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  1. #26
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    Wow thanks for the thread. I think I am convinced to drop my ridiculous pressures

    So the lowest recommended pressure on my Maxxis Crossmark tires is 35.

    I ride a heavy 32lb fs bike, weigh 200+ with gear and considering that I just got back into mtb after 10+ years of sitting on my arse, I ride like like a loose sack of bricks.

    So I'll try 35 on my 26er.

  2. #27
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    MN, Sounds like you...

    need to keep it just where you are. Everything is a compromise when it comes to tire pressure and what works for you. From the description of your riding style I wouldn't recommend tubeless unless you went full UST tires and wheels, and went with bigger tire, a true 2.35 or 2.4 and possibly DH casings. Tubeless isn't for everyone, there are allot of DH racers out there that won't run tubeless for some very valid reasons. Sounds like with the tires you're using, the terrain you ride on, and the way you ride, you've already found what works best for you. The only way you're likely to be able to go lower is changing equipment a bit. A larger volume heavier duty (read heavier as well) tire would likely let you run a bit lower and avoid rim damage and pinch flats. But if that isn't an option then your stuck. It sounds to me like your in that gray area where going with heavier duty equipment would hinder the rest of the ride, but would be appropriate when the trail points down. You're not flatting every ride, just occasionally. There are some options, but it doesn't sound like you really need or want them. It's one of those things, when your peggin' the fun meter there are times when you are going to exceed the capabilities of the equipment, in this case the tires. So your choices are, change the equipment, or try and keep the meter just off the peg.

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  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.niles
    what terrain and how you guys are riding it? shiggy, squash, trailville, lynx, kmacon, kapusta, le duke - how would you describe your riding style?
    I would agree with Squash: You've probably found what works best for you.

    As I said above, I'm on the east coast, so most riding is pretty rocky and rooty. However, not a lot of sharp racks. Also, compared to a lot of riding in NoCal (I lived in Tahoe for two years and rode a LOT) it is not as fast (lots of tight and technical, instead), and I think speed is a BIG factor. Things in general seemed more wide open out there (as with most places I've ridden out west), with more sharp rocks, and I was not able to run the kind of low pressures I do here. For riding around Tahoe I could get away with around ~27-28 front. I was not running the Big Betty up front when I lived there, so that may have let me go lower, but even with tires with less thick sidewalls (like what I ran out there) I can go down to 25 here in the front no problem.

    My riding style varies a lot, but if it is pointed downhill I try to hit it hard. That said, I think I must be a little smooth and/or slow because I seem to get less flats with lower pressure and thinner tubes than most people I know.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by kboykin
    Wow thanks for the thread. I think I am convinced to drop my ridiculous pressures

    So the lowest recommended pressure on my Maxxis Crossmark tires is 35.

    I ride a heavy 32lb fs bike, weigh 200+ with gear and considering that I just got back into mtb after 10+ years of sitting on my arse, I ride like like a loose sack of bricks.

    So I'll try 35 on my 26er.
    And maybe think about trying some burlier tires. Your description of yourself, bike, and riding style doesn't say lightweight racing tire to me. Get something fatter with a little more meat to it and have lots more fun.
    Warning: may contain sarcasm and/or crap made up in an attempt to feel important.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by trailville
    And maybe think about trying some burlier tires. Your description of yourself, bike, and riding style doesn't say lightweight racing tire to me. Get something fatter with a little more meat to it and have lots more fun.


    Didn't realize the crossmark was a lightweight racing tire, yikes! My LBS rides 'em on the same trails and recommended them to me so I got them.

    Haven't ridden them much yet, first ride out on them this week I had a small log jump up and lodge into my back wheel bending my der. hanger and the back wheel out of true. Had the pressure at 40+ just because I don't know any better But they are a LOT better than the ancient crappy tires I was riding on.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.niles
    what terrain and how you guys are riding it? shiggy, squash, trailville, lynx, kmacon, kapusta, le duke - how would you describe your riding style?
    ...

    ?????????????? what next????
    I ride smooth and "light". Started 26 years ago and never owned suspension until 1987. Riding rigid teaches you to pick good lines, be smooth and easy on equipment. Transfer that to suspension and you are even faster. I ride over or around things rather than through them. Trail rider rather than hucker: I jump over things rather than jump off them. I work the bike to keep the terrain from working me.

    My local trails are fairly smooth with some rocks, lots of roots, but I do not really change my tire pressures when I go elsewhere, like Downieville or Gooseberry Mesa. I was running 28/30 psi in 2.2" tires on a hardtail with a 80mm fork at Downieville. Was at the front of the group on the lesser-known trails and slipped to the middle when we reached the main routes (I have little local knowledge of them). No flats, no cuts, no dinged rims.

    In Utah I ride rigid, 2.2-2.5" tires, 18-26psi. In ~4 weeks (20+ rides) of riding there I had 2 pinch flats: both from slamming rock ledges while not paying attention.

    In the early '90s I was at an XC race that used fast, rocky moto trails. I passed many riders on the descents and finished in the top 10% of the field. Afterward the guys parked next to me complained "I was using 50psi and I still flatted!" (and with suspension forks). I was rigid, 2.2', 32psi front; 1.8", 36psi rear (when tires were "smaller"). No flats. Passed people because I could steer around the big rocks rather than bouncing off of/into them.

    Even on my Coiler "big hit" bike (6" travel, Marz 66 fork) the pressures are low (and the tires big) and the riding style does not really change. I may take rougher lines and ride off bigger lips but I still do not just plow in and expect the bike to suck it up. Last year I rode one of my favorite sections of trail several times, a 5 mile remote singletrack downhill filled with embedded rocks, big roots and tight lines. First on the Coiler w/2.4" tires, later on my hardtail w/100mm fork, 2.3" tires. Each time I took basically the same lines, took the same time to complete the section and had a blast. I did work harder on the HT, but I did not feel I could have safely gone any faster on either bike. A buddy (riding a fully) following me, commented that I looked like I was on a 5" fully while riding my HT. Smooth and fast.

    What next for you? Bigger tires (volume) if you want to try lower pressures. Higher volume generally means you can use lower pressures as long as the tire is still well supported. Every rider is different in what works for them. You either adapt your equipment, or adapt your riding style. If you can do both, so much the better. And remember that with suspension, the tire pressure is as important as the shock settings. Change one and you may need to change the other for best results.

    And the real bottom line: If you are fixing a flat, or crashed along the trail, you are not going very fast.
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  7. #32
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    Ah, yeah That's what they are all right. Definitely a good tyre, but even I know that they're not a tyre suited to the riding style you describe. Try something more beefy like some Schwalbe Big Betty's, WTB MutanoRaptors, Maxiss Ardents, Panaracer Rampages, Kenda Nevegals all in the 2.3-2.4" range.
    Quote Originally Posted by kboykin


    Didn't realize the crossmark was a lightweight racing tire, yikes! My LBS rides 'em on the same trails and recommended them to me so I got them.

    Haven't ridden them much yet, first ride out on them this week I had a small log jump up and lodge into my back wheel bending my der. hanger and the back wheel out of true. Had the pressure at 40+ just because I don't know any better But they are a LOT better than the ancient crappy tires I was riding on.
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  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx
    Ah, yeah That's what they are all right. Definitely a good tyre, but even I know that they're not a tyre suited to the riding style you describe. Try something more beefy like some Schwalbe Big Betty's, WTB MutanoRaptors, Maxiss Ardents, Panaracer Rampages, Kenda Nevegals all in the 2.3-2.4" range.
    Depends on which Crossmark. I have a set of 2.25 UST that are pretty beefy and are good trail tires. The standard 2.25 is not bad either.
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  9. #34
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    Good job!

    I'm thinking that this thread should become a sticky, as always Shiggy knows what he's talking about...Even now I'm experimenting with pressures and this thread has me reaching for the lower pressures.
    What I started with recently was "Eskars performing best at 28-30 PSI whether tubbeless or tubed" MBAction...

  10. #35
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    sqaush and shiggy and kapusta, thanks a bunch for the advice and good stories! lynx, i'm going to get one of those pumps to put in my pack when i go into the wilderness areas.

    i will most likely stay with my existing setup unless i can find a larger volume tire that has comparable weight, tread pattern, compound to the maxxis high rollers (which i'm having good experiences with right now).

    shiggy......."Every rider is different in what works for them. You either adapt your equipment, or adapt your riding style. If you can do both, so much the better.'.......i am always attempting to do both, with the emphasis on the later. really this all about having fun, but fun to me is riding the best i can. so i am constantly working on my technique(s). shiggy you have your riding dialed. i agree that a hardtail is a terrific platform to train on in rough terrain. today i did 3 hours of cornering and slalom drills with cones. i have fun doing that sort of thing. it's most important to me to be a good rider. because if i'm a good rider, less than perfect equipment won't matter much, and i'll still have a blast!

    once again, thank you all for the help.
    Last edited by mr.niles; 10-09-2009 at 10:48 PM.

  11. #36
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    kapusta, thanks for your insite about tahoe. it turns out that tahoe, and especially northstar bike park, are my yardsticks for bike setup and durability. if it can survive a weekend at the star, then it will live thru anything else i am likely to put it thru. also, because i have so much fun riding there, i tend to go looking for places with similar qualities for my rides. so, maybe that is the common denominator for my bike setup. i do make some equipment changes for regular trail riding, but my durability testing takes place in tahoe.

    hmmmm.....ok, now that we are talking about northstar, i forgot to mention that i do jumps and hucks on all my bikes, so everything on them has to survive that, too.

  12. #37
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    add wtb prowler xt's

    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx
    Ah, yeah That's what they are all right. Definitely a good tyre, but even I know that they're not a tyre suited to the riding style you describe. Try something more beefy like some Schwalbe Big Betty's, WTB MutanoRaptors, Maxiss Ardents, Panaracer Rampages, Kenda Nevegals all in the 2.3-2.4" range.
    i have done some serious torture testing of these and they came thru with shining colors - and excellent traction.

  13. #38
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    Ah yes, my bad, have to try and remember that not everyone is riding a 29er - yet A guy I sometimes ride with has some 26" x 2.1" LUST Crossmarks and they're definitely a beefier sidewall than the standard version, but I wouldn't put them up for the same duty/terrain I'd trow on a Rampage or Nevegal - for down ehre the Xmark tread is plenty.

    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy
    Depends on which Crossmark. I have a set of 2.25 UST that are pretty beefy and are good trail tires. The standard 2.25 is not bad either.
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  14. #39
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    Great thread! I had no idea.

    After going through everyone's views, it tells me to move to the "dark side" (lower air)! I was running 35psi front and rear on my Schwalbe Albert 2.25's. I think many of us old school riders do the same mistake. I ride cross country.

    I run a 100mm FS bike. I weigh in at 195 without gear. Now I have a Highroller 2.35 rear and Nevagal 2.5 on the front. Both are folding and tubed. Brand new tires.The experimenting should get interesting.

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  15. #40
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    Cool Thread

    There was a thread in here a year or two ago which detailed a study of rolling resistance for mountain bike tires. The basic conclusion was that high pressure worked well on pavement ONLY. Lower pressure created less rolling resistance on rugged terrain. They even had resistance measures for long grass. It was a very scientific undertaking, and got me to run as low as possible.

    28 front and back, 175 lbs. Prophet with 150 in the rear shock. Learned on a hardtail, still use that stuff.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lugi
    I was curious to know what tire pressure is the best for all around xc use?
    I had IRC Mythos on my K2 and ran them very high because someone told me that I would get pinch flats left and right if I didn't.
    I now have Kenda Nevegals on my Cannondale Rush and was curious where people tend to have their pressure set. I normally ride pretty rocky/root filled technical terrain, with a little mud thrown in once in a while and some nice long downhills.
    Any suggestions would be great. Thanks
    A lot depends on the shape of the rocks.

    In Idaho I pinch-flatted once or twice in about 20 years of riding with 25 psi front and 30 in the back.

    Here in Arizona I've pinch-flatted as high as 38 PSI on a true 2.25 tire when I didn't notice a small square-edged rock in time and slammed into it. 36 PSI in the rear is pretty much a guaranteed pinch flat for me unless running ghetto tubeless or true tubeless.

    I've even pinch-flatted my front road bike tire at 100 PSI on a small rock, because that rock was crushed gravel and had a sharp edge. (That's what we use instead of grass around here -- we save our water for the golfers ).
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  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by hikerdave
    ...I've even pinch-flatted my front road bike tire at 100 PSI on a small rock, because that rock was crushed gravel and had a sharp edge. (That's what we use instead of grass around here -- we save our water for the golfers ).
    And the volume of the tire. The piece of gravel on pavement is also much more likely to cause damage than if it is on hardpan dirt.
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  18. #43
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    a rookie's q:
    what is pinch flat? how to determine it? i just heard about the jargon..
    TIA

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by nbayu
    a rookie's q:
    what is pinch flat? how to determine it? i just heard about the jargon..
    TIA
    Pinch flat
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  20. #45
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    As high as possible, without losing traction in the corners..

    Quote Originally Posted by Lugi
    I was curious to know what tire pressure is the best for all around xc use?
    As high as possible, without losing traction in the corners..

    that would be 28 to 31 psi.

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy
    Depends on which Crossmark. I have a set of 2.25 UST that are pretty beefy and are good trail tires. The standard 2.25 is not bad either.
    Hmm thanks for the input. Not sure which one I have. They are 2.25, the lesser TPI (60?) and the harder compound.

    They seem flimsy to me by touch, but I'm used to cheap old tires so I figured it was not something to judge them by.

    I'll just ride them until they destruct. Trails I ride are rocky and rooty single track. Frequently ding my rim and scrape the side of my tires on large rocks and small stumps.

  22. #47
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    If you had the LUST version, trust me you'd know it They have a huge a$$ LUST logo on the side in yellow if I remember right, so no mistaking them with the normal ones - you have the normal casing version.

    Quote Originally Posted by kboykin
    Hmm thanks for the input. Not sure which one I have. They are 2.25, the lesser TPI (60?) and the harder compound.

    They seem flimsy to me by touch, but I'm used to cheap old tires so I figured it was not something to judge them by.

    I'll just ride them until they destruct. Trails I ride are rocky and rooty single track. Frequently ding my rim and scrape the side of my tires on large rocks and small stumps.
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  23. #48
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    I had forgotten how cool low tire pressure works ,but on a solo wet ride rescently, i let some air out of my tires (not very scientificly)but they worked awesome for a couple of hours , then i got a little carried away on a downhill section and pinch flatted. A pinch flat is a puncture that is on the inside area of the tube, it is not caused by something piercing through the tire ,it's the tube being smashed between your rim and a rock,a snake bite(common expression)is a type of pinch flat that happens with both sides of the rim,you'll have two punctures that always seperated by the width of the rim,the holes tend to look like little slits too not a round shaped pucture that a thorn or nail would make. If you run tubeless at good pressures for wet slimmy conditions you may get burping,when the tires flex to their limit and release a bit of air for a second,you should stop and refill the air as soon as you can , a couple of burps and your tire bead could come totally loose.

  24. #49
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    Awesome! Just the thread I was looking for. On Friday I ran 40/40 on my first ride on my new rig, (see below). The climbing was great but the downhill....there was this moment. While coming around a left turn at around 25 mph I hit a rock. The front end was propelled about a foot to the right. The bike hooked up immediately but it was still a "moment" and most likely increased my average hr. Sooo, lower presure for the front it is! I'm gping to lower both tires now thanks to this thread.
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  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by herbn
    I had forgotten how cool low tire pressure works ,but on a solo wet ride rescently, i let some air out of my tires (not very scientificly)but they worked awesome for a couple of hours , then i got a little carried away on a downhill section and pinch flatted. A pinch flat is a puncture that is on the inside area of the tube, it is not caused by something piercing through the tire ,it's the tube being smashed between your rim and a rock,a snake bite(common expression)is a type of pinch flat that happens with both sides of the rim,you'll have two punctures that always seperated by the width of the rim,the holes tend to look like little slits too not a round shaped pucture that a thorn or nail would make. If you run tubeless at good pressures for wet slimmy conditions you may get burping,when the tires flex to their limit and release a bit of air for a second,you should stop and refill the air as soon as you can , a couple of burps and your tire bead could come totally loose.
    Snake bite and pinch flat are basically the same thing. A pinch flat is as you describe, but the tube is folded when it gets pinched, so often (but not always) this results in two holes on the same side, of the tube, thus the "snake bite". When it happens on both sides of the rim, that is just two pinch flats (and possibly two snake bites).

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