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  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaWiseNuthatch View Post
    Our local wheelbuilder is a big cx ray fan, but seeing the picture above, I'm not sure anymore.
    Spoke cross section shape has nothing to do with spoke tension. Only cross section area matters, and it is enough in a CX-Ray for whatever maximum spoke tension allowed for Frequency rims.

    In other words, blame the rim or the build, but neither the spoke nor the nipple in the failure pictured.

    As for directional eyelet drilling quality, possible critical issues are:

    1. more material is removed than should be, or
    2. directionality is off.

    If they just seem rough in nipple contact areas, build with brass nipples for peace of mind.
    26" faithful.

  2. #202
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    OK, just got my pair of i23's at the post office. 485 and 482 grams with the badge, not as light as advertised.

    There is some solid gray residue left on the inside of the bead hook, anybody else seen that? Like a tire had been mounted tubeless and that's the leftover sealant, which is of course a crazy idea since the rim is brand new (or at least is said to be).

    They seem to have some flex when I squeeze them with my arms, is that ok?

    J Random, I see your point, but the problem is, our wheelbuilder doesn't want to to take the "110kgf" figures into account Like he's been building his wheels with some tension tables, and those 110kgf are totally unnecessary. Maybe I'm using wrong terms when giving him the tension data?

    As far as the uneven drilling goes, well, this pair has it as well, that is, some eyelet facets are about 3-4mm wide, some 1-2mm, that's probably what the builder has noticed as well. Is that ok?

  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaWiseNuthatch View Post
    OK, just got my pair of i23's at the post office. 485 and 482 grams with the badge, not as light as advertised.
    This is normal I think. I've only seen weights around 480 g too.


    Quote Originally Posted by DaWiseNuthatch View Post
    There is some solid gray residue left on the inside of the bead hook, anybody else seen that? Like a tire had been mounted tubeless and that's the leftover sealant, which is of course a crazy idea since the rim is brand new (or at least is said to be).
    All Frequency rims that I built with had some very noticeable uneven anodizing (discoloration) in the tire channel, but never a residue.


    Quote Originally Posted by DaWiseNuthatch View Post
    They seem to have some flex when I squeeze them with my arms, is that ok?
    Well, why not. This can be felt even in high profile rims such as Giant P-XC when squeezing them radially.

    Quote Originally Posted by DaWiseNuthatch View Post
    J Random, I see your point, but the problem is, our wheelbuilder doesn't want to to take the "110kgf" figures into account Like he's been building his wheels with some tension tables, and those 110kgf are totally unnecessary. Maybe I'm using wrong terms when giving him the tension data?
    He's probably referring to tensiometer conversion tables. Both 110 and 120 kgf readings should be present in such tables for whatever tensiometer he may be using.

    Is he suggesting that 110 kgf is too low?

    Quote Originally Posted by DaWiseNuthatch View Post
    As far as the uneven drilling goes, well, this pair has it as well, that is, some eyelet facets are about 3-4mm wide, some 1-2mm, that's probably what the builder has noticed as well. Is that ok?
    Now that doesn't sound good!

    Extrusion profile is constant throughout the rim, thus it sounds exactly like drilling has been made to uneven depth, as if the rim was ever so slightly wavy and the drill bit always went to a fixed depth relative to the machine, not to the rim material.
    26" faithful.

  4. #204
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    I had some grey residue in mine too.

  5. #205
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    I just setup my wheels tonight (xt hubs and i23 rims). The rims had no residue on the inner surface, but they were a little dirty. I set the wheels up tubeless with some WTB Stout 2.3 tires using a Stan's kit. Everything went smoothly and I was able to set the bead with my floor pump. No compressor needed. At this point, I'm very happy with them. I'm sure that opinion won't change very much once I finally get the bike together.

  6. #206
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    Regular folding bead tires (Schwalbe) with I23s? Yay or nay? Just wondering how these will setup tubeless with non TL-Ready tires.

  7. #207
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    I just got the new Moto Fantom 29 Pro and it came with WTB Speeddisc I19 rims. If I were to purchase the WTB Frequency I23 rims, could I just swap out rims and be done? I can't find any full I23 wheelsets anywhere.

  8. #208
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    Hi Larsin,

    The rims have different ERD dimensions, which means different spoke lengths are required. Think custom wheel build. Easy to do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Larsin View Post
    I just got the new Moto Fantom 29 Pro and it came with WTB Speeddisc I19 rims. If I were to purchase the WTB Frequency I23 rims, could I just swap out rims and be done? I can't find any full I23 wheelsets anywhere.
    Hey everybody, ride my wheels! They ride good, real good.
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  9. #209
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    4slomo,

    Thank you for the response. I will research that further and hopefully be wheel-building soon!

    Larsin

  10. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by in the trees View Post
    Regular folding bead tires (Schwalbe) with I23s? Yay or nay? Just wondering how these will setup tubeless with non TL-Ready tires.
    nay. earlier this year I ordered what I thought were TL version of the Fat Albert and mounted them to my i23 (26"). They would blow off on every medium sized jump and under hard cornering. Took me an email to Schwalbe with the serial # to find out they weren't TL ready. Starting last year (I think), all of Schwalbe tires are TL ready, even if they're folding bead. The tires I had bought were older still.
    continuous growth is the strategy of a cancer cell.

  11. #211
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    So I've been following this thread from the beginning. I'm leaning towards using the i23's. I have found about 3 sets of these wheels built up with DT Swiss 350 hubs. 2 are brand new and 1 used. My question is in regards to the DT 350's. Is it a quality hub? How many poe's? Any issues with them from any users here? I'm 6'2" 180 with gear.
    http://kevinboyer.zenfolio.com/


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  12. #212
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    Well after a warrantied rim, and a good few rides back under me, I'm happy to report no further issues! The rim in question did indeed have far too much spoke tension, and coupled with me being an awful wheel builder, the torn spoke hole was kind of inevitable really. So this time I ponied up a few bucks and had my shop lace it up and check my front wheel for correct tension while they were at it! Awesome rims, light, really stiff, and make my 2.2 tires look (and grip) like 2.4's!
    2009 GT Sanction 2.0
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  13. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevinboyer View Post
    So I've been following this thread from the beginning. I'm leaning towards using the i23's. I have found about 3 sets of these wheels built up with DT Swiss 350 hubs. 2 are brand new and 1 used. My question is in regards to the DT 350's. Is it a quality hub? How many poe's? Any issues with them from any users here? I'm 6'2" 180 with gear.
    350 should be very solid hubs. They replace 340 in DT lineup. As a Star Ratchet type hub, they have 18 POE stock and can be upgraded to 36 POE, but the latter is much more demanding with respect to correct greasing. The coasting mechanism is very modular and lightweight. Water sealing is excellent and AFAIK second to none (although this is speaking from experience with 240 and 340 hubs).


    Spykr,
    that's good news. Directional drilling certainly makes it easy to keep tightening the spokes beyond 120 kgf.
    26" faithful.

  14. #214
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    [QUOTE=J. Random Psycho;9799852]350 should be very solid hubs. They replace 340 in DT lineup. As a Star Ratchet type hub, they have 18 POE stock and can be upgraded to 36 POE, but the latter is much more demanding with respect to correct greasing. The coasting mechanism is very modular and lightweight. Water sealing is excellent and AFAIK second to none (although this is speaking from experience with 240 and 340 hubs).


    Thanks J. Random Psycho. Is 18 POE a "good" number when it comes to POE?
    http://kevinboyer.zenfolio.com/


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  15. #215
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    kevinboyer,
    well... that depends on whether you have already tasted high POE hubs )
    16-18 feels broken at first if you're used to, say, 48.
    Modern top of the line hubs have those numbers at like 72 and 120.
    Mid range hubs are at numbers like 24, 30 and 36.

    Personally I'm fine with 24 (Hammerschmidt to fixed hub) and can get used to 18 if needed.
    On another bike I'm just as fine with 48 (Hope Pro 2 Trials) but going to go back to instant engaging silent clutch (True Precision Poacher). Ahhh, the silence.

    DT Swiss Star Ratchet hubs are rather quiet at 18 POE, by the way. And you don't have to apply lots of grease to achieve it. That's very good in my book.
    26" faithful.

  16. #216
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    What width of WTB rim tape are you guys using for the i23? The 28 mm?

  17. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by cackalacky View Post
    What width of WTB rim tape are you guys using for the i23? The 28 mm?
    Yes, use the 28mm tape.
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  18. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by cackalacky View Post
    What width of WTB rim tape are you guys using for the i23? The 28 mm?
    1" Gorilla Tape fits as well.

  19. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by in the trees View Post
    1" Gorilla Tape fits as well.
    Thick tape adversely affects the bead lock shape.
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  20. #220
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    Bringing back an old thread,

    Im looking to build a set of i23 rims on dt swiss 240 hubs to replace my tired Mavis sx wheel set. I have only built a handful of wheels and I'm having trouble deciding if I should go with dt swiss super comp or comp spokes? I'm 190lbs ready to ride. I want a light but strong wheel set for trail/am riding with drops to 4' with smooth landings. Nothing to aggressive and no bike park use. Will the comp spokes be noticeably more stiff than the super comp spokes at hard corners/hard pedaling?

  21. #221
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    I'd go with super comps. A 32-spoke, 3-cross laced wheel (what i23 are designed for) is going to be stiff enough laterally and torsionally with any conceivable spokes, but with thinner spokes it will be stronger.
    26" faithful.

  22. #222
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    How is an i19 compared to the Arch? I'm talking about durability and feel. Is it easier to mount a tire on a wider or narrower inner rim width, 19 vs 21?
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  23. #223
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    I've had Arches then i23's and now FlowEX 650b's.
    I think they are all very equivalent in terms of durability, stiffness, and ease of build.
    The only trouble I had was with the Stan's rear hub.
    I haven't seen any difference in mounting tires on either of my Stan's vs the WTB hoops. All were very easy. I haven't ever had to use anything other than a floor pump to set up tires tubeless.

  24. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by mestapho View Post
    I've had Arches then i23's and now FlowEX 650b's.
    I think they are all very equivalent in terms of durability, stiffness, and ease of build.
    The only trouble I had was with the Stan's rear hub.
    I haven't seen any difference in mounting tires on either of my Stan's vs the WTB hoops. All were very easy. I haven't ever had to use anything other than a floor pump to set up tires tubeless.
    That's all I needed to hear. Thanks and a rep +
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  25. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by J3SSEB View Post
    How is an i19 compared to the Arch? I'm talking about durability and feel. Is it easier to mount a tire on a wider or narrower inner rim width, 19 vs 21?

    Pretty much what mestapho said.

    I've got a mix of Arch, Flow, and i19 rims in use on three different bikes - functionally, when getting them up and running tubeless, I've not been able to tell a difference. They've all been equally easy.

    Caveat: all with yellow tape, a cup of sealant, and either tubeless ready or full UST tires.

    I'm not a hack, ride fairly smoothly, am only 150# soaking wet, and have not been gentle with any of them - they're all working beautifully.

    If you're a much larger mammal, or ride like a bowling ball, then the wider rims may work out better, or if you want to run biiiig tires.
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