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  1. #176
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    One person's FR is another's AM. One's AM is another's Trail. One's Trail is another's XC. The labels are just that: Labels.

    A Frequency i23 is not likely going to hold up to consistent 6ft drops and and bigger jumps. It should do okay with 3-4ft drops and medium jumps.

    Rider weight, riding style, terrain type, bike design, wheel design lifetime, and etc. all factor into how well a set of wheels will work for a rider.

    Happy riding!

    Quote Originally Posted by fermenter View Post
    I toiled over the decision to buy these for some of the same reasons but decided I could (and did) flat spot heavier costly rims too. Well I do have a mild flat spot now, never heard the strike, and it did come through the top wall ever so slightly. I'm not disapointed really due to the price but I would call these cross country/trail rims. Def not all mountain.
    Cheers!
    Hey everybody, ride my wheels! They ride good, real good.
    I'm a wheel builder. SRLPE Wheel Works. Send me a PM.

  2. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4slomo View Post
    One person's FR is another's AM. One's AM is another's Trail. One's Trail is another's XC. The labels are just that: Labels.

    A Frequency i23 is not likely going to hold up to consistent 6ft drops and and bigger jumps. It should do okay with 3-4ft drops and medium jumps.

    Rider weight, riding style, terrain type, bike design, wheel design lifetime, and etc. all factor into how well a set of wheels will work for a rider.

    Happy riding!
    Ha I agree with everything you said but I still wouldn't call 'em all mountain for the average rider. I am enjoying the lower cost and lighter weight. I hope WTB comes out with a beefier and wider version. I asked them and they won't tell so I think it is being worked on. How about an I27?

    I have given it 3-4 foot drops to flat, well maybee not 4, and it holds up. I think the flat spot is a rock strike as that is the normal cause of flat spots for me.

    Happy riding? Thanks! Many happy rides to you all.

  3. #178
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    A trend towards low, wide profile MTB rims seems to be emerging, so I'd think WTB too may come up with something like i27.
    26" faithful.

  4. #179
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    well well see how mine holds up with roughish riding under my #220! i dont do big drops on that bike but do hit some rock gardens. If tehy come out with an i27 thatd be awesome, replace my heavy halo combats on my blindside.
    '14 rocky mountain altitude, rally edition
    '11 transition blindside

  5. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by murrdogg11 View Post
    I dont like to hear that! i bought these hoping they would be at least as strong as the flow's which held up great for me in the past.
    My thought...........
    If he's flat spotting beefier rims too, it's not all the rim. The tire pressure and shock tuning to the big hits should probably be considered.

    We all want the best ride in all conditions, but we need to plan for the worst hits. Those are the things that break bike parts and body parts.
    Lead by my Lefty............... right down the trail, no brakes.

  6. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by ziscwg View Post
    My thought...........
    If he's flat spotting beefier rims too, it's not all the rim. The tire pressure and shock tuning to the big hits should probably be considered.

    We all want the best ride in all conditions, but we need to plan for the worst hits. Those are the things that break bike parts and body parts.

    It's my tire pressure for sure but I am running more pressure because I measured these walls to be thinner than the 721's they replaced. As strong as Flows? I couldn't tell you but some people say Flows are soft.

    Rear tire (singlewall EXO) is at 30psi for a Maxxis 2.4 and 32 psi for 2.5. The 2.5's are slightly shorter than the 2.4's you know.

    Flat spots will be my cost of riding at a low pressure no matter what. I don't think I will raise the pressure much. Shock tuning is where I like it.

    I like the rims. I can flick the bike around a little bit more with them. Good times. I'd pay a bit more and give up some light weight for the I27 if they make it.
    Wanted 823's for ever. Now I don't think I want to go that heavy after riding these I23's.

    Cheers!

  7. #182
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    WTB i19 29er, CK ISO, DT Swiss Comp - 1500grams

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesnorton View Post
    just picked up a set of CK hubs laced to 29er wtb frequency i19's pretty darn light. however i didn't get to weigh in grams but under 4lbs for the set w/o cassette.
    I had the same:1500 grams the set.
    Front comes in at 660gms and the rear at 840gms.
    Photo attached.

    Of course, the weight savings was canceled out when I went with Bronson 2.2 in front and Wolverine 2.2 in the back, as well as a dropper post (not pictured)... but boy do I love the set up!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails WTB Frequency i23 AM wheelset: alternative to Flow rims-img_1475_lores.jpg  


  8. #183
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    I've had mine built up for roughly months now. Tubeless setup was a piece of cake, the wheels feel very stiff, the extra width of the 23mm inner profile gave me gobs more traction, no pinch flats since I got 'em, and they look super clean. Took the stickers off during building because truing them with the stickers on was a bit annoying. Working very well with the Lefty too!
    WTB Frequency i23 AM wheelset: alternative to Flow rims-goodrim.jpg

    And then this happened...
    WTB Frequency i23 AM wheelset: alternative to Flow rims-brokenrim.jpg

    I had noticed the rear wheel was out of true yesterday when I was just cruising around the neighborhood bike path. I had decided I'd take it into the shop today and get it all trued up, figuring it was because of the rim's natural break in period. But when I put it up on my stand to get it all cleaned up before taking it into the shop...I noticed a spoke nipple had torn right through the spoke hole! Yaaaay! I've only had the things for a few months so they SHOULD be warrantied, and it's likely just a manufacturing defect. Still not exactly happy about it!
    2009 GT Sanction 2.0
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  9. #184
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    4slomo, I'm interested in the i19's rather than the i23's. The 23s' strength is unquestionable to me, can't tell that about the 19's though. What do you think, will an i19 build with supercomps work fine on a hardtail (Giant XTC Aluminum) used a 60-65 kilo rider for commuting round the city (basically everyday riding, using the bike instead of a car or public transport)? The rider is skilled, but still has to jump down from curbs (we have a lot of these in Russia, no dedicated bike roads at all you see) or small obstacles.

    The professional wheel builder we have here said our rim choice was basically crap and the rims will be dead soon, is that true?

    Thank you!

  10. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaWiseNuthatch View Post
    4slomo, I'm interested in the i19's rather than the i23's. The 23s' strength is unquestionable to me, can't tell that about the 19's though. What do you think, will an i19 build with supercomps work fine on a hardtail (Giant XTC Aluminum) used a 60-65 kilo rider for commuting round the city (basically everyday riding, using the bike instead of a car or public transport)? The rider is skilled, but still has to jump down from curbs (we have a lot of these in Russia, no dedicated bike roads at all you see) or small obstacles.

    The professional wheel builder we have here said our rim choice was basically crap and the rims will be dead soon, is that true?

    Thank you!
    I think that, provided the build is good, you should be fine with i19/super comps at your weight and intended purpose. In around May this year I built a set of those with Sapim Race for a guy slightly heavier than you, and he didn't complain yet.


    What does worry me is that fatigue failure pictured above, This may suggest big variance in quality of Frequency series rims.
    26" faithful.

  11. #186
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    What does worry me is that fatigue failure pictured above, This may suggest big variance in quality of Frequency series rims.
    Apparently it was due to spoke tension being too high, at least that's what the woman at the warranty center told my bike shop. But I'm inclined to believe it was that accompanied by a manufacturing defect of some sorts. I'll give it an interior look when I get it back.

    Good news is that it WILL be warrantied and the replacement will be here in a day or so!
    2009 GT Sanction 2.0
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    1994 C'dale M400

  12. #187
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    Honestly I prefer the eyleted Laser TCS, the generation before the Frequency. Removing eyelets doesn't bring any major advantage weightwise, but suits better for the not super-skilled wheel builder.

  13. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by J. Random Psycho View Post
    I think that, provided the build is good, you should be fine with i19/super comps at your weight and intended purpose. In around May this year I built a set of those with Sapim Race for a guy slightly heavier than you, and he didn't complain yet.


    What does worry me is that fatigue failure pictured above, This may suggest big variance in quality of Frequency series rims.
    Well this is for my mother, not for me, I don't commute daily, too boring

    As far as the picture above, it does worry me, indeed, but well crap happens I called wtb yesterday, they said the i19's should be fine, and gave me the recommended spoke tension values, so that the builder doesn't overtighten the spokes, well if he has the required tension tools of course.

  14. #189
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    4slomo, in the first post you specified a 120kgf max tension, whereas a wtb representative I was talking to yesterday told me 110kgf is the maximum for both the i19's and i23's. Is 10kgf that much of a difference? Which manuals / techdocs did you consult to find out the 120kgf value?

    Thank you!

  15. #190
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    120 kgf is typical tension for most rims and hubs. I'd think that WTB must have gathered enough failure reports since the Frequency rims were released to suggest slightly lower tension.

    Dammit. I've been building all Frequency wheels with 120 kgf.
    26" faithful.

  16. #191
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    Now there's this new Flow EX.. so many options these days And I don't quite like the pic above, should I now be selling both the i19 and i23 to an unlucky guy and get the ZTR? Now ZTR is sometimes said to be crap as well, like it's too soft and goes out of true quite often.. who's right dammit? Or are all those rims faulty except DeeMax?

  17. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaWiseNuthatch View Post
    Now there's this new Flow EX.. so many options these days And I don't quite like the pic above, should I now be selling both the i19 and i23 to an unlucky guy and get the ZTR? Now ZTR is sometimes said to be crap as well, like it's too soft and goes out of true quite often.. who's right dammit? Or are all those rims faulty except DeeMax?
    Have you had any issues? If not, keep riding them.

  18. #193
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    when I called wtb to get max rec. tension a few months ago on teh i23 26" rim, she said, between 110 and 118 kgf. I built them at 113 or so.
    '14 rocky mountain altitude, rally edition
    '11 transition blindside

  19. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shalom View Post
    Have you had any issues? If not, keep riding them.
    I prefer not to wait until I face issues

    Well let's try then. Anybody know how real the WTB warranty is? Will they send a replacement rim to Russia, any experience with that anybody?

  20. #195
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    I wouldnt worry too much about that one picture on this thread of a pulled-out nipple. Looks like simply the result of overtension to me. Getting Flows instaed isnt the answer, they have an evemn lower recommended tension.
    '14 rocky mountain altitude, rally edition
    '11 transition blindside

  21. #196
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    Wink

    I received an email from WTB today confirming that the Frequency rims are designed for a maximum spoke tension of 125kgf. I had mentioned that I have been building to a maximum of 120kgf, and the response was that my maximum tensions were "perfect." Remember that inexpensive spoke tension meters may not give accurate spoke tensions, and that if your spokes are overtensioned the nipples may pull through the rim spoke holes.

    The WTB catalog has a recommended ETRTO tire size range of 28-62mm for the i19 rims. If you are jumping down from curbs and small objects, I would consider riding tire widths of 56-60mm to get sufficient internal tire volume to prevent flat spotting the rims. Some people find that tires wider than 55mm have better support when mounted on a wider rim, such as the i23 rim. Think of the i19 rim as a rim for riding smooth surfaces (such as for smooth trails) and the i23 rim as a rim for riding rough surfaces (such as for rough trails).

    I also like Competition spokes better than Supercompetitions, double butted with a 2.0mm spoke diameter at the rim, and brass nipples rather than aluminum nipples for increased durability.

    Quote Originally Posted by DaWiseNuthatch View Post
    4slomo, I'm interested in the i19's rather than the i23's. The 23s' strength is unquestionable to me, can't tell that about the 19's though. What do you think, will an i19 build with supercomps work fine on a hardtail (Giant XTC Aluminum) used a 60-65 kilo rider for commuting round the city (basically everyday riding, using the bike instead of a car or public transport)? The rider is skilled, but still has to jump down from curbs (we have a lot of these in Russia, no dedicated bike roads at all you see) or small obstacles.

    The professional wheel builder we have here said our rim choice was basically crap and the rims will be dead soon, is that true?

    Thank you!
    Hey everybody, ride my wheels! They ride good, real good.
    I'm a wheel builder. SRLPE Wheel Works. Send me a PM.

  22. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaWiseNuthatch View Post
    a wtb representative I was talking to yesterday told me 110kgf is the maximum for both the i19's and i23's.
    Quote Originally Posted by 4slomo View Post
    I received an email from WTB today confirming that the Frequency rims are designed for a maximum spoke tension of 125kgf. I had mentioned that I have been building to a maximum of 120kgf, and the response was that my maximum tensions were "perfect."
    26" faithful.

  23. #198
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    OK I see. But wait, aren't those i19 rims cross-country rated? Are there are no drops at all in cross-country, like they were riding on a parquet indoor track?

    Competitions + i23 + brand nipples == close to 1800 grams of a downhill wheelset, and I wanted to build a light hardtail here for commuting

    Looks like I'll have to sell these again and get some Sun Ringle's Inferno 23's with eyelets.

  24. #199
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    My new rear wheel is ready to go. Hope Pro II Evo 135 x 10mm thru axle on I23 26 inch rim. What to ensure the back of the trail bike was as stiff as possible while keeping the weight down. Will use it with a DT Swiss RWS, that I had from a previous setup.

    I mounted a new Muddy Mary 2.35 on it and was surprised at how tight it was. I kept the basic rim strip in place and used a tube to set it up. Hoping the tire will stretch out a bit as it was quite a struggle to get the tire on the I23 rim. Will let set for a day or so, then pull the rim strip and put a single layer of gorilla tape complete the tubeless setup. Already have the Stans valve stem and sealant.

    Can't wait to see the difference between this and the Sun Ringle Charger Expert that is now on the bike. The Chargers will be relegated to strict XC duties with some lighter weight tires. The I23 w Hope will be my main AM setup.

    I want to see if I am able to swap the end caps for a 12x142 setup and run this rear wheel on the back of my freeride bike for bigger pedal days as well. I took off the 10 x 135 caps and was happy to see a 12mm alxe inside (tested by running my 12 x 150 axle). I should be able to get rid of the second set of FR wheels and have a common set to use between the FR and trail bike. Hopefully the I23 is up to the task. It should as loads of folks have been running the original Flows on their FR bikes with success. If the I23 is equal in strength or prehaps stronger, then it should work great.

  25. #200
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    Although this is an i23 thread, I think i19 questions are just as well appropriate here:

    4slomo, do you think it is possible to use the cx ray with the i19's? Our local wheelbuilder is a big cx ray fan, but seeing the picture above, I'm not sure anymore. Not to say that the wheelbuilder says the "eyelet" drilling on the inside of the rim is uneven and low quality, have you ever come across such manufacturing defects with the Frequency rims?

    It may well be that I'll have to return the rims to chain reaction due to the bad eyelets, which is a royal hassle..

    Thank you!

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