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  1. #351
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    Just a minor reminder that the Pacenti rims do not have the little inner lip that prevents the bead from falling into the center channel.

  2. #352
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    The presentation seems to show the new XC ST i19 rims won't have the I-beam, and the AM Frequency i23 and i25 rims will have the I-beam. No mention of the KOM rims in this presentation.

    Quote Originally Posted by ziscwg View Post
    Here's a link to a weird presentation I found giving some info by searching for I25.


    Presentation by Kevin Lai on Prezi

    I have no clue if it's by anyone important or not.
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  3. #353
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    Hi I have asked this before and got 2 different answers but will I be able to mount a 2.25 exo ardent tire to the i23 rim, it is not a specific tubeless ready tire. If not what tires work well with these rims for am riding. I live in Scotland so it's wet a lot not really dry dusty trails. I normally use high roller/ adrent combo all year so something like that would be good.

  4. #354
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    Quote Originally Posted by monkeyninja View Post
    Hi I have asked this before and got 2 different answers but will I be able to mount a 2.25 exo ardent tire to the i23 rim, it is not a specific tubeless ready tire.
    It will readily mount and is rated to work as intended with a tube. For tubeless, the LUST/UST version of this tire is rated to work correctly with the i23 since it is a UST spec rim.

    If you want to use the EXO version tubeless, then who knows. It'll likely air up OK but you will have a higher likelihood of tire burps or rolling the tire off the rim.

    Assuming you want tubeless, I'd look at any tire that is rated "Tubeless Ready" or UST. For example:
    - UST/LUST versions of the Ardent
    - TR (aka tubeless ready) versions of the Highroller II
    - Schwalbe Nobby nic or Hans Dempf "TL Ready" with Snakeskin
    - Specialized "2Bliss" tires w/Control (Purgatory, Butcher)

  5. #355
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    WTB Frequency i23 AM wheelset: alternative to Flow rims

    And other tubeless tire nomenclature (I have used these on i23s with Stan's liquid with success):

    Bontrager's TLR
    WTB's TCS (tubeless compatible system)
    Geax's TNT (tube/no-tube)

  6. #356
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    What carnut said. I have had excellent results with Specialized 2bliss tyres on my i23s.

  7. #357
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    Thanks for the suggestions will look at specialzed

  8. #358
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    WTB Frequency i23 AM wheelset: alternative to Flow rims

    I just mounted a tire on my Frequency i23 for the first time.

    WTB rim tape and valve. Bonty TLR tire (previously used). No sealant. Dry (no soapy water).

    Mounted on rim easily.
    Inflated with a floor pump with normal effort (not super fast or hard).
    Immediately captured air and the bead seated at 10-15psi. Have air leaking around the valve. Not sure if it is the valve or my tape job.
    Update: a bit of sealant and the valve stopped leaking. Not fond of these rubber cone base valves.
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  9. #359
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    It looks like they've dropped the inner bead retainer on the i25


  10. #360
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    I have just received a pair of i23 26" 2013 from CRC, both WT69 alloy.
    Bad news: they are around 490g each!
    So the alloy change doesn't mean they are lighter. I guess it's the extrusion process variation that play here.
    I found out also that the holes are very unclean inside. Not very good for the nipple seating if not cleaned before lacing.

  11. #361
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    Quote Originally Posted by gumby. View Post
    It looks like they've dropped the inner bead retainer on the i25

    I think it is still there. Just hard to see from the lighting in the pic.
    Can't a guy get bombed and call his ex at 3 in the morning without it meaning something?!

  12. #362
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    Quote Originally Posted by djr8505 View Post
    I think it is still there. Just hard to see from the lighting in the pic.
    ...and there is likely a big bur from slicing.

  13. #363
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    Shiggy, for the rubber cone valve I just cut a piece of inner tube into a little square and cut a slit in it then slid it over the valve stem and then trimmed it to a circle around the cone. I then tightened the valve tighter into the rim and it won't pull through and seals better by filling in any voids.

  14. #364
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy View Post
    I just mounted a tire on my Frequency i23 for the first time.

    WTB rim tape and valve. Bonty TLR tire (previously used). No sealant. Dry (no soapy water).

    Mounted on rim easily.
    Inflated with a floor pump with normal effort (not super fast or hard).
    Immediately captured air and the bead seated at 10-15psi. Have air leaking around the valve. Not sure if it is the valve or my tape job.
    Update: a bit of sealant and the valve stopped leaking. Not fond of these rubber cone base valves.
    I just put a Hans Damph on mine with 28mm tape and Stans stem. The tire went on a little too easy. I'm used to Mavic UST rims. However, it aired up with my floor pump and locked in at 20 psi.

    I rode the set up 2 hrs later and it was solid all day. I was a little concerned with how easy the tire went on and it might burp on the trail. I had no burping, farting, or puking from my newly mounted tire.
    Lead by my Lefty............... right down the trail, no brakes.

  15. #365
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    The Damph is a pretty awesome tire. I'm running them front and rear on i23s at about 25 pounds and they have been rock solid. I continue to be impressed with the performance and longevity of this tire.

  16. #366
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    So, I guess I should answer the OP question for way back.

    Is the I23 an alterative for the Flow rim???

    I give it a resounding yes. I'd even say it's an upgrade as it has a real locking UST type bead and can take high spoke tensions.
    Lead by my Lefty............... right down the trail, no brakes.

  17. #367
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    And it has the extra vertical wall for more strength. And weighs about the same. And the directional drilling feels so great to build with. And they are much cheaper, at the expense of quality however (but ZTR are hard to even approach in quality).

  18. #368
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    WTB Frequency i23 AM wheelset: alternative to Flow rims

    Quote Originally Posted by ziscwg View Post
    So, I guess I should answer the OP question for way back.

    Is the I23 an alterative for the Flow rim???

    I give it a resounding yes. I'd even say it's an upgrade as it has a real locking UST type bead and can take high spoke tensions.
    The i23 is a valid option for tubeless rims.

    The other brand mentioned is not an option for me, with or without tubes, because of the non-standard design.
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  19. #369
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    Does anyone know when the i25 is gonna be released? Is this rim equal to a flow ex as the i23 is like a flow? I'm looking to build up some new tubeless wheels for my banshee spitfire v2, I am new to tubeless so fancy giving it a try, I use this bike for everything expect full on dh I have a big bike for that, so the wheels need to stand up to a fair bit of abuse, I weigh 80kg and regularly hit jumps and drops.

    So i23 or i25?

  20. #370
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    Until I hear differently, I don't expect to see the new rims before Fall 2013. My understanding is that the rims are not intended for significant jumping, more for riding with your tires on the ground.

    Quote Originally Posted by 4slomo View Post
    The last I heard from WTB was them telling me that they anticipate the new rims to arrive Fall 2013.
    Hey everybody, ride my wheels! They ride good, real good.
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  21. #371
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    WTB Frequency i23 AM wheelset: alternative to Flow rims

    Quote Originally Posted by 4slomo View Post
    ...My understanding is that the rims are not intended for significant jumping, more for riding with your tires on the ground.
    WTB has "gravity" as one of the intended uses.
    http://www.wtb.com/products/frequency-team

    Longevity while jumping is more about the rider than the rim.
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  22. #372
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    I've heard back from WTB, here's the latest info:

    WTB expects to get the Frequency i25 rim in stock in October/November.

    The new website is/was ahead of itself regarding the i25. Rim intended usage information on the new website is/was a little vague: the i19 is intended for XC, the i23 for AM/enduro, and the i25 for gravity (DH riding/racing, FR, aggressive enduro). The i23 is being used by some as a lighter weight race style DH rim.

    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy View Post
    WTB has "gravity" as one of the intended uses.
    Frequency Team | Wilderness Trail Bikes

    Longevity while jumping is more about the rider than the rim.
    Hey everybody, ride my wheels! They ride good, real good.
    I'm a wheel builder. SRLPE Wheel Works. Send me a PM.

  23. #373
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    Thanks 4slomo! I'm looking forward to the ST TCS I23 and I25.

  24. #374
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    So I have just ordered some i23 rims and am thinking of running them with specialized butcher/purgotory control tires. This is my 1st experience with tubeless, I have ordered some 25 mm stans tape and valves. I have watched the stans video... is it just a case of applying 1 layer of tape with a small overlap and then seating the tires using soapy water and then once they are properly seated I add the sealant as per the video

  25. #375
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    Pretty much what I did.
    - One layer of slightly overlapping 25 mm stans tape.
    - Added valve and removed core.
    - Installed tyre (mine are purg/captain).
    - Inflated to seat the bead.
    - Added stans via the syringe injector.
    - Reinstalled valve core.
    - Reinflated.
    - Let is sit for 24 hours with occassional swirling to move the stans around and get a proper seal, but it wasn't really needed.
    Good to go!

  26. #376
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    Pretty much that's it.

    You'll want to pull the yellow tape very tight and keep it straight in the channel as you pull it around. Its very tough tape, so you're basically pulling as hard as you can. A couple of people who's opinion I trust recommend putting down 2 full layers. But I got that advice after I've set up several sets and I was find with 1 pass and overlap.

    I have had decent luck with Purgatory and Escar2 tires on the i23. Better luck with Hans Damphs and Nobby Nicks.

  27. #377
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    Thanks for that.. do you like that tire combo? What kind of trails/riding do you do? Is it dry or wet where you ride?

  28. #378
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    Yeah, I think road tubeless needs two layers. AFAIK, mtb is fine with one. But at the end of the day, both will work.

  29. #379
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    Recently bought a pair of 26" i23 rims from my LBS, they were the older 7000 series alloy ones and both came in at 477g on my scale. Tensioned up nicely and built up pretty true, better than everything else I've used so far except Mavics, their rims are just ridiculously dead straight. I have to say that the 4D spoke drilling is pretty slick, it's like having a spoke hole eyelet without having a spoke hole eyelet, the nipples turn without binding even under high tension.

    This is my 2nd set of WTB rims, I had a set of Speedmasters back in 2000 which I was really happy with and so far the i23 is upholding that standard of quality. I've only had 5 rides on them so far but I've beat on them pretty good, I've jumped them, aired them off drops, gone through rock gardens fast & slow, put the bike sideways at warp speed, slammed through ruts, and otherwise gone out of my way to abuse them. They're still nice & true, though I did manage to chip the paint in a few spots. I think I'm going to be very happy with these rims in the long run.

  30. #380
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  31. #381
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    So, my LBS is building up a set of 26" i23s on DT 350s using DT Comp spokes and alloy nipples. Normally not the weight weenie type, but in my mind I've been targeting a set weight (before tape and valves) in the 1750-1800g range. Reading through this thread I saw the gen1 (7000-series) and gen2 (WT69) revelation and wondered which rims I'd get. (Bought through a friend via Hawley USA.) Turns out both my rims were WT69 alloy and I thought I was money. Weighed rim #1 - 449g. Nice. Weighed rim #2 - 488g!!! I've heard of gen1 i23 owners with rims that weight, but these gen2 (WT69) rims are supposed to be sub 450g (like my rim#1). My question is, is this normal standard deviation (449 vs. 488 compared to an advertised 457g)? Or do you think WTB put a new sticker on an old rim? I'm too impatient to send back to WTB, but it kinda pisses me off. Any other gen2 owners have rim weights that high? Was my 1750g target weight too low to begin with? Maybe I'm just being a baby.

    Separately, anyone running DT Comps or Super Comps on their i23s? My wheelbuilder talked me out of DB14s and SuperComps...wondering what others are running on their i23 builds???

  32. #382
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    Not going to comment on rim weight, as I personally couldn't care less.

    However, as for spokes, I built up mine (29er single speed) with DB14s and brass nipples. They have been going strong, taking all the abuse my lack of riding ability can throw at them, with no trouble what-so-ever.

  33. #383
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    Quote Originally Posted by trojan08 View Post
    Separately, anyone running DT Comps or Super Comps on their i23s? My wheelbuilder talked me out of DB14s and SuperComps...wondering what others are running on their i23 builds???
    I'm running DT comps on the rear, front wheel is DT comps on the disc side and DT revolutions on the non-disc side. I usually build my wheels with DT comps on the dished side and Revolutions on the lower tensioned side to even out the stresses on the spokes, but I couldn't source enough Revolutions on short notice to do it this time.

    As for rim weight, that's production tolerances at work, unfortunately. My guess is they're a bit lazy with changing the extrusion dies as they wear out, as the dies wear the extrusion gets a little thicker and the rim gets heavier. I'd say don't sweat it and just build the heavier rim into the back wheel.

  34. #384
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    My i23 (WT69) are both in the 480/490g ballpark, so I won't change it if I where you.

    I have received all the pieces for my set: novatec hubs, Sapim D-light (want to use supercomp but not enough stock) and alloy nipple. Total set will be around 1850-1870g total with strip and valve. I guess with lighter hubs you can be a little bit under 1800g.

  35. #385
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    I bought a set of WTB i23 (29er) with X9 hubs and got them on Saturday. I spent part of Saturday and yesterday struggling to even get them to inflate. The tires I tried using were Conti Race King 2.2's and Panaracer Driver Pro 2.2's... neither tire would inflate, even with a compressor and with the cores removed. Yesterday I added a second layer of Stan's tape to the rear in the hope that it would make the bead a bit tighter... no luck. I put a tube in and when I did, the beads on the Driver Pro snapped right into the grooves on the i23. Removing the tube was a royal pain, but I did get it out, and with one side seated, I still couldn't get the tire to inflate without using a tube.

    Given my late research, it seems that since these wheels are UST spec, that only UST tires or tubeless ready tires will work... is this correct? I didn't really buy the wheelset for the tubeless part, I needed another wheelset for commuting (my old wheelset now has that duty), but I'd really like to use these wheels to their full potential... Am I correct that I really can only use a UST, 2Bliss, TCS, or TLR tire on this rim?

  36. #386
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    I wouldn't even try installing a tube type tyre with those without a tube..

  37. #387
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    Quote Originally Posted by J. Random Psycho View Post
    I wouldn't even try installing a tube type tyre with those without a tube..
    I kind of had a feeling that these tires wouldn't set up easily or at all. I can mount the tires (using a tube) with just my hands with little to no effort. Given how loose they are on the rim, there really is no way for them to air up.

    Do UST rims fit tighter on the rim itself? Since the bead is supposedly stronger? Is there a preferred tire so far that works well on this rim? I'm kind of torn because I really like the Driver Pro's... I'd love to run those tubeless, and I'd really like to not spend any more $$...

  38. #388
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    WTB Frequency i23 AM wheelset: alternative to Flow rims

    Quote Originally Posted by allthatisman View Post
    I bought a set of WTB i23 (29er) with X9 hubs and got them on Saturday. I spent part of Saturday and yesterday struggling to even get them to inflate. The tires I tried using were Conti Race King 2.2's and Panaracer Driver Pro 2.2's... neither tire would inflate, even with a compressor and with the cores removed. Yesterday I added a second layer of Stan's tape to the rear in the hope that it would make the bead a bit tighter... no luck. I put a tube in and when I did, the beads on the Driver Pro snapped right into the grooves on the i23. Removing the tube was a royal pain, but I did get it out, and with one side seated, I still couldn't get the tire to inflate without using a tube.

    Given my late research, it seems that since these wheels are UST spec, that only UST tires or tubeless ready tires will work... is this correct? I didn't really buy the wheelset for the tubeless part, I needed another wheelset for commuting (my old wheelset now has that duty), but I'd really like to use these wheels to their full potential... Am I correct that I really can only use a UST, 2Bliss, TCS, or TLR tire on this rim?
    Yes, the Frequency is designed for tubeless use only with UST spec tubeless tires (and any tire with inner tubes).

    No matter what the rim manufacturers of non-UST "tubeless" rims tell you, using any standard tire on any rim without inner tubes is a crap shoot. They tend to hide this fact in their disclaimers. http://www.notubes.com/Warranty.aspx
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  39. #389
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy View Post
    Yes, the Frequency is designed for tubeless use only with UST spec tubeless tires (and any tire with inner tubes).

    No matter what the rim manufacturers of non-UST "tubeless" rims tell you, using any standard tire on any rim without inner tubes is a crap shoot. They tend to hide this fact in their disclaimers. Warranty
    Sigh, that's what I figured. So among those 4 "tubeless" tire varieties, namely the Specsh 2-Bliss, would I be good with a set of 2-Bliss Captain Controls?

  40. #390
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    WTB Frequency i23 AM wheelset: alternative to Flow rims

    Quote Originally Posted by allthatisman View Post
    Sigh, that's what I figured. So among those 4 "tubeless" tire varieties, namely the Specsh 2-Bliss, would I be good with a set of 2-Bliss Captain Controls?
    I have no experience with the current 2Bliss tires. I know the WTB TCS, Bonty TLR, Geax TnT, and Hutchinson tubeless ready models work well, and Schwalbe TR do OK.
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  41. #391
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    I have no issues running Specialized 2 Bliss tires with my Frequency's so far. Setup easily and hold air without problem.

  42. #392
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    Quote Originally Posted by ianick View Post
    I have no issues running Specialized 2 Bliss tires with my Frequency's so far. Setup easily and hold air without problem.
    29er? Which tires and what pressure do you run them at. According to Specialized specs, their tires have a min pressure rating of 35 psi... at that pressure, there's no reason for me to even consider tubeless, since if I run my tubed tires at 40, I never get flats.

  43. #393
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    Check here for Speshy's recommended tire pressure: http://www.specialized.com/media/wha...G0290_revA.pdf

    I just mounted a set of 2.3 Purgatories on i23 x29's. They mounted easy peazy with just a floor pump (valve core removed, soap suds on the beads). I run them at typical tubeless pressures, meaning high 20's for a 200lb hack riding 2.2" tires.

    And yes, I said 2.2" tires. Contrary to prior Spec' tires, these measure 2.20" at the knife edge of the side knob and 2.17" at the casing. That's at 30psi after letting them stretch for 2 weeks.

    Other than the size issue, I've been very happy with them for all purpose trail riding.

  44. #394
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    Quote Originally Posted by car_nut View Post
    Check here for Speshy's recommended tire pressure: http://www.specialized.com/media/wha...G0290_revA.pdf

    I just mounted a set of 2.3 Purgatories on i23 x29's. They mounted easy peazy with just a floor pump (valve core removed, soap suds on the beads). I run them at typical tubeless pressures, meaning high 20's for a 200lb hack riding 2.2" tires.

    And yes, I said 2.2" tires. Contrary to prior Spec' tires, these measure 2.20" at the knife edge of the side knob and 2.17" at the casing. That's at 30psi after letting them stretch for 2 weeks.

    Other than the size issue, I've been very happy with them for all purpose trail riding.
    Thanks for the info! Yeah my buddy bought a Control GC 26" 2.3 and a Purgatory 26" S-Works 2.4 and the GC was by far wider... He returned it and got another GC... seems to be happy with it. I used to have the Fast Trak LK on my old Stumpjumper 29, but I think I might want something more beef castle!

  45. #395
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    Quote Originally Posted by allthatisman View Post
    I kind of had a feeling that these tires wouldn't set up easily or at all. I can mount the tires (using a tube) with just my hands with little to no effort. Given how loose they are on the rim, there really is no way for them to air up.

    Do UST rims fit tighter on the rim itself? Since the bead is supposedly stronger? Is there a preferred tire so far that works well on this rim? I'm kind of torn because I really like the Driver Pro's... I'd love to run those tubeless, and I'd really like to not spend any more $$...
    buy some proper ust spec tires, you'll be glad you did. you say your eally love the tires you have now but you will probably love a wider range of tires once your able to realize the benefits of tubeless

  46. #396
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    So I think I've narrowed down a tire (based on my riding style, etc.) and I just wanted to confirm that these Maxxis Ikons will do the trick:

    Maxxis Ikon 29er Tire

    3C, Maxxspeed EXO, TR. They seem like fast, lightweight, tubeless ready tires that should wear better than RR's, and possibly seat better. I'm ready to pull the trigger on these, otherwise I was going to maybe go with Specialized Ground Control 29 2.3's. A bit different style of tire... not as fast, but a bit beefier. I'd prefer a speedier tire.

    Thoughts?

  47. #397
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    Quote Originally Posted by J. Random Psycho View Post
    Well, some tire-rim combos are just a beetch to set up tubeless even if they are both UST. I remember having to fight with a pair of Continental Mountain King 2.2" UST and Mavic XM819 Disc back in 2008. Did the soap trick, the belt trick, had high volume track pump, but sweated profusely while working the pump nevertheless. XC Schwalbes and Maxxises of the time set up quickly on the same rims.
    What's the belt trick???

    My worst case of tire seating had me blasting it with a compressor with the valve core out.
    Lead by my Lefty............... right down the trail, no brakes.

  48. #398
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    WTB Frequency i23 AM wheelset: alternative to Flow rims

    Quote Originally Posted by ziscwg View Post
    What's the belt trick???

    My worst case of tire seating had me blasting it with a compressor with the valve core out.
    Totally unnecessary when you are using proper tubeless tires and rims.
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  49. #399
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy View Post
    I have no experience with the current 2Bliss tires. I know the WTB TCS, Bonty TLR, Geax TnT, and Hutchinson tubeless ready models work well, and Schwalbe TR do OK.
    I put a Spec Captain Control 2bliss 2.2 on the I23 with no issues. I also did an older FastTrak 2.2.

    As for Schwalbe, the Hans Damph went on no problem. However, the Nobby Nic 2.25 TR 4-Cross edition was a pain in the perverbial back side.
    Lead by my Lefty............... right down the trail, no brakes.

  50. #400
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy View Post
    Totally unnecessary when you are using proper tubeless tires and rims.
    Got it

    I tried to put a std tire on tubeless once. I was not worth the effort to me since there are so many good choices out there.

    So, I will likely never need to use a belt
    Lead by my Lefty............... right down the trail, no brakes.

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