Results 1 to 19 of 19
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    301

    alternative to barbell squat?

    i've lost access to a good squat rack and would like to find an at home substitute for barbell squats. any suggestions?
    something about the west coast...it makes me wanna ride

  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation: cattledog04's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    153
    Quote Originally Posted by uncreative View Post
    i've lost access to a good squat rack and would like to find an at home substitute for barbell squats. any suggestions?
    Don't need a rack. Do RFESS (rear foot elevated split squats), Lateral Lunges, Single Leg Squats. Actually far better exercise because you aren't loading the spine.

  3. #3
    SamIAm
    Reputation: SamL3227's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    2,027
    GOBLET SQUAT!

    done.

    just google it. all u need is a dumbell or kettleball or just something heavy
    <(*-*<) Go Ride (>*-*)>

    05 SxT: totemcoil, dhxair, juicycarbons, LXcranks, X9kit, halo freedomdisc, deity compound pedals

  4. #4
    Hike it or Bike it!
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    288
    Quote Originally Posted by uncreative View Post
    i've lost access to a good squat rack and would like to find an at home substitute for barbell squats. any suggestions?
    Deadlifts

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    249
    +1 on the rear elevated foot split squats. They work great for building strength and balance.

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation: twyeld's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    133
    +1

    Actually, I am in a similar position but my problem is a lack of room for a rack and bar. So, what I have done is place the weights in a backpack which I struggle into on the floor and then deadlift and do squats from there - just be careful not to fall backwards. Works a treat!

    Oh - and I do one legged squats without weights too - a bit wobbly at first, but you can balance yourself between 2 chairs until you get the technique right. The problem with one-legged squats, I find, is getting deep/low enough...

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    530
    Rear elevated foot squats could still require a rack if done with a barbell. They also target a different area, the lower quad. They have nothing to do with developing balance either. Flat footed squats target the upper quad and butt.

    Lunges are a good alternative, but can stress the knee. Deadlifts, Dumbbell squats or the gobble squat would also be good alternatives. Try these versions, not the deadlift, and jump when coming up. This will develop explosiveness and power. You can also do the squat exercises with you heels elevated to target the lower quad. Remember not to go past parallel to the floor or slightly above. Any farther and the muscles are actually at rest, and you use more momentum than muscle to get up.

    1 leg squats are good too, and you can rest your non working leg on a bench or something, for balance.

    MTBers really get their power from the upper quad and butt. But you don't want to neglect the lower part either

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation: cattledog04's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    153
    Quote Originally Posted by mucky View Post
    Rear elevated foot squats could still require a rack if done with a barbell. They also target a different area, the lower quad. They have nothing to do with developing balance either. Flat footed squats target the upper quad and butt.

    Lunges are a good alternative, but can stress the knee. Deadlifts, Dumbbell squats or the gobble squat would also be good alternatives. Try these versions, not the deadlift, and jump when coming up. This will develop explosiveness and power. You can also do the squat exercises with you heels elevated to target the lower quad. Remember not to go past parallel to the floor or slightly above. Any farther and the muscles are actually at rest, and you use more momentum than muscle to get up.

    1 leg squats are good too, and you can rest your non working leg on a bench or something, for balance.

    MTBers really get their power from the upper quad and butt. But you don't want to neglect the lower part either
    Do not elevate the heel. There is nothing wrong with going past parallel, the muscles are not "at rest". Going to only 90 degree's can stress the knee more than a full range of motion, that is where the most shearing forces of the whole movement are on the patella. If the person has proper glute stability most likely the knee will be fine with going as deep as possible. We as humans were made to move in a full range of motion.

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    530
    Quote Originally Posted by cattledog04 View Post
    Do not elevate the heel.
    Sorry, misinterpreted the Rear foot elevated squat.

    Quote Originally Posted by cattledog04 View Post
    There is nothing wrong with going past parallel, the muscles are not "at rest". Going to only 90 degree's can stress the knee more than a full range of motion, that is where the most shearing forces of the whole movement are on the patella. If the person has proper glute stability most likely the knee will be fine with going as deep as possible. We as humans were made to move in a full range of motion.
    Actually there is more stress when you go farther. The ligaments are stretched farther, the skin tightens more compressing everything, and the patella puts more force on the femur.
    With squats, stress to the knee comes from too much weight, which puts stress on the Lateral and Medial Collateral ligaments, not the patella and patellar tendon. Muscle fatigue will also play a role in possible injury to the knee. This is the same for any joint.

    Real stress to the knee would come from the foot being out farther from the pelvis, or mid-line of the body, and trying to push straight up, like lunges or Hack squats or rear foot elevated squats. And yes going past parallel, the muscles are at rest at a certain point for a very short time. The idea is to keep stress on the muscle, and use the muscle to get back up.

    A perfect example is a baseball catcher. Do they sit behind the plate with their thigh parallel to the ground and their butt level with the knee? No! They sit past parallel, because of what I just explained. And the farther past parallel you go, the more you sit on your calf. And then you use your lower leg for resistance to bounce back up.

    Why don't you try doing this with no weight. Get in a squat position and stand with your thigh parallel to the ground. Then try your way, past parallel like a catcher, and see which way you can hold longer.

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation: cattledog04's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    153
    Quote Originally Posted by mucky View Post
    Sorry, misinterpreted the Rear foot elevated squat.



    Actually there is more stress when you go farther. The ligaments are stretched farther, the skin tightens more compressing everything, and the patella puts more force on the femur.
    With squats, stress to the knee comes from too much weight, which puts stress on the Lateral and Medial Collateral ligaments, not the patella and patellar tendon. Muscle fatigue will also play a role in possible injury to the knee. This is the same for any joint.

    Real stress to the knee would come from the foot being out farther from the pelvis, or mid-line of the body, and trying to push straight up, like lunges or Hack squats or rear foot elevated squats. And yes going past parallel, the muscles are at rest at a certain point for a very short time. The idea is to keep stress on the muscle, and use the muscle to get back up.

    A perfect example is a baseball catcher. Do they sit behind the plate with their thigh parallel to the ground and their butt level with the knee? No! They sit past parallel, because of what I just explained. And the farther past parallel you go, the more you sit on your calf. And then you use your lower leg for resistance to bounce back up.

    Why don't you try doing this with no weight. Get in a squat position and stand with your thigh parallel to the ground. Then try your way, past parallel like a catcher, and see which way you can hold longer.
    You are almost there with your analogies, just a little off the mark. The difference between catchers and an athlete performing an exercise is the obvious load. Here is a link with some good info that relates to reasons of knee pain. Solving Anterior Knee Pain

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    530
    Quote Originally Posted by cattledog04 View Post
    You are almost there with your analogies, just a little off the mark. The difference between catchers and an athlete performing an exercise is the obvious load. Here is a link with some good info that relates to reasons of knee pain. Solving Anterior Knee Pain
    I'm not off the mark, I'm right on. I mentioned that stress to the knee comes from too heavy off weight. I am aware of the various causes of knee pain. With a BS in Sports Medicine and a masters in Kinesiology, and 16 yrs as a Div-I AA trainer, I know what I am talking about. The argument is about the motion of the exercise and at what point you gain the most out of the exercise. This is exactly why I gave the comparison to a catcher

    If you read the whole article you linked, he says noting about doing a squat and having knee pain from a certain range of motion. And he's referring to Anterior pain, not pain in the patella or petaller tendon. He mentions the patella and it's tendon, but as a result of a weaker area and in relation to the aforementioned Anterior pain.
    I also stated that stress to the knee is more prevalent when the foot/feet are farther out from the hips. Like lunges and Hack Squats, as they stress the lower quad reducing the glutes contribution. Just as the guy in the article says.
    I also stated that raising the heels off the ground changes what muscles are used, targeting the lower quad. Just as the article stated. This is not a power movement like squats, so heavy weight does not apply, but it can be beneficial for overall leg development, when done properly. It is especially helpful for roadies, as they often move forward on the saddle to relieve the glutes and upper thigh, for a period of time.

  12. #12
    lgh
    lgh is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    413
    Pistols (one-legged squats)

    For starters, do them from the edge of a door. Put your toe at the edge, grab both door handles, do the squat. Doing them this way, your knee will not wander past your toe. That would be a no-no. Try to keep your non-performing leg straight.

    Larry

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    367
    "I think the biggest reason people do not perform full squats is because they believe its bad for the knees, sorry to say but this is wrong, full squats are actually better for the knees than half squats and that’s because full squats provide a full contraction of the hamstrings, glutes and quadriceps muscles, allowing you to drive up to the start position using momentum in the leg muscles and not from the knees."

    "Half squats are when you stop before your hips are parallel to the ground. The problem with only performing half a squat is that when you drive back up from the bottom of the movement you are not fully activating the hamstrings and gluteus to lift the weight, therefore the momentum of the weight is stopped by the quadriceps and knees, placing undue stresses and shear forces on the knees.

    Secondly, because the hamstrings and glutes are not as involved it causes imbalances between the hamstrings and quadriceps. The hamstrings are supposed to act as the antagonist of the quadriceps during a squat, but because the hips do not go below parallel this never actually happens. So if you were to continue training half squats for a period of time you would begin to see muscle imbalances between your quadriceps and hamstrings, which will also reduce your flexibility.

    Here is a quote about half squats from Dr. Mark Rippetoe: Strong enough, Thoughts from thirty years of barbell training, 2007:

    “The fundamental misunderstanding here is about what we’re trying to accomplish when we squat. The quadriceps are not the only muscles that are supposed to be involved in the exercise. The hamstring muscles on the back of the thigh attach at the front of the tibia, at the bottom of the knee, wrap around it on both sides and pull back on the knee from below it as they get tight. The adductors connect the groin area of the pelvis to the medial (inside) aspect of the femur, and these muscles also pull back on the knee when they tighten, but from above the knee and toward the inside. Both of these muscle groups tighten from behind the knee as the torso leans forward, the knees travel out to stay parallel to the feet, and the hips reach back of correct depth, balancing the forward pulling stress from the quadriceps and the patellar tendon around the ront of the knee. But they only exert this balancing pull when they are stretched, in the full squat position“

    So why would anyone want to perform half squats? Well half squats can be useful for strengthening your legs at the top of the movement and can really improve strength in your thighs. Also if you have a sticking point at the top of the movement half squats can really help with this as you can load the bar with a lot more weight."

    Full Squat Vs Half Squat, The Ongoing Debate!

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation: cattledog04's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    153
    ...and if you want more quad recruitment, the deeper you go the lower the quad is worked. Hence bringing in the Vastus Medialis.

  15. #15
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    301
    thanks for the suggestions. it looks like the rear foot elevated squat still requires a rack, though.

    i think i just need to find a cheap gym close to home or work.
    something about the west coast...it makes me wanna ride

  16. #16
    mtbr member
    Reputation: cattledog04's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    153
    Quote Originally Posted by uncreative View Post
    thanks for the suggestions. it looks like the rear foot elevated squat still requires a rack, though.

    i think i just need to find a cheap gym close to home or work.
    That is the beauty of the exercise, you do not need a rack. Hold a dumbbell or kettlebell in a goblet position, or hold said weights at your side.

    RFE Split Squat - YouTube

    I don't suggest theis weight, just an example how to hold the load.
    Rear Foot Elevated Split Squat w/ added rom - YouTube

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    1
    I just picked up a trap bar off Craigs list.

    Seems to load the quads more than a dead lift.

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,978
    I also do Hindu Squats ala Laird Hamilton. A nice change of pace to dumb bell squats.

  19. #19
    lgh
    lgh is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    413
    Quote Originally Posted by mucky View Post
    I also stated that raising the heels off the ground changes what muscles are used, targeting the lower quad. Just as the article stated. This is not a power movement like squats, so heavy weight does not apply, but it can be beneficial for overall leg development, when done properly. It is especially helpful for roadies, as they often move forward on the saddle to relieve the glutes and upper thigh, for a period of time.

    Mucky - I want to be clear. You are suggesting what for overall leg development. Thanks.

    Larry

Similar Threads

  1. Do I want some brake squat?
    By dusttrails in forum Downhill - Freeride
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: 08-14-2010, 10:36 AM
  2. I don't know squat? I casual thought.
    By GhisalloWheels in forum Shocks and Suspension
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 09-04-2009, 12:27 AM
  3. Denver Velo Squat
    By hairstream in forum Vintage, Retro, Classic
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 11-16-2008, 03:02 PM
  4. jack/squat
    By nhodge in forum Knolly
    Replies: 36
    Last Post: 08-12-2008, 09:57 AM
  5. does your bike squat during climbs?
    By SinglePivot in forum Kona
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 03-25-2004, 07:31 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •