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  1. #301
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    Quote Originally Posted by VO2 Lax View Post
    What a pain in the ass this tubeless process was. Used the air compressor, no go! So WTB's claim of seating it with a floor pump, is just that, a marketing claim. I'm sure it worked for some but not on my 29er wheels. Not bashing WTB, but I should've of know that marketing is marketing.

    To get it to work, I had to put in a tube, seat the tires, take out the tube so that one side is seated and then pumped it up with the air compressor and it finally worked. Not immediately, but after a few tries. Once seated, I deflated, took out the air core, and added Stan's via syringe, and re-pump.

    After the wheel set, unplanned TCS tires, rim tape, valves, misc. tubeless stuff, and air compressor, my tubeless curiosity set me back an close or over $1K. Sheesh...

    Hope it's worth it. I've yet to have a flat with tubes and tire liner, I know it's more weight but I'm not a gram counter and snake bites are very RARE with my low tire pressures.

    At least I got an air compressor?
    simma down now, you f'd this up i know half a dozen people with wtb tcs rims and none of the issues you mention. I seated mine with a floor pump. when I initially had trouble it was because i didn't use enough soap suds. Redid it with a liberal amount of soap suds on the tire and the rim and got it to seat right away with the floor pump. also using geax tires

  2. #302
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    I don't think he used soapy water. I recommended it on the previous page and I don't think he took the tip.

  3. #303
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    Why would I use soapy water if wtb claims you don't need it. Bottom line is this, I used everything fro the wtb tcs line and it didn't seat for me with a hand pump. And yes the tape I was tight. I'm not pissed off, Just sharing an experience. Im glad you guys had success with with other tire brands but im not going to buy an arsenal of tires to see which works.

  4. #304
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    WTB Frequency i23 AM wheelset: alternative to Flow rims

    Never had an issue with TCS tires on i23's. I've used three different TCS tires (Moto's, Bronson's and Weirwolf's) and all mounted with a floor pump. I've also mounted a non TCS Wolverine and a Maxxis TLR tire. I bet your issues came down to technique.

  5. #305
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    Quote Originally Posted by VO2 Lax View Post
    I'm not pissed off, Just sharing an experience.
    And we are just curious, so in case we can identify some problem/mistake we could learn from it.

  6. #306
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    Quote Originally Posted by VO2 Lax View Post
    Why would I use soapy water if wtb claims you don't need it.
    Because it costs like 5 cents and it works. The only time i have trouble seating tubeless tires on my i23 or mavic ust rims is when i didnt use soapy water.
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  7. #307
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    You are right it could've boiled down to technique, as stated In my postings I'm new to tubeless and my curiosity was an expensive one. So I'm hoping to let some other guy that's sitting around wondering if he/she gets all wtb tcs stuff it might not be as easy as they think or make it out to be, especially if you're new to tubeless. Or it might be easy and they can share their Experience as a newbie to tubeless and let others decide.

  8. #308
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    WTB TCS - very easy to use
    My first tubless experience went very smooth with a floor pump
    Schwalbe SnakeSkin - a pain
    Had to use the method with the tube, seat on one side and pray that the other side will seat. This is because of the stiff sidewalls
    Continental Protection - same as Schwalbe - a pain due to stiff sidewalls
    Maxxis UST - very easy with a floor pump

  9. #309
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    Quote Originally Posted by VO2 Lax View Post
    Why would I use soapy water if wtb claims you don't need it. Bottom line is this, I used everything fro the wtb tcs line and it didn't seat for me with a hand pump.
    As Dr. Phil would say. "How did that work out for you?"

    Bottom line is you posted in and people offered advice that had experience with these rims and you chose to ignore them. That is your decision. Glad you got them done though.

  10. #310
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoomerBrian View Post
    As Dr. Phil would say. "How did that work out for you?"

    Bottom line is you posted in and people offered advice that had experience with these rims and you chose to ignore them. That is your decision. Glad you got them done though.
    I get your point, what I'm trying to do is let someone that's curious about the WTB TCS system to know that it might not be as easy as marketing states, even if you use all of their products. I did all the research and watched all the videos about how you don't need an air compress, or soap suds, etc., etc., so I was just trying to see if I can do they as claim. If my tube method didn't work, I would've tried the soap suds, but I didn't get to that next level. Plus most peoples experience was a mix and match of tires and rims and soap suds.

    I am sure there are a lot of successful users out there, I was not one of them. And I'm sure it had to do something with my experience in mounting tubeless tires. So newbies to tubeless beware, your curiosity might end up costing you a bit more than planned. That's all I'm trying to say.

  11. #311
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    Well, some tire-rim combos are just a beetch to set up tubeless even if they are both UST. I remember having to fight with a pair of Continental Mountain King 2.2" UST and Mavic XM819 Disc back in 2008. Did the soap trick, the belt trick, had high volume track pump, but sweated profusely while working the pump nevertheless. XC Schwalbes and Maxxises of the time set up quickly on the same rims.

  12. #312
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    Using soapy water is standard operating procedure. Any vendor telling you that it's not is simply marketing hype. Now that you know this, try it again using soapy water and I'm sure you will be much happier with the process. The only issue I have had is a tire that was somewhat tough to get mounted onto the rim but that makes me feel good knowing that it probably won't blow off in a catastrophe either.

  13. #313
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    I'm not getting them, but somebody should...
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  14. #314
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    Quote Originally Posted by cpfitness View Post
    Using soapy water is standard operating procedure. Any vendor telling you that it's not is simply marketing hype. Now that you know this, try it again using soapy water and I'm sure you will be much happier with the process.
    I pretty much never used soapy water now. Works as is. Maybe dab a bit of sealant on the bead before pumping it up.

  15. #315
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    Ok guys, has anyone used I23 rims with a Race Bronson 2.3 stans rim tape and rim strip? I currently am running Flow rims and the thin sidewall allows for easy flat spots but overall very strong and the sidewall can be bent back. However, I don't want this issue and hte Flow EX's are wide but heavier supposedly. So I'm looking to replace a flow with a I23 and I currently use the rim strip to keep the tire on cuz the yellow tape didn't work.
    Does the WTB tape work better or worse thant he yellow tape?

  16. #316
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    Quote Originally Posted by suspman View Post
    Ok guys, has anyone used I23 rims with a Race Bronson 2.3 stans rim tape and rim strip? I currently am running Flow rims and the thin sidewall allows for easy flat spots but overall very strong and the sidewall can be bent back. However, I don't want this issue and hte Flow EX's are wide but heavier supposedly. So I'm looking to replace a flow with a I23 and I currently use the rim strip to keep the tire on cuz the yellow tape didn't work.
    Does the WTB tape work better or worse thant he yellow tape?
    Yellow tape is yellow tape regardless of who packages it, it's all the same.
    I've never had to use anything but one layer of tape to have a tire mount
    without issue on either a Stan's rim (Arch or FlowEX) or the i23.
    I've only used the TCS Bronsons and not the race version, but I believe
    the only difference is the sidewall. The bead should be the same.

  17. #317
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    Eugenemtbing used a Bronson Race 2.3 on a Frequency i23 rim and blew it off. He changed to a TCS Bronson and had excellent results since. The WTB tape is supposedly rebranded Stans tape.

    Quote Originally Posted by suspman View Post
    Ok guys, has anyone used I23 rims with a Race Bronson 2.3 stans rim tape and rim strip? I currently am running Flow rims and the thin sidewall allows for easy flat spots but overall very strong and the sidewall can be bent back. However, I don't want this issue and hte Flow EX's are wide but heavier supposedly. So I'm looking to replace a flow with a I23 and I currently use the rim strip to keep the tire on cuz the yellow tape didn't work.
    Does the WTB tape work better or worse thant he yellow tape?
    Last edited by 4slomo; 03-19-2013 at 08:27 PM.
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  18. #318
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4slomo View Post
    Eugenemtb used a Bronson Race 2.3 on a Frequency i23 rim and blew it off. He changed to a TCS Bronson and had excellent results since. The WTB tape is supposedly rebranded Stans tape.
    Yep I'm wrong they do have different beads. The TCS will be a better choice for a tubeless setup.

  19. #319
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    Hmm, so it sounds like swapping a rim strip for a tcs bead, weight wise at least. I blew a tire off a flow w just tape and required the flow strip and had no problems. I would just like to not use the tcs tires as they are sooooo heavy. I run Flows with strips and Nevegals and never burped em or got close to de beading them. I wonder if the WTB bead lock works imilarly to the Stans Bead socket, minus the shorter rim sidewall that is?

  20. #320
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    WTB Frequency i23 AM wheelset: alternative to Flow rims

    WTB was kind enough to send me a free TCS replacement on my Bronson Race, and I have many miles on it running tubeless with yellow tape and sealant on an i23 rim. Great volume and grip -- it made a good first impression on me for WTB TCS tires.

    And, yes, the non-TCS Bronson blew off my i23 on a downhill when I was running it without a tube and just sealant and tape. Since then, I have stuck with tires with UST-type beads (TCS/TNT/TLR/etc.) on my i23 wheels -- all if which are fantastic and built by 4slomo. Have had zero problems since.

  21. #321
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    Cool thanks.

  22. #322
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    Does this i23 rim make my rear (tire) look fat?

    I recently completed a 29er wheelset using the new Frequency i23 WT69 rims for Eugenemtbing. I got really nice results building the wheels, using CK hubs, CX-Ray spokes, and i23 rims.
    WTB Frequency i23 AM wheelset: alternative to Flow rims-20130305_freq-i23_ws-db14_ck-iso_rear_mtbr_p1040925.jpg
    New 29er wheelset
    Last edited by 4slomo; 03-19-2013 at 08:37 PM.
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  23. #323
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    Ooooo, the new offerings from WTB look good. A new KOM i23 (lighter rim), and even an i25!

    WTB's New Enduro, Tubeless CX, And Pavement Tires - BikeRadar

  24. #324
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    So, any idea when they will be out?

  25. #325
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    If you read the link, you now know as much as I do. Maybe ask your LBS to put in a query? Or try emailing WTB directly?

  26. #326
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shalom View Post
    Ooooo, the new offerings from WTB look good. A new KOM i23 (lighter rim), and even an i25!

    WTB's New Enduro, Tubeless CX, And Pavement Tires - BikeRadar
    Nice find Shalom! I see WTB rims in my future!

  27. #327
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    The KOM i23 looks nice! It says that the CX offerings will be ready for the 2013 season, so hopefully they'll be released by late summer...

  28. #328
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    WTB Frequency i23 AM wheelset: alternative to Flow rims

    Damn you guys are fast! I was going to post that i25 news !

    Pretty excited about both rims! The KOM i23 will make a sweeeet trail rim! That i25 looks amazing too!

    Decisions decisions...

  29. #329
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    so want the i25s and the vigilante tire!
    Last edited by dwyooaj; 03-28-2013 at 02:48 PM.
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  30. #330
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    I already want a pair of ST TCS i25 on my do-all hardtail..

  31. #331
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    WTB Frequency i23 AM wheelset: alternative to Flow rims

    4slomo, do you know how the new KOM i23s compare to the wheels you just built for me with the new WT69-alloy i23 rims?

  32. #332
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    The cross section I saw of the KOM i23 shows it doesn't have the central "I" beam construction, so it will be lighter, but likely not as strong.

    Quote Originally Posted by eugenemtbing View Post
    4slomo, do you know how the new KOM i23s compare to the wheels you just built for me with the new WT69-alloy i23 rims?
    WTB Frequency i23 AM wheelset: alternative to Flow rims-1363794127200-o4y0m5fn7ut6-670-75.jpg
    Last edited by 4slomo; 03-21-2013 at 09:01 PM.
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  33. #333
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    WTB Frequency i23 AM wheelset: alternative to Flow rims

    Ok, thanks. I would rather opt for rim strength and a slight weight penalty.

  34. #334
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    KOM i23 for the front, Frequency i23 for the rear -- looks like an intended combo to me.

  35. #335
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    Are you sure this pic is the KOM? I thought it was the other pic with I-beam...
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  36. #336
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    WTB Frequency i23 AM wheelset: alternative to Flow rims

    I think the other rim picture with the i beam is the i25 and i19.

    Until he posted it, I did not see the ibeam-less rim picture. The caption says its the KOM TCS i23.

    I wonder if the loss of the I beam will be a huge deal. Stan's and Mavic don't use it...

  37. #337
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    It's the caption in the article that's not good... I thought the version without I-Beam was for their CX rim but it does look on the wide side...

    We'll have to see for the effect of the I-Beam on stiffness but it was the reason I was considering it over the Pacenti TL28. Hopefully we can get our hands on them soon and get some feedback and reviews. Does anybody have an ETA?
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  38. #338
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    Regarding i23 weights again.. I've just weighed a pair of 26" Frequency i23, bought at CRC about 2 weeks ago. Both are 482 g.

  39. #339
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    WTB Frequency i23 AM wheelset: alternative to Flow rims

    Quote Originally Posted by J. Random Psycho View Post
    Regarding i23 weights again.. I've just weighed a pair of 26" Frequency i23, bought at CRC about 2 weeks ago. Both are 482 g.
    WT69 or 7000 alloy on stickers?

  40. #340
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    7000 series..

  41. #341
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    The last I heard from WTB was them telling me that they anticipate the new rims to arrive Fall 2013.

    Quote Originally Posted by PissedOffCil View Post
    It's the caption in the article that's not good... I thought the version without I-Beam was for their CX rim but it does look on the wide side...

    We'll have to see for the effect of the I-Beam on stiffness but it was the reason I was considering it over the Pacenti TL28. Hopefully we can get our hands on them soon and get some feedback and reviews. Does anybody have an ETA?
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  42. #342
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    Ok that's too late for me. Thx

    Quote Originally Posted by 4slomo View Post
    The last I heard from WTB was them telling me that they anticipate the new rims to arrive Fall 2013.
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  43. #343
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    Drat! If that KOM were out I'd be ordering today and have kid rolling on it by next weekend.

  44. #344
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4slomo View Post
    The cross section I saw of the KOM i23 shows it doesn't have the central "I" beam construction, so it will be lighter, but likely not as strong.



    Click image for larger version. 

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    The pic does say that's an I23, but that seems like a weak design for such a wide rim. Maybe for an i19 XC rim.
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  45. #345
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphic View Post
    Drat! If that KOM were out I'd be ordering today and have kid rolling on it by next weekend.
    I just started having my I23 wheels built up. There's always something better coming out next yr it seems. My set up will be lighter and wider than my current 819 set up.
    Lead by my Lefty............... right down the trail, no brakes.

  46. #346
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    This is the caption below the picture on BikeRadar:

    "WTB lightens up for MY2014 with the new KOM TCS i23 tubeless-compatible mountain bike rims in 26", 27.5", and 29" diameters. Claimed weights range from just 385-426g with 23mm internal widths across the board."

  47. #347
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    Quote Originally Posted by wheatgerm View Post
    Nice find Shalom! I see WTB rims in my future!
    Arrrgh I was hoping for something wider and stronger than the I23. I'll be happy to try a build onto I25's this coming winter. I 23's have a thin sidewall to the bead, at least for me. Otherwise I love them.
    Cheers!

  48. #348
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    Quote Originally Posted by fermenter View Post
    Arrrgh I was hoping for something wider and stronger than the I23. I'll be happy to try a build onto I25's this coming winter. I 23's have a thin sidewall to the bead, at least for me. Otherwise I love them.
    Cheers!
    Maybe look to some of the Pacenti rims? TL28 and DL31 are both wider than the I23s.

  49. #349
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    Sorry, but you have given some misinformation here...

    Pacenti rims model numbers give outside width, the TL28 has an inside width of 23mm, same as the i23. In addition, the TL28 is designed to be a wide XC rim, which definitely is not stronger than the i23 AM rim.

    The DL31 has an inside width of 26mm. Predictably, it is a DH rim with an outside width of 31mm. Not sure if fermenter is really looking for a DH rim.

    Quote Originally Posted by GTscoob View Post
    Maybe look to some of the Pacenti rims? TL28 and DL31 are both wider than the I23s.
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  50. #350
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    Quote Originally Posted by fermenter View Post
    Arrrgh I was hoping for something wider and stronger than the I23. I'll be happy to try a build onto I25's this coming winter. I 23's have a thin sidewall to the bead, at least for me. Otherwise I love them.
    Cheers!
    Here's a link to a weird presentation I found giving some info by searching for I25.


    Presentation by Kevin Lai on Prezi

    I have no clue if it's by anyone important or not.
    Lead by my Lefty............... right down the trail, no brakes.

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