned above ... it is an interesting / easy read and will give you some ideas on what and what not to do.

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    I wanted to try and not pour out my whole life story when trying to start a topic. but since it has come up I will explain my situation a little more. I live in mass. so it is off season right now or people are starting there base. I wanted to run a half marathon on february 23rd with a couple of my buddies for fun. so in December I started working towards that goal while still trying to make sure i get some riding in. Once I finish the half marathon I will be back on the bike and doling 9-12 hours a week.

    This works out for me because last year I got a little tired come august and september. So this year I pushed back my base a month so i can hopefully finish the season strong.

    cptsydor, great post that was a really good breakdown on what kind of intake i should be doing. i think i am just not taking in enough calories. I have been using the livestrong calorie tracker app. For the past two week i have been doing just under 2000 calories.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TapewormWW View Post

    Next point, weight loss or gain is *almost* all about energy in vs energy out
    Well stated! When I start training in winter and have a few pounds to loose, I find that the first week the weight comes off fast, but than it seems to steady itself out. Once I have my power back to where it was last summer (usually about 8 weeks of hard training) I find it hard to eat enough to keep up! Therefore, I concentrate more on making more power than my calories. Yet, I do make sure I eat right (non-processed foods) and get 25% protein and 30-35% Fat in my diet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TapewormWW View Post

    Next point, weight loss or gain is *almost* all about energy in vs energy out (there are factors such as the thermogenic effect of certain foods).
    From a purely physiological level, this is true, but I think the 'psychology' of the body is just as important. I think this is something people just don't consider enough.

    By psychology of the body I mean, if you are burning 3000 calories a day, you could lose weight really well eating a couple big mac meals right before bed, every day, coming in at 2500 calories. Willing to bet people wouldn't feel good, nor could you come close to training at your potential.

    While loosing weight is fundamentally so simple, to put in practice, and combine with training, takes a lot more effort and knowledge. For some people, it's pretty easy, they naturally do it, for others, it can be a steep learning curve.

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    It's great to be able to use high training volume for weight management, but remember that learning to modulate intake to reflect how much volume you are doing (less calories when training less) is important for long-term weigh maintenance.

    It's really no good (physically or mentally) to have to re-lose the weight after each offseason.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CptSydor View Post
    From a purely physiological level, this is true, but I think the 'psychology' of the body is just as important. I think this is something people just don't consider enough.

    By psychology of the body I mean, if you burning 3000 calories a day, you could lose weight really well eating a couple big mac meals right before bed, every day, coming in at 2500 calories. Willing to bet people wouldn't feel good, not could you come close to training at your potential.

    While loosing weight is fundamentally so simple, to put in practice, and combine with training, takes a lot more effort and knowledge. For some people, it's pretty easy, they naturally do it, for others, it can be a steep learning curve.
    The most recent winner of the Vuelta a Espana would disagree with you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by adumb View Post
    your really coming off hard on me for asking a simple question. if this forum was only for super fast guys putting in 15 hours a week i don't think it would see many post.

    i am asking to hear other riders experiences with trying to diet while riding and see if they also felt more tired than usual during workouts until there weight leveled out.
    Yes, dropping weight and working out makes me feel a bit more tired than usual (when I'm not cutting weight). C'est la vie.

    You can use TrainingPeaks.com to track what you eat, or a simple free app from MyFitnessPal.com (I started using that this year). You plug in your current weight and your goal weight, and it suggests how many calories per day you need to eat to reach your goal. You also plug in your exercise each day and it calculates - or automatically adjusts - your daily caloric allowance. Being absolutely honest about how many calories you eat (cups, ounces, portions, etc...) is key to tracking how many calories you really do eat.

    To combat the feeling extra tired while working out syndrome, one should be realistic and target gradual weight loss (perhaps a pound or at most - 1.5 pounds per week) to not be overly exhausted.

    As another poster listed above, the winter hibernation and inability to get as many outside hours on the bike (or in your case running) while also lifting weights can lead to weight gain in the "off season". I'm sure many on this board experience that and then shed the gain once the weather and season changes. I've been fighting it hard this year and luckily, instead of gaining my usual 8-10 pounds, I only gained 5 which I am now shedding with diet and indoor trainer rides (outside when the snow and ice permit it). And yes, I feel more fatigued at the moment, but most of that is from a bit more aggressive and structured base training plan than I may have done in the past at this point of the year (a bit more hours than your 8).

    Trying to get a good night's sleep, going easy on the recovery days, making sure I get a snack between meals, eating well balanced meals, etc...all help you function as best as possible.

    And if you feel really zapped and fatigued one day - listen to your body and take the day off.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bbbrad View Post
    I like this guys approach: Racing Weight by Matt Fitzgerald
    He also has a quickstart & recipe book that are pretty good.
    +2 helped me get over the Cat 2 mid-pack hump.


    Lost 35lbs, I'm around 8% bodyfat, FTP/KG is 4+, and haven't counted a calorie in 2 years.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fat Urkel View Post
    If you're eating clean, you should start lossing the weight by riding more and running less. ..
    ?? Running is a fantastic way to lose weight.
    Stick around if you're housebroken...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crankout View Post
    ?? Running is a fantastic way to lose weight.
    My trainer cut running out of my training plan do the increased levels of Cortisol it was causing. Walking at brisk pace on a incline has shown better weight loss results then running.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post

    Ride 15hrs a week and the weight will take care of itself.
    True that. I go for 50+ hours a month during base (the last few years), and the weight comes off super quick. I get so skinny mid summer, my wife complains about it (she says my arms get skinnier than hers).

    To the OP:
    I'm currently 171, but not too worried about getting back to my typical 160. Staying in pretty good overall shape this winter doing my own crossfit workouts 5-6 days a week. This year I'm targeting Road Nationals (September; right in the town I live in) and cyclocross (which runs to December), so will start serious base training in March.

    As far as diet, I keep it simple. Try to eat sensible portions with as little processed foods as possible. That's it.

    If you have trouble riding the trainer, then doing something like crossfit is great. I find it's better to be fit (not "bike fit") and happy, then "bike fit" and miserable. The only thing with this approach is that you'll not be race ready for spring races, but will be for mid summer races when everyone else is burned out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    The most recent winner of the Vuelta a Espana would disagree with you.
    Give it a shot, let me know how you do.

    If you can make it that way, awesome, my guess is most people can't.

    I'm sure Horner isn't an outlier

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    When I was racing on the road at 141lbs/64kgs, and producing 350w+ for 20min, I was eating everything in sight. I was riding ~20hrs a week while working a normal, 8-5 job.

    I'd eat at the local Mexican joint for lunch, AND dinner, several days a week.

    The problem, at least for me, was getting enough food that I WANTED to eat. 1200cal of bland, boring food that I don't want to eat won't help me. 1200cal of delicious, Mexican goodness? Goes down very easily.

    Now, I'm at work from 6am-6pm, and have less time to train. My job requires me to have a certain amount of upper body strength, as well. There are also less outdoor training opportunities here, requiring more time on the trainer. The weight sticks around longer, and I have to monitor what I eat, and when.
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    While this may have worked for you it may not work for others. Calories in /calories out are not same for everyone due to how body stores nutrients, the timing of nutrients being consumed, and metabolism.


    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    When I was racing on the road at 141lbs/64kgs, and producing 350w+ for 20min, I was eating everything in sight. I was riding ~20hrs a week while working a normal, 8-5 job.

    I'd eat at the local Mexican joint for lunch, AND dinner, several days a week.

    The problem, at least for me, was getting enough food that I WANTED to eat. 1200cal of bland, boring food that I don't want to eat won't help me. 1200cal of delicious, Mexican goodness? Goes down very easily.

    Now, I'm at work from 6am-6pm, and have less time to train. My job requires me to have a certain amount of upper body strength, as well. There are also less outdoor training opportunities here, requiring more time on the trainer. The weight sticks around longer, and I have to monitor what I eat, and when.
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    Quote Originally Posted by irishpitbull View Post
    While this may have worked for you it may not work for others. Calories in /calories out are not same for everyone due to how body stores nutrients, the timing of nutrients being consumed, and metabolism.
    True, but for a given amount of work, people of the same size will burn close to the same amount of calories.

    You don't have too much variance in calorie expenditure from pedaling at XXXw for 3hrs across the board. Before or after that, sure.
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  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by irishpitbull View Post
    +2 helped me get over the Cat 2 mid-pack hump.


    Lost 35lbs, I'm around 8% bodyfat, FTP/KG is 4+, and haven't counted a calorie in 2 years.
    Looks like a great book. I was just reading a bit of the "look inside" at Amazon and found it a bit disheartening to read the results of the study they did with 4 groups of cyclists.

    It was something like group 1 worked on improving their power output only for 4 weeks and did not try to cut weight, group 2 worked on power output and also tried to cut weight at the same time, group 3 worked on cutting weight only, and group 4 trained and ate as usual.

    I would have thought that the group cutting weight and working on increasing their power at the same time would have had the best results. Instead - they saw no improvement. Ouch!!! The group that worked on improving their power only saw a 10% increase, and the group that worked on cutting weight only, saw a 9.3% increase.

    Good news, though...

    It also said the best time to cut weight was in the 4-8 weeks after coming off the down time in post-season (so base training period is when to cut weight, I assume). Once you move into the build phase to train for the actual races, forget about working on cutting weight and focus on increasing power only according to that study. Is that how others interpret it?

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    Around May of 2013 I think I weighed in around 187. I never weighed that much and was pretty shocked considering I was always in good shape and an athlete.

    I now weigh around 162 and pretty tone (5' 8"). I cut out all of the crap and unnecessary food and was on my road and mtn bike two-three times a day. Of course, couldn't ride as much with work and all, but I made sure I was on the bike at least once a day. My goal is 155 by end of March.

    It's now the dead of winter where I live and thankfully I have a job where everyday is sort of a workout. I go to the rec center when I can, spin on the stationary for 35-60 mins a night and workout.

    You can do it, just a mindset.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cusco View Post
    If your primary focus is on racing (which I assume is the case given this is the XC racing thread) this advice is really off the mark. Regularly getting on the bike to spin your legs for an hour will do virtually nothing to improve your racing capabilities. Training for racing is all about intensity and you would be much better off doing hard intervals for an hour every couple / few days than just spinning your legs in front of the TV each day. I would also agree / echo the comments made by spec4life. Given the weather in the Northeast right now it would be difficult to get in 15hrs of training on the bike right now unless you are willing to put in major hours on your trainer (ughh) but there are lots of other things you can do to prepare for this year's racing season. Running, weightlifting, aerobics classes, spin classes etc. For weight loss check out Racing Weight as mentioned above ... it is an interesting / easy read and will give you some ideas on what and what not to do.
    The point is that the spinning in front of the TV or whatever is done in addition to the regular training. Do the X hr ride outside, and the intervals etc but then add the spinning on top of it. It can and does make a difference. It ups the volume without adding to the systemic stress (and often aids recovery). And the mere act of moving ensure more energy is being burnt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by irishpitbull View Post
    While this may have worked for you it may not work for others. Calories in /calories out are not same for everyone due to how body stores nutrients, the timing of nutrients being consumed, and metabolism.
    This is very true but the effect are usually far less pronounced than made out. We're not that efficient a machine and the variance for that efficiency in regards power output doesn't vary hugely (a few percent).

    Humans are not immune to the laws of thermodynamics, unfortunately.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skibum1321 View Post
    That is ridiculously obsessive compulsive. My plan is usually just to try eat fairly clean, control portions and get a lot of exercise. Just eat when you're hungry but don't gouge yourself. It works pretty well even in the winter when I'm only training about 10 hrs/week. I keep a pretty steady weight around 170 lbs at 6'2". Any lower is unmaintainable for me. I also like to have a beer at dinner. It may be empty calories, but I'd rather enjoy life than worry about every little pound. I'm not a pro, so depriving myself isn't necessary.
    Hahah, weighing myself every day is obsessive, yet you have a beer with every meal.

    I say the weighing is thorough tracking of data. Especially when training in the heat, it can become a good measure of hydration levels, at which point I may weigh 5 times a day. I also track waking and pre-bed time HR too. I advocate not to drink alcohol on any sort of regular basis because it's not just the empty calories its the way alcohol can impact hormone production, especially post exercise.

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    I'm not sure what " It's less pronounced than made out" means.

    There is nothing more pronounced than a persons body type. ( Mesomorph, Endomorph, Ectomorph ) A persons body type directly correlates with the way their body stores nutrients which then correlates to the types of training and timing of nutrients.

    Quote Originally Posted by TapewormWW View Post
    This is very true but the effect are usually far less pronounced than made out. We're not that efficient a machine and the variance for that efficiency in regards power output doesn't vary hugely (a few percent).

    Humans are not immune to the laws of thermodynamics, unfortunately.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TapewormWW View Post
    The point is that the spinning in front of the TV or whatever is done in addition to the regular training. Do the X hr ride outside, and the intervals etc but then add the spinning on top of it. It can and does make a difference. It ups the volume without adding to the systemic stress (and often aids recovery). And the mere act of moving ensure more energy is being burnt.
    The point is that for me (and likely a large % of folks on this board) my training time is constrained by family and job responsibilities. Between work, my wife, two teenage daughters and training when I can my schedule is already completely booked. Spending an additional hour each day just spinning on the trainer is simply not an option. Therefore when I do train a leisurely 1 hr. spin would be a complete waste of the precious time I've allocated to cycling and racing. I'm guessing there are lots of other folks who find themselves in a similar situation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by irishpitbull View Post
    I'm not sure what " It's less pronounced than made out" means.

    There is nothing more pronounced than a persons body type. ( Mesomorph, Endomorph, Ectomorph ) A persons body type directly correlates with the way their body stores nutrients which then correlates to the types of training and timing of nutrients.
    The somtatotypes listed above are an artificial construction by a psychologist back in the 60's - and there are NO, none, nil, genetic markers to categorise people as such. They do NOT exist. Yet this junk science still prevails somehow.

    "Less than made out" is in relation to the fact that if you take a random group of people and get them to do 2000kj of work the variance in energy burnt to create that work will not vary that much between individuals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cusco View Post
    The point is that for me (and likely a large % of folks on this board) my training time is constrained by family and job responsibilities. Between work, my wife, two teenage daughters and training when I can my schedule is already completely booked. Spending an additional hour each day just spinning on the trainer is simply not an option. Therefore when I do train a leisurely 1 hr. spin would be a complete waste of the precious time I've allocated to cycling and racing. I'm guessing there are lots of other folks who find themselves in a similar situation.
    Do you watch tv? Maybe a movie with the kids?
    (I've got 3 under 5 years old, in case you were wondering. Amazing the extra work you can get done during another showing of "Tinkerbell's Fairy Rescue".)

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    Somatotypes are a legit science taught is just about every exercise class in the world. It was also created in the 40's. The Russians also used to evaluate Olympic athletes.



    Your 2nd statement loaded and wouldn't be proper test anyway.



    Quote Originally Posted by TapewormWW View Post
    The somtatotypes listed above are an artificial construction by a psychologist back in the 60's - and there are NO, none, nil, genetic markers to categorise people as such. They do NOT exist. Yet this junk science still prevails somehow.

    "Less than made out" is in relation to the fact that if you take a random group of people and get them to do 2000kj of work the variance in energy burnt to create that work will not vary that much between individuals.
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    My take is that it's all about portion control. I'm in my mid-forties, like to have a few beers at night, and train about 6 to 9 hours per week for recreational racing (mid-pack expert). Six feet tall and 160-165 in the winter, 155-160 in the warmer months. Just don't eat heavily except on very rare occasions, snack a lot, but lightly, and keep the intensity high when you ride. I like to run too -- mainly in the winter because I hate cleaning mud and road gunk off my bikes, or getting cold. Running is high-quality because you can ramp up heart rate quickly and keep it high without much mental effort.

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    Quote Originally Posted by irishpitbull View Post
    Somatotypes are a legit science taught is just about every exercise class in the world. It was also created in the 40's. The Russians also used to evaluate Olympic athletes.
    Oops yes, 40s by William Sheldon. Regardless, it's junk science. Through and through. No sport scientist gives it any credence anymore.

    Your 2nd statement loaded and wouldn't be proper test anyway.
    Why not?

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    Quote Originally Posted by adumb View Post
    I have put on a few pounds in the off season and am up to 178 at 5'10. not huge but would like to get it under control. I have started to pay attention to what I eat. I wouldn't say I am on some complicated diet I have been just paying attention to portions and trying to not eat just because I am bored which I do a lot of at work, and cutting out eating when I get home from work.

    in the past two weeks I have lost about 8lbs. I would like to get down to 160 or maybe even 155. my problem is as soon as I seem to cut some calories out within a couple of days I just feel weak. I am not talking about crashes in the middle of the day or stuff like. during my day I feel fine and don't seem to be down on energy, but whenever I do my workouts now I am definitely down enough to notice.

    so my question is how can I lose weight but not lose my fitness in the meantime? Is it a matter of just dealing with it until I get to my goal weight and then my body will adjust and my energy during my workouts will go back up? could i be losing weight to fast. i know 8 pounds in two weeks is probably a little to much but we all know how easy the first couple come off so i assume it will slow down soon.
    Losing 8lbs in two weeks is probably a bit too rapid. When I was working on losing weight last year (down from 176lbs March 2013 back to my normal 149lbs at 6' by December 2013) I was losing roughly around 1lb of weight per week.

    I weighed myself each day with a Withings WS-30 wifi scale to keep track of trends and logged my food intake using the MyFitnessPal app

    Free Calorie Counter, Diet & Exercise Journal | MyFitnessPal.com

    Withings - Wireless Scale WS-30 - Introduction



    Along with losing the power belly and bingo wings I really needed to put some muscle back on (especially cycling specific leg muscle once I started riding again) so I had regular whey protein shakes throughout the day and tried to make sure that I never felt hungry. If I felt hungry I'd have a small snack. For dieting I cut out the sugary sweets and fruit juices that I had normally, reducing the amount of calories I was eating overall, but then splitting the remaining calories out over the entire day instead of having fewer larger meals.

    Although I was dieting overall I didn't do any "bonk training" when I started riding again. As soon as I was able to do longer rides again I was having a meal pre-ride, using carbohydrate energy drink mix in my water bottle and eating solid food (cereal bars) whilst riding also. The aim was to be able to have enough energy to go out and ride hard for as long as needed.

    Along with ride food for energy whilst riding you could try diet pills or a pre-workout (as a powder not a can of Red Bull or similar) immediately pre-ride as they have caffeine in which will give you a short term boost to get you through the training.

    I also have an iron/ vitamin B12 supplement each day which could be helpful to take too.

    Vitabiotics Feroglobin Vitamin and Mineral Capsules 30 Capsules: Amazon.co.uk: Health & Personal Care

    .

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    The best summation of the whole thread is right here:

    Quote Originally Posted by WR304 View Post
    Losing 8lbs in two weeks is probably a bit too rapid.
    Of course you're going to be tired! Eat a bit more, I aim for 1-2 pounds per week. Much more than that and I'm too tired to make the power goals I set.

    And Duke, while you probably need to ride 15+ hours per week to compete with the pros, you definitely don't need to ride 15 hours a week to lose some weight.

  49. #49
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    Many great responses here, but if I could just add one easy thing you can do: figure out what your main weakness is, then cut it out. For example, my weakness is eating after dinner -- I just like to continue grazing. When I cut that out recently, I dropped a couple lbs a week pretty easily over the course of a few weeks. Still got more to go, but I know it'll go as my preseason volume increases.
    My boss's weakness was his one soda per day habit. He cut it out and shed 15 lbs over the course of a few months.
    Best of luck.
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    Lots of interesting thoughts in this thread from nutrition to volume and intensity.

    What I think could help the OP: eat more and more often (eat when your hungery stop when your full), be sure of timing as somebody else had suggested, eating right before runs and rides. If workouts are longer then I say 90 min make sure you have a little snake in there as well.

    Try to "upgrade" your food, this is something I learned form a great natural nutritionist who has worked with some great nutritionist including Brendon Brazier (maker of Vega). What this means is to just try to change what you are eating to make it a little more nutritional. For example I have (most of the time) switched from chips as a snack at night to nut and dried fruit mixes and then my next step will be to "upgrade" to a raw nut and fruit mix and hopefully add in some sea veggies.

    To add to what Cpt said in every one of those meals he laid out; try to make sure you include all macro nutrients (protein, fat, carbs) and make sure there is fibre in there as well.

    LOTS of water!!

    The last thing I will share just because I think it is sooo great is the 80:20 rule which is 80% of what you eat is for your body (all the healthy stuff) and 20% is what ever you want, so that is what you eat that makes you happy or allows you to go out for supper or have that beer at night.
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    Quote Originally Posted by longshanks View Post
    figure out what your main weakness is, then cut it out.
    Darn! My inlaws! They own a (family) brewery. Free delivery to my house. Through my wife. Divorce?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bbbrad View Post
    I like this guys approach: Racing Weight by Matt Fitzgerald
    He also has a quickstart & recipe book that are pretty good.
    Just downloaded this for Kindle after browsing this thread last week. After a chapter and a half, the theme is the fastest athletes are always the skinniest (lowest body fat%). I had been packing around an extra 10 lbs or so for years and it ballooned up to 20+ lbs in the couple years after I became a new dad (twins!). Just riding as much as possible and dabbling with racing wasn't making a dent, so I started calorie counting with the Lose It app. It works great, sounds like the same way as the My Fitness Pal app that others have mentioned. A great app feature is a barcode scanner so you can just scan the UPC code on food packaging and it looks up the calorie info for you. I lost 20 lbs in a few months doing that and was quite pleased, I was at my goal weight for my big A race of the year (50-miler). But I plateaued at my goal weight even though I was still maintaining a calorie deficit in an effort to keep the weight loss going. The app adjusts your calorie budget as the weight comes off, so in theory I should have kept losing weight. I got discouraged with the plateau after a while and figured that I could maintain without tracking. Well, several months later and I was 10 lbs heavier so I got back on the tracking program. My new goal is 5 lbs lighter than my old goal, and I'm plateaued at about 10 lbs to go. It is off season for me, so I'm not working out near as much as I normally would. But it is still frustrating to not be losing any more weight and I'm still 5 lbs over my old goal weight. I'm hoping this book is a good motivator.

    Anyone have advice on how I can easily get my body fat %?

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    cutting weight

    Quote Originally Posted by ewarnerusa View Post
    Anyone have advice on how I can easily get my body fat %?
    This bodyfat percentage calculator gives an estimate of your current bodyfat levels:

    How to Calculate Body Fat Percentages

    This is what it gives for me at the moment, 6ft tall, 148lbs and around 8% bodyfat.



    The Lose It app only seems to be available in the US. What makes me laugh about the My Fitness Pal app and its food listings is how all the types of chocolate, ice cream, buns etc have been carefully listed, no matter how obscure they are.

    When you reach a plateau I think it's a lot like training for fitness. You have to mix it up and try something different. You also have to try and be brutally honest about how much you're eating and how much exercise you're doing. Putting 10lbs back on after just a few months shows that you were maybe eating more than necessary.

    What I find is that when doing more miles I tend to eat more, as having done a long ride I feel that I can reward myself with more food, losing self control. The problem with that is that if you do a long ride at a steady pace you're not actually burning that many calories so you wind up getting fat. Sticking to shorter rides at a higher pace doesn't seem to cause the same feelings of hunger for me, even though you're burning similar amounts of calories, making it easier to stick to a diet.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewarnerusa View Post

    Anyone have advice on how I can easily get my body fat %?
    HIT training, plenty of water, stay away from any white food, and read that book, it's great.
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    FWIW - for body fat measurements the only two vaguely accurate tests are immersion (or bodypod) and dexascan. And even then there's a margin or error. Those scales you stand on or calipers etc are grossly, grossly inaccurate.

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    WR304,
    Thanks for the link, I'll try it out at home when I have access to a ruler ribbon.
    The calorie counting apps definitely only work well if you're honest about how much you're eating. I feel like I am, and I got some good results from using it. Once I stopped, I know I ate more and therefore gained weight back. My breakfast and lunch routines were pretty constant, but BIG dinners and my nemesis which is snacking/grazing right up until bedtime.
    I went 10 months without logging and that's when the 10 lbs snuck back on! Actually only during the last part of those months (fall/early winter) is when the weight really started to come back. I've got a thick build and big legs, so I carry quite a bit of mass! I'm 5'10" and right now I'm at 190 lbs. My old goal weight was 185 lbs and I was plateaued at about 183 lbs for a few months when I got tired of trying to get lower. Like you said, I think I really needed to try something different. But I didn't. My new goal is 180 lbs, but 175 lbs sure sounds nice.

    EDIT: The Lose It app is also a pretty good webpage. I don't know if the app is US only, I wouldn't have though it was.
    Lose It! - Succeed at weight loss with Lose It!
    Lose It! - Succeed at weight loss with Lose It!

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    Quote Originally Posted by TapewormWW View Post
    FWIW - for body fat measurements the only two vaguely accurate tests are immersion (or bodypod) and dexascan. And even then there's a margin or error. Those scales you stand on or calipers etc are grossly, grossly inaccurate.
    That is what I've gathered, but the Racing Weight: How to Get Lean for Peak Performance (The Racing Weight Series): Matt Fitzgerald bases your target weight on a formula with body fat %. So I'm trying to come up with something. I just had a health screening with work and had all kinds of good metrics done, but not body fat %.

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    cutting weight

    I started the Racing Weight Quick Start program last week & so far, so good. Down 2lbs & .5% point body fat which will put me right where I intend to be if the trend continues.

    Briefly, my story is that at the end of the 90's, I was up to 205 on a 5'5" body -not a good look! I did a super low carb diet & a started moving about again. I lost about 25lbs pretty quick & eventually got to 175. After that I started riding & got as low as 140 but went up to as much as 165 due to a year or 2 of partying after a divorce. Over the past 2 years, I'm between 145 & 155. Thing is I had maintained a super low 900 to 1200 calorie, mostly protein diet. This winter I wasn't able to lose weight so I did some research & found out that my body has been in starvation mode for a very long time. This all led me to Racing Weight. I'm eating more than I have in years & feel great. It's going to be really interesting to see how I ride when properly fueled.

    To TapewormWW's point about the inaccuracy of bf% measurement: it's not so much about the actual number rather, it's being able to measure the trend of loss or gain.

  59. #59
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    Redwarrior, what are you using for measuring body fat %? Good point on not being too concerned with the accuracy, just the ability to monitor trends.
    I did the measurements from the link WR304 posted and it said I am 21% body fat. Seems about right to me based on the picture scale. The book puts my goal weight at around 173 lb.

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    I'm using an "EatSmart Precision GetFit Digital Body Fat Scale". It has both a "normal" & "athlete" mode. It tells me that I'm 16.5% in normal & 11.5% in athlete. I tend to think I'm around 16.5 though, & I carry most of that right around my midsection. The scale is very consistent in both weight & body fat %

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    Quote Originally Posted by quax View Post
    Darn! My inlaws! They own a (family) brewery. Free delivery to my house. Through my wife. Divorce?
    Wife swap?

    Lol. Gawdamn, dude, that's awesome. I'd be in so much trouble.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Collins View Post
    I'm sure you'll get more rigorous replies about this, but I'll give you my remedy for the same issue... First, it's winter, and I'm always ~10 heavier now than 2-3 weeks into riding outside (starting ~March 10); some of this is fat, some is extra upper-body muscle from the gym. Leading up to those first weeks of riding outside (say, the 2 weeks or so before starting outdoor "training"), I hit the trainer in the morning, 4 times a week, doing a solid hour of light tempo work, making sure to stay hydrated; I take a double-shot of espresso beforehand. Then I eat a breakfast of 1 cup no-fat yogurt, ~1/2 cut raw oatmeal, and some almonds. It's filling, but not fattening. Then I eat sensible lunches and dinners, usually chicken breasts and quinoa and greens. Then I do my usual gauntlet of afternoon training, but interval lifting once a week, just like in season. For me, this gets the fat off pretty fast; then, during the first 2-3 weeks of riding outside, I keep the same diet, and the fat stays gone, often goes away more -- depending on beer intake and occasional carnitas festivals. Food's too good to sacrifice for a few shaved seconds.

    BTW: I'm at 169 now; I'll be 155 or less by the end of March, easy.

    Hope this helps.
    Sounds like a good steady plan, I may have to give the eating plan a shot..I'm currently doing trainer 3 days a week and in about 2 more weeks I'll have to start throwing runs and swims into the mix for a few tri's coming up this spring and summer. But same weight here.. hovering around 169-171.. it'd be great to get down to 155!

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    I was in the same boat as you. Fortunately, I took up a bike to work commute challenge starting last November. With the mild weather, I've only driven to work <10 days since then. I've built a great base with under 10 hours per week and one longer ride on the weekends. I've lost eight pounds, down to 168. 5' 9", Cat 2, 52. First race on 2-8, 7th place. Eating better, but not counting calories. Not losing muscle mass. I attribute the bulk of my improvement on better recovery beers. The Mtbr Best Beer Guide | Mountain Bike Review
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  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by quax View Post
    Darn! My inlaws! They own a (family) brewery.
    Now I'm interested. What brewery? Might have to trade you for some Pliny.
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    Ouf.
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    for the record it wasn't my plan to drop 8lbs in two weeks. I just started paying attention to what I was eating and that is what happened. I am in week three and still am at the 8lbs. we all know when you start a diet the first 5 or so pounds comes off super easy.

    wr304 thanks for the informative post like usual, you should be on the payroll for this site with all the good stuff you post.

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    Simple:

    Eat less, burn more and you will lose weight.

    The Hard Part:

    Deciding how quickly you want to lose weight vs. how unhappy and tired you can handle being.

    There's no magic bullet. Plus it always seems to come off the quickest when you first start and gets harder the fitter you become. The body just gets more efficient and seems to use less energy for a given amount of work.

    Try changing your workout to shock the system. If you run, swim. If you swim, try running. etc.

    I really believe in the whole feeding your body while you workout and right after...helps to keep you from crashing and eating too much later.

    Keep strong and don't give up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by irishpitbull View Post
    My trainer cut running out of my training plan do the increased levels of Cortisol it was causing. Walking at brisk pace on a incline has shown better weight loss results then running.
    That surprises me. Everyone that I know who runs or has taken it up as part of an overall game plan has lost weight.
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    Quote Originally Posted by skibum1321 View Post
    If you're in a snowy part of the country, xc skiing is one of the best activities you can do for bike racing.
    Not necessarily. While it keeps you fit and keeps the metabolism working, it serves to make you a better xc skier, not a better biker. It's a very different muscle set.
    Stick around if you're housebroken...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crankout View Post
    It's a very different muscle set.
    That's not always a bad thing. Working on neglected muscles and balancing out is a GOOD thing. Powerlifters don't do JUST squat, bench, and deadlift to get strong in those lifts. They do main lifts but they also do assistance exercises which aid greatly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kawigreen99 View Post
    That's not always a bad thing. Working on neglected muscles and balancing out is a GOOD thing. Powerlifters don't do JUST squat, bench, and deadlift to get strong in those lifts. They do main lifts but they also do assistance exercises which aid greatly.
    Certainly balancing out the full body make sense, but that's not what makes one a better competitor in the end. I do all kinds of things this time of year to prep for racing (ex. yoga, lifting, strength & conditioning, core, running, skiing) but when it comes down to it, time spent wisely on the bike is the key to success.
    Stick around if you're housebroken...

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    I'm in the same boat. For pretty much all of 2013 I was 175 pounds at 5' 10". Took November and December off from "training" and told myself that I would only allow myself to get up to 180 by Jan 1st and only do activities if I felt like it. I set up a plan to get to 165 by mid April. Well I blew through that and was 184 on Jan 1st and went right on up to 187 a couple weeks ago. I'm down to 184 now with a little work and I just need to focus to get to 165.

    What works for me is portion control (not always eating seconds), stop drinking soda of any kind, stop opening a bag of chips and eating the whole damn thing, laying off the free snacks at work, limit myself to less than one beer a night, and drinking lots of water. If I can do this it all works out pretty good for me and the weight drops. I usually then get cocky and think that I can eat whatever I want and the weight comes back.

    For the most part, losing weight is extremely simple. It's even more simple than calories in and calories out. If you just don't eat, you will lose weight. There are plenty nonathletic/unfit people who are skinny. However, if you want to be fit/fast/athletic you have to play the game of losing weight while maintaining high energy levels.

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    cutting weight

    I was reading up on ways of lowering blood pressure and this article came up in google at the same time:

    Taurine Prevents Obesity
    "One of the ways taurine can help improve overall health is by fighting obesity. Obesity impacts every area of the body, especially because of the inflammation-generating abdominal fat stores. Human studies show that 3 grams per day of taurine for 7 weeks reduced body weight significantly in a group of overweight or obese (but not-yet-diabetic) adults.14 Subjects saw significant declines in their serum triglycerides and “atherogenic index,” a ratio of multiple cholesterol components that predicts atherosclerosis risk.

    Various animal studies support the anti-obesity and lipid-lowering capabilities of taurine, both alone and combined with other natural products.15,16 These studies highlight taurine’s ability to improve glucose tolerance in obese animals, an important benefit given how many overweight people go on to develop diabetes.17,18

    Perhaps most alarming, animal research reveals that obesity itself causes a decline in plasma taurine levels, which, in a vicious cycle, further promotes obesity.19 The observed decline in taurine levels was seen in mouse models of both genetic obesity and diet-induced obesity. Fortunately, in the same study, taurine supplementation interrupted the cycle, helping to prevent obesity and its consequences.19 "
    Life Extension Magazine

    http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2013/...Taurine_01.htm

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    cutting weight

    I was 199.5lbs in early December and weighed in at 179.6 last night, wahoo! Eating regular meals but very small portions keeps my appetite at bay during the day. I reward myself with a good dinner and offset it by riding in the evening.

  75. #75
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    Understand the difference between "head hunger" and "belly hunger". Only eat when you are hungry. Also, adjust portions so that you become hungry around the same breakfast and lunch and dinner times predictably each day. Drink water, not sugar drinks.

    Head hunger is what preys on the weak. It gets to all of us...just some of us fall prey to it much more easily. To get down to race weight, you have to be BOTH mentally strong and physically strong. It ain't for everyone.

    Another thing...too many guys I know will mindlessly make a powder sports drink for EVERY ride no matter how long it may be. They are NOT necessary unless you are riding into the 1.5 hour + range. For example, if you are just doing a 1 hour high intensity ride then just using water is a good way to cut out unnecessary calories.

    Some will make sacrifices and some simply will not.

    FWIW. I am 5'10" and have raced from 145 to 160 lbs. I feel my best around 150 lbs.

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    ^ +1

    Another pithy proverb is: if you buy it, you'll eat it, ie: you may be saving that bag of choc bars for a special occasion, but if it is there it will get eaten. Don't buy it and you want be tempted.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TapewormWW View Post
    ^ +1

    Another pithy proverb is: if you buy it, you'll eat it, ie: you may be saving that bag of choc bars for a special occasion, but if it is there it will get eaten. Don't buy it and you want be tempted.
    Definately agree. I haven't even thought about junk food in three weeks cause the house has been free of it. Last night wife got me a heart with about 1200 calories worth of twix In it. I am weak and ate them all. If I only splurge every three weeks I should still be way ahead

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by redwarrior View Post
    I'm using an "EatSmart Precision GetFit Digital Body Fat Scale". It has both a "normal" & "athlete" mode. It tells me that I'm 16.5% in normal & 11.5% in athlete. I tend to think I'm around 16.5 though, & I carry most of that right around my midsection. The scale is very consistent in both weight & body fat %
    I just got a Health O Meter bfm081-63 and it said I'm in the 16%BF range in athlete mode and 25%BF in normal mode. That's quite a spread! I think I'm closer to the higher reading than the lower reading. But it allows for setting up multiple profiles so I'll track my progress using both modes.

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by chomxxo View Post
    I was 199.5lbs in early December and weighed in at 179.6 last night, wahoo! Eating regular meals but very small portions keeps my appetite at bay during the day. I reward myself with a good dinner and offset it by riding in the evening.
    Congrats on the weight drop since December!!! That will be a lot easier going up the hills for sure!

    I finished reading the Racing Weight book by Matt Fitzgerald which I ordered thanks to it being mentioned on this thread. Quite an eye-opening book.

    I've trimmed down about 7 pounds since January 6 to 180.2 as of this morning (usually have raced at 180-185 the past few years), but was never really sure where my ideal racing weight is. I think it's a bit lower than where I am now based on the weight I carried when I used to run. The book is very instructional and hopefully will help me get in the ballpark for my target weight and "ideal racing weight".

    I seem to be having difficulty getting enough carbs eaten every day and need to work on that to fuel the training.

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewarnerusa View Post
    I just got a Health O Meter bfm081-63 and it said I'm in the 16%BF range in athlete mode and 25%BF in normal mode. That's quite a spread! I think I'm closer to the higher reading than the lower reading. But it allows for setting up multiple profiles so I'll track my progress using both modes.
    It's more about the trend, I think. I've been watching the "normal" reading. I'm down about 4.5lbs & a full percentage point on the body fat reading.

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    Thanks. To be honest I got a little fat during the holidays. My normal race weight is 180-185lbs. I'm trying to stay between 175-180 this year, which at 6'4" is about as lean as I can get. Every pound seems to be exponentially harder to lose the lower you go.

    I agree it's been hard fueling workouts while losing weight. I have been going with 100 calories/bottle/hour on rides over 2 hours and just water on shorter rides.




    Quote Originally Posted by BruceBrown View Post
    Congrats on the weight drop since December!!! That will be a lot easier going up the hills for sure!

    I finished reading the Racing Weight book by Matt Fitzgerald which I ordered thanks to it being mentioned on this thread. Quite an eye-opening book.

    I've trimmed down about 7 pounds since January 6 to 180.2 as of this morning (usually have raced at 180-185 the past few years), but was never really sure where my ideal racing weight is. I think it's a bit lower than where I am now based on the weight I carried when I used to run. The book is very instructional and hopefully will help me get in the ballpark for my target weight and "ideal racing weight".

    I seem to be having difficulty getting enough carbs eaten every day and need to work on that to fuel the training.

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    Re: cutting weight

    Quote Originally Posted by redwarrior View Post
    It's more about the trend, I think. I've been watching the "normal" reading. I'm down about 4.5lbs & a full percentage point on the body fat reading.
    Agreed about the trend. Good job getting your numbers down! I just finished the "Racing Weight" book and it has definitely affected my mindset. I'm focusing on nutrient timing and trying to ignore the head hunger. My diet isn't always high quality, but I feel like it is usually pretty good. Even though I've been doing well with a calorie budget, I've been plateaued at just under 190 lbs for the last month. Need more exercise!

    Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk

  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by BruceBrown View Post
    Congrats on the weight drop since December!!! That will be a lot easier going up the hills for sure!

    I finished reading the Racing Weight book by Matt Fitzgerald which I ordered thanks to it being mentioned on this thread. Quite an eye-opening book.

    I've trimmed down about 7 pounds since January 6 to 180.2 as of this morning (usually have raced at 180-185 the past few years), but was never really sure where my ideal racing weight is. I think it's a bit lower than where I am now based on the weight I carried when I used to run. The book is very instructional and hopefully will help me get in the ballpark for my target weight and "ideal racing weight".

    I seem to be having difficulty getting enough carbs eaten every day and need to work on that to fuel the training.

    I'm still on the quickstart portion (3 weeks so far) & have lost 4.5lbs & a full percentage point of BF. I have 3 more weeks to go & then I'll transition over to the normal racing weight program. It should coincide with some warmer weather & I can get a lot more time riding outside. The trainer is a soul sucking torture device! I'll have 5 weeks before Singlespeedapalooza (which is always a blast!) & then I'll begin to focus on endurance for the Hampshire 100 & D2R2 in August.

  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewarnerusa View Post
    Agreed about the trend. Good job getting your numbers down! I just finished the "Racing Weight" book and it has definitely affected my mindset. I'm focusing on nutrient timing and trying to ignore the head hunger. My diet isn't always high quality, but I feel like it is usually pretty good. Even though I've been doing well with a calorie budget, I've been plateaued at just under 190 lbs for the last month. Need more exercise!

    Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
    Plateau'ing is the worst! It can be so demoralizing...

  85. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by chomxxo View Post
    Thanks. To be honest I got a little fat during the holidays. My normal race weight is 180-185lbs. I'm trying to stay between 175-180 this year, which at 6'4" is about as lean as I can get. Every pound seems to be exponentially harder to lose the lower you go.

    I agree it's been hard fueling workouts while losing weight. I have been going with 100 calories/bottle/hour on rides over 2 hours and just water on shorter rides.
    I remember reading that the typical Tour rider weight is about 2lbs per inch tall. So, at 6'4", you would be Schlek-like and weigh a whopping 152 lbs!

  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by rydbyk View Post
    I remember reading that the typical Tour rider weight is about 2lbs per inch tall. So, at 6'4", you would be Schlek-like and weigh a whopping 152 lbs!
    BMI gets skewed by height a bit. However Tour champ Bradley Wiggins (6'3") managed to get down to a sickening 155lbs for his victory. As a track star he was normally 170lbs. TT specialist Miguel Indurain won the TDF 5 times at 6'2", 170lbs.

    Add about 15lbs per inch and you get Ryan Trebon (6'5") and Barry Wicks (6'4") at 175lbs. By contrast young Tour De Qatar winner and flatland sprinter Taylor Phinney is 6'5", 190lbs.

    There wouldn't be so many successful tall cyclists if there weren't some advantage to it. Big guys like Tom Boonen (6'4", 180lbs) can put out enormous watts that keep their watts/kg at an elite level.

  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by chomxxo View Post
    Thanks. To be honest I got a little fat during the holidays. My normal race weight is 180-185lbs. I'm trying to stay between 175-180 this year, which at 6'4" is about as lean as I can get. Every pound seems to be exponentially harder to lose the lower you go.

    I agree it's been hard fueling workouts while losing weight. I have been going with 100 calories/bottle/hour on rides over 2 hours and just water on shorter rides.
    We're the same height and dealing with more or less the same issue - up against guys that weigh a lot less. I was targeting 175 as a likely target to hit this year. Like you, I can probably only trim so much before there's nothing left to trim. I do, however, have some visceral fat that still needs to go. Looks like at least 5 more pounds worth when looking in the mirror that aren't really contributing anything to my looks or needs. I'm hoping to knock that out between now and the end of March when base training is finished.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BruceBrown View Post
    We're the same height and dealing with more or less the same issue - up against guys that weigh a lot less. I was targeting 175 as a likely target to hit this year. Like you, I can probably only trim so much before there's nothing left to trim. I do, however, have some visceral fat that still needs to go. Looks like at least 5 more pounds worth when looking in the mirror that aren't really contributing anything to my looks or needs. I'm hoping to knock that out between now and the end of March when base training is finished.
    Same boat here - 6'4" and my body likes to be 180#. I have gotten down to 170# a few years ago, but had to really had to work at it - took me 10 weeks to go from 175# to 170# (eating right and training hard), where as going from 180# to 175# can happen in 2 weeks when I am training hard and kind-of eating right.

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    cutting weight

    Quote Originally Posted by mooddude View Post
    Same boat here - 6'4" and my body likes to be 180#. I have gotten down to 170# a few years ago, but had to really had to work at it - took me 10 weeks to go from 175# to 170# (eating right and training hard), where as going from 180# to 175# can happen in 2 weeks when I am training hard and kind-of eating right.
    That's slim enough to compete. Taylor Phinney's peak wattage is reportedly 2000w! I'm more of an FTP guy myself but the raw power numbers for tall guys, if lean, can be very impressive. Kulhavy is rumored to be at 6w/kg and you can see how he destroys Schurter with select attacks uphill.

  90. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by mooddude View Post
    Same boat here - 6'4" and my body likes to be 180#. I have gotten down to 170# a few years ago, but had to really had to work at it - took me 10 weeks to go from 175# to 170# (eating right and training hard), where as going from 180# to 175# can happen in 2 weeks when I am training hard and kind-of eating right.
    Of course we all have our own unique 6'4" frames, but have you personally found that #180 is your ideal racing weight? Or is 175? I'm curious because my body tends to gravitate to that weight (180) during the racing season without really "trying" to aim it there.

    I used to run marathons in the 165-170 range, but dang - that's an entirely different training regimen and experience than shorter XC mountain bike racing. A lot less upper body shape probably accounted for a good part of that weight difference over now.

  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by chomxxo View Post
    That's slim enough to compete. Taylor Phinney's peak wattage is reportedly 2000w! I'm more of an FTP guy myself but the raw power numbers for tall guys, if lean, can be very impressive. Kulhavy is rumored to be at 6w/kg and you can see how he destroys Schurter with select attacks uphill.
    The Schleck brothers are about 6'1" and raced at 150 pounds each. Not sure if either of them ever did any mountain bike racing, but needless to say - they are skinny up top.

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/7166535@N05/12369682985/" title="A by BBcamerata, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2882/12369682985_2eca9e512c.jpg" width="455" height="426" alt="A"></a>

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    cutting weight

    Depends on how much climbing you do. Most of the best regional road Cat 1s around here look like gorillas. The Schlecks are giving up 3" to us which can be as much as 15 lbs per inch. So that works out. I'm pretty bony myself.

    Quote Originally Posted by BruceBrown View Post
    The Schleck brothers are about 6'1" and raced at 150 pounds each. Not sure if either of them ever did any mountain bike racing, but needless to say - they are skinny up top.

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/7166535@N05/12369682985/" title="A by BBcamerata, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2882/12369682985_2eca9e512c.jpg" width="455" height="426" alt="A"></a>

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    Schleck's legs look photoshopped. Crazy skinny!

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    217 down to 197 in about two years since quitting drinking. I am pretty weak about being "Head Hungry" but the trend is steadily downward. I lifted weights for close to 10 years steady, and have a lot of extra muscle mass in my upper body still that I wish would hurry up and go away. I am 5-11. Drink water only. Got The Feed Zone cookbook and been doing a lot of rice and vegetables. Pretty much vegetarian at this point, and I feel a lot better since that change.

  95. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by rydbyk View Post
    Schleck's legs look photoshopped. Crazy skinny!
    Some of those riders get pretty ugly/skinny during the grand tours....

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/7166535@N05/12369690363/" title="skeletor1 by BBcamerata, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7355/12369690363_54e53c3d5b.jpg" width="400" height="493" alt="skeletor1"></a>

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/7166535@N05/12375115284/" title="lanceSlim by BBcamerata, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7342/12375115284_ea71a0e6a9.jpg" width="500" height="302" alt="lanceSlim"></a>

    The same is true for world class pro marathoners...

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/7166535@N05/12369980034/" title="sing06-mar-leaders by BBcamerata, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7304/12369980034_975a68ee49.jpg" width="500" height="326" alt="sing06-mar-leaders"></a>

    It's obvious in all of these photos how the endurance athlete through training allowed the upper body muscle to be "consumed" as fuel to get the weight down. The same is used by professional ballerinas as it is imperative to weight between 85-105 to be a prima ballerina if you want to work for a living. Any heavier than that and the male dancers can't do the lifts safely.

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/7166535@N05/12376139013/" title="balletsomova by BBcamerata, on Flickr"><img src="https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5533/12376139013_fbd210319f.jpg" width="272" height="500" alt="balletsomova"></a>

    Not sure we amateurs are striving to be so "skinny". At least I know I'm not, but those who do it for a living certainly have shown what it takes to get the weight down to improve their power/weight ratio.

  96. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by rydbyk View Post
    Schleck's legs look photoshopped. Crazy skinny!
    I would never want to look like that. My wife would send me packing and rightly so!

    I'm not so sure that the pro's should be the ultimate benchmark for us mortals.
    Stick around if you're housebroken...

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    @ Bruce: Yeh, Rasmussen seems to pop up all the time when the talk about race weight starts. Yikes!

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    Wiggins and Froome are at least as skinny as Rasmussen was, just taller. 170lbs on a 6'6" guy looks about the same (Paris-Roubaix winner Johann Vansummeren).



    Most World Cup guys are a little heavier, but not much. Changes of direction and steep climbs in mountain bike racing favor weight weenies too. Like I said I see a lot of big muscular guys in top-level amateur road racing. However they don't have big mountain climbs around here and so it's a sprinter's league. Also road racing has more momentum, less starts and stops and changes in direction than XC.

  99. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by chomxxo View Post
    Wiggins and Froome are at least as skinny as Rasmussen was, just taller. 170lbs on a 6'6" guy looks about the same (Paris-Roubaix winner Johann Vansummeren).

    Most World Cup guys are a little heavier, but not much. Changes of direction and steep climbs in mountain bike racing favor weight weenies too. Like I said I see a lot of big muscular guys in top-level amateur road racing. However they don't have big mountain climbs around here and so it's a sprinter's league. Also road racing has more momentum, less starts and stops and changes in direction than XC.
    Right, it's mainly the "climbers" in pro cycling that have the super lean and mean look for the grand tours. Not to mention, I can't even imagine what it would be like to ride at 25 mph for hours at time, and hop back on the bike and do it again day after day for three weeks.

    Chomxxo - you bring up a good point and it is also mentioned in the Fitgerald book Racing Weight. At what point do we start to see diminishing returns with regard to weight loss. If one is racing mountain bikes in an area that really doesn't have much in the way of climbing, but it is a relatively flat course with short, steep power ups here and there, it probably isn't that big of a deal compared to courses where the climbs start to add up and are a bit longer (not to mention altitude with regard to the mountain states).

    I know it's easier going up the hill for me at 180 than it was at 190, 195, 200, etc... . Not sure if the same improvement would be felt at 175 or 170, but I've not had an opportunity to try that out before...

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    Quote Originally Posted by BruceBrown View Post
    Of course we all have our own unique 6'4" frames, but have you personally found that #180 is your ideal racing weight? Or is 175? I'm curious because my body tends to gravitate to that weight (180) during the racing season without really "trying" to aim it there.

    I used to run marathons in the 165-170 range, but dang - that's an entirely different training regimen and experience than shorter XC mountain bike racing. A lot less upper body shape probably accounted for a good part of that weight difference over now.
    My W/kg is at it highest when I am around 180-185#, yet I am faster on the mountain bike when I am at 175# since I can corner at faster speeds and my W/kg isn't that much less. 170# was painful and I didn't maintain it long enough to see if there was a difference, since my wife hated that we couldn't go out an eat ever or have a glass of wine on Friday night.

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