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  1. #1
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    Anthem vs. Top Fuel

    Advice and experiences wanted!

    Anthem composite+Fox rp 23 vs. Top Fuel+Manitou svp sr

    Which frame/rear suspension is better for a no-bob-no-worries racebike?
    Why?

  2. #2
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    They're both pretty darn good. To be honest, I think your choice will come down to feel. If you can, ride both and see how they work with your body's geometry. Trek's have longer top tubes, but I am not sure about any specifics for the Giant.

    Regardless, both are good setups. It all comes down to rider preference!

    On another note, have you checked out the Specialized Epic? Specialized's suspension setup is the golden standard for XC racing.

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    Specialized needs to knock about 2 lbs and $200 off their epic to be in the game. The anthem is tough to beat.

  4. #4
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    Agreed, I had an epic (hated it) and now I have an anthem. The anthem has the same pedalling efficiency but with an active suspension. It climbs with more traction and has more ride compliance to different terrain plus its 25.5 lbs all stock w pedals. I wouldn't even consider the trek. 4 point horst links are busted compared to maestro and vpp suspension platforms.

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    Thanks,
    I have never actually tried the Top Fuel. I have tried the Anthem, and it feels comfortable and efficient. I guess it is hard to beat.

    Anyone here have any experiences or opinions about the Top Fuel SL? Trek claims it is 20lb (without pedals) stock! It has a Manitou SPV shock. That is the lightest fs "production" bike I have heard of. No need to lighten with expensive parts...

    Or any experiences of a fuel with spv shock with no lockout. Is a lockout needed??

  6. #6
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    20lbs?

    I would ask around on that one. Sounds way too low to me. I knoew Trek understates a lot of there weights. I have an anthem 0 on its way and i here it is 24.5 w/ bottle cage, and that is pretty light for a production race bike. Good luck, and I'm sure you'll like whatever you get

  7. #7
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    Fuel Weight

    Check out this month's issue of MBAction - Jeremiah Bishop's Fuel weighed 22.5 pounds. I'm sure there are lots of posts about the different pro weights quoted in the article.

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    fuel weight

    if you look closer at the picture of jeremiah bishops fuel on the scale you will notice that it is his hardtail that weighs 22.5 lbs.

    find the f.s. bike that fits best then buy the frame and build it yourself for a race bike.

    or do like me and buy a complete spec. epic marathon, then replace almost every part immediately because its to heavy. ha.:

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    Yep, another one of those questions without any right answer. Since its a race bike, the bottom line is which bike you'll be faster on. Impossible to answer, sure the anthem suspension may be more sensitive to bumps, but is it really going to make you faster than riding the top fuel in a race? I would say there are marginal differences in overall performance of these two race bikes.
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  10. #10
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    Bishop's Bike

    My mistake on the 22.5 pound hardtail vs. Fuel - good catch. I saw Bishop ride at a local race two weeks ago on his Fuel and must have had that on the brain. Adam Craig's carbon anthem was listed at 25 pounds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Franco94
    My mistake on the 22.5 pound hardtail vs. Fuel - good catch. I saw Bishop ride at a local race two weeks ago on his Fuel and must have had that on the brain. Adam Craig's carbon anthem was listed at 25 pounds.
    I demo'd an '06 anthem 2 last week (all stock except carbon bar) and it weighed 25.5 lbs. My '07 anthem 1 should be in today and I expect it'll weigh between 25-26lbs out of the box. I think giant really got it right with this one. It's a lot of bike in its price range.

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    ... My 07 Anthem 1 (18") came in two days ago and I upgraded (with parts on hand) to crossmax sl's, xt cranks, xtr cassette and chain, and a carbon bar. With pedals (egg beaters) the bike came in at 24.9 pnds. The Anthem is only good for one thing.....going really, really fast. Can't go wrong with this bike my 02. cents worth.

  13. #13
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    Both will suit you fine. The Fuel is a time proven design and the Giant has been getting rave reviews.

    Take em both for a spin, see which geometry you like better and then just giver.

    Stay away from the new Fuel SL unless you push tall gears and are a weight weenie. Since it was designed with the weight weenie in mind it was specced with some ludacrously light parts. Ultegra cassette, 1390g wheelset etc etc.
    Some great sets for the trainer:
    http://soundcloud.com/deejayfeelgood

  14. #14
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    No comparison

    I owned a carbon fuel 100 and I sold it. I currently own a 2007 Anthem 0 and so far so good. The Fuel weighed 24 lbs with v-brakes. My Giant weighs 24.5 with discs. I never like the geometry on the trek-not quick enough. In addition, the problems associated with the single pivot( bob and brake jack) made me long for a hardtail. That is why I like the Giant. I have ridden it twice, once was a race (rode it to 2nd expert vet!), it was quick handling and I never felt any bob nor did the suspension lockout under braking and I was able to ride seated through most of the rough stuff. I have owned many, many bikes and have always liked hardtails due to their efficiency. The Anthem is the first full suspension which rides like a hardtail but gives me the benefits of a dual squishy. Tomorrow, I plan on riding trails which is uber-rocky and technical. It will be interesting so see how the Giant handles trails which are more suited for bike with 4"-6" of travel.

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    edwood, I'm not sure what year your fuel 100 is, but the top fuels are not quite the same as the previous years fuels. Updated shocks, bearing pivots instead of bushings, re-designed rear triangle, remote lockout rear and front. So, wouldn't say your comparison may be valid.
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    Just in...2007 Anthem ) weighing --

    We have weighed a stock Anthem 0 lg at 23.9 w/o pedals.

    I built my Anthem 0 today and swapped the fork for a World Cup Carbon and Avid Juicy Ultimates. I 'stansed' the tires and hit the scales at 23.15 w/o pedals.

    I am pretty impressed. How Adam Craigs' is 25 I don't know. From what I know about him, he's the type to throw out a fat weight just to play with our minds.

    I understand the carbon is 1/3+ lbs lighter than the al and with the XTR...

    Anyways, quite a slick suspension design. A strong pedalling platform and active for braking and climbing. And light and stiff too.

  17. #17
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    Anyone tried the 2007 Fuel?

    Has anyone actually tried the new 2007 Fuel?

    If the bushings are replaced with bearings, it should be more sensitive to small bumps, but also more bobbing should occur when pedalling.

    Or have they actually done something with the geometry to make it bob less and work better? And then (after redesigning the rear triangle+geometry) replaced the bushing with bearings, to make it more sensitive.

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    So how was the anthem over relatively rough stuff?

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    Considering the travel, it was excellent.

  20. #20
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    Both bikes listed by the OP are excellent choices for a race bike. At that price level, you owe it to yourself to demo both and then go demo a third brand in the same category just to make sure you are right about the first two. I know a few people that actually went with the third bike. In this case, demo a Cannondale Scalpel, Specialized Epic or Scott Spark as your third choice. Heck, demo them all!! Then you will know for sure what YOU LIKE, not what others like.
    Tom G.
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  21. #21
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    most of the giants I have ridden have been a bit porky, Adam Craigs 25lb Anthem doesn't suprise me

  22. #22
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    I don't know where you guys are getting 25 lbs Adam's rig, but July 06 MBA has his bike at 23lbs.

  23. #23
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    Actually I have the magazine right in front of me it is 25.

  24. #24
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    Are you looking at pro dissection page? It has adams bike with the new xtr and states 23 lbs. In the lower lft corner. Put your glasses on - lol.
    Serisously if a non carbon a1 is 25.5 lbs Adams bike will be surely less .

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    Im preatty sure both of you are right. In the latest issue of MBA it says that his carbon anthem is 25 lbs. Not sure, about the issue you're reffereing to since i dont have it, but I wouldnt be surprised if MBA screwed one of them up. Maybe they just dont have their facts straight.

  26. #26
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    yes inside MBA on page 102, bottom left "Adam Craig: Giant Carbon Anthem dual suspension, 25 pounds." But also I have worked in the pits at NORBAs and talked to the Giant Reps, its 25 for his dual. His Hardtail is probably around 22-23lbs. And acutally the Az1 Sworks are 25 as well, I am refering to the ones the U23 national team rides. Christophs and Liams are something ubsurd like 19-20 supposedly.

  27. #27
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    well lets just blame MBA for being well, MBA. Its not the bible that for sure. Barrup has first hand experience that the A0 is 23.9 lbs. I know my stock A1 is 25.5 lbs.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by PinkyBrigade
    yes inside MBA on page 102, bottom left "Adam Craig: Giant Carbon Anthem dual suspension, 25 pounds." But also I have worked in the pits at NORBAs and talked to the Giant Reps, its 25 for his dual. His Hardtail is probably around 22-23lbs. And acutally the Az1 Sworks are 25 as well, I am refering to the ones the U23 national team rides. Christophs and Liams are something ubsurd like 19-20 supposedly.
    Let's put up some visuals
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    Just took the liberty to post it up here. Maybe, the guys from MBA didn't really nailed it down that's why there's a big discrepancy of the weight on separate occasions.

    Thanks!

  29. #29
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    My stock '07 anthem 1 is 26lbs without pedals.

  30. #30
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    Here it is.... 23 lbs! This was the July 06 Page 136. It has the complete breakdown of components on his bike and some opinions on why he was running them.

    Last edited by 1-bar; 11-17-2006 at 08:30 AM.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1-bar
    Here it is.... 23 lbs! This was the July 06 Page 136. It has the complete breakdown of components on his bike and some opinions on why he was running them.

    1-bar, if you wouldnt mind may be you could also scan (or take a pic) of the other page/ the whole article kinda thing. Im just curious to see what he runs and why. If you dont have the time or someting don't worry bout it. Thanks!

  32. #32
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    Man, those tires are ugly.
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  33. #33
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    blah blah- here you go!





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  34. #34
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    yes, on real electronic scale, like I have heard from many of the reps are a bit on the heavier side compared to other bikes out there. However Giant can allow the weight to not be a huge factor since the ride and quality of the bike is above other bikes with a lower weight.

  35. #35
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    so once again it does not suprise me that Adam Craigs bike is listed in the 25lb RANGE

  36. #36
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    if 23lbs mean 25lb range... than I agree with you.
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  37. #37
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    yes well I can see the weight issue going on and on with no real proof confirming either weight. but really the issue should be over ride and quality of the bike (the anthem) rather than the weight. I know that in my experiances I would rather have bike that rides better and weights a bit more over a bike that is super light, but with poor ride qaulity or performance. Thats why I will remove myself the further conversations since the bickering between myself and others is even making me sick. So i will stop polluting the thread and spending any more time at all discussing the weight on a bike I have no real personal experiance with other than pit gossip. I will leave that to the blowhards.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by PinkyBrigade
    yes, on real electronic scale, like I have heard from many of the reps are a bit on the heavier side compared to other bikes out there. However Giant can allow the weight to not be a huge factor since the ride and quality of the bike is above other bikes with a lower weight.
    I'm not here to contest it. Am an Anthem lover here also.

    Only just would like to verify, even the likes of Nitrous & the new Spider FRO? Anthem is better equipped than those "light" bikes?

    TIA!

  39. #39
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    cough...

    <a href="http://photobucket.com/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c121/Sick_Purple_Liquid/scott07_frischi_hi.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a>

    the ltd is 19.8 pounds according the site, even though it has the heavier frame.

    THIS is the lightest frameset as of next year

  40. #40
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    But how long will it last I ask?? After reading on the Ranson I'm not sure how it will hold up, but I bet the weight weenies out there will be eagerly dolling out their cash for one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Liquid
    cough...

    <a href="http://photobucket.com/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c121/Sick_Purple_Liquid/scott07_frischi_hi.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a>

    the ltd is 19.8 pounds according the site, even though it has the heavier frame.

    THIS is the lightest frameset as of next year
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  41. #41
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    My 18" 2007 Anthem 0 weighs 24lbs 5ounces with pedals and water bottle cage.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx
    But how long will it last I ask?? After reading on the Ranson I'm not sure how it will hold up, but I bet the weight weenies out there will be eagerly dolling out their cash for one.
    The Ranson is weird. A carbon 7 inch bike is just weird.

    If you use the Spark just for racing and nothing more, it will be sure to hold up.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Liquid
    the ltd is 19.8 pounds according the site, even though it has the heavier frame.
    I think the Limited is listed at 21.5 pounds. http://www.scottusa.com/product.php?UID=9629
    The frame is a little heavier, but subtract any weight for a seat post because you will not need one.

    I have a limited frame on order. It should be here in 2-3 months.

  44. #44
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    yeah you are right, I was thinking about the Scale limited

  45. #45
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    Stupid Lite

    first of all look at the anthem pictures closely gentleman, one is carbon, the 23lb bike, and then look that the other blue one which is the aluminum framed version which is the 25lb one.....there is your difference plus lighter parts everywhere than the standard 06 anthem 1..

    now for the scott, puuuuuuuleeeeeeeeezeeee...get real!
    "so, when i see that frame in reality,a scott spark, in a medium or large at 4lbs with shock, that you can race without it imploding on you, i will become a believer!!"

    also does the warranty cover my hospital bills???

    yes, i have seen many trek fuels cracked too, i know of one friend who races at the national level who is on his 3rd fuel in 14 months.....

    you can have it!!!!

  46. #46
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    Just got my '07 anthem 0 18''. It weighed 23.9 on a digital scale minus pedals and bottle cage. just my .02 worth
    - 2007 Giant Anthem 0 - 24.3lbs
    - 2000 Trek 8000 LT
    - 2006 Giant OCR Limited

  47. #47
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    Not being a racer (and hence ignorant on the finer points of bike set-up), how do you race a bike without pedals?



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  48. #48
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    ROFLMAO Man that is funny and so true. I too have never personally understood the weighing of a bike without pedals, they are as subjective and personal preference a part as the derailer, crankset etc. so they are part of the bike weight. Building up a 23lb bike and saying it's 23lbs, yet riding with some heavy Mallet C's which would actually take the entire bike weight up a lb is just plain stupid.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kalgrm
    Not being a racer (and hence ignorant on the finer points of bike set-up), how do you race a bike without pedals?



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  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx
    ROFLMAO Man that is funny and so true. I too have never personally understood the weighing of a bike without pedals, they are as subjective and personal preference a part as the derailer, crankset etc. so they are part of the bike weight. Building up a 23lb bike and saying it's 23lbs, yet riding with some heavy Mallet C's which would actually take the entire bike weight up a lb is just plain stupid.
    Most guys don't own digital scales. I'm guessing the bikes are weighed at the bike shop when they're built up or picked up. Since they don't come with pedals, they're weighed without.

  50. #50
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    Those are some very light weights on the Anthem 0's that people are getting. I'm looking forward to throwing my Anthem Advanced on the scale after chucking the tubes and stansing the tires. Though since I live in Canada it will be atleast a month before I get it. Woe is me.
    -You can keep your Spark, if I wanted a lightweight bike that doesnt ride well (single pivot) then I'd buy a hardtail with v-brakes.

  51. #51
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    Though I do like the dual ring setup

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by yater
    Most guys don't own digital scales. I'm guessing the bikes are weighed at the bike shop when they're built up or picked up. Since they don't come with pedals, they're weighed without.
    .... and since racers do their own maintenance work, they never take the bike back to the shop after they've set it up for themselves. Makes perfect sense now.

    Thanks,
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  53. #53
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    I totally agree w/ you guys, it just seems to be the standard....
    - 2007 Giant Anthem 0 - 24.3lbs
    - 2000 Trek 8000 LT
    - 2006 Giant OCR Limited

  54. #54
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    I rode a top fuel all this year with a manitou s-type spv shock. it rides amazingly well. absolutely no need for a lock-out. Even when sprinting, there's no bob. If you see photos from last season, travis brown was riding an spv shock on his fuel. I'd love to have one of the '07 top fuels, with the spv shock. But due to my current loathing of Trek's business practices, i will be switching to a scott spark. I'll have the spv shock waiting to swap out when it arrives. They work wonders. Fancy linkage designs are a waste, dw link, maestro, whatever felt and bmc are doing....even vpp. They just add weight and complexity, with no real added bonus. if you read the reviews of the Turner bikes with and without the hoist link, you'll see that they're no different. save yourself the hassle. i'd get the fuel. It's even American made.
    Last edited by packfill; 12-04-2006 at 05:23 PM.

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by packfill
    I rode a top fuel all this year with a manitou s-type spv shock. it rides amazingly well. absolutely no need for a lock-out. Even when sprinting, there's no bob. If you see photos from last season, travis brown was riding an spv shock on his fuel. I'd love to have one of the '07 top fuels, with the spv shock. But due to my current loathing of Trek's business practices, i will be switching to a scott spark. I'll have the spv shock waiting to swap out when it arrives. They work wonders. Fancy linkage designs are a waste, dw link, maestro, whatever felt and bmc are doing....even vpp. They just add weight and complexity, with no real added bonus. if you read the reviews of the Turner bikes with and without the hoist link, you'll see that they're no different. save yourself the hassle. i'd get the fuel. It's even American made.

    Your mentality reassures me that I am making the right decision to continuously buy Giants.

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benno
    Your mentality reassures me that I am making the right decision to continuously buy Giants.

    SWEET!! Take a stab at me without backing it up. Have you read the back to back comparisons of the turners with and without the hoist link? There almost no percievalbe difference.

    I put roughly 2,000 miles on my top fuel last year, in the rocky mountains. it works extrememly well. I had zero problems with the bike or the manitou shock. That's my mentality. I know it works well. Why complicate things?
    Last edited by packfill; 12-05-2006 at 10:16 AM.

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by packfill
    SWEET!! Take a stab at me without backing it up. Have you read the back to back comparisons of the turners with and without the hoist link? There almost no percievalbe difference.

    I put roughly 2,000 miles on my top fuel last year, in the rocky mountains. it works extrememly well. I had zero problems with the bike or the manitou shock. That's my mentality. I know it works well. Why complicate things?

    Heh, you sound like Larry King.........."what do I have to do to use a horst link?? Press a bunch of buttons or something?" Do you think stable platform shocks are simple? They are both complicated in theory but simple in design. Horst link bikes are no more complicated than shocks with inertia or snap valves (personally I think they are less complicated and result in much more consistent performance). It was more a combination of that and the " It's even American made" comment that sent me on a rant. Give me a break, for no other reason than your sinking economy should you be toting American bikes which often have extremely poor tolerances. Trek especially comes to mind after seeing many frames come de-glued or be out of alignment.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benno
    Heh, you sound like Larry King.........."what do I have to do to use a horst link?? Press a bunch of buttons or something?" Do you think stable platform shocks are simple? They are both complicated in theory but simple in design. Horst link bikes are no more complicated than shocks with inertia or snap valves (personally I think they are less complicated and result in much more consistent performance). It was more a combination of that and the " It's even American made" comment that sent me on a rant. Give me a break, for no other reason than your sinking economy should you be toting American bikes which often have extremely poor tolerances. Trek especially comes to mind after seeing many frames come de-glued or be out of alignment.[/COLOR]
    Yes, I was going to point that out, being american made is no reason to buy anything...

  59. #59
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    Talk about calling the kettle black? Your description of vpp, maestro, and dw link are wrong. You say they are added weight with no benefit. vpp/maestro designs add suspension compliance with no bob, no brake jack and no pedal feed back. Your trek has brake jack, pedal feed back and poor suspension compliance which is typical of a 4 point design.

    Quote Originally Posted by packfill
    SWEET!! Take a stab at me without backing it up. Have you read the back to back comparisons of the turners with and without the hoist link? There almost no percievalbe difference.

    I put roughly 2,000 miles on my top fuel last year, in the rocky mountains. it works extrememly well. I had zero problems with the bike or the manitou shock. That's my mentality. I know it works well. Why complicate things?
    OPEN Cycles One+ in stealthy black

  60. #60
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    Benno, leave the guy alone you're obviously talking apples vs oranges here. He's talking HOIST link and you're talking HORST link, 2 completely different linkages.

    Quote Originally Posted by Benno
    Your mentality reassures me that I am making the right decision to continuously buy Giants.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  61. #61
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    Hah yeah I didn't want to be petty............but it didn't go unnoticed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalgrm
    .... and since racers do their own maintenance work, they never take the bike back to the shop after they've set it up for themselves. Makes perfect sense now.

    Thanks,
    Graeme

    (only joking .... I just find it strange, that's all ....)
    When I'm researching a bike purchase, I don't want to know how much it weighs "after 959 pedals, monkey lite carbon 3/4" risers, 4 stickers, and a 1/2 full water bottle. I want to know what the freakin thing weighs OUT OF THE BOX...you know, the way I'll get it if I decide to purchase one. I can set it up from there.

  63. #63
    Girt by sea.
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    Quote Originally Posted by yater
    When I'm researching a bike purchase, I don't want to know how much it weighs "after 959 pedals, monkey lite carbon 3/4" risers, 4 stickers, and a 1/2 full water bottle. I want to know what the freakin thing weighs OUT OF THE BOX...you know, the way I'll get it if I decide to purchase one. I can set it up from there.
    Oh, that makes sense then.

    Tell me, where do any of the bike makers tell us how much their bikes weigh? You know, out of the box and all. The only times I ever see weights mentioned are on these forums, where people brag about how light they've made their bikes - after upgrades (and without pedals..... ).

    BTW, got my XtC down to 12lbs now. It's getting pretty hard to ride though.

    Cheers,
    Graeme
    What if the Hokey Pokey is what it's all about?
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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  64. #64
    bao
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    had an anthem 3 and replaced all compo...anthem now weighs in at 24.8


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