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  1. #1
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    Why do my wheels always veer to the left?

    Brand new wheel from BWW, i installed it and it was more or less perfect, two days later (no ride time on it, i haven't even sat on the bike yet as i am still building the bike) and it ends up like this??!

    Photobucket

    i have verified that it's not just the tire, it's the rim... i also had this problem on my rockhopper and this one is a 20mm T/A!

    wheels don't just go out of dish... BUT THEY ARE!!!

    what the hell is going on? i had noticed that every so often i would hear a small "ting" from the spokes (not any more)
    rim is true but it looks out of dish
    Last edited by AlexJK; 10-05-2009 at 03:28 PM.

  2. #2
    Walmart Bike Member
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    hows it spin?
    Quote Originally Posted by Juggler2
    There is only one Bike Forum standard... quality is directly proportional to money spent.

  3. #3
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    very well, nice and smooth.

    rim runs true too

  4. #4
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    have you checked the wheel with a dish stick/dish 'gauge'?

  5. #5
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    not yet, i don't have one. is there a way to do it without? i think there is but i can't remember how.

  6. #6
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    you would need to manufacture a tool that worked in the same way. Take it to a lbs, they will have one.

  7. #7
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    darn... ANOTHER trip to the LBS

    on top of that i need to rebuild my fork... ahh well sh*t happens i guess.

    why would this happen though? i mean it just happened by itself

  8. #8
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    Take the wheel off the fork and reinstall it backwards. If the small gap is now on the other side, the wheel is out of dish. Otherwise it's a fork issue.

  9. #9
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    ok, so i did that and i guess it's out of dish cause the gap is on the other side!

    weird weird weird... thanks for the tip!

  10. #10
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    When the wheel was built, all the spokes were twisted up. The "TING" you were hearing was the spokes loosing that twist. When they go to a relaxed state - no twist from tip to tip - they "TING". The rim needs to be re-dished and might need re-trued/re-tensioned after your first couple of rides.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by frdfandc
    might need re-trued/re-tensioned after your first couple of rides.

    That is bogus. If you need to re-true the wheels after the first ride, then you need to find a real wheel builder. They should be stress relieved after truing, and then re trued, then stress relieved, etc. etc. until they hold. If your builder is sending you out the door without ensuring the wheels will hold true, then he is doing it half assed. There is no difference between stress relieving the wheel in the shop, or on the ground, the same forces are at play.

    I would be severely pissed if I had a wheel trued, only to see it out of true after a few rides.

    I have a cheap set of wheels (RM18) which were worthless when I bought them, and after truing them properly, they have many miles of tandem riding, and some serious rock garden romps, and I gave them a glance today, and they are the same as the day I trued them. The same is true of all my rims. They stay round and true, without any touch ups. The only time you should ever have to re true, is in the event of actual impact damage.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by VintageFolly
    That is bogus. If you need to re-true the wheels after the first ride, then you need to find a real wheel builder. They should be stress relieved after truing, and then re trued, then stress relieved, etc. etc. until they hold. If your builder is sending you out the door without ensuring the wheels will hold true, then he is doing it half assed. There is no difference between stress relieving the wheel in the shop, or on the ground, the same forces are at play.

    I would be severely pissed if I had a wheel trued, only to see it out of true after a few rides.

    I have a cheap set of wheels (RM18) which were worthless when I bought them, and after truing them properly, they have many miles of tandem riding, and some serious rock garden romps, and I gave them a glance today, and they are the same as the day I trued them. The same is true of all my rims. They stay round and true, without any touch ups. The only time you should ever have to re true, is in the event of actual impact damage.
    So, you bought wheels and re-trued them after you hadn't ever ridden them, and ON A TANDEM they are still true? I call either bull OR you are only road-riding. Also, your tandem wheels likely have exceptionally thick spokes very much reducing the amount of "twist" they exhibit. Any wheelbuild worth beans will need re-truing after a short while ... even if it's only a slight tweak.

    Edit: ORRR you are just lucky; a wheel remaining true for the extent of it's life is quite unlikely.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by ettore
    Any wheelbuild worth beans will need re-truing after a short while ... even if it's only a slight tweak.
    How does a crappy job of stress relieving make a wheel 'worth beans'?
    You're wrong on this, and I won't be the last experienced builder to tell you that.
    Last edited by meltingfeather; 10-05-2009 at 09:00 AM.

  14. #14
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    Sounds like you got a very poor build, from missing the dish by a mile to inadequate stress relief (pinging), call BWW and get it sorted out.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by meltingfeather
    ...I won't be the first experienced builder to tell you that.
    Properly built wheels from the get-go don't need re-truing.
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by ettore
    So, you bought wheels and re-trued them after you hadn't ever ridden them, and ON A TANDEM they are still true? I call either bull OR you are only road-riding. Also, your tandem wheels likely have exceptionally thick spokes very much reducing the amount of "twist" they exhibit. Any wheelbuild worth beans will need re-truing after a short while ... even if it's only a slight tweak.

    Edit: ORRR you are just lucky; a wheel remaining true for the extent of it's life is quite unlikely.
    No, I bought a Tandem, and Yes, I made the "unlikely" assumption that a soft machine built wheel which came on it, should need some attention, so I backed the nipples off, treated the threads, and rebuilt the wheel. I also took the brand new hubs apart and cleaned and packed the bearings and re-assembled, something I do on every wheel I buy, unless it has cartridge bearings. You never know.

    Different strokes, I suppose.

    I didn't mean to say I did hardcore riding on the tandem with the wheelset, just that I had used the wheelset for hardcore riding on other bikes. It doesn't get hucked, maybe 2 feet at most, but it gets beat on constantly on Colorado front range rides. I've been looking, and i haven't found a smooth trail here yet.

    The bottom line, is that I check them before and after each ride, and I have not put a spoke wrench on them since I built them. I'm sure I will have to at some point, but that is going to be the result of impact induced damage, not faulty build. Nothing particularly special about the wheels, 36 spoke, 3 cross with 2.0 spokes, put together poorly the first time, and as close as I could get to perfect the second time.

    A proper build should include stress relieving the spokes, and re checking, etc, etc, till it holds it's true. If that is done, exactly what forces are you experiencing which requires it to be re-trued in a short while?
    Last edited by VintageFolly; 10-05-2009 at 10:44 AM.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by highdelll
    Properly built wheels from the get-go don't need re-truing.
    If you don't ride them...

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by fixbikeguy
    If you don't ride them...
    I ride mine
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by meltingfeather
    Sounds like you got a very poor build, from missing the dish by a mile to inadequate stress relief (pinging), call BWW and get it sorted out.
    uuh! how is their customer service with stuff like this? i don't/can't really wait for too much longer

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexJK
    uuh! how is their customer service with stuff like this? i don't/can't really wait for too much longer
    Please contact us at your earliest convenience.

    info@bicyclewheelwarehouse.com
    800-979-0028
    714-754-1716

    Thanks

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by CFoster
    Please contact us at your earliest convenience.

    info@bicyclewheelwarehouse.com
    800-979-0028
    714-754-1716

    Thanks

    holy **** thats good customer service!! i'll call right now! which number?

  22. #22
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    +1 for BWW customer service!! taking care of me the right way!
    THANKS!

  23. #23
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    Seriously just to reply to the fact that the OP heard pinging from his new wheels is just wrong properly built and de-tensioned wheels DON'T ping/pop and don't need to be re-tensioned after some intial use. Really would have expected more from BWW FYI, never heard a pop nor ping from my wheels that were hand built by Larry Mettler of Mtn. High Cyclery AND neither has the guy who I built a wheel for heard any such pops or pings and his wheel is still true and I don't have a whole lot of experience building wheels.
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  24. #24
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    I must have missed the part that the wheels were built by BWW. I've heard nothing but good things about their wheels. I assumed he was talking about an OTS wheel set - machine built - that the majority of bikes come off the floor with. My mistake.

    So I'll modify my statement somewhat.

    A good handbuilt wheelset should not have any problems. Maybe a small amount of re-truing, but nothing like I mentioned above.

    My custom wheel set on my road bike needed nothing - as I built them, and my Easton XC Ones did not require any truing either, until I had the rear of the bike wash out on a steep dip.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by meltingfeather
    How does a crappy job of stress relieving make a wheel 'worth beans'?
    You're wrong on this, and I won't be the last experienced builder to tell you that.
    Experienced? I wouldn't doubt you are ... probably to the same level I am an "experienced" shingler because I have done it for 10-15 friends. Skilled, that you are likely not ... especially since you can't grasp the fact that a wheel staying true is due to a lot of factors, mainly that you randomly chose x number of identical spokes that happened to luckily be very close to each other in physical properties (which, by the way, is a lot more likely with thick cheap spokes that are needlessly strong).

    I have had machine built wheels stay true through an unrealistic amount of beatings (stock Enduro wheels, XT rear, shimano stout front, whatever thick spokes, and x117 rims) ... I assume the machine making them didn't have much "finesse" or "skill" ... but true they stayed after exposing them to WAY worse conditions than they were designed for. My stock Superlight wheels stayed perfectly true as well, again .. machine built ... with a lot of VERY uneven tensions as well to boot ... pinging and popping for hours of riding. However, on the other end, I have had many wheels go out of true (both built by me, a machine, and a "professional") ... stress relief doesn't exactly come into play unless you're going to throw each spoke into a tensile strength testing machine and pre-stress them ALL to JUST near the point of passing their elastic point ... then grouping probably 3-400 spokes together to find 32 (or 28 or 36 or whatever) that are absolutely identical ... THEN, maybe you could reasonably guarantee a wheel will stay true. In my "materials" class, they ripped apart a bunch of spokes for a 1st year project (DT Revolutions IIRC) and the variance between the spokes was quite large, sometimes 35% (in both elongation and the point where they stopped elastically stretching).

    If you somehow magically had wheels that stayed true, that's great. But don't pat yourself on the back for being the best wheelmaker on earth, because everyone ELSE who actually rides their bike knows that it's still a crapshoot with "hand built" wheels ... it's just LESS of a crapshoot.

    Edit: Pops and pings are not normal, this I will agree on. Also, incorrect dish is unacceptable ... maybe the wheel they built BEFORE yours needed to be "non-standard" dish and they just forgot to put the stand back to the "normal" setting.
    Last edited by ettore; 10-05-2009 at 08:52 PM.

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