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  1. #1
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    WTB Frequency i23 AM wheelset: alternative to Flow rims

    I just completed a 26er AM wheelset with the new WTB Frequency i23 rims (UST/TLR profile), Wheelsmith DB 14 spokes, and CK ISO hubs for a customer in Toronto. Total wheelset rotating weight: 1,850g. I am completely impressed by the quality of these new rims: 469g, 120kgf max. spoke tension, very nice design details. As I finished the build process, the wheels had the feel of having developed high strength, and built up very true.

    Next i23 wheelset presently underway is a 29er set for a customer in Eugene.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails WTB Frequency i23 AM wheelset: alternative to Flow rims-wtb_frequency_i23_db14_ck_iso_front_side_mtbr.jpg  

    WTB Frequency i23 AM wheelset: alternative to Flow rims-wtb_frequency_i23_db14_ck_iso_rear_top_mtbr.jpg  

    Last edited by 4slomo; 12-08-2011 at 08:18 PM. Reason: Discrepancy in published weight for 26" rim. Revised weight is back calculated.
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  2. #2
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    I'd say they are definitely an alternative to the Flow. Given they have a true UST rim profile and they are eyeleted some would say they may even be an improvement (though my Charger Expert wheels with BST rims work just fine with UST spec beads).

    I'll be interested to see how the new Pancenti TL28's compare as well.

  3. #3
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    With the Frequency rims, WTB eliminated eyelets for directionally drilled and radiused spoke nipple holes. They are getting even better durability in this manner.
    Last edited by 4slomo; 11-12-2011 at 06:47 AM.
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  4. #4
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    Does the "23" refer to the internal width of these rims, or outer width? (WTB's website is lacking in critical information)
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  5. #5
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  6. #6
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    Yes, i23stands for internal width 23mm.

    Quote Originally Posted by bholwell View Post
    Does the "23" refer to the internal width of these rims, or outer width? (WTB's website is lacking in critical information)
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  7. #7
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    What about the i19? Anybody have built those rims for xc racing ?
    thanks

  8. #8
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    UST bead, what taspe or rim strip do they recomend for tubless use?

  9. #9
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    just stans yellow tape i beleive.

  10. #10
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    25 mm wide tape such as Stans is recommended for the i23.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flboy View Post
    UST bead, what taspe or rim strip do they recomend for tubless use?
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by italianbike74 View Post
    What about the i19? Anybody have built those rims for xc racing ?
    thanks
    just picked up a set of CK hubs laced to 29er wtb frequency i19's pretty darn light. however i didn't get to weigh in grams but under 4lbs for the set w/o cassette.

  12. #12
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    29er AM Single Speed WTB i23 Wheelset!

    I just completed a 29er AM Single Speed wheelset with the new WTB Frequency i23 rims (UST/TLR profile), Wheelsmith DB 14 spokes, DT Swiss 350 front hub and CK ISO SS rear hub for a customer in Eugene. Total wheelset rotating weight: 1,990g. I am completely impressed by the quality of these new rims: 503g, 120kgf max. spoke tension, very nice design details. As I finished the build process, the wheels had the feel of having developed high strength, and built up very true.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails WTB Frequency i23 AM wheelset: alternative to Flow rims-wtb_frequencyi23_db14_dts350_front_side.jpg  

    WTB Frequency i23 AM wheelset: alternative to Flow rims-wtb_frequencyi23_db14_ckisoss_rear_top.jpg  

    Last edited by 4slomo; 12-04-2011 at 12:53 PM. Reason: Corrected for rim weight discrepancy
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  13. #13
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    looks good

  14. #14
    offroader
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    Looks nice. How does the tubeless setup compare to Stans flow?

  15. #15
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    2,000 grams ain't light! WTB seems to have done a nice job with their recent rim upgrades, took them a while. But please, NEVER stop making the DD!

  16. #16
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    WTB TCS Details

    Here's a link to a WTB web page showing rim cross section UST details: TCS. The bead hook & lock design provides a more secure hold on the tire bead. The center well "on-ramp" has room for the tire beads when mounting a tire on the rim, and geometry to help the bead to move from the well to the bead lock. Just makes mounting a little easier, depending on the actual shape of the tire bead.

    Quote Originally Posted by CupOfJava View Post
    Looks nice. How does the tubeless setup compare to Stans flow?
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  17. #17
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    I designed this single speed AM wheelset for a customer with a riding weight of 225-230 pounds, it needs adequate strength to meet his requirements.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yogii View Post
    2,000 grams ain't light! WTB seems to have done a nice job with their recent rim upgrades, took them a while. But please, NEVER stop making the DD!
    Last edited by 4slomo; 11-18-2011 at 09:52 PM.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yogii View Post
    2,000 grams ain't light! WTB seems to have done a nice job with their recent rim upgrades, took them a while. But please, NEVER stop making the DD!
    It's pretty light for a 29er AM wheelset with CK hubs. An identical wheelset with Flows would have weighed approx. 100g more.
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  19. #19
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    Where did you purchase new rims WTB (FREQUENCY i23 26)?
    I could not find them on sale in any online store.
    What is the technology of "4D Drilling"? About her writing WTB in the specification to the rim.

  20. #20
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    Any WTB dealer can sell WTB rims, and I am one of probably many dealers. I may have been lucky enough to build the first ones commercially. The Dealer Locator portion of WTB's website has a message saying it is temporarily unavailable. The International Distributors webpage directory is working. The WTB online store web pages don't appear to have been updated yet with the new rims. The rims should be showing up on the online stores soon, as they have carried all of the WTB products in the past.

    The 4D drilling is angled drilling with each hole pointed directly towards the hub flange hole where the spoke is intended to go. This minimizes the bending stress on the spoke and nipple at the rim from otherwise less accurate alignment.

    Quote Originally Posted by zg2tn9 View Post
    Where did you purchase new rims WTB (FREQUENCY i23 26)?
    I could not find them on sale in any online store.
    What is the technology of "4D Drilling"? About her writing WTB in the specification to the rim.
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  21. #21
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    How do these compare to the Lazer TCS All Mountain Race rims?
    What about max spoke tension?

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  22. #22
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    Good question.

    In online stores you can buy both Frequency and last season WTB Laser TCS.
    The 19mminner width are both mentioned at 385g.

    Seems the new design dropped eyelets for the 4d drilling.

    Did you have the change to build with both? what is your opinion.

    Just bought a set of Laser TCS XC 32h, and are getting ready to be built with DT Revolutions 2.0-1.5-2.0 and WTB Laserdisc hubs (reusing the hubs from an old wheelset)

  23. #23
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    WTB said that they got better rim durability results using the 4D spoke hole drilling technology as compared with their previous eyeletted rims, think of this as a further refinement in their rim design. The rims have the same maximum spoke tension as the previous Laser TCS models: 120 kgf. I do like building with the Frequency rims better than the Laser TCS rims and have gotten even better results.

    Quote Originally Posted by savagemann View Post
    How do these compare to the Lazer TCS All Mountain Race rims?
    What about max spoke tension?

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  24. #24
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    I'm planning on building at wheelset with these rims in 29 inch with either Hope Pro 2 or XTR M988 hubs. Does anyone know the spoke length for these setups? All parts are yet to be ordered, so I can't measure anything myself. No info on ERD or anything on the WTB site.

  25. #25
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    I measured the ERD for the two 29er i23 rims I ordered at 599 mm each. It is always best to actually measure your rims before calculating spoke length, especially until the consistency of the ERD is established for new rim models. Hub measurements are more standardized, and manufacturer's measurements can usually be trusted.

    Quote Originally Posted by sti29 View Post
    I'm planning on building at wheelset with these rims in 29 inch with either Hope Pro 2 or XTR M988 hubs. Does anyone know the spoke length for these setups? All parts are yet to be ordered, so I can't measure anything myself. No info on ERD or anything on the WTB site.
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  26. #26
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    to 4slomo
    What is ERD (to calculate the length of the spokes) you used to WTB Frequency I-23 a diameter of 26 "? On the manufacturer's website could not find the data.

  27. #27
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    Ill post the 26er ERD tomorrow, when I am able to access my files.

    Quote Originally Posted by zg2tn9 View Post
    to 4slomo
    What is ERD (to calculate the length of the spokes) you used to WTB Frequency I-23 a diameter of 26 "? On the manufacturer's website could not find the data.
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  28. #28
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    I looked up somewhere it was 535 for the 26".
    I think i saw it in a catalog.
    But its better to measure it for real.

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  29. #29
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    Width...

    As above, I assume the inner rim width is 23mm.

    What about the outer width?

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miker J View Post
    As above, I assume the inner rim width is 23mm.

    What about the outer width?
    Height 19.5mm
    Internal width 23mm
    External width 28mm
    Weight 455g

    Information from the directory WTB 2012

  31. #31
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    Thanks....

    Quote Originally Posted by zg2tn9 View Post
    Height 19.5mm
    Internal width 23mm
    External width 28mm
    Weight 455g

    Information from the directory WTB 2012


    So the question will be, how are these rims going to compare to the Flows - being just as wide and about 70g lighter per rim.

    Time will hopefully tell.

    My biggest question will be the this rims ability to hook up with non-UST tires. For example, I really like Kenda non-UST tires and they mount up perfectly with Stans.

    Can anyone comment on the bead-tire interface differs between the WTB and Stan's?

  32. #32
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    Frequency i23 26er ERD

    I measured the ERD for the two 26er i23 rims I ordered at 537 mm each. It is always best to actually measure your rims before calculating spoke length, especially until the consistency of the ERD is established for new rim models. Hub measurements are more standardized, and manufacturer's measurements can usually be trusted.

    Read through the whole thread for more info on these rims.

    Quote Originally Posted by 4slomo View Post
    I'll post the 26er ERD tomorrow, when I am able to access my files.
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  33. #33
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    Can anyone comment on the bead-tire interface differs between the WTB and Stan's?
    I replaced a worn out non-UST 2.35 Kenda Nevegal on my rear wheel(Stan's Flow rim) with a WTB 2.3 TCS Weirwolf. I mounted it with a floor pump and it sealed up much quicker than the Kenda. I think the WTB Weirwolf stopped leaking air after one day. Seems to have comparable traction in dry, rocky conditions as the Kenda. I haven't rolled it yet, so the bead hookup seems to be fine. The sidewall does say something like, "Warning: read the owners manual at wtb.com before mounting", but I couldn't find any info about the Weirwolf at the WTB website. I'm currently running it at 35 lbs, and I weigh about 235 lbs with gear.

    The WTB does however look much narrower than the 2.35 Kenda Nevagal, and I think it is much heavier to boot.
    Last edited by happyriding; 08-28-2015 at 03:35 PM.

  34. #34
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    4slomo,

    Would you ever build wheels with straight gauge spokes for heavier riders? Why or why not?

  35. #35
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    Check out post #16, and the link to the WTB website page.

    Quote Originally Posted by Miker J View Post
    ... Can anyone comment on the bead-tire interface differs between the WTB and Stan's?
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  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miker J View Post
    So the question will be, how are these rims going to compare to the Flows - being just as wide and about 70g lighter per rim.
    Flows are listed at 470g, so make that 15g per rim...
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  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flboy View Post
    UST bead, what taspe or rim strip do they recomend for tubless use?
    Oh frekken finally starts making some UST beaded rims at 21 or 23 mm inner width.............Oh, and that aren't boat anchors (that's directed at you Mavic).

    Although, I really have to question the 385 gr weight listed. My experience with WTB and list weights is add 20% to get the real number. Anyone put just the rim on a scale? (26 inch)

    I really don't mind the tape as long as the rim profile and bead hook are UST type. I like my UST and TR tires, but not the std tires ran tubeless.

    If all this turns out to be a decent rim for $75, I will finally be having my 2nd Lefty wheel built up.
    Last edited by ziscwg; 11-28-2011 at 10:51 AM.
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  38. #38
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    Well, one thing about mavic rims is they're pretty bomb proof. Never the lightest however. Surprised they haven't jumped in on the tubeless ready band wagon yet like WTB and DT

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by CupOfJava View Post
    Well, one thing about mavic rims is they're pretty bomb proof. Never the lightest however. Surprised they haven't jumped in on the tubeless ready band wagon yet like WTB and DT
    IIRC, Mavic did the whole UST thing and has tried to license that tech so companies can put UST on the label. So, I'm not sure if Mavic would do a tubeless ready setup or not.

    It seems as if Mavic stopped doing anything after the put out the 819 and 823 rims. Those rims don't appear to have changed in the 4 yrs I have been riding mtb. They appear to have worked a lot in their wheelsets.

    I would have been ok with an 821 rim.

    Mavics weights always seem to be without the eyelet insert thing you have to use with their 8 series rims. So, add 50 to listed weight.
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  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by PissedOffCil View Post
    Flows are listed at 470g, so make that 15g per rim...
    It becomes more pronounced for the 29er wheelsize... 50gr

  41. #41
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    The wheels pictured in the first post by 4slomo, are my wheels built by 4slomo. I met him through a mutual other hobby of hi-fi audio. A friend of mine who is a biking nut had Steve build him a set of wheels and liked the experience so I followed suit. The whole affair was top notch. He is a pleasure to deal with. Ok..enough with the sales... (I am not affiliated, just happy customer)

    The wheels have yet to be mounted. This is my first set of "hi-end" wheels. Meant for my Giant Trance X2 (with mucho upgrades). I like to push my limits. I am no pro rider, hardly, but I did ride BMX as a kid and like to be aggressive and take drops from time to time, so I wanted an AM set of wheels.

  42. #42
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    P.S. I lost all the stickers on the rims...my bike is all black with minor red highlights....i wanted the more utilitarian look.

  43. #43
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    The website lists weight for the i23 TCS rim at 475g. Above guys keep saying 455g... so uh what is it?

    Obviously there will be variation on rim to rim but is it 20g?

    Are the rims priced better than Stans?

  44. #44
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    There is some confusion, in part because the 2012 Catalog lists the i23 rim weights as 455g/26" and 470g/29", and the website lists the i23 rim weights as 475g/26" and 530g/29". I back calculated a weight of 503g/29" as noted in Post #12.

    The i23 26er 475g rim weight listed on the WTB website may be a typo.

    I can back calculate the rim weight from the total wheelset weight. I weighed the 26er wheelset I built at 1,850g. The calculated weight is 1,862g. The difference in the two weights is 12g, which can be allocated equally to the two rims, so the average weight per rim is 475 - 12/2 = 469g.

    If I back calculate the rim weight for the front wheel separately, on my scale the front wheel weighed 840g and the calculated wheel weight is 846g, The difference for the front is 6g. 475 - 6/2 = 472g for the front rim.

    The rear wheel weighed 1,000g and the calculated weight is 1,016g. The difference for the rear is 16g. 475 - 16/2 = 467g for the rear rim.

    Averaging the two calculated weights: Half of (472 + 467) is an average weight of 469.5g for a 26er i23 rim.

    WTB Frequency i23 rim website retail prices: $75/26" and $80/29".
    Stans Flow rim website retail prices: $90/26" and $93/29".
    Lower prices for the the rims can be found at other online stores.


    Quote Originally Posted by shirk View Post
    The website lists weight for the i23 TCS rim at 475g. Above guys keep saying 455g... so uh what is it?

    Obviously there will be variation on rim to rim but is it 20g?

    Are the rims priced better than Stans?
    Last edited by 4slomo; 12-08-2011 at 08:31 PM.
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  45. #45
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    Thanks for the info 4slomo. I've been a big fan of the LaserDisc Trail rims. They've taken a beating on my bike here on the Shore.

    I was going to build up some Flow's but now I am pretty sure I'll go for the i23.

    Do they come fairly straight and build up easy? I've only built 8 wheels so I am still a beginner in the fine art of wheel building.

  46. #46
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    Thanks for the heads up! I'll be picking up a set after Christmas.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miker J View Post
    So the question will be, how are these rims going to compare to the Flows - being just as wide and about 70g lighter per rim.

    The Flows are 470g, so 15g more.

    Has anyone had any real problems with the Flows? I've just had some laced up and have never ridden tubeless before.

  48. #48
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    I have 4 sets of flow rims one for each of my bikes. Never had any issue with them. The key is to find tires that work best.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by CupOfJava View Post
    I have 4 sets of flow rims one for each of my bikes. Never had any issue with them. The key is to find tires that work best.
    Maybe I'm misinformed, but that's the reason I never went with the Flow set up, tires. I just want to grab my TR or UST tire, put in on and go. I don't want to have to worry about getting it to seal, burping etc.

    I'm hoping with these new i23 rims supposedly with a UST bead, that I can just put a little tape on, sealant and go.
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  50. #50
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    Tubelss ready should be and easy fit with flows. Not sure about UST (they still make those??)

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