• 10-14-2013
    dustyduke22
    Its pretty weird that some folks have nothing but good to say about the i23s and others think that they are garbage. I would love to try some, but not sure what way to trust right now...
  • 10-14-2013
    Jolly705
    I have been riding with mine for a few weeks so far and I have no complaints. They are holding up great (I know short period of time) but I would recommend especially for the price.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by dustyduke22 View Post
    Its pretty weird that some folks have nothing but good to say about the i23s and others think that they are garbage. I would love to try some, but not sure what way to trust right now...

  • 10-14-2013
    eugenemtbing
    WTB Frequency i23 AM wheelset: alternative to Flow rims
    I have been riding 2 wheelsets built by 4Slomo with i23 rims for quite a while with a variety of tires set up tubeless with Stan's, and I have been real impressed.

    My first set was probably one of the first with commercially-available i23 rims (7000 alloy) and the second set was among the first with the new alloy (WT69). I have ridden these wheels hard on a wide variety of surfaces/conditions. I have bottomed out on rocks, slid sideways, crashed, come to abrupt stops up against trees/rocks, etc. And I am no weight weenie. I weight 200 lbs before clothes/water/gear, and tend to carry way more stuff than I need.

    Anyways, the rims on both wheelsets still look like new, and they are still true as arrows. 4Slomo built them with DB spokes, brass nipples and CK hubs (1 geared and 1 SS).

    I have inflated tires tubeless with a floor pump and with a compressor. Best approach all-round seems to be: inflate the tire with a tube, ride it or let it set a day, then pull the tube and go with liquid. I have run Geax, WTB, Specialized and Bontrager tires in this fashion without problems.

    Just a quick review of my experience over the last couple years, since it appears there are others with different results.
  • 10-14-2013
    dustyduke22
    That is good to know. Are all of your tires designated 'tubeless tires', or are you running non-ust as well?
  • 10-14-2013
    eugenemtbing
    WTB Frequency i23 AM wheelset: alternative to Flow rims
    All now are some variant of "tubeless ready", i.e., TNT for Geax, TCS for WTB, etc. I am no tire expert, but I think this means UST bead and some form of non-UST casing.

    I ran some non-tubeless ready/non-UST tires with Stan's and no tubes for a period of time. But the results were too unpredictable. Not worth it for me, especially considering how reliable and fool-proof my current combination is -- i23 (UST) rims. Stan's liquid and tubeless ready tires.
  • 12-11-2013
    4slomo
    2 Attachment(s)
    A classic i23 wheel set hits the trail
    Don came to me not too long ago to build him a set of wheels for his birthday, a present to himself. He settled on 26er Frequency i23 black 32h rims, brass silver nipples, silver WS DB14 double butted spokes, and Hadley XC/SDH QR 32h silver hubs. Rotating weight 1,882g. They built up laterally and radially very true and have somewhat of an old school look to them, with the black and silver matching his frame colors. One thing about the silver finishes is that it is quite durable, his wheels are going to look great for a long time.

    Attachment 854192Attachment 854193

    His initial riding impressions: "I have about 20miles on the wheels so far and they are fantastic (they are mounted on my hard tail) I've taken it down through El Prieto 3X now and the wheels are solid and smooth!"
  • 01-01-2014
    4slomo
    1 Attachment(s)
    Bike packing, gravel grinding, internal gearing, weight carrying
    About two weeks ago I completed a custom rear wheel build for Eugenemtbing. He bike packs and also rides gravel roads, among many other XC & AM rides. For bike packing he uses a tubeless 2.4" wide UST tire, and needs to mount a cyclocross 35C tire on the wheel when swapping it for gravel grinding on another bike. So the requirements are for a quite versatile wheel. The rim selection was a WTB Frequency i23 29er rim to meet the tire requirements. Due to the bike packing weight carrying requirements, the spokes are Sapim Strong single butted spokes laced x3. For simplicity, and to minimize effects of errant sticks, he selected a Shimano Alfine 8 speed hub. Here's a photo:
    Attachment 859319
    Rotating weight (due to the hub): 2,496g!
    ...
  • 01-02-2014
    J. Random Psycho
    Why Sapim Strong and not Sapim Force (or DT Alpine 3)?
  • 01-02-2014
    4slomo
    It turns out that there are two overriding design requirements for this wheel build:

    The hub flange spoke hole diameters are about 2.9 mm. I'm willing to put a 2.0 mm j-bend in up to a 2.5-2.6 mm diameter flange spoke hole. That limits spoke choices to j-bends with a minimum 2.3 mm diameter (the Sapim Force has a 2.18 mm diameter at the j-bend).

    Secondly, the wheel build design is for a load of about 300 pounds (including rider, bike and bikepacking equipment). A 1.8 mm butted section does not give adequate durability and performance for this weight. That drops out the DT Swiss Alpine III.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by J. Random Psycho View Post
    Why Sapim Strong and not Sapim Force (or DT Alpine 3)?

  • 01-03-2014
    J. Random Psycho
    Oh, 2.9 mm is a bit too much indeed. I once had to build a 26" wheel with a huge and heavy 3 kW motor hub and 2.0 mm spokes. The hub had 3.9 mm (no typo, three point nine) holes; I used stacks of different sized brass washers. For all I know the wheel served fine (which I attribute to the beefy rim), but it certainly was not pleasant to build.


    But as for the load, do we ever get so much dynamically added tension on a spoke that the sum exceeds static tension by more than several percent? I haven't seen spokes, even 1.5 mm in diameter (or those rolled flat from 1.5 mm round spoke), exceeding their yield strength in any riding situation, including rims being destroyed by radially directed shock. (Unless of course the spokes were compromised during build by twisting too much, or a foreign object such as a rock or horse hoof hit them -- that I saw happen, and I can say that no wheel is horseproof!) What I think we should worry about with excess load is the possible momentary loss of spoke tension near contact patch. This is where fat J-bends and threadlocking come into play.
  • 01-07-2014
    eugenemtbing
    WTB Frequency i23 AM wheelset: alternative to Flow rims
    Got my Alfine 8/WTB i23 29er wheel from Steve. It is a beauty. I am not surprised, as Steve/4slomo has built other fantastic wheels for me.

    I am still collecting the Alfine bits I need to make this conversion on my 29er bikepacker. I was impressed, though, with the care Steve put into building this wheel -- and even the way he packaged it for shipping. Everything orderly and well protected. And he knew it was for bikepacking, so he included extra spokes -- drive-side and non-drive-side spokes carefully labeled.

  • 01-07-2014
    eugenemtbing
    WTB Frequency i23 AM wheelset: alternative to Flow rims
    Mounted a Geax Saguaro TNT to the rim last night. These i23 rims are so great. A little soapy water, some Stan's liquid, a few pushes on the floor pump, and it's done.
  • 01-07-2014
    Fred Smedley
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by 4slomo View Post
    It turns out that there are two overriding design requirements for this wheel build:

    The hub flange spoke hole diameters are about 2.9 mm. I'm willing to put a 2.0 mm j-bend in up to a 2.5-2.6 mm diameter flange spoke hole. That limits spoke choices to j-bends with a minimum 2.3 mm diameter (the Sapim Force has a 2.18 mm diameter at the j-bend).

    Secondly, the wheel build design is for a load of about 300 pounds (including rider, bike and bikepacking equipment). A 1.8 mm butted section does not give adequate durability and performance for this weight. That drops out the DT Swiss Alpine III.

    Can I post my builds /advertise here also?
  • 01-10-2014
    gumby.
    If they're frequencies of course you can Fred. I've been riding my i25 9rs for a couple of months and very pleased with the performance. XT 785 and 788 hubs they built up nicely.
  • 04-01-2014
    George Gr
    Hi guys,
    I've just seen the thread below http://forums.mtbr.com/wheels-tires/...ks-870550.html regarding fails on the i23's and I was wondering if any of you had the same problem.

    Is it just on the old rims with the 7000 alloy or there's a problem with the WT69 series alloy?
  • 04-02-2014
    BrentD
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by George Gr View Post
    Hi guys,
    I've just seen the thread below http://forums.mtbr.com/wheels-tires/...ks-870550.html regarding fails on the i23's and I was wondering if any of you had the same problem.

    Is it just on the old rims with the 7000 alloy or there's a problem with the WT69 series alloy?

    The 7000 alloy was problematic, the WT69 is all good.
  • 04-02-2014
    J. Random Psycho
    No cracking issues reported so far on any i19s and i23s that I built with over these years (with both alloys). I keep max tensions within 1200 N. As for rider weights that I remember, well.. no one is over 100 kg.
  • 04-02-2014
    George Gr
    Thanks a mil guys.
    I'll go for it then!
  • 04-02-2014
    jselwyn
    I hammered a set of 29er I23s and now the 27.5s. Really like them. I killed a rear and a front last year, but not too suprising. They lasted a lot longer than they should have. Aside from 1 small ding in the 27.5 rear, they're doing even better. I've blown a bead twice, both times running a Specialized Butcher Control. That tire mounts really, really easily and I no longer use them. Never had a problem with Maxxis. All mount up pretty easily.
  • 04-02-2014
    George Gr
    WTB Frequency i23 AM wheelset: alternative to Flow rims
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jselwyn View Post
    Never had a problem with Maxxis. All mount up pretty easily.

    TR or not?
  • 04-02-2014
    jselwyn
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by George Gr View Post
    TR or not?

    Both. Run Ikon on the rear in 2.35 Exo NON-TR just fine in some pretty rough terrain. Try and use TR/Exo, but I wouldn't worry about it if you found a good deal.
  • 04-02-2014
    dustyduke22
    I tried to mount a non TR EXO Maxxis Ardent 2.4 on a i23 wheelset with a tube to see if it would hold and it blew off the rim at about 35psi. Scared the $#!* out of me and left my ears ringing.

    Every TR or UST tire I have installed on the i23's, KOM's or i25's went on with minimal effort and seated the bead with a floor pump.
  • 05-13-2014
    suspman
    Frequency i25s are sick!!!!
    Hey guys I finally pulled the trigger on i25s and laced em up on my i9 wheels and they are sick. I've been chiming in on tire choice and coming from the original flow rims w non tubeless tires tape but had to use Stans rubber rim strips too. But now the i25s w gorilla tape only and Bontrager xr4 team 2.35 non tubeless work perfect!!! Saved weight w/o strips and tape is super cheap. Loving these wheels. Trying the front in dirt today for the first time.Attachment 893051
  • 05-13-2014
    BushPilot
    +1 on the i25's mated with Bonty XR4 tires and gorilla tape. I had an issue on the rear getting a good seal with the WTB tubeless tape and decided to try gorilla instead -- cheaper and better!
  • 05-13-2014
    suspman
    Thanks for the concurrence. I couldn't find the 30mm wide wtb or stans tape locally so I said Gorilla to the rescue. It may be a little heavier than yellow tape but thicker w adhesive should allow for better tire to rim mismatch of any combo. I feels super light still so I'm happy. The rims also seem very stiff compared to the Flow's I had, and I am already running the Industry 9 aluminum spoked wheels that are very stiff already. That I-beam design is good stuff! The has become more stable and less peaky, it still has a very round profile for my preferred riding style. It seems the narrower rim made the tire feel more like I was riding on a knife edge of sorts. Now I can't wait to throw the front through some turns. The ride with jus the rear new made me really notice the difference in profile.
  • 05-13-2014
    suspman
    Oh and I use the Bontrager sealant now instead of stans. I like it and it should last longer since its synthetic latex I believe.
  • 05-25-2014
    smilinsteve
    Wheel spec on my TBLTc 29er
    Front Hub DT 350
    Rear Hub DT 350
    Rims WTB Frequency Team i23 TCS
    Spokes DT 14/15 spokes, alloy nipples

    Anyone have an idea on what these weigh?
  • 05-25-2014
    meltingfeather
    WTB Frequency i23 AM wheelset: alternative to Flow rims
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by smilinsteve View Post
    Wheel spec on my TBLTc 29er
    Front HubDT 350
    Rear HubDT 350
    RimsWTB Frequency Team i23 TCS
    SpokesDT 14/15 spokes, alloy nipples

    Anyone have an idea on what these weigh?

    1,850g
  • 05-25-2014
    smilinsteve
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by meltingfeather View Post
    1,850g

    Hmmm, not bad. Thanks bro!
  • 05-29-2014
    xsanmarco
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by smilinsteve View Post
    Wheel spec on my TBLTc 29er
    Front Hub DT 350
    Rear Hub DT 350
    Rims WTB Frequency Team i23 TCS
    Spokes DT 14/15 spokes, alloy nipples

    Anyone have an idea on what these weigh?

    FWIW I have the same bike (2014) and same wheels. On my scale the wheels measure 1950g (wheels only; no rotors/bolts or cassette)
  • 06-26-2014
    Reelchef67
    Ok wake up thread!
    Wondering how these wheel sets have faired over time.?
    I myself have been riding wtb i23 wt69 versions 26rear/650b front for a couple months now.
    Mine are laced to hope pro2 evo hubs with 32 dbl dt swiss comp spokes.
    So far I am very impressed they are very stiff wheels. So much easier to control in chunky chunkier.
    I stripped the stickers off mine. Going for a "murdered out" red black theme on my build:)not original I know...
  • 06-26-2014
    djr8505
    Ive been riding on the older 7000 series i23's and the rear finally had a spoke pull through the rim. Hopefully my shop and WTB can work something out.
  • 07-12-2014
    J. Random Psycho
    Finally I've gotten around to build a wheelset with Frequency i25 Team rims. Measured ERD is 537 mm as claimed, like i23, so it's not a uniformly scaled up i23 profile. Weights are 478 and 497 g, which is rather big difference compared to ZTR rims. Anodizing quality is notably better than all i23 instances which I handled. Overall, I'd say i25 may be regarded as drop-in replacement for i23, that is with those weights I no longer see where i23 would suit better than i25. Maybe even to the point where i25 becomes *the* MTB rim of choice, unless one wants something specifically different.
  • 07-12-2014
    Burt4x4
    I am looking forward to riding on my i25 29" wheels..just a few more weeks and I should be rollin again. REad aftrer read it stays positive with the Frequency I-beam
    Should be sweet!
  • 07-12-2014
    santa cruzer73
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by djr8505 View Post
    Ive been riding on the older 7000 series i23's and the rear finally had a spoke pull through the rim. Hopefully my shop and WTB can work something out.

    I can say from personal experience WTB at least in my case has some of the best customer service Ive ever seen!
  • 07-12-2014
    Deerhill
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by J. Random Psycho View Post
    Overall, I'd say i25 may be regarded as drop-in replacement for i23, that is with those weights I no longer see where i23 would suit better than i25. Maybe even to the point where i25 becomes *the* MTB rim of choice, unless one wants something specifically different.

    Been on the i25 since it came out and agree, 4$ at this point in time, never tried the i23 but have tried the first Flow.. If the next i25 bead profile is the same, and even spoke tension can be improved, the i25 is "*the* mtb rim of choice, unless one wants something specifically different"
  • 07-12-2014
    Nubster
    What's a good price on the i25 rims? I can get them for $50 shipped each. I'm thinking about building up a new set of wheels for my Cannondale that's currently rolling on i19's (stock). I'd like something wider and better hubs.
  • 07-14-2014
    Burt4x4
    FIFTY bucks? oh are you talking about 26"?
    29" is $70 everywere...give or take a few bucks.
    I talked my wife into using her Amazon acount to buy mine LOL
  • 07-14-2014
    Nubster
    Nope. 29er. $44 per rim plus $12 shipping for one or two rims. So two rims comes to $100 shipped. So I'll take it that's a good deal...lol...I'll probably order them up tomorrow when I get my pay check in the bank. I'll just have to save a while for the hubs.
  • 07-26-2014
    mces
    Where are you getting this price?
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Nubster View Post
    Nope. 29er. $44 per rim plus $12 shipping for one or two rims. So two rims comes to $100 shipped. So I'll take it that's a good deal...lol...I'll probably order them up tomorrow when I get my pay check in the bank. I'll just have to save a while for the hubs.

  • 07-26-2014
    J. Random Psycho
    I've been brought a pair of CRC-bought i23 (WT69) labeled rims recently for wheelset build. One of them was an actual i23, another, much to my surprise, turned out to be an i25. Customer didn't notice this so I told them.

    Anodizing quality is good on both.
  • 07-29-2014
    Strife21
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by J. Random Psycho View Post
    I've been brought a pair of CRC-bought i23 (WT69) labeled rims recently for wheelset build. One of them was an actual i23, another, much to my surprise, turned out to be an i25. Customer didn't notice this so I told them.

    Anodizing quality is good on both.


    Interested in getting some 650b i23 or i25 wheels built with hope pro 2 evo hubs. Which is better i23 or i25 these would be going on a 6 in travel AM rig. He hubs I can get come in 32 and 36 hole, which is preferred? Finally what kind of spokes are recommend.

    I can can get the rims 50% off cause I work in the industry. So I figure that's going to save me a little cash.
  • 07-29-2014
    smilinsteve
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Strife21 View Post
    Interested in getting some 650b i23 or i25 wheels built with hope pro 2 evo hubs. Which is better i23 or i25 these would be going on a 6 in travel AM rig. He hubs I can get come in 32 and 36 hole, which is preferred? Finally what kind of spokes are recommend.

    I can can get the rims 50% off cause I work in the industry. So I figure that's going to save me a little cash.

    This week, i25 is better. Next week, i25 will be old news and you will have to sell them. :D
  • 07-29-2014
    J. Random Psycho
    Well, he doesn't have either ) so I'd go with i25.
  • 07-29-2014
    Lindahl
    WTB Frequency i23 AM wheelset: alternative to Flow rims
    Depends on tires, I'd think... flimsy sidewalls? Probably i25. i23 is what I'd choose. I like the lesser rotational weight and i25 is kinda overkill unless you want the stronger rim for downhilling/freeride. Heck, I'd even consider dropping down to i21 if they offered it in similar strength. The rim width game is kinda silly imo, unless running thin walled tires. Lower pressures due to higher volume? Can't do that without ripping a tire off the rim, so no benefit to me. Plus I like Minion DHFs, which have a great profile on 23mm rims.
  • 07-29-2014
    meltingfeather
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Lindahl View Post
    Depends on tires, I'd think... flimsy sidewalls? Probably i25. i23 is what I'd choose. I like the lesser rotational weight and i25 is kinda overkill unless you want the stronger rim for downhilling/freeride. Heck, I'd even consider dropping down to i21 if they offered it in similar strength. The rim width game is kinda silly imo, unless running thin walled tires. Lower pressures due to higher volume? Can't do that without ripping a tire off the rim, so no benefit to me. Plus I like Minion DHFs, which have a great profile on 23mm rims.

    Wait... you like the lower rotational weight of the 23s, which are "overkill unless you want the stronger rim for downhilling" so you can pair them with 2-1/2 pound, 2-ply downhill tires?!? Makes sense... :out:
  • 07-29-2014
    Lindahl
    WTB Frequency i23 AM wheelset: alternative to Flow rims
    For my non-DH/FR wheelset, I use single ply versions of DHFs (Exos). The flimsy sidewall tires I refer to are specificly single ply lightweight-design tires (usually, but not always, XC-oriented tires). Not all single ply tires have the same sidewall integrity.
  • 08-11-2014
    nmeuvdast8
    2 Attachment(s)
    Just finished building my wheelset. Will test it on the trails this weekend..

    Attachment 914811

    Attachment 914812
  • 08-11-2014
    ziscwg
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Reelchef67 View Post
    Ok wake up thread!
    Wondering how these wheel sets have faired over time.?
    I myself have been riding wtb i23 wt69 versions 26rear/650b front for a couple months now.
    Mine are laced to hope pro2 evo hubs with 32 dbl dt swiss comp spokes.
    So far I am very impressed they are very stiff wheels. So much easier to control in chunky chunkier.
    I stripped the stickers off mine. Going for a "murdered out" red black theme on my build:)not original I know...

    I have had a set of these running since early 2013, IIRC. I bent one beyond repair when I hit tree washing out on a turn, but that MIGHT be rider error. I relaced it up to another i23 and beat the piss out it since.

    Both are still rock solid. For the $60 I paid for the rims, they are a great deal.
  • 08-11-2014
    ziscwg
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by smilinsteve View Post
    This week, i25 is better. Next week, i25 will be old news and you will have to sell them. :D

    I just have counterfeit WTB Ixx stickers made so I look like up to date and hip going down the trail at 25 mph.