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  1. #451
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    I'm not sure of the difference, but the hub seems well made and have seen some good reviews.

  2. #452
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    Hello!
    Does anybody know i25 26'' ERD?
    some sites list 535mm but i'm not sure, need confirmation.
    Thanks.

  3. #453
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    Nice wheel. What type of rim tape did you use?

    I was hoping to use the last my of Stan Yellow 25mm wide tape for the I25 (leftover from previous i23 build) but don't know if that is wide enough.

    Thanks in advance

    Quote Originally Posted by Mac_Aravan View Post
    Glad to have WT69 alloy
    7000 alloys are very tough but prone to creaks due to fatigue, I guess that's why they replace it by WT69 (which is probably an 60xx alloy).

    Finished my pair of wheels: novatec (rebranded) hubs, sapim Dlight triple butted spokes, alloy nipple:



    No worries even in rock gardens. Some impact traces on the rims but they seems very strong and are right size for schwalbe HD. Easy to build also.

  4. #454
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    WTB recommend 30mm tape for the i25.

  5. #455
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    thanks

  6. #456
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    You're welcome, I just bought some here...

    WTB TCS RIM Tape 30mm X 11M Roll | eBay

  7. #457
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    awesome thanks again. I was looking at auction page when you entered the last reply. What a coincidence.

  8. #458
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    I just thought I would give a mini review for my i23's with Specialized Fast Trak Control 2.2's. I used 21mm Stan's tape, Stan's valves, and Stan's sealant. I applied the tape, installed the valves, and mounted the tires. I did have to use a trick I saw in a video to get the bead to rest against the sidewall using a tire lever. Basically (in case you don't know this) you lift the bead with the tire lever and run it along the length of the tire. Once you get about 3/4 around it will start to get increasingly difficult. Do both sides.

    With that done, I used my regular old Joe Blow floor pump with no sealant and inflated the tire instantly. No leaks of any kind. Deflated the tire, pulled a small section out to dump in some Stan's, and re-inflated the tire. Spun it around and then went for a ride.

    Impressions:

    So after holding out and being super sceptical about the whole tubeless craze, I was very surprised at the speed, comfort, and weight savings. I went from Panaracer Driver Pro 29" 2.2's (for sale BTW) with tubes to the above referenced tires, and couldn't be more pleased. Even on the road I immediately noticed a difference. The following day I rode 25 miles without incident and I've never been happier with my bike. The Fast Traks at ~33psi were comfy, grippy, and rolled for days. I will gradually try lowering the pressure a couple PSI at a time... but I'm thinking about 28-29 psi will be just about right for me (about 190-195 geared up). Anyway, just thought I'd share.

    Also, bike in question is a 2013 Motobecane Fly Ti 29er :-)

  9. #459
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    WTB Frequency i23 AM wheelset: alternative to Flow rims-i251.jpg

  10. #460
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    Quote Originally Posted by BushPilot View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Nice

    I took all but the WTB and I23 part of the labels of my I23s. The label just seem so big, white and full of advertising.
    Lead by my Lefty............... right down the trail, no brakes.

  11. #461
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    How was the sticker to get off? I thought about de-branding myself. I did that with some Bonty wheels and it was a PITA tho!

  12. #462
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    Quote Originally Posted by BushPilot View Post
    How was the sticker to get off? I thought about de-branding myself. I did that with some Bonty wheels and it was a PITA tho!
    It was not bad.
    I had to make a shallow cut with a razor around where I wanted the label to stop. It's thin and did not take much as you don't want to cut into the Al if you don't have to.

    I then pulled the label long ways. It left some adhesive. I just wrapped some clear packing tape sticky side out around my hand and pulled that off.

    So, each wheel took me 10 min or so.
    Lead by my Lefty............... right down the trail, no brakes.

  13. #463
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    Quote Originally Posted by ziscwg View Post
    It was not bad.
    I had to make a shallow cut with a razor around where I wanted the label to stop. It's thin and did not take much as you don't want to cut into the Al if you don't have to.

    I then pulled the label long ways. It left some adhesive. I just wrapped some clear packing tape sticky side out around my hand and pulled that off.

    So, each wheel took me 10 min or so.
    Man, I wish I could say the same thing... The adhesive was a mega PITA to get off on my wheels. I used all sorts of different chemicals after normal methods failed... Even goof off (my tried and true method) had a hard time with it... Just turned into a gluey nasty mess. I think I ended up using pure gasoline to get it off... Ymmv

  14. #464
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    I've measured one pair at 538mm ERD.

    Quote Originally Posted by 0xDEADBEEF View Post
    Hello!
    Does anybody know i25 26'' ERD?
    some sites list 535mm but i'm not sure, need confirmation.
    Thanks.
    Hey everybody, ride my wheels! They ride good, real good.
    I'm a wheel builder. SRLPE Wheel Works. Send me a PM.

  15. #465
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4slomo View Post
    I've measured one pair at 538mm ERD.
    Any comment on the recent thread about a seemingly high failure rate?
    Quote Originally Posted by pvd
    Time to stop believing the hype and start doing some science.
    29er Tire Weight Database

  16. #466
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    For everything I have heard that's why WTB switched alloys. Maybe those people got some old stock. I don't know but mine are running great so far.

  17. #467
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    Quote Originally Posted by worrptangl View Post
    For everything I have heard that's why WTB switched alloys. Maybe those people got some old stock. I don't know but mine are running great so far.
    I wish we could see the labels of the failed wheels. We could tell what alloy was used. WTB might even warranty them.
    Lead by my Lefty............... right down the trail, no brakes.

  18. #468
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    I took my stickers off I wanted to cut them down but they still looked tacky against the raw steel frame with bLack and orange and I didn't want to cut too deep since they are super thin.

  19. #469
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    Quote Originally Posted by worrptangl View Post
    I took my stickers off I wanted to cut them down but they still looked tacky against the raw steel frame with bLack and orange and I didn't want to cut too deep since they are super thin.
    wow, is it under clear powdercoat or there is some oil rubbed and baked onto it?

  20. #470
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    I may have lost my inside contact at WTB. I'll have to try lighting a fire and see if I get a response.

    Quote Originally Posted by meltingfeather View Post
    Any comment on the recent thread about a seemingly high failure rate?
    Hey everybody, ride my wheels! They ride good, real good.
    I'm a wheel builder. SRLPE Wheel Works. Send me a PM.

  21. #471
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    Quote Originally Posted by J. Random Psycho View Post
    wow, is it under clear powdercoat or there is some oil rubbed and baked onto it?
    Matte clear powder coat and the Kona stickers are under the powder coat also.

  22. #472
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4slomo View Post
    I may have lost my inside contact at WTB. I'll have to try lighting a fire and see if I get a response.
    Another awesome day on the wheels Steve Thank you!

  23. #473
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    Good job!

    I've recently built 2 nice wheels for my pump/4x hardtail.
    12mm black brass DT Swiss ProLock nipples
    260mm Sapim CX-Ray spokes
    26'' i23 rims (WT69 alloy)
    Hope Pro 2 Evo hubs (20mm and 135xQR)

    Front is 830g
    Rear is 960g
    Total 1790 (without tape and nipples, with original stickers)

    Running tubes now because i love those tires and don't want to deal with non-TR tire on a TCS rim.
    Custom stickers are Custom Rim Logo Stack - Slik Graphics
    Good.
    WTB Frequency i23 AM wheelset: alternative to Flow rims-p4pb10043725.jpg
    WTB Frequency i23 AM wheelset: alternative to Flow rims-p4pb10043723.jpg

  24. #474
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    I want to see the whole bike...

  25. #475
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    Quote Originally Posted by J. Random Psycho View Post
    I want to see the whole bike...
    Here it is)
    in Moscow, Russia - photo by OxD15EA5E - Pinkbike

  26. #476
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    Few questions :

    - Is the 28 mm WTB tape correct width for i23 Frequency Team ?
    - Is that tape required if I am going to run setup with the tube ? Or any rim tape will work (which I think are more like ~20mm wide) ?

    - Is there any point in trying to run normal Maxxiss Ardents with valve/tapes/sealant as tubeless or I have to have a tubeless-ready tire ?
    - Looking at UST or tubeless-ready tires they significantly heavier than normal ones (example - 645g for Ardent, UST-Ardent or Highroller II 2.3 TR are in 800g range) so tubeless setup will actually be heavier or am I missing something (I got the fact that it is flat "free"). ?

  27. #477
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    Quote Originally Posted by k_z View Post
    - Looking at UST or tubeless-ready tires they significantly heavier than normal ones (example - 645g for Ardent, UST-Ardent or Highroller II 2.3 TR are in 800g range) so tubeless setup will actually be heavier or am I missing something (I got the fact that it is flat "free"). ?
    UST tires are very heavy due to the sidewall/casing which was designed to be air-tight and highly puncture & cut resistant. Some tubeless variants are heavy and robust, such as Maxxis LUST and Geax TNT, while others have the square UST bead on a very lightweight casing such as Specialized 'Control' and S-Works models.

    I would use sealant with any tubeless tire and I prefer Slime Pro.

  28. #478
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    k_z, for tube setup any rim tape wide enough will do.

  29. #479
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    I heard back from WTB: When WTB was using the 7000 series alloy for the Frequency rims, most of the rims were great, but they got one bad batch of rims which they had to recall. This bad batch of 7000 series alloy is the only one where the rims have have had spoke nipples pull through. They selected the proprietary WT69 alloy as the replacement for the 7000 series alloy, WT69 has higher tensile strength. WTB has had no problems with rims using the WT69 alloy.

    Quote Originally Posted by 4slomo View Post
    I may have lost my inside contact at WTB. I'll have to try lighting a fire and see if I get a response.
    Hey everybody, ride my wheels! They ride good, real good.
    I'm a wheel builder. SRLPE Wheel Works. Send me a PM.

  30. #480
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    Quote Originally Posted by k_z View Post
    Few questions :

    - Is the 28 mm WTB tape correct width for i23 Frequency Team ?
    28 mm tape for runing tubeless.
    - Is that tape required if I am going to run setup with the tube ? Or any rim tape will work (which I think are more like ~20mm wide) ?
    With a tube, you just need to cover the spoke holes enough so your tube does not expand into them and blow.

    - Is there any point in trying to run normal Maxxiss Ardents with valve/tapes/sealant as tubeless or I have to have a tubeless-ready tire ?
    You can try it, but it may not seal. The WTB TCS rims (I23) are designed to run tubless (UST) or tubeless ready tires. YMMV

    - Looking at UST or tubeless-ready tires they significantly heavier than normal ones (example - 645g for Ardent, UST-Ardent or Highroller II 2.3 TR are in 800g range) so tubeless setup will actually be heavier or am I missing something (I got the fact that it is flat "free"). ?
    Maxis is late to the game on tubeless ready/UST and weight. WTB TCS tires work well. Specialized 2bliss work good. Schwalbe tubeless ready do well. Conti Protection series tires work, but need a tube in there for a few hrs before you make them tubeless.
    So, I answered your quesitons in line in bold
    Lead by my Lefty............... right down the trail, no brakes.

  31. #481
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    I just bought a pair of wheels with 23 rims, I am planning on purchasing specialized UST or 2bliss tires which ones seat better? I love the 2bliss captains I am running on my Bontragers. Thanks

  32. #482
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    My purgatory mounted up with a floor pump just remember to remove the valve core.

  33. #483
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    Im considering Wtb KOM 26" I23 rims.

    Will it be too crazy if I use DT Super Comp front and Sapim CX ray in rear with 20/150mm hubs for dh/aggresive enduro. Im relatively light 70kg and switch wheelset between enduro and dh bikes.

    Schwalbe normal tires will be used.

    I dont mind to get some dents and replace each second year at best.

  34. #484
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    Quote Originally Posted by worrptangl View Post
    My purgatory mounted up with a floor pump just remember to remove the valve core.
    I am not sure what you mean by remove the valve core. The Bontragers TLR I have I installed a valve and hit it with the floor pump and was golden. Thanks

  35. #485
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    Re: WTB Frequency i23 AM wheelset: alternative to Flow rims

    Quote Originally Posted by Jolly705 View Post
    I am not sure what you mean by remove the valve core. The Bontragers TLR I have I installed a valve and hit it with the floor pump and was golden. Thanks
    Removing the little dodad that you loosen on presta valves to inflate or deflate said tire. It increases the air volume you can push into the tire making the tire seat with a floor pump... Sometimes.
    Here is the thing about equality, everyone's equal when they're dead. - Gavroche, Les Misérables

  36. #486
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigkat273 View Post
    Removing the little dodad that you loosen on presta valves to inflate or deflate said tire. It increases the air volume you can push into the tire making the tire seat with a floor pump... Sometimes.
    Copy, thank!

  37. #487
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    So do you know what features the Bonty TLR tire has over the standard Team? I'm considering going I23 with 2.35 Bontrager XR4 Teams w Stans. Anyone make something like this work?

  38. #488
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    I did the i25 with the bonty XR4 w/stans. They are outstanding tires. You will not regret it. I believe the team are the top tier tire and they are TLR. You could check the bonty website for full specs.

  39. #489
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    Cool thanks. I love the tires I already have em but on I9 wheels with the original Flows. The rear is a little messed up but still rides great. I want to try the i25 for its width for a better footprint and stronger at the same weight. I know when I bought the Teams there were teams and Team TLR's and that the TLR's had a thicker sidewall. I guess I'll go for it. I did have the tire blow off a Flow rim when only using tape and not the stans rim strip. So, maybe I'll use strips if I have to but it seems like the WTB rims are better at inflation by pump so maybe that translates into not blowing off???

  40. #490
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    Quote Originally Posted by worrptangl View Post
    My purgatory mounted up with a floor pump just remember to remove the valve core.
    Hans Dampf mounted with a small pump, with core in place. Did hold air without sealant, before I added some new Caffelatex. Extra solid. Never back to non-UST/Stan's..

  41. #491
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    Kinda up in the air on getting a new wheelset with I23/i25 rims. My concern is being able to use 650b Schwalbe tires - have a variety of RaRas, RoRos and NoNis. It seems that some here have been sucessful using tubeless ready Schwalbe tires on the UST spec'd WTB rims. Just need a little more confirmation from users here before I pull the trigger.
    Amolan

  42. #492
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    I've had extraordinarily good results with the i23s and the Schwalbe "TLR" tires (Hans Dampf and Nobby Nick). With those combos I could run low pressures without burping....so low that the side walls became uncomfortably wishy washy, the tire would fold over if you put too much side load on it, and the tire was no longer protecting the rim.

  43. #493
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    Quote Originally Posted by ranier View Post
    Kinda up in the air on getting a new wheelset with I23/i25 rims. My concern is being able to use 650b Schwalbe tires - have a variety of RaRas, RoRos and NoNis. It seems that some here have been sucessful using tubeless ready Schwalbe tires on the UST spec'd WTB rims. Just need a little more confirmation from users here before I pull the trigger.
    Works great for me. Stupid easy inflation, mounts and dismounts with minimal fuss, sealed up well, holds up well. HD, and NN, and recent RaRa. Used standard Stan's strip, which maybe a tad narrow (I think it is 25mm), but so far so good.

  44. #494
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    Quote Originally Posted by ranier View Post
    Kinda up in the air on getting a new wheelset with I23/i25 rims. My concern is being able to use 650b Schwalbe tires - have a variety of RaRas, RoRos and NoNis. It seems that some here have been sucessful using tubeless ready Schwalbe tires on the UST spec'd WTB rims. Just need a little more confirmation from users here before I pull the trigger.
    I've run the Schwalbe tire on the I23. Only the Hans Damph seated without a compressor first time. The others were fine with a compressor.

    The only tires I struggled with of the tires I've used, (Conti Protection, Schwable SS, Spec 2Bliss) were the 2.2 Conti Prot. They needed to be shaped first with a tube. I just stuck them in an old rim with a tube for an hr and they were ready to go.
    Lead by my Lefty............... right down the trail, no brakes.

  45. #495
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    Other rims to throw into the equation are the "new" DT Swiss XM401 and EX471. They seem to be competition for Arch EX, i23 and Flow EX, i25 respectively.

    One weird thing is that they will only be offered in 28H... Works great for me as I have some DT350 straight pull hubs that want to relace... But won't work for most that have 32H hubs.

    DT Swiss - Components

    Hope to read some reviews soon. I believe they are the same rims used for the spline 1 wheels. They have some good reviews.

  46. #496
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    Hmmm, interesting. "ERD inkl. PHR washer". PHR stands for Pro Head Reinforcement which looks like it's intended to combine WTB's directional drilling with stress distribution around spoke holes similar to that of eyeleted rims.

  47. #497
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    Quote Originally Posted by ranier View Post
    Kinda up in the air on getting a new wheelset with I23/i25 rims. My concern is being able to use 650b Schwalbe tires - have a variety of RaRas, RoRos and NoNis. It seems that some here have been sucessful using tubeless ready Schwalbe tires on the UST spec'd WTB rims. Just need a little more confirmation from users here before I pull the trigger.

    I mounted a 2.35 NN on my speed disc and frequency i23 rims with a floor pump in a matter of a few pumps. Stupid easy and the bead set easy like others have said.

  48. #498
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    You are lucky, I can't get my i23's to seat at all with specialized 2bliss

    Quote Originally Posted by worrptangl View Post
    I mounted a 2.35 NN on my speed disc and frequency i23 rims with a floor pump in a matter of a few pumps. Stupid easy and the bead set easy like others have said.

  49. #499
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jolly705 View Post
    You are lucky, I can't get my i23's to seat at all with specialized 2bliss
    I even have a purgatory control on the rear, mounted on both, that was just as easy. Just remember to remove the valve cores when you air them up.

  50. #500
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jolly705 View Post
    You are lucky, I can't get my i23's to seat at all with specialized 2bliss
    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WyF29qi...%3DWyF29qi82Ws

    If you follow this video, the guy shows how to get the tire into the bead groove BEFORE attempting to air up. I have Specialized Fast Trak Control 2.2s ony i23s and they wouldn't inflate until I seated the beads. Once you do that, you won't even need to remove the valve core. Inflate without sealant, get the tires all evenly seated, deflate, open a small opening to funnel in however much sealant you want, re inflate. It's pretty darn easy once you seat the bead.

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