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  1. #1
    HPM
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    Competitive Cyclist buyer beware

    A heads up for anyone buying from Competitive Cyclist: what you buy might not be what you actually get, and they're not likely to correct the problem.

    I bought a Santa Cruz Highball Carbon (complete) from Competitive Cyclist which arrived with a different wheelset than was advertised. The rims were supposed to be WTB Frequency Team i19 RCS, but arrived with Mavic TN719 rims. Might not be a huge difference in these rims to some, but besides not being what I expected, the WTB rims are lighter than the Mavics, and are tubeless ready, which the Mavics are not.

    The first person I talked to at CC was helpful, recognized the mistake and assured me that they wanted to make the situation right. I told him I preferred to have the wheelset that was supposed to come with the bike. They called me after a few days to let me know that the Mavic wheelset that shipped with the bike was the only wheelset available, that Santa Cruz had made that change at some point, and had no WTB wheelsets left. The salesman said all he could do at that point was offer me a $75 gift card or a kit to convert the mavics to tubeless.

    I've sent emails now suggesting that If they don't have the wheels I bought, they should replace the wheels with a set that's as light as the WTB's and are tubeless ready. If that's not an option they should replace the Mavic rims and credit my account the cost to rebuild with correct rims. If that's not an option they should credit the cost of the mavics and offer a discount on an upgraded wheelset. Am I out of line here?? It's probably a moot point because now they won't return my emails. So I'll prob just send the whole bike back.

    I was stoked to buy this bike - first time I've had a 100% new bike, but this situation has f'd it all up. This is why all my bike shop buddies say to steer clear of the mega on-line retailers.

  2. #2
    thread crapper
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    Seriously man?! It's called a running change and it's super common in the industry. CC isn't the manufacturer and they don't control what Santa Cruz sends them. They get the info from SC and post it. If SC changes it, they usually don't tell anyone and just expect the shops to figure it out. I'd take the $75 card, convert to tubeless, and run those wheels til the explode, then build up a nice custom set.

  3. #3
    Rogue Exterminator
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    You have an option to return the bike but demanding they replace the wheels with a set that will probably cost them more than they profited from the initial sale is a little ridiculous.

    Running changes happen and you should especially expect it at the end of the model year.
    Not happy, return the bike, go to your LBS and pay full price for a 2013 model.

  4. #4
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    CC informed you the best they could do is a $75 gift card and if that's not good enough for you, return your bike and get your refund.

    Take your money to your LBS buddies and buy a bike from them.

    Problem solved.

  5. #5
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    CC is one of the best around by way of customer service. I'm gonna echo everyone else's sentiments and say take it or leave it. Sucks, the way it works between manufacturers and dealers, but it's common, and not CC's fault.

  6. #6
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    if thats not an option, return your bike... NQA

  7. #7
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    Take the 75.00. Then shut up. Posting a buyer beware thread on a company that is giving you 75.00 for a mistake not really theirs seems petty.

  8. #8
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    I bought shoes from them and the next morning they were on sale. I flipped out (not really) and they gave me them for the sale price. They sorted it out no problem.

    Take the credit or return the bike.

  9. #9
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    If you bought the R XC package that's what they state comes with the bike is the mavic tn719. Santa Cruz changed wheel options during the middle of the year. I got the 719 on my tallboy and like a month later they changed to the other set. Anyways to complain about that online is pretty lame, and they tried to help you out and you still complain. Do them a favor and send the bike back and let someone else ride it. I checked all the packages offered in the sale section for the wheels and no where did I see the WTB wheels advertised. If you read that on Santa Cruz site then you should also see that they make changes all the time on what is offered on the bikes as far as components.

  10. #10
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    a) Keep the bike and take the $75
    b) Make them send a call tag and ship the bike back on their dime

  11. #11
    Big Gulps, Alright!
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    Even if you order from a shop, you're not guaranteed to get the parts advertised. Earlier this year we ordered two Blur LTs from SC, specced with DT Swiss rims. They arrived with WTB rims.

    Like Surly disclaims in the QBP catalog: "Specs change. Cope." Most bike makers post something similar on their sites.
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  12. #12
    Poacher
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    I would get the XTR set selling for $399. Tell them you want the $349 price from last week, and pay a little if you need to. 15mm front, 135 rear if it works. I have had 2 sets of Shimano XT UST(sold both), I have the XTR Trail UST, and I have 2 sets of WTB tubeless( 1 Frequency i23 set, and a 29er TCS set). I like the UST rims better. Sure, there are advantages to the WTB sets, but the UST rims are best for tubeless in my opinion.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by hoolie View Post
    I would get the XTR set selling for $399. Tell them you want the $349 price from last week, and pay a little if you need to. 15mm front, 135 rear if it works. I have had 2 sets of Shimano XT UST(sold both), I have the XTR Trail UST, and I have 2 sets of WTB tubeless( 1 Frequency i23 set, and a 29er TCS set). I like the UST rims better. Sure, there are advantages to the WTB sets, but the UST rims are best for tubeless in my opinion.
    Highball is a 29er, those wheels are a little small.

  14. #14
    Poacher
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    Sorry, I did not know HIGHBALL was 29er! Nevermind! Maybe get wheel credit and buy WTB Laser TCS set that is for sale everywhere (got mine on Chainlove). I have TCS and i23, I think the i23 is cooler rim, but I like them both.

  15. #15
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    As stated multiple times, running changes happen, sometimes for better or for worse. I had my Tallboy Carbon with a 142mm rear for over a month before Santa Cruz had updated THEIR OWN website with the info and photos.

    Taken directly from Santa Cruz's website "* Price and specifications subject to change without notice. "

    **** happens, take the $75 and be happy they offered you anything. I'm not surprised that Competitive Cyclist did that, they have an excellent reputation for good reason. I'm willing to bet 9 out of 10 local shops would have told you to quit your *****ing and go ride.

  16. #16
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    Seems like something outside of CC's control. If you aren't happy, ship it back for a full refund. Otherwise, if you want the bike but can't live with the rims, then take the credit, buy your own rims and resell the ones it came with. Ripping them here for something outside their control is weak.

  17. #17
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    Lame! CC is one of the best places to shop. If you dont like the bike return it they will give you your money back. Dont come and say "buyer beware" like they just gipped you. They tried to make it right and you refused. Sounds to me we should post a seller beware of you sign!

  18. #18
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    I understand your frustration, but CC is top notch. I think they are caught in a tough spot and are doing everything to please you.



  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by HPM View Post
    Am I out of line here?? .
    Yes.

    Btw this thread sucks. Big time. CC and all their other sites are the best in the industry when it comes to customer service, return policy and price adjustments.
    konahonzo

  20. #20
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    I like cc and have always had good experiences with them, but i think op has somewhat of a point here:

    Cc's bikes clearly spec out each part (with the option to change any part as well), why couldn't they update the spec when they started getting different specs from mfcr? Or if this was an anomaly or one of the first bikes with the new spec, couldn't they just call or email the buyer? What if it was a bigger part change like a cheaper fork or crappy crank?

    But, regardless, agree that cc can't do a lot here without wiping out its margin altogether . . . OP should probably return or take the $75

  21. #21
    Trail Ninja
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    You wanted to run WTB rims tubeless?

    Another WTB rim tire blowoff, is it me?

    Why stick with alloy rims when you can get carbon: (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims?

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by ddprocter View Post
    I like cc and have always had good experiences with them, but i think op has somewhat of a point here:

    Cc's bikes clearly spec out each part (with the option to change any part as well), why couldn't they update the spec when they started getting different specs from mfcr? Or if this was an anomaly or one of the first bikes with the new spec, couldn't they just call or email the buyer? What if it was a bigger part change like a cheaper fork or crappy crank?

    But, regardless, agree that cc can't do a lot here without wiping out its margin altogether . . . OP should probably return or take the $75
    They do allow changing each part on custom builds...However the bike he bought is a Santa Cruz kit bike (unless I missed any evidence it wasn't) and the site only has provisions to ADD pedals, bottle cages and trip computers on kit bikes.

  23. #23
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    I see both sides of this. SC changing the spec randomly, it getting advertised one way and then telling the customer to suck it up is pretty jacked. Especially if the customer was expecting/wanting the advertised item.

    I do see that offering a $75 gift card to help correct the discrepancy is a pretty solid gesture. I just think the unadvertised change is not called for.

    I ran into the same situation when we bought my GF's Tallboy from the LBS. Was expecting the WTB set. I didn't really know which was better so I didnt make a fuss.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by warimono View Post
    I see both sides of this. SC changing the spec randomly, it getting advertised one way and then telling the customer to suck it up is pretty jacked. Especially if the customer was expecting/wanting the advertised item.
    Again, I don't see the merit in blaming Competitive Cyclist when Santa Cruz clearly states on their site that specifications can change without notice. It's how the industry works, this is not the first or last time it will happen. They didn't say "Suck it up", they offered the $75 as compensation, and there is always the "No Questions Asked" return policy.

    A thread in the Santa Cruz forum stating "Wheelset spec changed on kit bikes, WTF" would have been more appropriate instead of something leading people to believe that Competitive Cyclist is somehow ripping customers off.

  25. #25
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    CC is fantastic.Bought a pair of bibs...wore them for a couple rides,hated them, returned them for a refund and bought ones from them that I like better.Worn bibs and a refund..it doesn't get any better then that!

  26. #26
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    yeah, cc rocks!! got my trebec helmet there, and requested if it could be shipped to me within 48 hours, great service .

  27. #27
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    CC is tops in the industry when it comes to customer service. But i guess theres always someone that can't be pleased.

    A mod should blackhole this thread, since its clear CC did nothing wrong.

  28. #28
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    I guess this wasn't the response the OP expected.

    Now that the OP has been educated on this issue, the proper thing to do would be to delete this silly thread.

  29. #29
    Trail Ninja
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    Blame WTB or SC. WTB not keeping up production to meet SC's needs or their product not living up to expectations and SC switching to something they think works better for them and/or their customers.

    Yeti's spec has running changes too, such as with their tire change from Schwalbe to Maxxis and Fox forks/shocks going to newer ones (including CTD). They don't do huge runs based on a year of production. They do seem to do batches at a time, a more agile approach, to react to demand and maybe apply changes, or fixes that appeared in early models, to newer batches as necessary.

  30. #30
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    Is there a reason why CC couldn't have notified the buyer of the wheel change before they shipped it out, instead of waiting to see if he discovered it on his own? It's a different set of wheels, not different color chainring bolts.

  31. #31
    AZ
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    This thread contains no flaming, veiled threats, questions of family lineage or sexual orientation. What a bunch of slackers.

  32. #32
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    Lol @ az mtns...

    Op--take the $75 and go ride your bike.. One ride and you'll forget about wheelgate .. Who knows maybe this is the fate gods putting you on the set of wheels that save your life... Oh and another thumbs up for cc.. They are the best..

  33. #33
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    Somewhat related. I asked them about the 142 rear axle Blur frames vs the 135, and CC told me they don't know until the box is opened. I presume they receive bike & box from supplier and put it on the shelf for customers.

    Quote Originally Posted by OldManBike View Post
    Is there a reason why CC couldn't have notified the buyer of the wheel change before they shipped it out, instead of waiting to see if he discovered it on his own? It's a different set of wheels, not different color chainring bolts.

  34. #34
    Daniel the Dog
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    I like Mavic rims better!

  35. #35
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    CC (AKA Backcountry) is as good as they get - I doubt anyone could please the OP.

  36. #36
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    some of you must work for CC. they advertised something other than what he received. the website should have been updated with the correct specs. CC should offer to pay return shipping. this is what 99% of online retailers do if they send the wrong item. to be fair, this sort of thing happens with 99% of online retailers, lol.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabe3 View Post
    some of you must work for CC.
    Were all getting gift cards for showing support
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  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by ozzybmx View Post
    Were all getting gift cards for showing support
    knew it!!

  39. #39
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    I had a somewhat similar situation to the OP. I purchased a complete Blur LTc last fall from Hucknroll (so CC). And, gosh darnit, it was the wrong color. I ordered a black/silver frame, and what I got was a black frame. Oh, wait a minute, I like the black frame better. Nevermind.

    I think the OP has a point. If CC listed the WTB rims as part of the package, I would have expected them also. I think a $75 gift card is a bit weak. Seems CC should have offered a discount on some other 29er set in stock that is acceptable to the OP, and pay for shipping the (likely superior) TN719 wheels back to CC.

    But, OP, I think you may be overreacting. CC (and the rest of their family) are great to work with, so that is why you do not get much sympathy here. And I bet you got a great deal on the bike. Those rims are likely stronger than the WTB rims (but this is from a big Mavic fan). You might check to see if the Stans kit works well on the TN719 and, if so, use that $75 for a kit. You have a XC bike after all, so using tube tires as tubeless will probably work out fine. And I think you would have to use that *&@!%$ tape on the WTB rims anyways.

  40. #40
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    I don't see the OP posting in this tread again after a beating like this. Much deserved.

  41. #41
    bog
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    I completely understand why the OP is upset about this. He ordered one thing and got something else (not a totally different someting else but different enough especially if you don't like TN719 rims). I don't agree with the title of the post at all. This was an honest mistake and certainly isn't some sort of scam that calls for a buyer beware post.
    CC is a great company and will take care of their customers. I do think the offer of $75 was a bit weak considering it would only cost CC about 1/2 of that. That being said, only they know the details of the sale and their profit margins so it may be all they can do.

    Personally I'd be happy with the Mavic rims.The design and quality is far better than any WTB rim.
    Last edited by bog; 12-02-2012 at 05:53 PM.
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  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by bog View Post
    I completely understand why the OP is upset about this. He ordered one thing and got something else (not a totally different someting else but different enough especially if you don't like TN719 rims). I don't agree with the title of the post at all. This wa an honest mistake and certainly isn't some sort of scam that calls for a buyer beware post.
    Agree.

  43. #43
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    Ask any retailer that sells Santa Cruz and Jenson, or hell, anything online, and they will say it's difficult to keep up with manually updating product pages. LBS that advertise bike sales online can't really afford to go back, edit, and update if it's sold or still available or has a new price.

    What they seem to forgot is a disclaimer saying that product spec is subject to change at the manufacturer's discretion. They honestly can't tell what components a complete bike with kit comes with until they open the box, and one box might have the older ones and another might have the newer ones.

    What Jenson has done with Yeti and their running tire change, was offer any tire you want in exchange for the stock ones. Met someone named George with one of the first SB95s and he got UST versions of Ardents both up front and back, set up tubeless. On the other hand, my SB95 I got from hucknroll... I was happy with it, despite not coming as spec'd. What I did was just post a review on their site saying what parts I received, and was actually happy I got Maxxis instead of Schwalbe and the RLC and RP23 over the CTD stuff.

    OP is just upset about the rims. IMO, I like Mavic rims better too. The new WTB rims carry a lot of hype and *seem* to come in an OEM and retail version, with the OEM version being made with a different material. I saw a lot of people selling off stock WTB rimmed wheels. CC is being nice. On top of free shipping and no [up-front sales] tax, and their return policy (have never seen a LBS take back a new bike that left their store; some even refusing if it were still brand new) and very good discounts off MSRP, I can see why people think this OP is hard to please, though it could just be a highly dramatized misunderstanding and he could be into jumping into conclusions or into conspiracy theories.

  44. #44
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    My tallboy LTC I purchased from HnR (competitive cyclist) came with a DT swiss 350 rear hub instead of the advertised Shimano XT. I was pleasantly surprised by this change. These things happen and think CC handled this properly and generously. I think you'll be hard pressed to find a better deal for the bike as a whole and the return policy.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldManBike View Post
    Is there a reason why CC couldn't have notified the buyer of the wheel change before they shipped it out, instead of waiting to see if he discovered it on his own? It's a different set of wheels, not different color chainring bolts.
    i dont think they open the box to check the bike. they get the bike in a box from the mfg and sell it to you
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  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by trueblue01gt View Post
    i dont think they open the box to check the bike. they get the bike in a box from the mfg and sell it to you
    They open. The complete bike I bought from them included an extensive checklist that included skillful truing of the wheels among other adjustments. The manufacture changed the specs and CC got what they sent.

  47. #47
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    They definitely open it, most likely after you put in the order. They build it up, and then break it down to suit one of their own bigger boxes for shipping. Mine was very well packed. I know that most brands send their bikes almost fully assembled, but Yeti sends their's as a frame and full of individual bike parts. Not sure about Santa Cruz, as I haven't toured a warehouse or shop that sells 'em. Visited a shop's basement, that sells Kona. They let me tour it before I moved away, when I asked for a bike box--looked like a 1 man sweat shop, with one guy building numerous bikes up non-stop.

    I've done a JensonUSA warehouse tour and they have pallets upon pallets of bikes and numerous bike build stations. I'd assume that they operate similarly to CC. Speedgoat has a video warehouse tour too.
    Last edited by Varaxis; 12-03-2012 at 10:27 AM.

  48. #48
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    Sorry, but have to agree, the OP saw "X" specs and when he got his bike it didn't include the wheels the site had listed. Now regardless of if this is something that happens regularly in the bike business and the manufacturers have it stated on their sites that it is so, CC does not have such a statement and is the OPs shop, so to speak and as such would have pulled the bike to check that everything was there and OK and do minor adjustments etc. When they (CC) saw that the wheels were different they should have at least notified the OP and given him the option of not wanting the bike or maybe as suggested doing a swap out and paying the difference etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by OldManBike View Post
    Is there a reason why CC couldn't have notified the buyer of the wheel change before they shipped it out, instead of waiting to see if he discovered it on his own? It's a different set of wheels, not different color chainring bolts.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabe3 View Post
    some of you must work for CC. they advertised something other than what he received. the website should have been updated with the correct specs. CC should offer to pay return shipping. this is what 99% of online retailers do if they send the wrong item. to be fair, this sort of thing happens with 99% of online retailers, lol.
    Quote Originally Posted by bog View Post
    I completely understand why the OP is upset about this. He ordered one thing and got something else (not a totally different someting else but different enough especially if you don't like TN719 rims). I don't agree with the title of the post at all. This was an honest mistake and certainly isn't some sort of scam that calls for a buyer beware post.
    CC is a great company and will take care of their customers. I do think the offer of $75 was a bit weak considering it would only cost CC about 1/2 of that. That being said, only they know the details of the sale and their profit margins so it may be all they can do.

    Personally I'd be happy with the Mavic rims.The design and quality is far better than any WTB rim.
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  49. #49
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    Threads like these are what we get for living in the United States of Entitlement.

  50. #50
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    I get how he could be frustrated. I am very particular about my builds, but that is why I do them custom. That said, I think he is overreacting to the event and CC provides incredible service in my experience. I have purchased two completes from them.

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