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Thread: cutting weight

  1. #1
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    cutting weight

    I have put on a few pounds in the off season and am up to 178 at 5'10. not huge but would like to get it under control. I have started to pay attention to what I eat. I wouldn't say I am on some complicated diet I have been just paying attention to portions and trying to not eat just because I am bored which I do a lot of at work, and cutting out eating when I get home from work.

    in the past two weeks I have lost about 8lbs. I would like to get down to 160 or maybe even 155. my problem is as soon as I seem to cut some calories out within a couple of days I just feel weak. I am not talking about crashes in the middle of the day or stuff like. during my day I feel fine and don't seem to be down on energy, but whenever I do my workouts now I am definitely down enough to notice.

    so my question is how can I lose weight but not lose my fitness in the meantime? Is it a matter of just dealing with it until I get to my goal weight and then my body will adjust and my energy during my workouts will go back up? could i be losing weight to fast. i know 8 pounds in two weeks is probably a little to much but we all know how easy the first couple come off so i assume it will slow down soon.

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    I like this guys approach: Racing Weight by Matt Fitzgerald
    He also has a quickstart & recipe book that are pretty good.

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    I'm sure you'll get more rigorous replies about this, but I'll give you my remedy for the same issue... First, it's winter, and I'm always ~10 heavier now than 2-3 weeks into riding outside (starting ~March 10); some of this is fat, some is extra upper-body muscle from the gym. Leading up to those first weeks of riding outside (say, the 2 weeks or so before starting outdoor "training"), I hit the trainer in the morning, 4 times a week, doing a solid hour of light tempo work, making sure to stay hydrated; I take a double-shot of espresso beforehand. Then I eat a breakfast of 1 cup no-fat yogurt, ~1/2 cut raw oatmeal, and some almonds. It's filling, but not fattening. Then I eat sensible lunches and dinners, usually chicken breasts and quinoa and greens. Then I do my usual gauntlet of afternoon training, but interval lifting once a week, just like in season. For me, this gets the fat off pretty fast; then, during the first 2-3 weeks of riding outside, I keep the same diet, and the fat stays gone, often goes away more -- depending on beer intake and occasional carnitas festivals. Food's too good to sacrifice for a few shaved seconds.

    BTW: I'm at 169 now; I'll be 155 or less by the end of March, easy.

    Hope this helps.

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    One question for you:

    How many hours a week are you riding?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    One question for you:

    How many hours a week are you riding?
    4 hours riding and 4 hours running.

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    Quote Originally Posted by adumb View Post
    4 hours riding and 4 hours running.
    That could be part of the answer.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    That could be part of the answer.
    you must be trolling. surely you don't think it takes more than 8 hours a week of working out along with a nice diet plan to lose weight.

    what do you think i should be doing?

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    First and foremost, this is the XC Racing and Training forum.

    When considering your question, I assumed you have/had an interest in bicycle racing.

    If that's the case, yes, you should consider upping your hours on the bike, if possible.

    Ride 15hrs a week and the weight will take care of itself.
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    your really coming off hard on me for asking a simple question. if this forum was only for super fast guys putting in 15 hours a week i don't think it would see many post.

    i am asking to hear other riders experiences with trying to diet while riding and see if they also felt more tired than usual during workouts until there weight leveled out.

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    I Feel your pain. I keep track of my calories and workouts on Training Peaks software. I have a lot more weight to lose then you and I'm in my mid 40's so it comes off slow even with a lot of riding. I do notice when I up the intensity and volume I have to eat a little more or my workouts suffer. For instance when I have a few back to back days where I'm at a -800 on my calories (in other words I have burned 800 more calories then I ate) I start to pay for it. One thing that helps me is to make sure I get some carbs before/during/and right after my workouts. I can eat less and still train hard if I do this right. That should help you. Then the rest of the day you can cut calories. Make sure on rest days to not eat many carbs, and don't snack after dinner. You can get away with eating less when you fuel up well before/during/after exercise. I think if you do that you'll feel better. Let me know how it works out for you.

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    le duke your usually good for something helpful, but in this case your just being... well unreasonable. It doesnt take 15 hours a week to get in good shape, just the right plan. Will riding 15 hours get you in shape? sure. However, a plan such as the time crunched cyclist shows you can reach "raceable" shape in far fewer hours.

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    Concur with Le Duke, upping time riding will help.

    Consider: just sitting on a stationary bike or erg in front of the tv for just 1 hr a day, gently spinning the legs, for every day in a year equates to 365hrs of additional training. Is that a significant amount of training? Hell yes. Two types of people, those who watch more than 1hr of tv a day and liars.

    Next point, weight loss or gain is *almost* all about energy in vs energy out (there are factors such as the thermogenic effect of certain foods).

    It is best to keep track of everything that goes into the body and as much as possible what goes out. Weight yourself 2-3 times a day and then average over the week to get an indication of whether weight is actually changing (bodyweight can vary up to 2-3kgs a day through hydration and faecal matter alone).

    Two throw-away points, but probably very crucial, are: get more sleep and don't drink any calories (that goes doubly-so for alcohol). Do these two and watch what happens.

    And ride your bike more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TapewormWW View Post
    Weight yourself 2-3 times a day and then average over the week to get an indication of whether weight is actually changing (bodyweight can vary up to 2-3kgs a day through hydration and faecal matter alone).
    That is ridiculously obsessive compulsive. My plan is usually just to try eat fairly clean, control portions and get a lot of exercise. Just eat when you're hungry but don't gouge yourself. It works pretty well even in the winter when I'm only training about 10 hrs/week. I keep a pretty steady weight around 170 lbs at 6'2". Any lower is unmaintainable for me. I also like to have a beer at dinner. It may be empty calories, but I'd rather enjoy life than worry about every little pound. I'm not a pro, so depriving myself isn't necessary.

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    Quote Originally Posted by adumb View Post
    your really coming off hard on me for asking a simple question. if this forum was only for super fast guys putting in 15 hours a week i don't think it would see many post.

    i am asking to hear other riders experiences with trying to diet while riding and see if they also felt more tired than usual during workouts until there weight leveled out.


    Don't get whipped up. It just seemed strange when you posted that you run 5 hours a week. Most XC racers don't run as it doesn't contribute to becoming a faster rider - unless they do it as cross training once a week as a substitute for riding, but most only cross-train for a short time (several weeks).

    If you're eating clean, you should start lossing the weight by riding more and running less. I went from 175lbs to 155lbs in 3 months by upping my riding to 16h a week. No diet change really. I was eating the same kinds of foods and not really monitoring my cal intake but not trying to over do it too much either..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fat Urkel View Post
    Don't get whipped up. It just seemed strange when you posted that you run 5 hours a week. Most XC racers don't run as it doesn't contribute to becoming a faster rider - unless they do it as cross training once a week as a substitute for riding, but most only cross-train for a short time (several weeks).

    If you're eating clean, you should start lossing the weight by riding more and running less. I went from 175lbs to 155lbs in 3 months by upping my riding to 16h a week. No diet change really. I was eating the same kinds of foods and not really monitoring my cal intake but not trying to over do it too much either..
    If I were to guess, he's probably a triathlete. Running is actually really good for keeping the weight off as well. Replacing 5 hrs of running w/ 5 hrs of riding won't do much in terms of burning more calories. Obviously it will make you a better rider though.

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    Tips

    The biggest tip I can give you is to not eat 4 hours before bed time. The way I do this is to know when im going to go to sleep and plan accordingly. If I know i need to eat more, then i do. Even it if means eating until im very full.

    Also it's easy to cut some cal's but switching out milk or calorie drinks with straight water for a few weeks. You can easily cut sever 100 cals just by taking in water only

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    I was lucky in that my partner last year thought it would be interesting to work with a top level sports nutritionist for a month. I got the trickle down effect from that.

    Best advice I learned from that was to eat consistently throughout the day and make sure you getting a good, appropriate balance of macro-nutrients. This will ensure your body is getting what it needs to perform. I think many people when loosing weight try more of the feast and famine routine.

    A daily schedule might be.

    Breakfast (500 calories)
    Morning Snack (250 calories)
    Lunch (500 calories)
    Afternoon snack (250 calories)
    Dinner (500 calories)
    Evening snack (150 calories)

    That's 2150 calories, which is good baseline for the daily (not exercising) lifestyle of a 160-170 lb guy.

    Throwing in exercising. During base training, add in 100 calories during ride if over an hour. Always have 100-300 calories for immediately post work out. This is a big factor. Replenish so you are ready to go again, which includes on the bike.

    If you do a 1.5 hour base ride, burning say 750 calories, but you took in 100 during the ride, 150 post ride, you are still net -500 per day and loosing 1lb per week.

    If I follow a routine like this, I feel great. This includes during race season, though numbers are slightly modified. I wish I was better at doing all this consistently.

    Obviously, during winter base training, 1lb per week is a good goal, but I've always struggled with loosing weight during build periods or race season, though I managed to loose a little last summer doing this (though only on a 1/2 lb per week basis, which I think is more realistic for higher intensity periods where you can't rely as much on aerobic fat burning).

    So that's my experience. Lots of food, though in smaller portions and a good balance of macro-nutrients (AKA enough carbs).

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    Quote Originally Posted by TapewormWW View Post
    Concur with Le Duke, upping time riding will help.

    Consider: just sitting on a stationary bike or erg in front of the tv for just 1 hr a day, gently spinning the legs, for every day in a year equates to 365hrs of additional training. Is that a significant amount of training? Hell yes. Two types of people, those who watch more than 1hr of tv a day and liars.
    If your primary focus is on racing (which I assume is the case given this is the XC racing thread) this advice is really off the mark. Regularly getting on the bike to spin your legs for an hour will do virtually nothing to improve your racing capabilities. Training for racing is all about intensity and you would be much better off doing hard intervals for an hour every couple / few days than just spinning your legs in front of the TV each day. I would also agree / echo the comments made by spec4life. Given the weather in the Northeast right now it would be difficult to get in 15hrs of training on the bike right now unless you are willing to put in major hours on your trainer (ughh) but there are lots of other things you can do to prepare for this year's racing season. Running, weightlifting, aerobics classes, spin classes etc. For weight loss check out Racing Weight as mentioned above ... it is an interesting / easy read and will give you some ideas on what and what not to do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cusco View Post
    I would also agree / echo the comments made by spec4life. Given the weather in the Northeast right now it would be difficult to get in 15hrs of training on the bike right now unless you are willing to put in major hours on your trainer (ughh) but there are lots of other things you can do to prepare for this year's racing season. Running, weightlifting, aerobics classes, spin classes etc.
    If you're in a snowy part of the country, xc skiing is one of the best activities you can do for bike racing.

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    While the original suggestion to do 15 hours a week might have been a little curt, it's a worthy experiment (if you can pull it off) just to experience the physiological response.

    Your resistance to fatigue improves.
    Your speed improves everywhere - up, down, and flat.
    Your weight drops.
    Your technical riding improves because you're lighter, going faster, and you're not as fatigued for the tech stuff.
    It's like having your own private tailwind.

    And it doesn't require a program or a coach. Just ride.

    But, it's a lot of work. It's mentally taxing. You might question yourself.
    It's really not sustainable for most people with family responsibilities.
    But, if you ever get the chance to do that kind of load for a few months, the results are eye-opening.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cusco View Post
    If your primary focus is on racing (which I assume is the case given this is the XC racing thread) this advice is really off the mark. Regularly getting on the bike to spin your legs for an hour will do virtually nothing to improve your racing capabilities. Training for racing is all about intensity and you would be much better off doing hard intervals for an hour every couple / few days than just spinning your legs in front of the TV each day. I would also agree / echo the comments made by spec4life. Given the weather in the Northeast right now it would be difficult to get in 15hrs of training on the bike right now unless you are willing to put in major hours on your trainer (ughh) but there are lots of other things you can do to prepare for this year's racing season. Running, weightlifting, aerobics classes, spin classes etc. For weight loss check out Racing Weight as mentioned above ... it is an interesting / easy read and will give you some ideas on what and what not to do.

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    I wanted to try and not pour out my whole life story when trying to start a topic. but since it has come up I will explain my situation a little more. I live in mass. so it is off season right now or people are starting there base. I wanted to run a half marathon on february 23rd with a couple of my buddies for fun. so in December I started working towards that goal while still trying to make sure i get some riding in. Once I finish the half marathon I will be back on the bike and doling 9-12 hours a week.

    This works out for me because last year I got a little tired come august and september. So this year I pushed back my base a month so i can hopefully finish the season strong.

    cptsydor, great post that was a really good breakdown on what kind of intake i should be doing. i think i am just not taking in enough calories. I have been using the livestrong calorie tracker app. For the past two week i have been doing just under 2000 calories.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TapewormWW View Post

    Next point, weight loss or gain is *almost* all about energy in vs energy out
    Well stated! When I start training in winter and have a few pounds to loose, I find that the first week the weight comes off fast, but than it seems to steady itself out. Once I have my power back to where it was last summer (usually about 8 weeks of hard training) I find it hard to eat enough to keep up! Therefore, I concentrate more on making more power than my calories. Yet, I do make sure I eat right (non-processed foods) and get 25% protein and 30-35% Fat in my diet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TapewormWW View Post

    Next point, weight loss or gain is *almost* all about energy in vs energy out (there are factors such as the thermogenic effect of certain foods).
    From a purely physiological level, this is true, but I think the 'psychology' of the body is just as important. I think this is something people just don't consider enough.

    By psychology of the body I mean, if you are burning 3000 calories a day, you could lose weight really well eating a couple big mac meals right before bed, every day, coming in at 2500 calories. Willing to bet people wouldn't feel good, nor could you come close to training at your potential.

    While loosing weight is fundamentally so simple, to put in practice, and combine with training, takes a lot more effort and knowledge. For some people, it's pretty easy, they naturally do it, for others, it can be a steep learning curve.

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    It's great to be able to use high training volume for weight management, but remember that learning to modulate intake to reflect how much volume you are doing (less calories when training less) is important for long-term weigh maintenance.

    It's really no good (physically or mentally) to have to re-lose the weight after each offseason.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CptSydor View Post
    From a purely physiological level, this is true, but I think the 'psychology' of the body is just as important. I think this is something people just don't consider enough.

    By psychology of the body I mean, if you burning 3000 calories a day, you could lose weight really well eating a couple big mac meals right before bed, every day, coming in at 2500 calories. Willing to bet people wouldn't feel good, not could you come close to training at your potential.

    While loosing weight is fundamentally so simple, to put in practice, and combine with training, takes a lot more effort and knowledge. For some people, it's pretty easy, they naturally do it, for others, it can be a steep learning curve.
    The most recent winner of the Vuelta a Espana would disagree with you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by adumb View Post
    your really coming off hard on me for asking a simple question. if this forum was only for super fast guys putting in 15 hours a week i don't think it would see many post.

    i am asking to hear other riders experiences with trying to diet while riding and see if they also felt more tired than usual during workouts until there weight leveled out.
    Yes, dropping weight and working out makes me feel a bit more tired than usual (when I'm not cutting weight). C'est la vie.

    You can use TrainingPeaks.com to track what you eat, or a simple free app from MyFitnessPal.com (I started using that this year). You plug in your current weight and your goal weight, and it suggests how many calories per day you need to eat to reach your goal. You also plug in your exercise each day and it calculates - or automatically adjusts - your daily caloric allowance. Being absolutely honest about how many calories you eat (cups, ounces, portions, etc...) is key to tracking how many calories you really do eat.

    To combat the feeling extra tired while working out syndrome, one should be realistic and target gradual weight loss (perhaps a pound or at most - 1.5 pounds per week) to not be overly exhausted.

    As another poster listed above, the winter hibernation and inability to get as many outside hours on the bike (or in your case running) while also lifting weights can lead to weight gain in the "off season". I'm sure many on this board experience that and then shed the gain once the weather and season changes. I've been fighting it hard this year and luckily, instead of gaining my usual 8-10 pounds, I only gained 5 which I am now shedding with diet and indoor trainer rides (outside when the snow and ice permit it). And yes, I feel more fatigued at the moment, but most of that is from a bit more aggressive and structured base training plan than I may have done in the past at this point of the year (a bit more hours than your 8).

    Trying to get a good night's sleep, going easy on the recovery days, making sure I get a snack between meals, eating well balanced meals, etc...all help you function as best as possible.

    And if you feel really zapped and fatigued one day - listen to your body and take the day off.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bbbrad View Post
    I like this guys approach: Racing Weight by Matt Fitzgerald
    He also has a quickstart & recipe book that are pretty good.
    +2 helped me get over the Cat 2 mid-pack hump.


    Lost 35lbs, I'm around 8% bodyfat, FTP/KG is 4+, and haven't counted a calorie in 2 years.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fat Urkel View Post
    If you're eating clean, you should start lossing the weight by riding more and running less. ..
    ?? Running is a fantastic way to lose weight.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crankout View Post
    ?? Running is a fantastic way to lose weight.
    My trainer cut running out of my training plan do the increased levels of Cortisol it was causing. Walking at brisk pace on a incline has shown better weight loss results then running.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post

    Ride 15hrs a week and the weight will take care of itself.
    True that. I go for 50+ hours a month during base (the last few years), and the weight comes off super quick. I get so skinny mid summer, my wife complains about it (she says my arms get skinnier than hers).

    To the OP:
    I'm currently 171, but not too worried about getting back to my typical 160. Staying in pretty good overall shape this winter doing my own crossfit workouts 5-6 days a week. This year I'm targeting Road Nationals (September; right in the town I live in) and cyclocross (which runs to December), so will start serious base training in March.

    As far as diet, I keep it simple. Try to eat sensible portions with as little processed foods as possible. That's it.

    If you have trouble riding the trainer, then doing something like crossfit is great. I find it's better to be fit (not "bike fit") and happy, then "bike fit" and miserable. The only thing with this approach is that you'll not be race ready for spring races, but will be for mid summer races when everyone else is burned out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    The most recent winner of the Vuelta a Espana would disagree with you.
    Give it a shot, let me know how you do.

    If you can make it that way, awesome, my guess is most people can't.

    I'm sure Horner isn't an outlier

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    When I was racing on the road at 141lbs/64kgs, and producing 350w+ for 20min, I was eating everything in sight. I was riding ~20hrs a week while working a normal, 8-5 job.

    I'd eat at the local Mexican joint for lunch, AND dinner, several days a week.

    The problem, at least for me, was getting enough food that I WANTED to eat. 1200cal of bland, boring food that I don't want to eat won't help me. 1200cal of delicious, Mexican goodness? Goes down very easily.

    Now, I'm at work from 6am-6pm, and have less time to train. My job requires me to have a certain amount of upper body strength, as well. There are also less outdoor training opportunities here, requiring more time on the trainer. The weight sticks around longer, and I have to monitor what I eat, and when.
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    While this may have worked for you it may not work for others. Calories in /calories out are not same for everyone due to how body stores nutrients, the timing of nutrients being consumed, and metabolism.


    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    When I was racing on the road at 141lbs/64kgs, and producing 350w+ for 20min, I was eating everything in sight. I was riding ~20hrs a week while working a normal, 8-5 job.

    I'd eat at the local Mexican joint for lunch, AND dinner, several days a week.

    The problem, at least for me, was getting enough food that I WANTED to eat. 1200cal of bland, boring food that I don't want to eat won't help me. 1200cal of delicious, Mexican goodness? Goes down very easily.

    Now, I'm at work from 6am-6pm, and have less time to train. My job requires me to have a certain amount of upper body strength, as well. There are also less outdoor training opportunities here, requiring more time on the trainer. The weight sticks around longer, and I have to monitor what I eat, and when.
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    Quote Originally Posted by irishpitbull View Post
    While this may have worked for you it may not work for others. Calories in /calories out are not same for everyone due to how body stores nutrients, the timing of nutrients being consumed, and metabolism.
    True, but for a given amount of work, people of the same size will burn close to the same amount of calories.

    You don't have too much variance in calorie expenditure from pedaling at XXXw for 3hrs across the board. Before or after that, sure.
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    Quote Originally Posted by irishpitbull View Post
    +2 helped me get over the Cat 2 mid-pack hump.


    Lost 35lbs, I'm around 8% bodyfat, FTP/KG is 4+, and haven't counted a calorie in 2 years.
    Looks like a great book. I was just reading a bit of the "look inside" at Amazon and found it a bit disheartening to read the results of the study they did with 4 groups of cyclists.

    It was something like group 1 worked on improving their power output only for 4 weeks and did not try to cut weight, group 2 worked on power output and also tried to cut weight at the same time, group 3 worked on cutting weight only, and group 4 trained and ate as usual.

    I would have thought that the group cutting weight and working on increasing their power at the same time would have had the best results. Instead - they saw no improvement. Ouch!!! The group that worked on improving their power only saw a 10% increase, and the group that worked on cutting weight only, saw a 9.3% increase.

    Good news, though...

    It also said the best time to cut weight was in the 4-8 weeks after coming off the down time in post-season (so base training period is when to cut weight, I assume). Once you move into the build phase to train for the actual races, forget about working on cutting weight and focus on increasing power only according to that study. Is that how others interpret it?

  36. #36
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    Around May of 2013 I think I weighed in around 187. I never weighed that much and was pretty shocked considering I was always in good shape and an athlete.

    I now weigh around 162 and pretty tone (5' 8"). I cut out all of the crap and unnecessary food and was on my road and mtn bike two-three times a day. Of course, couldn't ride as much with work and all, but I made sure I was on the bike at least once a day. My goal is 155 by end of March.

    It's now the dead of winter where I live and thankfully I have a job where everyday is sort of a workout. I go to the rec center when I can, spin on the stationary for 35-60 mins a night and workout.

    You can do it, just a mindset.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cusco View Post
    If your primary focus is on racing (which I assume is the case given this is the XC racing thread) this advice is really off the mark. Regularly getting on the bike to spin your legs for an hour will do virtually nothing to improve your racing capabilities. Training for racing is all about intensity and you would be much better off doing hard intervals for an hour every couple / few days than just spinning your legs in front of the TV each day. I would also agree / echo the comments made by spec4life. Given the weather in the Northeast right now it would be difficult to get in 15hrs of training on the bike right now unless you are willing to put in major hours on your trainer (ughh) but there are lots of other things you can do to prepare for this year's racing season. Running, weightlifting, aerobics classes, spin classes etc. For weight loss check out Racing Weight as mentioned above ... it is an interesting / easy read and will give you some ideas on what and what not to do.
    The point is that the spinning in front of the TV or whatever is done in addition to the regular training. Do the X hr ride outside, and the intervals etc but then add the spinning on top of it. It can and does make a difference. It ups the volume without adding to the systemic stress (and often aids recovery). And the mere act of moving ensure more energy is being burnt.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by irishpitbull View Post
    While this may have worked for you it may not work for others. Calories in /calories out are not same for everyone due to how body stores nutrients, the timing of nutrients being consumed, and metabolism.
    This is very true but the effect are usually far less pronounced than made out. We're not that efficient a machine and the variance for that efficiency in regards power output doesn't vary hugely (a few percent).

    Humans are not immune to the laws of thermodynamics, unfortunately.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by skibum1321 View Post
    That is ridiculously obsessive compulsive. My plan is usually just to try eat fairly clean, control portions and get a lot of exercise. Just eat when you're hungry but don't gouge yourself. It works pretty well even in the winter when I'm only training about 10 hrs/week. I keep a pretty steady weight around 170 lbs at 6'2". Any lower is unmaintainable for me. I also like to have a beer at dinner. It may be empty calories, but I'd rather enjoy life than worry about every little pound. I'm not a pro, so depriving myself isn't necessary.
    Hahah, weighing myself every day is obsessive, yet you have a beer with every meal.

    I say the weighing is thorough tracking of data. Especially when training in the heat, it can become a good measure of hydration levels, at which point I may weigh 5 times a day. I also track waking and pre-bed time HR too. I advocate not to drink alcohol on any sort of regular basis because it's not just the empty calories its the way alcohol can impact hormone production, especially post exercise.

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    I'm not sure what " It's less pronounced than made out" means.

    There is nothing more pronounced than a persons body type. ( Mesomorph, Endomorph, Ectomorph ) A persons body type directly correlates with the way their body stores nutrients which then correlates to the types of training and timing of nutrients.

    Quote Originally Posted by TapewormWW View Post
    This is very true but the effect are usually far less pronounced than made out. We're not that efficient a machine and the variance for that efficiency in regards power output doesn't vary hugely (a few percent).

    Humans are not immune to the laws of thermodynamics, unfortunately.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TapewormWW View Post
    The point is that the spinning in front of the TV or whatever is done in addition to the regular training. Do the X hr ride outside, and the intervals etc but then add the spinning on top of it. It can and does make a difference. It ups the volume without adding to the systemic stress (and often aids recovery). And the mere act of moving ensure more energy is being burnt.
    The point is that for me (and likely a large % of folks on this board) my training time is constrained by family and job responsibilities. Between work, my wife, two teenage daughters and training when I can my schedule is already completely booked. Spending an additional hour each day just spinning on the trainer is simply not an option. Therefore when I do train a leisurely 1 hr. spin would be a complete waste of the precious time I've allocated to cycling and racing. I'm guessing there are lots of other folks who find themselves in a similar situation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by irishpitbull View Post
    I'm not sure what " It's less pronounced than made out" means.

    There is nothing more pronounced than a persons body type. ( Mesomorph, Endomorph, Ectomorph ) A persons body type directly correlates with the way their body stores nutrients which then correlates to the types of training and timing of nutrients.
    The somtatotypes listed above are an artificial construction by a psychologist back in the 60's - and there are NO, none, nil, genetic markers to categorise people as such. They do NOT exist. Yet this junk science still prevails somehow.

    "Less than made out" is in relation to the fact that if you take a random group of people and get them to do 2000kj of work the variance in energy burnt to create that work will not vary that much between individuals.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cusco View Post
    The point is that for me (and likely a large % of folks on this board) my training time is constrained by family and job responsibilities. Between work, my wife, two teenage daughters and training when I can my schedule is already completely booked. Spending an additional hour each day just spinning on the trainer is simply not an option. Therefore when I do train a leisurely 1 hr. spin would be a complete waste of the precious time I've allocated to cycling and racing. I'm guessing there are lots of other folks who find themselves in a similar situation.
    Do you watch tv? Maybe a movie with the kids?
    (I've got 3 under 5 years old, in case you were wondering. Amazing the extra work you can get done during another showing of "Tinkerbell's Fairy Rescue".)

  44. #44
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    Somatotypes are a legit science taught is just about every exercise class in the world. It was also created in the 40's. The Russians also used to evaluate Olympic athletes.



    Your 2nd statement loaded and wouldn't be proper test anyway.



    Quote Originally Posted by TapewormWW View Post
    The somtatotypes listed above are an artificial construction by a psychologist back in the 60's - and there are NO, none, nil, genetic markers to categorise people as such. They do NOT exist. Yet this junk science still prevails somehow.

    "Less than made out" is in relation to the fact that if you take a random group of people and get them to do 2000kj of work the variance in energy burnt to create that work will not vary that much between individuals.
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    My take is that it's all about portion control. I'm in my mid-forties, like to have a few beers at night, and train about 6 to 9 hours per week for recreational racing (mid-pack expert). Six feet tall and 160-165 in the winter, 155-160 in the warmer months. Just don't eat heavily except on very rare occasions, snack a lot, but lightly, and keep the intensity high when you ride. I like to run too -- mainly in the winter because I hate cleaning mud and road gunk off my bikes, or getting cold. Running is high-quality because you can ramp up heart rate quickly and keep it high without much mental effort.

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    Quote Originally Posted by irishpitbull View Post
    Somatotypes are a legit science taught is just about every exercise class in the world. It was also created in the 40's. The Russians also used to evaluate Olympic athletes.
    Oops yes, 40s by William Sheldon. Regardless, it's junk science. Through and through. No sport scientist gives it any credence anymore.

    Your 2nd statement loaded and wouldn't be proper test anyway.
    Why not?

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by adumb View Post
    I have put on a few pounds in the off season and am up to 178 at 5'10. not huge but would like to get it under control. I have started to pay attention to what I eat. I wouldn't say I am on some complicated diet I have been just paying attention to portions and trying to not eat just because I am bored which I do a lot of at work, and cutting out eating when I get home from work.

    in the past two weeks I have lost about 8lbs. I would like to get down to 160 or maybe even 155. my problem is as soon as I seem to cut some calories out within a couple of days I just feel weak. I am not talking about crashes in the middle of the day or stuff like. during my day I feel fine and don't seem to be down on energy, but whenever I do my workouts now I am definitely down enough to notice.

    so my question is how can I lose weight but not lose my fitness in the meantime? Is it a matter of just dealing with it until I get to my goal weight and then my body will adjust and my energy during my workouts will go back up? could i be losing weight to fast. i know 8 pounds in two weeks is probably a little to much but we all know how easy the first couple come off so i assume it will slow down soon.
    Losing 8lbs in two weeks is probably a bit too rapid. When I was working on losing weight last year (down from 176lbs March 2013 back to my normal 149lbs at 6' by December 2013) I was losing roughly around 1lb of weight per week.

    I weighed myself each day with a Withings WS-30 wifi scale to keep track of trends and logged my food intake using the MyFitnessPal app

    Free Calorie Counter, Diet & Exercise Journal | MyFitnessPal.com

    Withings - Wireless Scale WS-30 - Introduction



    Along with losing the power belly and bingo wings I really needed to put some muscle back on (especially cycling specific leg muscle once I started riding again) so I had regular whey protein shakes throughout the day and tried to make sure that I never felt hungry. If I felt hungry I'd have a small snack. For dieting I cut out the sugary sweets and fruit juices that I had normally, reducing the amount of calories I was eating overall, but then splitting the remaining calories out over the entire day instead of having fewer larger meals.

    Although I was dieting overall I didn't do any "bonk training" when I started riding again. As soon as I was able to do longer rides again I was having a meal pre-ride, using carbohydrate energy drink mix in my water bottle and eating solid food (cereal bars) whilst riding also. The aim was to be able to have enough energy to go out and ride hard for as long as needed.

    Along with ride food for energy whilst riding you could try diet pills or a pre-workout (as a powder not a can of Red Bull or similar) immediately pre-ride as they have caffeine in which will give you a short term boost to get you through the training.

    I also have an iron/ vitamin B12 supplement each day which could be helpful to take too.

    Vitabiotics Feroglobin Vitamin and Mineral Capsules 30 Capsules: Amazon.co.uk: Health & Personal Care

    .

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    The best summation of the whole thread is right here:

    Quote Originally Posted by WR304 View Post
    Losing 8lbs in two weeks is probably a bit too rapid.
    Of course you're going to be tired! Eat a bit more, I aim for 1-2 pounds per week. Much more than that and I'm too tired to make the power goals I set.

    And Duke, while you probably need to ride 15+ hours per week to compete with the pros, you definitely don't need to ride 15 hours a week to lose some weight.

  49. #49
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    Many great responses here, but if I could just add one easy thing you can do: figure out what your main weakness is, then cut it out. For example, my weakness is eating after dinner -- I just like to continue grazing. When I cut that out recently, I dropped a couple lbs a week pretty easily over the course of a few weeks. Still got more to go, but I know it'll go as my preseason volume increases.
    My boss's weakness was his one soda per day habit. He cut it out and shed 15 lbs over the course of a few months.
    Best of luck.
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    Lots of interesting thoughts in this thread from nutrition to volume and intensity.

    What I think could help the OP: eat more and more often (eat when your hungery stop when your full), be sure of timing as somebody else had suggested, eating right before runs and rides. If workouts are longer then I say 90 min make sure you have a little snake in there as well.

    Try to "upgrade" your food, this is something I learned form a great natural nutritionist who has worked with some great nutritionist including Brendon Brazier (maker of Vega). What this means is to just try to change what you are eating to make it a little more nutritional. For example I have (most of the time) switched from chips as a snack at night to nut and dried fruit mixes and then my next step will be to "upgrade" to a raw nut and fruit mix and hopefully add in some sea veggies.

    To add to what Cpt said in every one of those meals he laid out; try to make sure you include all macro nutrients (protein, fat, carbs) and make sure there is fibre in there as well.

    LOTS of water!!

    The last thing I will share just because I think it is sooo great is the 80:20 rule which is 80% of what you eat is for your body (all the healthy stuff) and 20% is what ever you want, so that is what you eat that makes you happy or allows you to go out for supper or have that beer at night.
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