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  1. #1
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    XT Shadow+ RD on chainlove

    $75. Finally something besides roadie jerseys.

  2. #2
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    Just went up again.

  3. #3
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    snagged one this afternoon.. they definitely went fast

  4. #4
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    Ugh cant believe I missed this, thats exactly what I want for my 10spd conversion

    Put an alert on cleansnipe though, hope it comes back soon!
    "That's a niiiiiiiice biiike boy! That a Huffy!?"

  5. #5
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    Big difference between shadow and shadow plus?

  6. #6
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    Yup, the clutch system. Supposedly reduces chain drops, and greatly reduces chain noise... from what I hear it works great!
    "That's a niiiiiiiice biiike boy! That a Huffy!?"

  7. #7
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    Let's bump this if it comes back, yeah? Help each other out!

  8. #8
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    Would it work with 9 speed if you crank in the limit screws?

  9. #9
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    Just came up again.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldManBike View Post
    Just came up again.
    thanks! just snagged one just in time. a couple minutes left.

  11. #11
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    I'm running 2x10. My understanding is that long cage ders are mostly for 3x setups. I know it'll work fine on mine but what are the drawbacks?
    '14 Lenz Lunchbox
    '08 Gary Fisher Ferrous 29

  12. #12
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    Drawbacks: Weight

    If you're running 26/39 or 28/42 or some wider range 2x, with a 11-36 cassette, *and* a FS bike (due to "chain growth"), I'd still recommend long cage (SGS) over med cage (GS). I think when people made that generalized recommendation for med cage in the past, it was before 10 speed, when it was 24/32(+bash) for a 2x setup, with a cassette with a range narrower than 11-36 (11-32, 12-34, etc).

    The primary difference is just how much more chain slack a longer cage can take up. You need a certain length chain to allow you to use your biggest ring and your biggest cog (in terms of teeth), and you need that longer cage to take up all the slack if you try to use your smaller chainring and smaller cogs. They measure the capacity of the cage, which essentially is the difference in the teeth between the two extreme ends of your gearing. Ex. 26/40 and 11-36 setup on a hardtail/rigid ---> (40 - 26) + (36 - 11) = 14 + 25 = 39... so this setup needs a RD with a capacity of at least 39T, to effectively use all your gears. It'd need a higher capacity on a FS bike or if you're not good about trimming your chain down to its minimum length. As you can see from the following specs, the GS model (35T capacity) will not be ideal for this setup, as you will likely experience the negative effects from a lack of chain tension when in the small chainring and smaller cogs.

    RD-M786 Medium Cage (GS):

    Maximum Sprocket: 36T
    Minimum Sprocket: 11T
    Front Difference: 18T
    Total Capacity: 35T

    RD-M786 Long Cage (SGS):

    Maximum Sprocket: 36T
    Minimum Sprocket: 11T
    Front Difference: 18T
    Total Capacity: 43T

    Other examples:
    24/32/42 & 11-36 --> (42 - 24) + (36 - 11) = 18 + 25 = 43
    24/36 & 11-36 --> (36 - 24) + (36 - 11) = 12 + 25 = 37

    Basically, modern 2x10 setups need a long cage to be ideal. The generalization about med cage should be clarified to be for 2x9 and 1x setups, so people don't think they need med for 2x10. Else people will just have to sacrifice a portion of their gears or chain length... isn't one of 2x10s advantages being able to "cross chain" without ill effects (compared to cross chaining on a triple)?

    While the spring tension may be different between long and med, I believe Shimano and SRAM tune it so the resulting tension on the chain is similar, to what they think is the ideal amount of tension, as too much chain tension increases drivetrain noise when pedaling, accelerates drivetrain wear, and makes shifts feel heavier; too little tension and you suffer from chain retention issues as well as chain suck and chain slap.

    I suspect higher end RDs may have lighter springs, since they expect you to run them with lightweight chains. Ex. SRAM XX with PC-1091R or KMC X10SL, as opposed to a heavier lower end chain.
    Last edited by Varaxis; 10-28-2012 at 04:02 AM.

  13. #13
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    What do you think about a med cage with 22x32 (or maybe 24x32) with 11-36 cassette on FS? Specifically a rip9. The 22x32 with 11-36 meets the 35 tooth capacity. I've read elsewhere that Shimano rates the derailleurs capacity conservatively anyway.
    "That's a niiiiiiiice biiike boy! That a Huffy!?"

  14. #14
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    When in doubt, go with long cage.

    Myths:
    - Improved shifting.

    How? I will agree that RD movement will be more responsive, since it weighs maybe 5-10g less, but the shifting is all done by the parallelogram and upper pulley moving the chain. The cage simply takes up chain slack and puts tension on it. The cage doesn't do anything to move the chain across the cassette.

    - Better chain tension.

    How? People think that the longer arm of a long cage needs more spring tension to put out the same tension on the chain. That's a fact. Speaking to Shimano reps, they say that they aim for a specific amount of tension for less wear and lighter, more responsive shifts and pick springs for their RDs to be tuned to that ideal value. Too much tension is bad and too much tension is bad. It's a fine balance. So how's it better?

    - Less chain slap and/or decreased drivetrain noise.

    How? This myth is based off of "better chain tension". Getting the ideal chain tension minimizes this. Too much tension increases drivetrain noise when pedaling (and makes shifts rough and clunkier). Too little chain tension allows for chain slap and reduced chain retention/security (less drivetrain noise when pedaling)

    - Better obstruction clearance and/or improved spoke clearance.

    How? Spoke clearance... Regarding obstruction clearance, the biggest difference would be when the cage is pointing straight down. Even in the limited gear combos that put the RD in that position (big ring + middle of cassette and maybe middle ring + 36T cog) do that, it's still tucked away pretty well in the instances you would be pushing those gears. If you aren't bashing your chainring or pedals, you likely aren't bashing your RD's cage, especially with your rear tire right there.

    Why are you even considering med cage in this thread, when Chainlove's only offering long? $75 for long cage or $100+ for med? That should be a no brainer.

    Oh, and Shimano's med cage used to be rated for 33T capacity. I would check the date of that source that said Shimano's rating is conservative, if I were you.

  15. #15
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    Well I found it on the deal trackers that list the chainlove items, it WAS at one point offered in both sizes. I was hoping it would pop back up.
    "That's a niiiiiiiice biiike boy! That a Huffy!?"

  16. #16
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    Oh. I guess only the last time it popped one was long cage only.

    Well, I just got a Bionicon C-Guide, since I already have a XT level 10 speed RD. If anyone's considering it just for the Plus clutch, I'd say go the C-Guide route instead.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varaxis View Post
    Drawbacks: Weight

    If you're running 26/39 or 28/42 or some wider range 2x, with a 11-36 cassette, *and* a FS bike (due to "chain growth"), I'd still recommend long cage (SGS) over med cage (GS)...
    great stuff!!

  18. #18
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    It's back up for 18 more minutes.

  19. #19
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    AWESOME! thanks! ordered.

  20. #20
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    Anyone know if you can swap the cages on XT ders? I have a med cage and want the plus but CL is only offering long.
    '14 Lenz Lunchbox
    '08 Gary Fisher Ferrous 29

  21. #21
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    Thanks snagged one, great deal.

  22. #22
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    Mine arrived today from the first time it was up. Took about a week for those that have ordered it recently. And no you cant really swap cages. Shimano use different springs for the cage tension depending on arm length.

  23. #23
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    20 long cages up @ 4:30 PT 15mins left



    .

  24. #24
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    up now.

  25. #25
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    up right now

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