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  1. #1
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    Trailstar or Pacestar - Schwalbe Hans Dampf tires

    I ride a Cannondale SL4 26" with lots of upgrades, I weight 170 and I'm 5'9".
    I'm looking at using Schwalbe Hans Dampf tires on my next wheel set.


    Question:
    I am trying to discuss the three different versions of the Schwalbe Hans Dampf tires.
    Trailstar or Pacestar or VertStar
    Any feedback on which Hans Dampf compound combination preforms best in the conditions I will be riding?

    -
    Essentially, I wanted to confirm if owners agree with the statements from the mfg.
    The MFG actually says the HD Trailstar is meant to preform best in mud and that the Pacestar is better suited for rocks.
    -


    Trailstar / Pacestar Details from the MFG Website

    Pacestar is advertized as bit stiffer and lasts longer and is more for XC use on hard-pack.
    Trailstar is advertized as a softer grippier version which is better in muddy or loose terrain.
    VertStar is designed to be softer still for extreme downhill use with low psi.

    I am almsot leaning toward the Trailstar because it has more grip, seems I can never have too much lol.
    But, I think my area of riding is usually more dry and hard which fits the Pacestar descriptions
    I also like the increased durability and potential rolling speed on the Pacestar.


    Background:
    I currently love the Specialized Ground Control tires I have on my old wheel set.
    These tires preform exactly how I need and I went through a few other tires to find these.
    But...
    The reason I'm looking to switch is for the snakeskin sidewall.
    The tread patterns and design the Hans Dampf looks similar enough to the Ground Control
    that I figured they would ride similarly but probably with more grip from the softer rubber.


    Riding:
    I live in San Antonio and also ride other Texas locations.
    Unforgiving loose rocks and hard drops on DH and lots of loose dry dirt in tight turns without berms to rely on for grip and lots of chunky climbs uphill too.
    Last edited by Trail_Blazer; 08-30-2012 at 04:49 PM.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by schristie11 View Post
    The tread patterns and design the Hans Dampf looks very similar to the Ground Control, so I figured they would ride similarly.
    This is incredibly wrong. The Ground control is a fast rolling tire with fairly good drive grip, ok braking grip, and so so side grip.

    The Hans Dampf is a somewhat slow rolling tire with very good drive grip, very good braking grip, and very good side grip. Do you see the tradeoffs?

    Maybe you meant the Knobby nic, which the Ground Control is based on.

  3. #3
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    I was trying to discuss the three different versions of the Schwalbe Hans Dampf tires.
    Trailstar or Pacestar or VertStar
    Pacestar is a bit stiffer and lasts longer and is recomended to be used as an XC tire.
    Trailstar is advertized as a softer grippier version.
    VertStar is designed to be softer still for extreme downhill use with low psi.

    Can anyone share a personal experience with these tires?
    Last edited by Trail_Blazer; 08-30-2012 at 04:16 PM.

  4. #4
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    Not sure if this helps.

    I just went from spec purgatory control 2.4 to hans dampf 2.35 trail star and the difference is huge. The knobbies on the schwalbe are much softer than the purgatory ones. Compared to the nobby nic pace star I have in the rear I can't tell much of a difference in feel.

    I am in socal so riding kitty litter over hard pack mostly. Loving the new tire set up a lot.

    Can't tell yo how long they'll last you but I have a buddy with around 1000 mi on his trail star dampfs and the knobs still look great.

  5. #5
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    I had a set of Schwalbe NN's with the snakeskin sidewall and pacestar comp...the tires rocked, no other way to put it. But, I killed the rear after 100 miles. I love the tire..but, with the going rate for the tubeless as high as it is I cant justify the cost.

    I think for trails that dont have much rock it may last for a bit more than what mine lasted, but since I ride a good mix of things with/without rocks..well, I learned the hard way.

    May want to look into the ardents as I hear they do quite well in the rocky section (though I dont have any personal experience). I think after my contis wear out that'll be my next tire.

  6. #6
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    I am almsot leaning toward the Pacestar; because I my area of riding is usually more dry and hard which fits the Pacestar descriptions.
    I also like the increased durability and potential rolling speed on the Pacestar.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by schristie11 View Post
    I am almsot leaning toward the Pacestar; because I my area of riding is usually more dry and hard which fits the Pacestar descriptions.
    I also like the increased durability and potential rolling speed on the Pacestar.
    I'm running a PaceStar HD on the front of my Enduro. It has exceed my expectations in grip, toughness & rolling speed. It is a bit heavy at 820g tho.

    I'm in California & have ridden it only in the dry. I got a few minor slips on some dusty hardpack at speed (normal this time of year), but I think it was mostly my technique. When the terrain got bigger the tire stepped it up. 4 days in Downieville (which pinches & cuts tubeless tires) and grip & durability were stellar.

    I have local trails that are hardpack with jumps & drops, then some occasional Sierra trails that are dry & loose & big chunk. The HD does them all very well - a rarity. I have found my new front tire for the AM bike.

    I'm sure the TrailStar version has more grip, but I'll do 20-30 miles on my Enduro in addition to some light FR, so I prefer the good rolling version.

    P

  8. #8
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    I run the pacestar on the rear and trailstar on the front. I can say that I prefer the trailstar compound all around as opposed to the pacestar in the rear. The pacestar does not wear any better than the trailstar, but gives up some of it's grip capabilities.

    If I were to buy again, I'd buy 2x trailstars and run them front/rear and never look back. I've yet to find a better front tire, period. In the rear it's a little slow, but damn does it make up for that with epic amounts of drive grip. It's very very well mannered.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by golfduke View Post
    I run the pacestar on the rear and trailstar on the front. I can say that I prefer the trailstar compound all around as opposed to the pacestar in the rear. The pacestar does not wear any better than the trailstar, but gives up some of it's grip capabilities.

    If I were to buy again, I'd buy 2x trailstars and run them front/rear and never look back. I've yet to find a better front tire, period. In the rear it's a little slow, but damn does it make up for that with epic amounts of drive grip. It's very very well mannered.
    I run the same setup, and have run your alternative setup (trailstar f/r). I wound up killing the trailstar HD in about 6-8 rides. Tore about 1/3 of the side knobs off. I ride in the east, so lots of loam, mud, dirt, and granite. I called Schwalbe to ask if this was normal. The answer was yes it's normal for the trailstar compound if you ride hard. I guess I like to corner hard (like really lean the bike into turns and load the side knobs). He recommended I try the pacestar. I have it on the front right now, and it's doing much better than the trailstar.

    My recommendation to the OP is: if you ride hard, consider something else. Specialized's Butcher and Purgatory (in Armadillo or GRID casings) seems like a winning setup in sharp, rocky terrain for people who ride hard (but not FR). If you ride moderately aggressively, based on your terrain, get the HD in Pacestar. All those rocks willl eat up the trailstar compound. If you are after a Super-D or Enduro race-day tire, get the HD in Trailstar for best performance.

    My experience is that the trailstar compound is too grippy on sharp coarse rocks and falls apart too quickly.
    continuous growth is the strategy of a cancer cell.

  10. #10
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    Just to clarify, you were wearing out the trailstar that fast on the rear, right?

    My pacestar on the rear has lasted me about 250 miles, although it is starting to chuck out the same way you describe. It's wierd- the knobs don't wear, but rather they like desintegrate or dissolve. I've never seen anything like it. My trailstar front however, looks damn good still, hence why I was thinking of switching.

    Thanks for the heads up though. It's definitely changed my mind.

  11. #11
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    I find the Pacestar on the HD great. I have also run Ro Ro and No Ni in Pacestar. The HD tread is smaller than the No Ni so flexs and grips more than the No Ni. The tread flex is somewhere in between the Ro Ro and No Ni and much more than the big block Big Betty in the soft gooey gluey compound. IMHO the big block tread of the No Ni would be better in trail star which it is now available in the 2.4" size.

    On the front, the HD in Pacestar feels as fast as the No Ni. Much much faster than the BB GG .

    When you have the 2012 Ro Ro 2.4 and HD 2.4 side by side there is only subtle diference in block size and spacing. In Pacestar the tread blocks feel similar in flex. The Ro Ro is slightly more open and has slightly less , and more squirmy tread on the edges. Something to consider if you don't run rocky terrain and don't have hard fast terrain.
    Last edited by gvs_nz; 08-30-2012 at 03:39 PM.

  12. #12
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    i switched from a 2.3 butcher front/2.2 purgatory rear on my enduro to the Trailstar HD F/R. knobs were tearing off and the braking edge was destroyed on the rear in less than 3 months. even at employee pricing they are too pricey to be replacing that often. other than the wear the HD had awesome climbing grip, did not feel slow at all, weight was great for all benefits at 760g. The HD up front has been awesome and i will not be running anything else for a long time! i have since switched back to a purgatory 2.2 in the rear and gave up a little traction and climbing grip. btw i am in so cal.
    Juice

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by schristie11 View Post
    I was trying to discuss the three different versions of the Schwalbe Hans Dampf tires.
    Tailstar or Pacestar or VertStar
    Pacestar is a bit stiffer and lasts longer and is recomended to be used as an XC tire.
    Tailstar is advertized as a softer grippier version.
    VertStar is designed to be softer still for extreme downhill use with low psi.

    Can anyone share a personal experience with these tires?
    I think Tailstar is the porno version
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy View Post
    I think Tailstar is the porno version
    niiiiiice!!!


  15. #15
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    All of this talk about HD wearing out fast and knobs coming off or disintegrating has me wondering if I should keep my Ground Control tires!
    They seem bulletproof in terms of normal wear and have excellent grip.
    Their super thin sidewalls worry me though, I'd hate to be walking a long way from a back-country ride.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by schristie11 View Post
    All of this talk about HD wearing out fast and knobs coming off or disintegrating has me wondering if I should keep my Ground Control tires!
    They seem bulletproof in terms of normal wear and have excellent grip.
    Their super thin sidewalls worry me though, I'd hate to be walking a long way from a back-country ride.
    The HD has the Snakeskin casing. Thin but hardly super thin or fragile. To be tougher it would have to be a downhill type casing.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy View Post
    The HD has the Snakeskin casing. Thin but hardly super thin or fragile. To be tougher it would have to be a downhill type casing.
    Right, it's the snake skin sidewall that are influencing my choice for the Schwable tires.
    The HD seem to be the tire I want, but I am just trying to disseminate if the Trailstar or Pacestar sub model is best for me.

    I read in a lot of other threads that people say:
    The natural wear pastern of the HD Trailstar is to loose knobs and they do not wear down slowly like other tires.
    The HD Trailstar wear out pretty quick on rough rocky terrain.

    -
    Essentially, I wanted to confirm if owners agree with the statements from the mfg.
    The MFG actually says the HD Trailstar is meant to perform best in mud and that the Pacestar is better suited for rocks.
    -
    Last edited by Trail_Blazer; 09-04-2012 at 02:49 PM.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by schristie11 View Post
    Right, it's the snake skin sidewall that are influencing my choice for the Schwable tires.
    The HD seem to be the tire I want, but I am just trying to disseminate if the Trailstar or Pacestar sub model is best for me.

    I read in a lot of other threads that people say:
    The natural wear pastern of the HD Trailstar is to loose knobs and they do not wear down slowly like other tires.
    The HD Trailstar wear out pretty quick on rough rocky terrain.

    -
    Essentially, I wanted to confirm if owners agree with the statements from the mfg.
    The MFG actually says the HD Trailstar is meant to preform best in mud and that the Pacestar is better suited for rocks.
    -
    If you are really concerned about the tread life, get the Performance version of the HD. Tough single compound rubber. Not as grippy as the triple compound tires but not a big issue in dry conditions. Heck of a lot cheaper, too.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy View Post
    If you are really concerned about the tread life, get the Performance version of the HD. Tough single compound rubber. Not as grippy as the triple compound tires but not a big issue in dry conditions. Heck of a lot cheaper, too.
    BINGO!




    But wait!
    The website doesn't show the snakeskin option on the Performance model.
    Hans Dampf | Schwalbe North America

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by schristie11 View Post
    BINGO!




    But wait!
    The website doesn't show the snakeskin option on the Performance model.
    Hans Dampf | Schwalbe North America
    No, but when was the last time you cut a sidewall? Been 15+ years for me.
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  21. #21
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    Well on the trails I ride people have them all the time.

  22. #22
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    Your Ground controls are essentially a No Ni copy. So if you want snake skin use No Ni .The bigger blocks of the No Ni will not tear as easily as the smaller flexy Hd treads[especialy Trailstar] . I pretty sure the No Ni will beat the GC in every aspect except price unless you get a pair of No Ni in from Germany. Bike24.com , Starbike amongst others.

    The black Chilli Conti MK2 protection may also be another option for you. The compound tends to be heavier but less chalky than the Schwalbe tires. Wear very well. Not as much grip as an Hd or a Ro Ro but then neither does a GC.An X king protection. is a fast rear to compliment it.

    Personally In 29" I find anything over 2.25" an over kill and far too heavy anyway. I find it hard to beat the Ro Ro 2.25 in the loose trails [pity it doesn't come in snakeskin for those in rocky conditions]. Everything else I just use a MK2/ xking 2.2 Racesport combo.
    Last edited by gvs_nz; 08-30-2012 at 07:29 PM.

  23. #23
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    Rocket Ron with snakeskin: 57-559

    Yea, it does look like my Ground Control thread pattern and size.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by schristie11 View Post
    Well on the trails I ride people have them all the time.
    But you have not?

    I have also seen riders slash tires on the same rides I am on, riding the same lines, and I do not even have scuff marks on the sidewalls.

    If you are not cutting tires now, I would not worry about it. Your riding style is good. Just carry some tire boot material and some duct tape (wrap it around a tire lever).
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  25. #25
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    I've had a trailstar Hans Dampf (first generation) for almost a year now, at first it started wearing too much for my taste in such a pricey tire, but since then the wear seems to have slowed down. I have ridden it in alpine forest humid terrain to desertic hardpack thorn full terrain. I gotta say I am completely surprised they have lasted so long ...

    As a rear tire I find them to rell better than most, except for the Big Betty (best ever rolling tire Ive used in the rear, problem with the bettys: size, they are huge and dont fit most AM bikes), and the Maxxi Minion DHR ( I have yet to try the WTB Bronson and the Conti Trail King/mountain king II in the rear). And they grip amazing.

    As a front tire you barely notice the weight.... they feel confident, although in very dry hardpack you reeaaally need to push it to grab.

    Cant compare to Speci tires, never tried them
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