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  1. #1
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    WTB Moto 2.3 AM TCS verdict?

    I've been systematically destroying all the tubeless rear tires in the 2.2-2.4 all-mountain/ light FR class.

    My results are as follows:

    Conti: I stretch their casings on drops
    Kenda: sideknobs rip off easily
    Maxxis: Bead not tight enough and too expensive
    Schwalbe: Short wear life, expensive
    Specialized: Weak sidewalls, poor to mediocre braking performance (I think the rubber dries or hardens after the first 30 hours of use)

    I've just sort of settled on a spesh tire, because their relatively cheap and abundant, and I can deal with the weak braking. Yeah the sidewalls are tissue paper, but I destroy at least one rear tire a month, so what's it matter?

    I haven't tried WTB yet, and recently found out I can get them at a discount. They are sort of my last hope before I just give up and start running full on dual ply tires. I'm not interested in trying anything that isn't at least tubeless ready, cause I know I'll blow it off the rim in corners at a pressure where you actually get benefits from tubeless.

    The Bronson sounds like it'll be too weak, with many people complaining about the softness of the sideknobs. But I'm intrigued by the Moto 2.3 AM TCS. I also like the looks of the 2.3 Dissent (basically another Minion clone?) but it's a kilo.

    Anyone had a chance to shred on Moto yet? Know if it fairs alright for Westslope/Moab riding?

  2. #2
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    I only have about 60 miles on mine so far, but they have impressed me thus far.
    I am running it as rear paired with a Bronson on the front.
    The sidewalls seem pretty stiff set up tubeless. I haven't noticed a flex, I'm 210lbs running them
    at 30 psi.

  3. #3
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    Are they a true 2.3?

  4. #4
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    I'll measure it tonight or tomorrow and post up the true specs.
    They have about 70-80 miles on them now so should be stretching and settling.

  5. #5
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    In my experience, Geax tires have pretty good durability. I'm currently using Wtb Bronsons and they've held up reasonably well. Specialized tires last me about 2 rides before the sidewalls are toast.

  6. #6
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    I'm interested. I've been thinking of Bronson's myself. Put me on and lets see. I kinda feel like I'm in the same boat as you

  7. #7
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    Half man, I think I read on another post that you are in the Durango area. I am on the front range. I'm not sure about the Moto's, but the Bronsons I tried were completely roasted in about 3 weeks. They were good for about 2 weeks, then became sketchy after the knobs began to scallop (I believe feather is another term), then fold over easily. Our soil just seems to eat tires anyway, but these had a shorter life than an Schwalbe. I'd give WTB a buzz and ask if it is the same rubber. If it is, I doubt they will last too long, but if you can grab them at a discount might be worth it??

  8. #8
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    WTB » Products – Tires – All Mountain – Moto 2.3 » WTB

    ^^

    They market them as having firm sideknobs. Which is a huge selling point for me. I like the looks of the tread pattern with the exception of the spacing on the outermost knobs.

  9. #9
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    The casing is exactly 2.3 inches (2 5/16") at the widest point and the outside knobs are 2.25 inches.

    The outside knobs are much firmer than on the Bronson's.

  10. #10
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    Hey, thanks for taking the time, man. I think I'm going to give them a go, barring any negative reviews from people.

    What rims are you running, btw?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by mestapho View Post
    I only have about 60 miles on mine so far, but they have impressed me thus far.
    I am running it as rear paired with a Bronson on the front.
    The sidewalls seem pretty stiff set up tubeless. I haven't noticed a flex, I'm 210lbs running them
    at 30 psi.
    I was thinking of a Bronson in back with the Moto up front . . . I'm in SoCal, so similar terrain. What do you think?
    Alcohol may lead nowhere, but it sure is the scenic route!

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by half_man_half_scab View Post
    I've been systematically destroying all the tubeless rear tires in the 2.2-2.4 all-mountain/ light FR class.
    Sounds like you are using "tubeless ready" and not "tubeless" or UST tires. When you easily destroy TR tires, they are telling you to move up a class as what you are choosing are too lightweight for your use.

    The UST difference is in the sidewall & the rubber compound (often a harder, more durable rubber on UST tires)

    All of those manufacturers make more durable & bead proper tires. Choose the appropriate ones.

    P

  13. #13
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    WTB TCS sidewalls are not protected, except around the bead area. You will have the same results as the other tires.

    P

  14. #14
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    The TCS AM tires, 2.3 or wider, have the Inner Peace sidewall protection. It goes from the tire bead one inch up the sidewall. Basically from the bead to the top of the WTB on the sidewall.
    That is where most sidewall tears happen in my experience.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by half_man_half_scab View Post
    Hey, thanks for taking the time, man. I think I'm going to give them a go, barring any negative reviews from people.

    What rims are you running, btw?
    No problem.
    I'm running them on WTB Frequency i23's.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by OO7 View Post
    I was thinking of a Bronson in back with the Moto up front . . . I'm in SoCal, so similar terrain. What do you think?
    I was thinking of going Moto on both. I think the Motos have a higher rolling resistance than the Bronson's. I really like the Bronsons too, so I don't see why that combo wouldn't work great. The reason I put the Moto on the rear in place of my Bronson was the more open tread pattern shedding mud better.
    I may switch back to Bronson's front and rear when it gets dry and dusty again.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by mestapho View Post
    The TCS AM tires, 2.3 or wider, have the Inner Peace sidewall protection. It goes from the tire bead one inch up the sidewall. Basically from the bead to the top of the WTB on the sidewall.
    That is where most sidewall tears happen in my experience.
    Wrong. Bottom of the "WTB" at best. Inner Peace is more of a stabilizing tech for low pressure & pinch protection - and it works great for that.

    The outermost & exposed portion of the casing is unprotected & most prone to cuts, IME.


  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.P View Post
    Sounds like you are using "tubeless ready" and not "tubeless" or UST tires. When you easily destroy TR tires, they are telling you to move up a class as what you are choosing are too lightweight for your use.

    The UST difference is in the sidewall & the rubber compound (often a harder, more durable rubber on UST tires)

    All of those manufacturers make more durable & bead proper tires. Choose the appropriate ones.

    P
    The first case in which I had sidewall issues were with the conti, which was a genuine UST. Permanently stretched the casing on a drop on the third ride.

    The second was with the specialized tires. Those were indeed tubeless ready, a Purgatory and a Butcher. To my knowledge the only tires in the grid (the true UST) are the Eskar and the Purg. Both of those have pretty poor braking performance, and at the higher pricepoint for the thicker casing. If spesh made the Butcher in the Armadillo or thicker grid casing I would give it a go, but they do not.

    All other issues were not casing related.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.P View Post
    Wrong. Bottom of the "WTB" at best. Inner Peace is more of a stabilizing tech for low pressure & pinch protection - and it works great for that.

    The outermost & exposed portion of the casing is unprotected & most prone to cuts, IME.

    Here is what WTB says:

    Inner Peace is a thin, one-inch, wedged-shaped strip of reinforcing
    rubber added between the casing plies just above the tire
    bead. Found in the AM TCS (All Mountain) tire line, Inner Peace
    dramatically increases the sidewall strength, reduces punctures,
    and virtually eliminates pinch flats. Inner Peace supplies the
    confidence and peace-of-mind to push your limits
    I measured one inch up from the bead on my Moto and it was just about at the top of the WTB logo. I assume "dramatically increases the sidewall strength" would include improved resistance to sidewall tears.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by half_man_half_scab View Post
    All other issues were not casing related.
    You identified 3 issues:
    - casing durability
    - rubber durability
    - tubeless bead reliability

    All of the above = durability/reliability

    My point is that after suffering so many tire issues, perhaps it's time to err on the side durability/reliability.

    Durability/reliability costs in weight.

    Run a successful set-up for 6 months to a year then reassess.

    Check out these tires for aggressive tread & high durability:

    Michelin's WildRock'R Advanced 2.25
    The burly sidewall of theWildRock'R Advanced makes it a great choice for riders who struggle to find reliable tires
    Michelin WildRock

    Specialized Grid (whatever pattern suits you)
    tough 70a rubber + tough tubeless casing.

    P

  21. #21
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    I'm really really enjoying the Moto's :-)

    I had the Hans Dampf before and ditched those because they didn't shred mud.

    I've ridden the Moto's in Snow, Mud and dry dusty trails (weather in the UK has been mental!) and they’ve been great in all situations. On wet slippy roots, the rear can slip if you catch it between the side knobs, but once the root hits the side knob it grips again and they roll a lot lot faster than the Hans Dampf.

    I running them front and rear; 30-28 psi on the front and 28’ish on the rear with Michelin C4 aircomp latex tubes.

  22. #22
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    Just got one in the mail. The casing feels like what I'm looking for. Definitely beefier than conti UST, probably about Specialized Armadillo Elite thickness. I gotta say it looks very skinny, though. Skinnier than the Trail King 2.2, and all othe 2.3's (with the exception of Maxxis tires).

    I'll let you know how it goes.

  23. #23
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    Well, this tire didn't work out for me in the end. I've been riding pretty intensively in the Four Corners region the last three weeks after having mounted it. Within three rides the side knobs began tearing off. Cornering was pretty sketchy, and I attribute this to the spacing of the shoulder knobs. Braking was alright. Not remarkably fast rolling. They deflect off of larger rocks in slow speed technical situations. I finally killed them climbing on ride 10 at about 3 mph when a piece of tallus severed a side knob and cut the casing wide open.

  24. #24
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    Halfman, I ride on the Front Range and I recently picked up a WTB Prowler MX 2.3 UST. I believe the Moto replaced this tire. I am running the tire on the front and over 6-8 rides, the tire seems very durable.

    It is a very heavy tire; I weighed it with packaging at the post office and it came in at 986 grams. If the packaging weighed 2 oz. the tire would be about 930 grams. The tire does roll well, not as well as the Trail King 2.2 that it replaced, and it has not slowed me down.

    It is not a big tire. I have not measured the tire but it is only slightly bigger than the TK 2.2. I think that in your case, it might take a heavy tire like this one to be more durable. I was concerned about the extra weight but after a few rides it really has not made a difference. Then again, I am not racing nor would I suggest this tire if you were racing.

    Compared to the TK, the rubber seems really supple. I have been running the tire at 26 psi and it has performed very well on the typical Front Range rocky, loose over hard, sandy, and hard pack trails. I did have to use a compressor to seat the tire on the rim but the tire has not lost any air over the two weeks I have had it.

    The best thing about this tire? JensenUSA has the tire for $35.

    WTB Prowler MX 2.3 (55/60) UST Tire '09 > Components > Tires and Tubes > Tires | Jenson USA Online Bike Shop

  25. #25
    "El Whatever"
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    I only rode the old Moto-Raptors.

    It was a really good rear tyre that found traction everywhere, though a little slow.
    The front was scary.
    Check my Site

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