Page 1 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 133
  1. #1
    Giant Anthem
    Reputation: 2fst4u's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    701

    310 Watts for 20 minutes, 4.5 watts per kilogram, non-typical plan to get there.

    To me 4.5 watts per kilogram for 20 min is a challenging goal, but according to this chart it would equate to cat 1 level fitness I hope it would make me faster on the trail.

    310 Watts for 20 minutes, 4.5 watts per kilogram, non-typical plan to get there.-30-min-tt.gif

    The funny thing is that I've already been riding (surviving) my last two seasons as a Cat 1 mountain biker with my 20 minute power around 260W, 3.7 watts per kilogram. I did do Cat 1 nationals this year (Finished at the bottom of the barrel)

    I'm thinking of a non-typical strategy this year for getting to my goal of 4.5 watts per kilogram for 20 min. 315ish watts for me.

    The plan would be performing intervals throughout the winter and spring at 315 watts, starting at 2-3 minutes once every 7-10 days then adding 2 or so minutes each month until late spring/early summer until I make the 20 minutes at 315W (4.5 wpk) (I haven't fully explored a full interval breakdown but just throwing out numbers)

    This would be an alternative to the typical plan of basing all your training zones on your current Functional Threshold Power and basing it, instead on the power you want to reach. Your just simply starting with intervals at small amounts of time at your 20 min power goal. Of course I would do base training and race prep/"build" periods with typical threshold intervals and such.

    Overall it would be high intensity for a short duration yet the duration would increase and the intensity would decrease because you are adapting to the intervals as you go.

    Any thoughts on this strategy. You could call it "working your 20 minute watt goal by performing intervals at that wattage"
    Racing and Training Blog
    http://dirtandgears.blogspot.com/

  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation: WR304's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    3,735

    310 Watts for 20 minutes, 4.5 watts per kilogram, non-typical plan to get there.

    How long can you hold 315 watts for currently?

    Unless you've been doing something horribly horribly wrong with your training the past few years increasing your 20 minute power by 55 watts in just 6 months sounds like a big ask to me.

    It's always good to set an ambitious goal though. See how close you get.

  3. #3
    Giant Anthem
    Reputation: 2fst4u's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    701
    Not sure how long I can hold 315W, not very. I'm somewhat new to my power meter, so maybe I'm not a good judge of how much a persons FTP can improve in a 6 month period. One thing is for sure, the guys leading the Cat 1 pack are very fast and if I ever hope to podium I need to be able to get those numbers or something close. I guess I'm getting a bit frustrated... this was my second season as Cat 1 and nowhere close to the top 3-4 guys, and not a whole bunch of improvement. (My job killed my training this summer) I realize the improvement curve slows once you are more experienced but I hope to improve at a better rate in 2014.
    Racing and Training Blog
    http://dirtandgears.blogspot.com/

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation: WR304's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    3,735

    310 Watts for 20 minutes, 4.5 watts per kilogram, non-typical plan to get there.

    I'd be inclined to do a 315 watt test (see how long you can hold it) and also a 20 minute FTP test quite soon, so that you have some baseline figures to start from.

    Your form and power output is likely to vary naturally with peaks and troughs during the year. If you can hold 260 watts for 20 minutes at your peak fitness in the summer then during the winter off season you'll probably find that your current best 20 minute power is lower, possibly by a lot, than 260 watts at the moment.

    If you've been riding and training continuously for several years it's harder to pull out major improvements year on year, especially when you're comparing peak to peak power outputs. These were my 20 minute test results from 2011 through to August 2012 for comparison.



    http://forums.mtbr.com/xc-racing-tra...l#post10765917

    Getting big improvements in power output is easily do-able, if you're starting from a very low fitness level to begin with. My best 20 minute power now (mid November 2013) is at least 34 watts higher than it was three months ago in mid September 2013. That's because I hadn't ridden a bike for a year previously (due to my broken leg) so there were plenty of easy gains to be made.

  5. #5
    Registered Dietitian
    Reputation: tommyrod74's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    1,267
    Quote Originally Posted by 2fst4u View Post
    Not sure how long I can hold 315W, not very. I'm somewhat new to my power meter, so maybe I'm not a good judge of how much a persons FTP can improve in a 6 month period. One thing is for sure, the guys leading the Cat 1 pack are very fast and if I ever hope to podium I need to be able to get those numbers or something close. I guess I'm getting a bit frustrated... this was my second season as Cat 1 and nowhere close to the top 3-4 guys, and not a whole bunch of improvement. (My job killed my training this summer) I realize the improvement curve slows once you are more experienced but I hope to improve at a better rate in 2014.
    The chart you posted refers to road categories... which don't really align with MTB categories.

    The average Cat 1 MTB racer (if they race road) is usually a Cat 4 or maybe 3 on the road. Most Pro MTB racers I know are Cat 3 or Cat 2 on the road. A Cat 1 road racer has a big engine, and if they are relatively light and can handle a bike make for a very formidable MTB racer.

    LMN (who should know) says that there are guys doing well in World Cup XCO races who put out a little less than 5.0 w/kg at FTP (60 minute power), for reference.

    How many years have you been racing and training? It takes a few years of consistent riding and training (without long interruptions) to reach your potential; I'm still improving 7 years in.

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    873
    [QUOTE=tommyrod74;10818591]The chart you posted refers to road categories... which don't really align with MTB categories.

    The average Cat 1 MTB racer (if they race road) is usually a Cat 4 or maybe 3 on the road. Most Pro MTB racers I know are Cat 3 or Cat 2 on the road. A Cat 1 road racer has a big engine, and if they are relatively light and can handle a bike make for a very formidable MTB racer.
    QUOTE]

    this has to be 1 of the most absurd statements I've read...the only reason a pro
    mtb racer wouldn't be the same level on the road is because they don't race enough to
    get the points to cat up...you honestly think the people racing mtb's have less engines
    then the roadies...give me a break

  7. #7
    mnoutain bkie rdier
    Reputation: rydbyk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    2,768
    [QUOTE=peabody;10818613]
    Quote Originally Posted by tommyrod74 View Post
    The chart you posted refers to road categories... which don't really align with MTB categories.

    The average Cat 1 MTB racer (if they race road) is usually a Cat 4 or maybe 3 on the road. Most Pro MTB racers I know are Cat 3 or Cat 2 on the road. A Cat 1 road racer has a big engine, and if they are relatively light and can handle a bike make for a very formidable MTB racer.
    QUOTE]

    this has to be 1 of the most absurd statements I've read...the only reason a pro
    mtb racer wouldn't be the same level on the road is because they don't race enough to
    get the points to cat up...you honestly think the people racing mtb's have less engines
    then the roadies...give me a break
    From a pure fitness standpoint, trod is sorta correct. I ride with some Cat 1 roadies who now race Cat 2 mtbs and get humbled out there because they are too timid in the turns and descents and anything technical anywhere up or down...

    I would say that a podium Cat 1 mtb'er in S. Calif is a podium Cat 3 roadie from a fitness standpoint....perhaps a pack fill Cat 2 roadie if they have learned to anticipate breaks and know how to race smart on the road.

    If and when they finally learn how to ride an mtb, look out!!!

    Is what it is...

    It is important to consider how said roadie earned their Cat 1 status. For example, are they crit specialists only? If so, forget about it. If they earned their Cat 1 roadie status in legit road races that actually have climbs, well...then they are legit engines and will make one heck of an mtb'er if they can ride an mtb.

    On the other hand...many top World Cup mtb'ers such as Sagan and Evans etc etc etc have gone on to dominate the pro ranks on the road!!

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    873
    [QUOTE=rydbyk;10818650]
    Quote Originally Posted by peabody View Post

    From a pure fitness standpoint, trod is sorta correct. I ride with some Cat 1 roadies who now race Cat 2 mtbs and get humbled out there because they are too timid in the turns and descents and anything technical anywhere up or down...

    I would say that a podium Cat 1 mtb'er in S. Calif is a podium Cat 3 roadie from a fitness standpoint....perhaps a pack fill Cat 2 roadie if they have learned to anticipate breaks and know how to race smart on the road.

    If and when they finally learn how to ride an mtb, look out!!!

    Is what it is...

    It is important to consider how said roadie earned their Cat 1 status. For example, are they crit specialists only? If so, forget about it. If they earned their Cat 1 roadie status in legit road races that actually have climbs, well...then they are legit engines and will make one heck of an mtb'er if they can ride an mtb.

    On the other hand...many top World Cup mtb'ers such as Sagan and Evans etc etc etc have gone on to dominate the pro ranks on the road!!
    yeah my point...the local pro road guys I know all race local pro mtb
    when you're fast you're fast, doesn't matter the road or mtb

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation: 8iking VIIking's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    909

    Re: 310 Watts for 20 minutes, 4.5 watts per kilogram, non-typical plan to get there.

    [QUOTE=peabody;10818661]
    Quote Originally Posted by rydbyk View Post

    yeah my point...the local pro road guys I know all race local pro mtb
    when you're fast you're fast, doesn't matter the road or mtb
    Sure it does. Road racing is all about your engine. You need technical skills for MTB racing

  10. #10
    Registered Dietitian
    Reputation: tommyrod74's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    1,267
    [QUOTE=peabody;10818613]
    Quote Originally Posted by tommyrod74 View Post
    The chart you posted refers to road categories... which don't really align with MTB categories.

    The average Cat 1 MTB racer (if they race road) is usually a Cat 4 or maybe 3 on the road. Most Pro MTB racers I know are Cat 3 or Cat 2 on the road. A Cat 1 road racer has a big engine, and if they are relatively light and can handle a bike make for a very formidable MTB racer.
    QUOTE]

    this has to be 1 of the most absurd statements I've read...the only reason a pro
    mtb racer wouldn't be the same level on the road is because they don't race enough to
    get the points to cat up...you honestly think the people racing mtb's have less engines
    then the roadies...give me a break
    The competition is less deep in MTB racing. It's easier to move up by scoring points.

    75% of the guys racing Cat 5 crits, assuming they can handle a bike offroad, would blow the doors off a midpack Cat 2 MTB racer.

    At least 50% of those starting a Cat 3 MTB race couldn't finish an "A" group road ride with the front group... and that's a competitive fun training ride, not a race... and that's WITH drafting.

    At the top level of pro, i.e. World Cup or top national level XC pro, sure, those guys have big, big engines. Your average local Cat 1 has nowhere near the w/kg of the average road Cat 1, and that's just a fact.

    A road pro = has a pro team contract, that's how a road Cat 1 becomes a Pro. No pro team contract required to race pro/elite MTB. Moving up on the road is also much more difficult once you get to Cat 3 and up, vs. MTB where I recall simply signing up as a Cat 1 (at a USAC race) and being allowed to do so.

    Many Cat 1 and Pro MTB racers don't race very often on the road, true, but many do, and they still usually aren't Cat 1 or Pro on the road.

    Should I continue, or can you contribute a different experience? What categories (road, MTB) do you race again?

  11. #11
    Registered Dietitian
    Reputation: tommyrod74's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    1,267
    [QUOTE=rydbyk;10818650]
    Quote Originally Posted by peabody View Post

    From a pure fitness standpoint, trod is sorta correct. I ride with some Cat 1 roadies who now race Cat 2 mtbs and get humbled out there because they are too timid in the turns and descents and anything technical anywhere up or down...

    I would say that a podium Cat 1 mtb'er in S. Calif is a podium Cat 3 roadie from a fitness standpoint....perhaps a pack fill Cat 2 roadie if they have learned to anticipate breaks and know how to race smart on the road.

    If and when they finally learn how to ride an mtb, look out!!!

    Is what it is...

    It is important to consider how said roadie earned their Cat 1 status. For example, are they crit specialists only? If so, forget about it. If they earned their Cat 1 roadie status in legit road races that actually have climbs, well...then they are legit engines and will make one heck of an mtb'er if they can ride an mtb.

    On the other hand...many top World Cup mtb'ers such as Sagan and Evans etc etc etc have gone on to dominate the pro ranks on the road!!
    The point about road vs. crit points is a very good observation, and generally true. The reverse is true, too - if one is a great MTB racer but lightweight, and most road racing in the area is crits with few open road races, it's more likely you won't move up as quickly on the road side, as it won't suit your strengths.

  12. #12
    Registered Dietitian
    Reputation: tommyrod74's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    1,267
    [QUOTE=peabody;10818661]
    Quote Originally Posted by rydbyk View Post

    yeah my point...the local pro road guys I know all race local pro mtb
    when you're fast you're fast, doesn't matter the road or mtb
    But is the reverse true? Do all the Cat 1 MTB guys race Cat 1 road? Because that's the difference.

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    298
    I agree with peabody, that was a pretty absurd statement regarding MTB vs roadies. You sure can do those comparison if looking at the average MTB rider you know but in general, there is not much difference between both. The main difference probably resides in MTbers generally taking themselves less seriously then roadies. I raced road, and now race MTB, and trust me, there are a bunch of average fitness dudes riding the elite pack on the road. Same goes for MTB racing.

    There is a meta analysis comparing measures in pro XC racers and pro roadies and both are basically equivalent, with the pro MTBers sometimes having as high or higher w/kg ratio then TdF climbers.

    Racing a bike is so much more then w/kg and fitness.

    To the OP: im not sure your strategy is optimal, starting with short duration intervals and progressing to longer durations may prove to be too little stimulus to induce adaptations. I'd work more around some high intensity efforts and steadier efforts at higher and lwoer power output, respectively.

  14. #14
    Registered Dietitian
    Reputation: tommyrod74's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    1,267
    Quote Originally Posted by Devincicx View Post
    I agree with peabody, that was a pretty absurd statement regarding MTB vs roadies. You sure can do those comparison if looking at the average MTB rider you know but in general, there is not much difference between both. The main difference probably resides in MTbers generally taking themselves less seriously then roadies. I raced road, and now race MTB, and trust me, there are a bunch of average fitness dudes riding the elite pack on the road. Same goes for MTB racing.

    There is a meta analysis comparing measures in pro XC racers and pro roadies and both are basically equivalent, with the pro MTBers sometimes having as high or higher w/kg ratio then TdF climbers.

    Racing a bike is so much more then w/kg and fitness.

    To the OP: im not sure your strategy is optimal, starting with short duration intervals and progressing to longer durations may prove to be too little stimulus to induce adaptations. I'd work more around some high intensity efforts and steadier efforts at higher and lwoer power output, respectively.
    Again, you're talking about top-level pros in each sport, and the engines are certainly comparable.

    The OP was talking about local Cat 1 Mtb racing. There is a HUGE variance in Cat 1 power output, which makes sense as all you have to do to get to Cat 1 is podium 5 times in Cat 2 and apply for an upgrade. Cat 2 requires NO points to upgrade from Cat 3.

    You can therefore become a Cat 1 MTB racer by podiuming 5 Podunk races with only 1-2 other decent riders.

    Becoming a Cat 1 road racer is much harder. Much deeper fields, and many more points required. On top of that, most Cat 2 races are combined with pro and Cat 1 fields except at very large races, so to get upgrade points you have to Place against Cat 1 and pro racers. Not only that, there is less incentive to move up... because you already race pros and Cat 1s, why bother?

    The Cat 2 road upgrade (from 3) also means all of a sudden you are doing pro distances in open road races. 75-100 mile road races = much more training volume (average 12-18 hrs/week) for most Cat 2 roadies I know (unless they only race crits).

    How many Cat 2 MTB guys you know are training 12-18 hrs/week? Most Cat 1s I know don't do that much. Because they don't have to.

    Again, post what categories you race and your experiences. I race pro XC and Cat 1 CX. Only Cat 3 on road, though I'll likely move up this year.

    While several of the local Cat 1 Mtb guys are good (Cat 3) road racers, many others are Cat 4 / 5 packfill. There's a very wide range of engines in Cat 1 Mtb, and the average isn't anywhere near the average Cat 1 road level.

    I'd also point out that anyone you know in the pro/elite road field with "average" fitness is likely a gifted sprinter or a supremely talented crit racer who can make up for a lack of w/kg by racing very intelligently. There is no one of "average fitness" finishing with the leaders in a climb-heavy open road race, that should be obvious.

  15. #15
    LMN
    LMN is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    3,469
    First of all 55 watts is a big ask. Honestly, 50 watts is generally difference between peak form and completely out shape. Not saying it isn't possible but over a single year, not likely. Now combine and increase in power with a loss of weight and you are starting to get some where.

    As for the Categories: Cat 1 on the road and Cat 1 on the mountain bike don't really align. Cat 1 on road is the highest category you can race in, in mountain biking there is the Elite Category after Cat 1.

    Cat 1 on MTB is lot closer to Cat 3 on road. Both generally represent very dedicated racers, who prioritize working, school or family over racing. When you get into Cat 1-2, or Elite MTB you get a lot of racers for whom racing is their main priority.

    For OP, I am fairly competitive in Cat 1 on the MTB, not winning but it seems no matter where I race (and I have raced in a lot of places) I am 3-8th. When I am on top form my CP20 is around 4.0. Generally I have stronger technical skills then guys I race with, but that is often offset by poor nutrition well racing, and not always getting the most out of my fitness (i.e. mentally weak). If you can get around 4.0 and have sufficient technical skills you should be competitive.
    "The best pace is suicide pace, and today is a good day to die." Steve Prefontaine

  16. #16
    Registered Dietitian
    Reputation: tommyrod74's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    1,267
    Thanks, LMN.

    I'd add that I'm usually around 4.8-4.9 w/kg. First season in the new category I usually finished lower podium (3rd-5th) in pro/elite, better in mass-start marathon and endurance races (won several this year). I usually finish a couple of minutes ahead of the fastest Cat 1 at any given XC race.

  17. #17
    Giant Anthem
    Reputation: 2fst4u's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    701
    Quote Originally Posted by LMN View Post
    First of all 55 watts is a big ask. Honestly, 50 watts is generally difference between peak form and completely out shape. Not saying it isn't possible but over a single year, not likely. Now combine and increase in power with a loss of weight and you are starting to get some where.

    As for the Categories: Cat 1 on the road and Cat 1 on the mountain bike don't really align. Cat 1 on road is the highest category you can race in, in mountain biking there is the Elite Category after Cat 1.

    Cat 1 on MTB is lot closer to Cat 3 on road. Both generally represent very dedicated racers, who prioritize working, school or family over racing. When you get into Cat 1-2, or Elite MTB you get a lot of racers for whom racing is their main priority.

    For OP, I am fairly competitive in Cat 1 on the MTB, not winning but it seems no matter where I race (and I have raced in a lot of places) I am 3-8th. When I am on top form my CP20 is around 4.0. Generally I have stronger technical skills then guys I race with, but that is often offset by poor nutrition well racing, and not always getting the most out of my fitness (i.e. mentally weak). If you can get around 4.0 and have sufficient technical skills you should be competitive.
    Good point... I didn't think through regarding the chart being based on road riders. Your comparison of Cat 3 road and Cat 1 MT bike seems very accurate for me as I train with roadies (on the road and off) and they burn me on the road and I burn them on the trail.

    4.0 sounds a bit more realistic and a little more doable than 4.6... Thanks for the input.
    Racing and Training Blog
    http://dirtandgears.blogspot.com/

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation: jcm01's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    231
    2fast - good luck dude. Always good to have goals!

    Regarding the chart, it is indeed based of road categories - which as Tommy and LMN indicated, don't align. It's just a fact.

  19. #19
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    594
    Quote Originally Posted by 2fst4u View Post
    Any thoughts on this strategy. You could call it "working your 20 minute watt goal by performing intervals at that wattage"
    I have never heard of that strategy.

    Basically you would be doing VO2 max intervals. 120% is usually the high end of range to do 3-5m intervals with equal amount of rest in between efforts.

    If you are looking for any other ideas maybe these from Hunter Allen can help

    Hunter Allen Peaks Coaching Group: How to Rebuild Your Power Foundation

    Doing just 2,3&4 helped me last off season
    Peaks Coaching: Take Your Performance to the Next Level

  20. #20
    mnoutain bkie rdier
    Reputation: rydbyk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    2,768
    How did quotes that I didn't make end up as my quotes?? Haha. Never seen that before.

    Good luck 2fast!

  21. #21
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Poncharelli's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    2,196
    I'll confirm what everyone else said. CP20 around 4 is just about right for doing well in Expert/Cat 1.

    Each summer I'm about 3.8-3.9 based on CP20. In our local Expert class (non-sanctioned in Utah) I'm out of the top 10, usually about 12th - 19th out of 25-30 or so. When I did well in Nationals Cat 2 last year, I believe I was probably pushing 4 W/kg for CP20, mainly because of some good weight loss (160 on the dot).

    Coincidentally, I hold a Cat 3 license on the road, but I have some strengths that are well suited there. My CP5 is about 340-350W and I hit a 5s PR of 1180W this past season at 46 yrs old (crossfit?). But my CP1 ain't the greatest at around 500W (not by road racing standards) and I don't recover as fast after hard efforts compared to younger guys.

    Now I race Masters 1-2-3 exclusively on the road and I'm definitely at the very tail end of that group. I think I've only broken the top half twice. A dude I know won the state Masters road race and he said he hit 600W for a minute to win the short uphill finish and he only weighs like 135. That's insane.
    Last edited by Poncharelli; 11-18-2013 at 07:58 AM.
    Head Coach, Ben Lomond HS MTB Team
    www.utahmtb.org
    Cycling Team and local Club:
    http://www.roostersbikersedge.com/

  22. #22
    mtbr member
    Reputation: serious's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    3,023
    Something just does not add up here. Below are my average power numbers straight out of the PowerAgent tool I use with the CycleOps 300 Pro. Everything was achieved indoors at 147 lbs and I am 51 years old.

    My FTP (CP60) puts me at 3.65 W/Kg and the CP20 puts me at 4 W/Kg. But I cannot come close to hanging with Experts in short races. Even in Sport class I struggle to hit top 5. I only do well in long, endurance races (as in 5-8 hours).

    So I have no idea how you guys manage to do well with 4 W/Kg at 20 minutes. Here in Ontario I am sure you need 4 W/Kg for 60 minutes (FTP) to do well in Expert category.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    My rides:
    Lynskey Ti Pro29 SL singlespeed
    KHS Team 29
    S-Works Roubaix SL3 Dura Ace
    Pake French 75 track

  23. #23
    Registered Dietitian
    Reputation: tommyrod74's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    1,267
    Quote Originally Posted by serious View Post
    Something just does not add up here. Below are my average power numbers straight out of the PowerAgent tool I use with the CycleOps 300 Pro. Everything was achieved indoors at 147 lbs and I am 51 years old.

    My FTP (CP60) puts me at 3.65 W/Kg and the CP20 puts me at 4 W/Kg. But I cannot come close to hanging with Experts in short races. Even in Sport class I struggle to hit top 5. I only do well in long, endurance races (as in 5-8 hours).

    So I have no idea how you guys manage to do well with 4 W/Kg at 20 minutes. Here in Ontario I am sure you need 4 W/Kg for 60 minutes (FTP) to do well in Expert category.
    The short answer is it's not just about FTP, unless you are simply doing a time trial.

    Most XC races start with a sustained effort well above FTP (up to 10+ minutes), and you'll have repeated efforts above FTP when climbing or putting in/following attacks.

    Good anaerobic power and repeatability are also necessary as a result.

    Good FTP without good anaerobic ability = better at longer, steadier races.

    Another short answer is that FTP (and other metrics) don't race for you, and taken alone don't tell the whole story.

  24. #24
    mtbr member
    Reputation: WR304's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    3,735

    310 Watts for 20 minutes, 4.5 watts per kilogram, non-typical plan to get there.

    Quote Originally Posted by serious View Post
    Something just does not add up here. Below are my average power numbers straight out of the PowerAgent tool I use with the CycleOps 300 Pro. Everything was achieved indoors at 147 lbs and I am 51 years old.

    My FTP (CP60) puts me at 3.65 W/Kg and the CP20 puts me at 4 W/Kg. But I cannot come close to hanging with Experts in short races. Even in Sport class I struggle to hit top 5. I only do well in long, endurance races (as in 5-8 hours).

    So I have no idea how you guys manage to do well with 4 W/Kg at 20 minutes. Here in Ontario I am sure you need 4 W/Kg for 60 minutes (FTP) to do well in Expert category.
    If you think back to the short races where you were getting dropped consider where you were losing contact. Was it on short accelerations and repeated sprints?

    That would be my guess as your 30 second and 1 minute best power outputs aren't that high. That profile looks a lot like mine used to over the last few years when I'd consistently get blown away by everybody on short power climbs and sprinting as I just couldn't deliver enough of an explosive burst to keep up. After doing even more damage to my left leg crashing last year it's worse again in 2013...


  25. #25
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    594
    Quote Originally Posted by serious View Post
    Something just does not add up here. Below are my average power numbers straight out of the PowerAgent tool I use with the CycleOps 300 Pro. Everything was achieved indoors at 147 lbs and I am 51 years old.

    My FTP (CP60) puts me at 3.65 W/Kg and the CP20 puts me at 4 W/Kg. But I cannot come close to hanging with Experts in short races. Even in Sport class I struggle to hit top 5. I only do well in long, endurance races (as in 5-8 hours).

    So I have no idea how you guys manage to do well with 4 W/Kg at 20 minutes. Here in Ontario I am sure you need 4 W/Kg for 60 minutes (FTP) to do well in Expert category.
    I have a teammate who podium's in age group expert in midwest and he is a 5.0 W/Kg, so I see your point.

    His 1m power is 85% more than his 60m power, while yours is 70%. I know he does at one point in season 1m all out with 4m recovery repeats to get his 1m power up.

    As far as working with what you have and being better at short races, ,maybe at right time of season this will help. Mountain Bike Power | FasCat Coaching :: Cycling Coach for all Cyclists

    I know this chart above is 'road oriented' but maybe go thru this "power profiling" article and see where you are at. TrainingPeaks | Power Profiling

Page 1 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. UCI mandates watts per kilogram limit for road cycling
    By rockyuphill in forum XC Racing and Training
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 04-01-2013, 11:44 AM
  2. Interpreting Strava power(watts) - MTB
    By skiing9689 in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 09-18-2012, 04:15 PM
  3. What is your power output (watts)
    By Passenger13 in forum California - Norcal
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 05-22-2012, 06:15 AM
  4. Strava, Altitude, Watts
    By Metamorphic in forum GPS, HRM and Bike Computer
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 01-25-2012, 04:52 PM
  5. Help with Amps and Volts and Watts calculations
    By sergio_pt in forum Lights DIY - Do It Yourself
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 11-21-2011, 02:56 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •