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  1. #1
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    6'1" top tube length and saddle to bar drop?....

    I am not a hard core racer but thought I would come to the XC forum and ask for a general range. I just built a 29er HT XC bike and am dialing in the fit. I believe I am on the right size frame but since I am getting near max. stem length, maybe I am not dialing in enough drop relative to horizontal reach. I am always baffled by how much horizontal reach versus drop to set up as each as you know is a significant contributor to overall reach and effect to torso angle in profile. I somethings think that I run too much horizontal reach and not enough drop. Maybe my torso when close to 45 degrees to vertical nominally is better supported with my arms under me versus out and higher.

    Height: Just over 6', with longish arms and legs and my set up is:
    24.5" top tube, size Large frame
    saddle height approx 1.08 X 35" inseam and even with bar height
    130mm stem

    OK...some of you 6'+ guys have anguished about your set up.
    What are your spec's if you don't mind?
    Many Thanks.

  2. #2
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    I'm 6'-1" with arms about 1.5" longer than "typical" and I am comfortable on a large frame with a 600mm HTT length running a 110mm stem with a 660mm wide bar, or a 100mm stem with a 685mm wide bar. I typically run about 1" of bar to saddle drop using 3/4" rise bars.
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  3. #3
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    Rockyuphill so your bars are 1" higher then seat height? Just trying to be sure...

    I a bit clueless on this stuff and would appreciate it if someone would describe the relationship between reach, saddle, bar height and performance and comfort.\

    thx
    Originally Posted by XC62701
    Agreed...make it longer. I want to know death is an option

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockyuphill
    I'm 6'-1" with arms about 1.5" longer than "typical" and I am comfortable on a large frame with a 600mm HTT length running a 110mm stem with a 660mm wide bar, or a 100mm stem with a 685mm wide bar. I typically run about 1" of bar to saddle drop using 3/4" rise bars.
    Based upon what you wrote rock...my cockpit length is almost 2 full inches longer than yours and we are the same size. Now...you are running 1 inch more drop than me which brings us back closer...but not a lot. What kind of torso angle in profile do you ride with when arms are slightly bent? I don't even feel that aggressive...likely not even at 45 deg. to vertical...and that's even with a setback Thomson stem.
    Curious what you other guys are set up with?
    Thanks.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Okie Dokie
    Rockyuphill so your bars are 1" higher then seat height? Just trying to be sure...

    I a bit clueless on this stuff and would appreciate it if someone would describe the relationship between reach, saddle, bar height and performance and comfort.\

    thx
    Okie,
    If you are serious about racing XC or training, go on line and read all you can about fit. There are volumes out there and the relationships aren't cut and dried. In general, the casual rider prefers a more upright position with shorter stem and top tube and higher handlebar. This is not as comfortable for a performance rider. The guys on the XC forum like speed and that means they like to be a bit more stretched out with a bit lower bar. Within that range there is still a far amount of variability....largely personal preference. For example...even though rocky and I are the same size, I would feel downright cramped with his set up and no doubt he would feel too stretched out with mine. The purpose of my post is to understand the range of fit for a guy my size and many here are competitive racers and we can all learn from shared experience.
    Hope that helps.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Okie Dokie
    Rockyuphill so your bars are 1" higher then seat height? Just trying to be sure...

    I a bit clueless on this stuff and would appreciate it if someone would describe the relationship between reach, saddle, bar height and performance and comfort.\

    thx
    Other way around, bars about 1" lower, when I ran flat bars they were about 2" lower.

    The distance between the nose of the saddle and the centre of the bars in the stem clamp is 22.75"
    I'm a member of NSMBA and IMBA Canada

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockyuphill
    Other way around, bars about 1" lower, when I ran flat bars they were about 2" lower.

    The distance between the nose of the saddle and the centre of the bars in the stem clamp is 22.75"
    Rocky...tip of saddle to center of bars in stem clamp measures 23.75" or one inch more horizontal reach for my bike. My saddle is even with the bars and you are running a 1 inch drop so that accounts for some of the difference in our fit. The other thing is...bar backsweep matters. I am running a 10 deg. Salsa riser and if you are running a straighter bar with less backsweep that will elongate your reach as well. A good metric I map for my fit is tip of saddle to center of grip. This takes into account the width of the bars as well. Mine measures 24.75". If you have a chance let me know what yours measures.
    Thanks.

  8. #8
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    23.75" from saddle tip to centre of grip.
    I'm a member of NSMBA and IMBA Canada

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtrider7
    Okie,
    If you are serious about racing XC or training, go on line and read all you can about fit. There are volumes out there and the relationships aren't cut and dried. In general, the casual rider prefers a more upright position with shorter stem and top tube and higher handlebar. This is not as comfortable for a performance rider. The guys on the XC forum like speed and that means they like to be a bit more stretched out with a bit lower bar. Within that range there is still a far amount of variability....largely personal preference. For example...even though rocky and I are the same size, I would feel downright cramped with his set up and no doubt he would feel too stretched out with mine. The purpose of my post is to understand the range of fit for a guy my size and many here are competitive racers and we can all learn from shared experience.
    Hope that helps.
    Rocky also lives in Vancouver. Chances are your trails and his trails are completely different. Bike set-up usually reflects the type of trails you ride on the most.

  10. #10
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    Guys,
    Point I have been thinking about is in order to not feel cramped, maybe I have been moving my handlebars too far out and not far enough down. This is apparent by comparing my set up to Rocky for example. His set up maybe a bit better for torso support and power delivery. The metric of tip of saddle to middle of grip by itself isn't that meaningful without factoring in drop. For those math heads out there this analogous to a radian dimension from the saddle. With the same radius from the tip of the saddle to grip however with bigger drop, this moves the handlebar well away from the shoulder joint for a more stretched out position with a given stem length.
    The following article illustrates this implicitly:
    http://www.discovermountainbiking.co.../handlebar.asp
    If you look at the bike below and then with rider aboard, this is not a horizontally long cockpit by any means. The rider achieves a stretched out position on a fairly small bike relative to his body size by virtue of a 3" drop which brings him to an aggressive 45 degree torso position.
    This way his hands support his torso weight better underneath him versus more of a stretched out hammock position of higher bars with saddle more level to the handlebars...how I believe I am set up.
    See pics below and please provide your comments as most that are interested in competitive racing or just being efficient riders have toiled with their set up quite a bit.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 6'1" top tube length and saddle to bar drop?....-3-inch-drop.jpg  

    6'1" top tube length and saddle to bar drop?....-attackposition.jpg  


  11. #11
    LMN
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    Well at a glace there is a couple of thing I would try.

    1st: Your seat. My god man rubbers are not that bad, you don't need to use the seat up your arse method of birth control. Try putting that seat in a position closer to level.

    2nd: You appear to have fairly long femures and your seat is quite far forward. You could try moving it back on the rails. You knee directly over the pedal or slightly behind it in the 3:00 and 9:00 position is a good starting point.

    3rd: Your stem and bar position don't look that bad. The length looks good, maybe try a bit lower.

    4th: You are on a duallie small things like a soft of a rear shock can mess with everything.

  12. #12
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    LMN,
    Thanks for your comments, but that isn't me. It is a article from an experienced rider that is set up perhaps the polar opposite of how I am, i.e. short horizontal component of reach but bigger drop. Net reach as you know is comprised of both horizontal and vertical components. I am stretched out horizontally with no drop. Purpose of this thread is to understand how other 6''er are set up for XC riding.
    Thanks.

  13. #13
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    I'm also running RF Next seatposts with 19mm of setback, with the rails pretty much centered on the clamps, I have a moderately long legs and size 12 feet, and a normal torso length so having my butt further back on the bike works for me. As LMN mentions, in this part of the world you don't want too much weight forward on the bike for descending so the setup is a compromise for steep climbs and descents.

    The top of my saddle is 41" above grade and the top of the grips is 40" above grade on all three hardtails.

    On my FS bike the bars are now 3/4" below the saddle height after switching to the Edge Composites 700mm wide flat bar, and I like that much better than level bars for climbing, so far it hasn't hurt descending, but jeez 700mm bars sure gets close to tree trunks now.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 6'1" top tube length and saddle to bar drop?....-2010_0306new0010.jpg  

    Last edited by rockyuphill; 04-24-2010 at 07:50 PM.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockyuphill
    I'm also running RF Next seatposts with 19mm of setback, with the rails pretty much centered on the clamps, I have a moderately long legs and size 12 feet, and a normal torso length so having my butt further back on the bike works for me. As LMN mentions, in this part of the world you don't want too much weight forward on the bike for descending so the setup is a compromise for steep climbs and descents.

    The top of my saddle is 41" above grade and the top of the grips is 40" above grade on all three hardtails.

    On my FS bike the bars are now 3/4" below the saddle height after switching to the Edge Composites 700mm wide flat bar, and I like that much better than level bars for climbing, so far it hasn't hurt descending, but jeez 700mm bars sure gets close to tree trunks now.
    Rocky thanks for your response. I think I figured out why I was feeling a bit cramped. Your cockpit config. sounds correct as I believe we are identically sized. My top of saddle is 41.25" from ground and my handlebar is 42.25" up. So my bars are 1 inch above the saddle and therefore closer to my shoulder joints and why I feel a bit cramped. This is my first 29er build and I went with a riser handlebar and should have gone with a flat bar. The 29er even with a relatively short head tube as you know gets the bars up without a lot of help....good for guys like us to a point. I inverted my stem and now the bars are more level with the saddle and my fit feels more dialed...and is directionally closer to yours...mine with a bit more horizontal reach with 130mm versus 110mm stem but yours with bit more drop...1 inch versus bars level with my saddle....net fit being close to a wash. I will look for a suitable flat bar.
    Thanks again for your detailed response.

  15. #15
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    Edge Composites makes a 700mm carbon mountain sweep bar that has 9deg of sweep. I have it rotated up slightly to provide a similar position to a riser bar. Easton makes a 700mm alloy bar as well.
    I'm a member of NSMBA and IMBA Canada

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockyuphill
    Edge Composites makes a 700mm carbon mountain sweep bar that has 9deg of sweep. I have it rotated up slightly to provide a similar position to a riser bar. Easton makes a 700mm alloy bar as well.
    Thanks again. Your bike looks great btw. Must be the picture but your bars look to be at least 2" below your saddle.
    Cheers.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtrider7
    Thanks again. Your bike looks great btw. Must be the picture but your bars look to be at least 2" below your saddle.
    Cheers.
    The centre of the bars and stem appears about 2" lower, but the 3/4" rise bars and the ODI grips bring it back up again at the grips.
    I'm a member of NSMBA and IMBA Canada

  18. #18
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    i am 6' 1" and ride a large w/ 23.75" top tube race face set back seat post 120mm stem and 27.5" wide 3/4 riser bars. perfect fit
    Ride & Smile

  19. #19
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    Matt, your wide bar does lengthen your reach but I am running a full inch+ longer cockpit.
    Your fit sounds very close to Rocky's. Are you running a drop from saddle to handlebars as well? It must be my higher handlebar that requires a longer horizontal reach to compensate.
    Thanks.

  20. #20
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    my legs are on the lankey side so the drop is about 2 to 2.5 inches depending on the seat that i am running.
    Ride & Smile

  21. #21
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    Thanks. Your fit is virtually the same as Rockies although you are running just a bit more drop. Since the three of us are built the same...6'1" with longish legs and arms, I now better understand why I need a longer stem on my size Large bike. You guys get your net reach to the bars by the horizontal reach you posted and drop and I get approx. the same reach by a longer horizontal dimension but a higher handlebar.
    Thanks for your sharing your setups.

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