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Help me understand the fairer sex

3K views 46 replies 25 participants last post by  Impy 
#1 ·
Sorry for creating another one of 'those' threads. I read the FAQ threads and I think I'm heading in the right direction but I'd like a little bit of feedback.

I've been dating a nice girl for a couple months now, and I've got her set up with a pretty good bike. Previously she was not into biking at all but she thought it would be a fun way to exercise and I thought it would be something we could do together. However, I'm running into some snags and I'd like some advice on where to go from here.

When we ride together she wants me in front, but to go slow. (Her speed.) Why? I said I would follow her but she didn't want that. But she doesn't really want me to go on ahead. (When I do, I stop and wait for her every so often.) This lead to another problem. Can someone tell me why I can't just follow her? I don't get it. I don't mind going slow at all and I tell her that.

She's crashed twice now. These are just on some fire roads. The last one was over the bars at pretty low speed. The one before that she fell over and landed on a rock. Both caused by too much application of front brake. At the speeds she is going rear brake is fine for now, so I said she should use just that one but that suggestion didn't help. Both times she's blamed the crash on me. :madman: Why did you put on brakes that are so strong? You were talking to me, distracting me. You slowed down too fast in front of me. Ugggh.

It's hard. I don't want to tell her what to do but I want to maximize her enjoyment of cycling so we can do it more together. I don't want her to become discouraged by crashing. I encourage her while riding but she doesn't want me talking to her. I got her a nice bike that fits her well. We ride on easy fire roads and take lots of breaks.

My plan going forward is to have her take a women's skills class and I found another beginner women for her to ride with. I tried to get her to ride with knee & elbow pads but I can barely get her to use gloves. What do you guys suggest? Am I heading in the right direction?
 
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#3 ·
presslab said:
When we ride together she wants me in front, but to go slow. (Her speed.) Why? I said I would follow her but she didn't want that. But she doesn't really want me to go on ahead. (When I do, I stop and wait for her every so often.) This lead to another problem. Can someone tell me why I can't just follow her? I don't get it. I don't mind going slow at all and I tell her that.

My plan going forward is to have her take a women's skills class and I found another beginner women for her to ride with. I tried to get her to ride with knee & elbow pads but I can barely get her to use gloves. What do you guys suggest? Am I heading in the right direction?
I HATE being followed by someone who's faster than I am and I've been riding for 11 years now. There's just something about a person right behind me that makes me nervous and more prone to wrecks. Even when I was a beginner, I prefered the other person just wait up every so often to make sure I wasn't dead.

If she'll attend a women's clinic and ride with the other beginner woman you know... that would be a good direction to head. You just have to stay home (or at least waaaaaaaay out of the picture).
 
#4 ·
do what my hubby did when I started- tell her not to use her front brake as that's a good way to prevent endos.

As for the who's in front thing, could be a safety issue, not feeling confident of "leading" the ride, fear of getting lost.

And, what they said. She will find her own way or she won't, not much you can to do hasten it along but if she WANTS to go to a clinic, that's a good place to start.
 
#5 ·
TVC15 said:
presslab said:
Am I heading in the right direction?
Unless you're turning around and running like hell, I doubt it.
:D :D Yeah the blaming crashing on me is annoying for sure! But I'm not giving up quite yet.

deanna said:
I HATE being followed by someone who's faster than I am and I've been riding for 11 years now. There's just something about a person right behind me that makes me nervous and more prone to wrecks. Even when I was a beginner, I prefered the other person just wait up every so often to make sure I wasn't dead.
Ok that makes sense. I don't really ride right on her rear tire or anything though but I could see that. When riding dirt bikes the sound of my buddies engine on my ass definitely motivates me to go faster! :)

I suggested the clinic and she is all for it, so that's good. :thumbsup: I guess I'm a little bummed because I think at least for now riding bikes together is something that's not going to work out.
 
#6 ·
presslab said:
When we ride together she wants me in front, but to go slow. (Her speed.) Why? I said I would follow her but she didn't want that. But she doesn't really want me to go on ahead. (When I do, I stop and wait for her every so often.) This lead to another problem. Can someone tell me why I can't just follow her? I don't get it. I don't mind going slow at all and I tell her that.
I might be able to help with this one. On terrain that she finds challenging, my wife wants me to ride ahead of her also. There are at least two reasons for this: 1) She doesn't want me worry about me running into her. 2) She's concerned that she'll be holding me up and therefore will ride faster than she finds comfortable. My wife is okay with me riding behind when the terrain isn't challenging. It may be that as your girlfriend's skills improve that she'll be more comfortable with you behind too.
 
#7 ·
If the person is a better rider than me, I want them in front of me, NOT behind me. I am able to copy their body position, their lines not to mention if we are riding something technical, they will be committed to riding it, then I will be too. I do this all the time with girls I ride with who are better riders than me. I know they will ride it, then I will too. I just follow and copy them. Then I feel much more confident in my riding skills.
Women's clinics are a must for her. So are pads. Once she rips open her knees and elbows enough, maybe she will reconsider. Good luck, remember, this needs to be fun and good exersise for her.
 
#8 ·
More on pads: Rock Garden makes pretty pink leg armor for women. I wear them EVERY ride. They are really cute and I feel MUCH more confident knowing I have padding on incase I fall. Now if I don't where my padding, that is when I get nervous! Maybe a nice surprise of cute, pink leg armor for her next ride?
 
#11 ·
Those pink knee pads look sweet..



I don't see any elbows in pink though other than the jacket. Thanks for the tip though I'll pick those up for her.

Man, I wish there was nice flowing singletrack here! At Annadel it's mostly rocks, she'd be walking pretty much the whole trail. And it's steep. Don't get me wrong, I love the rocks but it's too technical for her right now. Maybe I can think of somewhere to go.
 
#12 ·
You must have buddies with wives or girlfriends who ride. Can you set up a play date with them? :) She may do better without you around. Sorry, but sometimes the boyfriend/girlfriend dynamic gets in the way. Too many emotions, etc. She may be intimidated or fear "looking stupid" in front of you. Just a guess.... Maybe she needs to get some ride time in with other people, she may learn something from a female rider that you may have trouble communicating to her because of different riding styles, thought process, whatever.

As for the who rides lead thing, I personally prefer in really technical sections that my guy is in front of me. Sometimes so I can watch his body postion, lines, etc and sometimes so I don't feel nervous with him on my tail. But mostly because, I hate to see him go but I love watching him ride away. :blush: ha ha ha
 
#13 ·
jeffscott said:
believe it or not some women can find fire roads intimidating. I think its the gravel, sort of bouncing the tire around
I'd agree there. Fire roads actually take more advanced cornering skills at any real speed than singletrack does due to the total lack of a berm, adding loose gravel, etc. Fire roads are either total boredom when you're in control or sheer terror if you're not. There's really not much fun about them either way.

Get her out on some easy singletrack.

And while it may not be fun for you - I generally don't want to be in the lead ahead of faster people either. I would much rather try to follow their line and mimic what they're doing. I don't mind if they go on ahead, but if I'm out with someone trying to teach me, they have to stay at a pace where I can still see them or I might as well ride alone. (And there's nothing wrong with that sometimes, but if you're saying "ride it like this, watch my line, etc" - you can't do that without you in the lead and going slow)

Get her out riding with some clinics or beginner groups part of the time, and when she is with you - ride slow and let her follow.
 
#14 ·
Sounds like she is managing a lot.

Breath very deep very often. This is a very complicated and convoluted task.

While you are her best and most comprehensive source of information on what you guys are doing the exchange is troublesome and just adds to the stress.

First off, you have a relationship to complicate things. Being an authority on the trail is all tangled up with authority in your relationship. The fact is you are the riding authority but will have to deal with the fallout in the realtionship after the ride. Your authority stops at the trail. Choose your battles.

She is not you and does not have you history with athletics

How you parcel out information is critical. Attitude is everything.

Coaching is a skill which takes years to learn.

Breath very deep very often. This is a very complicated and convoluted task.

Simplify. People really can only learn one thing at a time. I sitll don't understand why newbs are started on dirt.:madman: Cycling in itself is a skill and mtb is much more elaborate on top of that.

Slow down. Most of what you can do in your sleep is simply beyond newbs.

Identify her needs. Ask her what she would like to learn from each ride. It makes her feel in control. Even if she is choosing the wrong thing do it her way. This is not a straight line affair.

Breath very deep very often. This is a very complicated and convoluted task.

She is not a guy. Do not blow by this fact. It is easy to say that you are aware of this and you even allude to it in the title of your post. However, I wonder if you realy know what this means.

There is a reason to send family members to driving school rather than teach them youself.

Good luck. :)
 
#15 ·
presslab said:
When we ride together she wants me in front, but to go slow. (Her speed.) Why? I said I would follow her but she didn't want that. But she doesn't really want me to go on ahead. (When I do, I stop and wait for her every so often.) This lead to another problem. Can someone tell me why I can't just follow her? I don't get it. I don't mind going slow at all and I tell her that.
when I read this, I thought for sure it was my boyfriend talking about me when I was learning. My thought is that it's really stressful when you're trying so hard to have someone behind you watching every move. The pressure to not dab a foot or go over an obstacle is magnified by someone watching. I also hated how when I would stop suddenly, which happens, that he would ride right up my backside nearly tipping me over. Additionally, I liked to watch him go over things. If he made it easily, I could do it. If he struggled, then I knew that maybe it was a bit too advanced for me. It was comforting to see him clear things.

She's crashed twice now. These are just on some fire roads. The last one was over the bars at pretty low speed. The one before that she fell over and landed on a rock. Both caused by too much application of front brake. At the speeds she is going rear brake is fine for now, so I said she should use just that one but that suggestion didn't help. Both times she's blamed the crash on me. :madman: Why did you put on brakes that are so strong? You were talking to me, distracting me. You slowed down too fast in front of me. Ugggh.
Haha, I did that too. Both of them! It was distracting when I was concentrating so hard and he would start talking. Sometimes I would be so focused that I couldn't talk, nor did I want to hear him talk. I also yelled at him for slowing down too fast. This was usually because he stops in stupid places to see if I make it over something, but when I saw him stop, it would throw me off. I never complained about my brakes though:)

My plan going forward is to have her take a women's skills class and I found another beginner women for her to ride with. I tried to get her to ride with knee & elbow pads but I can barely get her to use gloves. What do you guys suggest? Am I heading in the right direction?
My boyfriend tried to get me to wear pads forever and it really wasn't until he stopped pressuring that I got some. I'm just tired of getting banged up.

The good news? I don't blame him for anything anymore. My skills have improved and all my yelling was just out of frustration. It can very mentally and physically demanding to learn to mountain bike. I wanted to be good so badly that it drove me nuts. I was so angry when I didn't conquer something right away and would get pissy. My boyfriend is happy these days are over:thumbsup: So I think things might improve as her skills do. Just keep in mind how much of a mental struggle it can be.
 
#16 ·
presslab said:
Man, I wish there was nice flowing singletrack here! At Annadel it's mostly rocks, she'd be walking pretty much the whole trail. And it's steep. Don't get me wrong, I love the rocks but it's too technical for her right now. Maybe I can think of somewhere to go.
My boyfriend spent time with me before or after the ride/or a different day going out on the grass or curbs and practicing tight turns around trees, wheelies and keeping a line. Practicing these things without jagged rocks staring at you from every side is helpful.
 
#17 ·
My 2 cents

Find a trail *she* likes and ride it often. It's a lot less intimidating to go on a trail that you know. Let her tell you when she is bored and wants to try something new.

If she crashes, or does something "wrong", don't automatically tell her what she did. Let her vent. When she is feeling better and happy, ask her if she knows what she did wrong. It is more instructive for someone to figure it out for yourself than to have someone "telling" you whats is "wrong" with you.

Annadel has lots of stuff she could ride, and practice on, including lots of fireroad. I don't think it should be written off. But if you go with her, you aren't going to be doing your usual loops, at least not for a while.
 
#18 ·
My wife is a beginner mtn biker, though she's been a recreational roadie for years.

She HATES riding in front of me, for all the reasons mentioned above. She's fallen a few times, only partially blaming me. ("why did you convince me to attempt that log crossing? Now I'm covered in bruises and my coworkers will think you beat me!")

I've accepted that it is going to take a long time to get her to my level. And even if I can do that, she's unlikely to acquire my desire to ride technical trails or fast downhills. I'm thrilled that she's committed to trying a XC race next season - that's more than I ever expected.

Edit - one more thing - my wife goes into total NOOB zone on new trails. She gets outside her comfort zone VERY easily. She can bomb along the local trail at a reasonable clip, but put her on a similarly technical trail across town, and it's like she's never ridden a mtn bike before. So, I have to be patient when introducing new trails.
 
#20 ·
Berkeley Mike said:
Breath very deep very often. This is a very complicated and convoluted task.
I was thinking more along the lines of hard liquor in the camelbak, but that could work too. :p

First off, you have a relationship to complicate things. Being an authority on the trail is all tangled up with authority in your relationship. The fact is you are the riding authority but will have to deal with the fallout in the realtionship after the ride. Your authority stops at the trail. Choose your battles.
I could teach my buddy's gf to ride and he could teach mine. This way I don't have to deal with the fallout afterward!

Good luck. :)
Thanks. ;)

Impy said:
If she crashes, or does something "wrong", don't automatically tell her what she did. Let her vent. When she is feeling better and happy, ask her if she knows what she did wrong. It is more instructive for someone to figure it out for yourself than to have someone "telling" you whats is "wrong" with you.
Actually I didn't tell her what she did wrong in either case. I just comforted her after the crash. The first time it actually got dark as I was waiting for her to recover, but I didn't rush her. Good thing I had my little backup flashlight.

The second time she blamed me for stopping too fast. I said she needs to look further ahead so she could stop in time. She said, "No, you stopped too fast." I said, "Whatever, it doesn't really matter." Bad move. She started crying and said I was being mean. :confused: I obviously have a lot to learn! :skep:

But she pretty much figured out her issues on her own. A couple hours after the second crash she said "You know, the reason I crashed both times was because I used too much front brake. So I guess it's both our fault and not just yours." Uh, ok, I guess that's better than all my fault. :rolleyes: :D But yeah, I was actually pretty proud that she figured out what she had done wrong.

Annadel has lots of stuff she could ride, and practice on, including lots of fireroad. I don't think it should be written off. But if you go with her, you aren't going to be doing your usual loops, at least not for a while.
Well, we started off doing just the Spring Lake paved loop and she quickly said that was too boring. And there are lots of walkers there too; once even some moron on a rigid bike with no helmet blasted down a hill and almost creamed me, I was only doing 5 mph. I see why bikers get a bad name there; luckily I don't see those kind on the trails at Annadel.

We've been riding on Canyon up to the lake but it does have a lot of rocks. I think I'll try Richardson with her next time as she might be able to handle the steepness of that one now.

Also I think the suggestion of finding some place to practice is good. Like at a park or somewhere with some soft grass to land on.
 
#21 ·
what is her learning style? Something like the new Brian Lopes book might be a good one for her if she like to learn like that. For me, understanding the "why" really helps. You might explain that the front brake is 60-70% of your brake power, teach her about feathering, modulation, and one finger braking and this will give her much more control over her bike.
 
#22 ·
presslab said:
I obviously have a lot to learn! :skep:
None of the men who come to this board asking this question really want to hear this, but a lot of the time there's really nothing you can do to improve your GF's riding skills, her enjoyment of riding, etc. Even more unfortunately, there are a lot of things you can do to make it worse.

I have been there--my BF (now husband--there is hope!) taught me to ride. Or, rather, he learned how to be supportive and encouraging through the *years* of frustration and tears, and to let me find my own place in the world of mtb, and we eventually reached a point where I was good enough and comfortable enough to start asking for specific technique advice and for him to actually help teach me. It must have been very difficult for him, but we made it through, and now we have a blast riding together.

I think one of the things that often goes wrong is that men tend to jump into "solution mode" when they see their SO's having trouble with something. That is, they're quick to suggest a solution to the perceived problem, when what their women want is empathy and a safe place to vent. Buying armor after being told she doesn't want it, pushing a camp, re-iterating the front brake issue for the umpteenth time--all of these "solutions" may not be what she is looking for, and she may feel misunderstood (even if she can't put her finger on the problem) and react accordingly. Sometimes a hug and a compliment are much better tactics.

I am not saying that's what you are doing specifically, but it's something to think about.

Finally, as others have mentioned, the SO dynamic is a very difficult one for teaching/learning, so don't ever forget that fact as you get frustrated along the way! Others have been in your shoes, and occasionally some couples even make it out to the other side. :thumbsup:
 
#23 ·
I think you have been given some really good advice (and some funny stuff). My two cents is to ride in front of her on a single track at a comfortable pace for her. Always take the easiest line over an obstacle and remember that everything is an obstacle to her at this point. She will be encouraged to follow you and it will give her courage.

That said, I didn't really get much better at technical stuff until I rode with other women. Why? Mostly because I arrived at a technical section by myself - the guys were way up the trail so I didn't have anyone to copy. And because I didn't believe I could do something just because my boyfriend did but seeing another woman clean a section gave me more confidence. What can I say - I grew up with three sisters and an nonathletic father. Great times but no early skills development!

Good luck! Help her find a women's group to learn with. We have a few good ones in So Cal - there must be some up there.
 
#24 ·
First of all, good luck with this situation, presslab!

I remember giving my husband a bit of a hard time when we would hit the trails together. To this day, he still tries to give me advice about clearing some obstacles, which I just ignore. I just tell him to get his slow a$$ out of the way so that I can get some speed up to let momentum get me up and over most things.

Armor sounds like a good idea. Don't see why your GF doesn't want to wear it? I'm just to cheap to buy it. And I might get too daring wearing it!

As for her wanting you to always lead, maybe she is just afraid of farting in your face.:)
 
#25 ·
Mdm. Dabalot said:
That said, I didn't really get much better at technical stuff until I rode with other women. Why? Mostly because I arrived at a technical section by myself - the guys were way up the trail so I didn't have anyone to copy. And because I didn't believe I could do something just because my boyfriend did but seeing another woman clean a section gave me more confidence. What can I say - I grew up with three sisters and an nonathletic father. Great times but no early skills development!

Good luck! Help her find a women's group to learn with. We have a few good ones in So Cal - there must be some up there.
When I started I was almost always just riding with guys. So I learned plenty, but I can certainly relate to a couple things:

1. If I'm following my husband and he bobbles over something or stops - it instantly makes me not want to ride it. That "whoa, if it scared him, it's going to kill me". To the point where if he bobbles/wrecks in something I've ridden a dozen times before I have to be mentally yelling at myself to do it even though obviously I can.

2. You get into this mindset, especially as a newbie, that the experienced guys are just not even human. They sail over gaps, cruise through rock gardens, whatever. And "follow my line" may as well be "just flap your arms and fly over it". It's outside the realm of what you grasp as reality. But then I'd ride with people closer to my own ability level, and THEN I'd get into that - hey, if they can do it, I can do it. So get her into a group ride for beginners, or a womens group, or a clinic or something like that for at least some of her riding if you can. I think ideally, you want to alternate between riding with people better than you and around the same level as you so you can get the best of both worlds.

3. Being in front of better riders feels like you are asking to be judged. And unless I'm in the mood to ask for constructive criticism (yes, that does happen), that's probably the last thing I need from my spouse out of the blue. Remember that it's not like she doesn't KNOW what she's doing wrong much of the time - she just hasn't learned to do it correctly as a habit yet. I'm sure there are things you're working on in your riding where you internally yell at yourself to brake less or look farther around a corner or get the bike more level in the air... whatever. It's not like you need someone else telling you to do those things- you've already got a voice in your head going "get off the brakes!"

Not to mention - there are only so many things you can think of at once to work on. So maybe, MAYBE, if she's okay with it - ask if she wants you to offer advice and if she'd like just a concept to work on explained before the ride, or if she wants feedback during the ride or whatever. And if she doesn't want it - keep your mouth shut. She wants to ride with you and have fun with you, not get a lecture from you or have you boss her around. Trust me, we all understand that you're just trying to help - but often the best way to help is to just be there, dust her off, give her a hug and cheer her on.
 
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