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Thread: Base training?

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    Base training?

    I just started riding again and also completed my first 3 weeks of Base heading into my first recovery week. My racing schedule was pushed back almost 3 weeks compared to last year, and I was wondering if adding a fourth block of Base would be a good idea. I don't want to start build too early, but most of my races are in the early part of spring. I do have some targeted races, but they are a bit farther on the schedule.

    Any advice on how to target those races but also be more competitive early in the season? Maybe a longer Base and shorter Build? My volume is up form 450 to 500-550 hours this year...so maybe I can manage a longer Base...

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    Are you following training bible?

    The closer you get to race - more race specific workouts need to be.

    I am focusing on raising power @ threshold. More SST (Sweet spot) and threshold work in off season this year - No zone 2 (including base). I have cold winters to deal with - want to spend less time on trainer.

    Two months before first race "that counts" I will start adding anaerobic threshold intervals.

    I do not plan on "losing" that much fitness this off-season. Last winter was mild here in chicago, so I could get out all year - odds are not this year.

    Let me know if I helped with your question. I guess it depends on how important your first race is - or if you want to "race to train"

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    This is what I was talking about...


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    what is your "base" training composed of?

    why are you working on a 3 week / 1 week off basis?

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    Base training

    He is probably working with a plan like Joe Friels for example - (google Joe friels blog)

    Joe Friel - Base 1 Training, Part 1

    basic principle
    wk 1 5hr
    wk 2 6hr
    wk 3 7hr
    wk 4 3.5hrs deload

    Increase intensity and / or duration and then recover to help prevent over training and then race and or test

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    My question was more aimed at understanding why the OP thinks he should use a 3on 1off model.

    This is quite an outdated concept and its not-so-usefull when you plan and monitor training accordingly. Better off with block training or linear volume with some variations here and there, no need for an "unloading" week, its a waste of time and time is fitness/form. One or two days OFF a week is plenty enough, especially if you follow the old school LSD principle. Even if you're into SST and L4 training, an unloading week is useless.

    No need for an easy week to prevent overtraining. Clinical overtraining is pretty hard to reach on the short term. To avoid over reaching, regular testing and fatigue monitoring are key. Listening to your body and tracking fatigue and mood trend will help discern any ongoing overreaching patern.

    OP: you should let us know what kind of workout you are doing and how they are planned. Also, "base" is a very loose and relative term, it litterally depends on where you actually live.

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    I would think...

    Probably to prevent "over reaching" if that is what you want to call it.

    3.5hrs amounts to a couple of days off from previous 7hr week.

    Most ambitious athletes have a hard time "self-diagnosing" their state of fatigue.

    If race results, or power output is down, "some people" think the answer is a harder workout. In actuality, they need to rest and recover.

    Probability for success without recovery week is greater using programs like WKO with power.

    Better to be 10% undertrained then 1% overtrained. When in doubt...leave it out.

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    yeah, over reaching is what most people experience and think they are over trained, its accumulated fatigue that goes off within a few days. Clinical over training is much more rare and dangerous, it can last months.

    Self diagnosing fatigue is easy if you keep track of it and look at the overall picture, couple with your RPE for given workout. If you start a workout and dont hit any close to target power number, then you must stop right there, spin it easy and relax, take a day off or two. If someone thinks they must train hard when they dont reach target power number from a recent test, then they are idiots.

    anyways, I use a similar approach to yours scottz123. Here I cant ride much outside, maybe a bit during the week end but thats about it. So my off season starts with lots of short L6 efforts with equally short recovery and a bit of L4. Progressing to more L4, less L6 and finally adding a bit of short L5 work. I hit more SST and tempo when I can ride outdoors.

    The L6 is important during off season IMO. It helps transitionning from the racing season, where I race a lot and dont do much focussed, structured training sessions. Starting back with loads of L4 can be a massive stress for your body and nervous system. The short L6 stuff help prepare the body for the big months (jan-feb). Additionnaly, it helps with short, sharp effort repeatability and bring a decent ammount of high end aerobic work. Gains are made quickly, so no need to do these too long. Lastly, if you burn yourself doing these, no major issue, since its the off season. Better over cook it during winter then during race season.

    As for testing, I test monthly, using a MAP test, 25w/min increment and estimate my FTP conservatively from the result. I also track my fatigue and RPE for each workout. FYI, im not too much into TSS, CTL, TSB, etc, etc. Too much of a assle, I like to keep training simple and efficient, no need for these metrics.

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    Yes, I'm using Friel's but with a few tweaks by a pro coach ( I can't afford one,he gave me the tips for certification purposes...long story...). I do use a 3:1 program; it has proven to be the best for me. During racing season, I switch to a 2 weeks/ 3-4 days and it has paid dividends in the past, but I have to stay very disciplined.

    I was planning on an average Base this year (9 weeks), but since the schedule was moved back, I might do more base (12 weeks) before racing starts. My targeted races are far into the season, but I do have a planned peak at the middle of it. Two years ago, unknowingly, I was able to do this and it worked perfectly since I won both targeted races, but last year everything fell apart. Now I'm back at having a more structured plan, but my season also is longer.
    Even though this is my recovery week,I do have a test this week to see where I'm at.

    Crunching numbers after I wrote the initial post on this thread made me realize that the small change of schedule will not affect me that much; I'm just gonna do a bigger base and work on strength while at it...something that went missing last season and it took a toll on me...
    Last edited by carlostruco; 11-27-2012 at 05:04 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by carlostruco View Post
    certification porpoises.

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    Quote Originally Posted by carlostruco View Post
    Any advice on how to target those races but also be more competitive early in the season? Maybe a longer Base and shorter Build? My volume is up form 450 to 500-550 hours this year...so maybe I can manage a longer Base...
    Yes, longer base, and keep the standard build cycle. Like Friel said in his blog, when in doubt, base ride.

    Try to ride as long as your schedule allows. My schedule allows doing 1-2 hours on weekdays (occasionally throw in a single 3 hour), and 3-4 hours each weekend day. Perform a lower-volume week every 3 or 4 weeks, just to unwind and catch up on things at the house. I also like taking one day a week completely off, usually Mondays.

    You're in Puerto Rico, so no excuse for not achieving long winter base miles. Don't get distracted by all the bikini chicks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by iwanttolookatpics View Post
    stupid auto correct spell check of hell!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Poncharelli View Post
    Yes, longer base, and keep the standard build cycle. Like Friel said in his blog, when in doubt, base ride.

    Try to ride as long as your schedule allows. My schedule allows doing 1-2 hours on weekdays (occasionally throw in a single 3 hour), and 3-4 hours each weekend day. Perform a lower-volume week every 3 or 4 weeks, just to unwind and catch up on things at the house. I also like taking one day a week completely off, usually Mondays.

    You're in Puerto Rico, so no excuse for not achieving long winter base miles. Don't get distracted by all the bikini chicks.
    1:30 in the mornings and a 1:00 in the evenings...either gym or trainer...work comes first. Living down here is a blessing...sunny, 80 degrees all winter and mornings are cooler so you can ride longer!!!

    I'm currently on a 3:1 program, but it will get bumped from 9 week Base to a 12 week Base. The rest of it will stay the same...

    And if any time any of you guys wanna come down here for vacation, riding or racing, I will be more than willing to show you around good trails and awesomely fast group rides!!!

    BTW, I also surf my rear end off almost every day, so I'm used to girls in bikini hanging around the beach all day...

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    Carlostruco : BTW, I also surf my rear end off almost every day, so I'm used to girls in bikini hanging around the beach all day...

    I was just plain jealous, but after this bit of information I am starting to hate you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by serious View Post
    Carlostruco : BTW, I also surf my rear end off almost every day, so I'm used to girls in bikini hanging around the beach all day...

    I was just plain jealous, but after this bit of information I am starting to hate you.
    Don't hate the player...hate the game!!!

    Don't get me wrong, I love surfing as much as I love rinding and racing, but since we don't have good waves all year round, I do spend a lot of time on the bike. Our season starts in February, right in the middle of surfing season, and its over by July (XC) and September (Enduarnce).

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    Quote Originally Posted by carlostruco View Post

    BTW, I also surf my rear end off almost every day, so I'm used to girls in bikini hanging around the beach all day...
    Pictures Man, pictures!

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    Quote Originally Posted by CB2 View Post
    Pictures Man, pictures!
    Gotta ask...surfing or bikinis?

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    Quote Originally Posted by carlostruco View Post
    Don't hate the player...hate the game!!!

    Don't get me wrong, I love surfing as much as I love rinding and racing, but since we don't have good waves all year round, I do spend a lot of time on the bike. Our season starts in February, right in the middle of surfing season, and its over by July (XC) and September (Enduarnce).
    'Fond memories of trips to NW coast (Isabela), for windsurfing. Used be able to monitor wind/wave forecast and fly over with gear without much hassle. Always rented the same house (2nd floor) for around $125 / night right on the beach.....spectacular view

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    Quote Originally Posted by carlostruco View Post
    Gotta ask...surfing or bikinis?
    We know what you look like.

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    There are some MTB trails right near Isabela if you stayed near Jobos...one in Aguadilla at about 15 minute ride...the others at 20 minute drives...I usualy rent a house in Rincon during the first two weeks of January and try to get as much surfing and riding possible each day. I call that my mini training camp. Roads are smooth with low traffic, trails are always dry and technical and waves pumping daily!!! One of those trails use to host a UCI event in which the likes of Michael Broderick, Troy Wells, Jason Sager, Dana Weber, Mary Mcconneloug and other use to come down here yearly for back to back weekends of races...

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    Quote Originally Posted by scottz123 View Post
    Probably to prevent "over reaching" if that is what you want to call it.

    3.5hrs amounts to a couple of days off from previous 7hr week.

    Most ambitious athletes have a hard time "self-diagnosing" their state of fatigue.

    If race results, or power output is down, "some people" think the answer is a harder workout. In actuality, they need to rest and recover.

    Probability for success without recovery week is greater using programs like WKO with power.

    Better to be 10% undertrained then 1% overtrained. When in doubt...leave it out.
    This is the audience that Friel targets, thus the reason for 3:1. I think we can all agree that learning to 'recover' can be extremely difficult. It takes discipline to step back and recover. I don't follow the 3:1, but do pay close attention to my performance management chart (TP). Since learning how to use this chart and actually using it, I've experienced significant growth in training. More importantly, I've never entered a race where I felt 'tired'. I know exactly where I need to be prior to a race. There is a learning curve to using that chart, but well worth it.

    The scatter plot is also an awesome tool to help improve, but that's more geared toward road/triathlon.

    Read about Performance Management Chart Here.

    Read about quadrant analysis here (aka nerdy data)

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