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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by ja001son View Post
    WEll, I might mess with it again, eventually.

    Since one of the strips failed I cant do both tires anyway, ill probably wait till I need new tires and get some UST tires and another strip and try it again..


    I dont really have flats often, I was more interested in it in terms of eight savings, but it really doesn't seem like there is any
    Don't discount the "ghetto" set up. I have used Gorilla tape with Stan's valves on two different set ups and have had zero problems. Stems are $16 (for two) and tape is $2.50. A compressor makes the job about 20 min per wheel from start to finish. I dropped about 8/10ths of a pound total by dropping stock tires and going with Specialized 2Bliss.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheepo5669 View Post
    You cant expect a converted rim to work with ease 100%. Try a stans rim and you will be surprised.
    Unfortunately, that could well be an unpleasant surprise. Stans rims are nowhere near the guaranteed fit of UST!

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by ja001son View Post
    rolled the tire around on all edges and such to circulate the sealant and get everything set. Left it with 35 PSI

    came home 4 hours later and it was flat.
    Rolling doesn't get much if any sealant to the bead, which is quite important. To really slosh the sealant to every surface on the inside, you should hold it upright and shake the bottom, turn a bit and repeat until you've gone all around. Another trick is to go ride a very bumpy trail at slow speeds.

  4. #29
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    I have ran both tubeless and tubed..

    when i tried tubeless, i did the "ghetto fab" setup and i had zero issues with sealing, and it but only cost me 5 bucks for an inner tube (20" inner tube) and i used that slime pro tubless sealant.

    I added 2 ounces per tire, as i run 26" style of rim. Gorilla tape? good lord..all i used is standard electrical tape and all i did was overlap the presta hole by 2 inches.

    The ONLY reason why i went with tubed, it was simply because it was still lighter overall. However, i might try tubeless again but use my non UST tires, as i am 100% sure those will seal with my ghetto fab setup.

    That stans rim tape along with that heavy ass tube strip, is fine, but all they did was cut a strip to length and width..which is great and easy for others that do not want to cut their own, but its actually pretty simple to do on your own and you can easily save 30 bucks by just purchasing a 5 dollar inner tube and cut it up when its sealed and seated.

    Also as what has been previously stated, you just cant shake it up and think its all said and done. What i did when i had my tire sealed, i did shake it initially, but then i would let it sit on its side laying flat for a few minutes, then i would shake it again, then flip it over and allow it to sit again. After this i would check for leaks with soapy water. I will continue this process till all leaks are gone.

    another downfall to tubeless is the sealant..its pretty pricey for what it is. However, i have heard of others using Antifreeze mixed with a bit of water (70% antifreeze, 30% water premix) but i have yet to try it and even consider.

    i might actually go back to tubeless though and use my non ust tires which are much lighter and works great with my ghetto fab ordeal.

  5. #30
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    I will say that for me at least, certain tires and maybe even brands seat much easier than others. Also rim choice. I use Roval tubeless ready rims with Specialized 2-Bliss tires, and they seat super easy. I can even use a basic floor pump. The rims come already with tape, and it was so easy I even did it.

  6. #31
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    That's because you have rims and tires with the UST bead and center channel. They just happen to lack full UST compliance, which makes the tires lighter.

    A decade from now when everyone figures this out, we will wonder why anyone struggled with tubeless.

  7. #32
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    I am not trying to be a d-bag to the OP.....but I am sure that it will be taken that way....I can understand your frustration!

    These kits work great. I have set up many different tire/rim combos for my buddies with these kits with no issues. I almost always had to use CO2 to get them to inflate (a few went with a floor pump). This is definitely an intermediate to advanced task, not for beginners. I think these kits/tubeless conversions in general are sold as being much easier to do than they really are. Just b/c you couldn't get it to work, doesn't mean the kit is junk, it means that you didn't do it correctly. For some rims, there just isn't a set way to do it..you may need tape, you may need weather stripping, you may only need the yellow tape and rim strip. For the more challenging set-ups, this can take time to do. I also think that tubeless-ready tires make this easier.

    The best tubeless set-ups IMHO are the tubeless ready rims (like Stan's) with tubeless-ready tires. No-hassle set-up in minutes and are lighter than the UST systems. Bulletproof.
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  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by trmn8er View Post
    I will say that for me at least, certain tires and maybe even brands seat much easier than others. Also rim choice. I use Roval tubeless ready rims with Specialized 2-Bliss tires, and they seat super easy. I can even use a basic floor pump. The rims come already with tape, and it was so easy I even did it.
    Yep. I have Roval wheels w/Specy tires. Awesome set-up and v. easy to do. Mount tire, add sealant, inflate with floor pump. The only trick sometimes is that you have to spread apart the portion of the tire at the valve stem to get it to take air. After having this, I would never go back to non-tubeless tires/rims!
    Geologist by trade...bicycle mechanic (former) by the grace of God!

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  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by TiGeo View Post
    I am not trying to be a d-bag to the OP.....but I am sure that it will be taken that way....I can understand your frustration!

    These kits work great. I have set up many different tire/rim combos for my buddies with these kits with no issues. I almost always had to use CO2 to get them to inflate (a few went with a floor pump). This is definitely an intermediate to advanced task, not for beginners. I think these kits/tubeless conversions in general are sold as being much easier to do than they really are. Just b/c you couldn't get it to work, doesn't mean the kit is junk, it means that you didn't do it correctly. For some rims, there just isn't a set way to do it..you may need tape, you may need weather stripping, you may only need the yellow tape and rim strip. For the more challenging set-ups, this can take time to do. I also think that tubeless-ready tires make this easier.

    The best tubeless set-ups IMHO are the tubeless ready rims (like Stan's) with tubeless-ready tires. No-hassle set-up in minutes and are lighter than the UST systems. Bulletproof.
    I don't think you sound like a d-bag. I agree with you. Some combos work better than others. I have found that a compressor is a must for making the process painless. I have not tried co2 but it seems like if it doesn't seat the first time the cost would go up depending on how many cartridges you end up using. I know that some people don't have compressors, but they are well worth the small investment. Not just for tubeless but for many other applications as well.

  10. #35
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    Hey hijacking the thread a bit rather than posting new since mine is related problem. Have new tubeless-compatible rims. Did gorilla tape, stored indoors so nice and warm with sticky adhesive, pressed hard and worked down really well. Used Stans tubeless presta valves rather than a full ghetto job. Using Tubeless ready Kenda Nevegals. Soaped up those bad boys like mad and hit it with a compressor with a max pressure limiter set to 40psi and popped the beads in place. Still some looseness so manually pulled a few spots to help the seat and got to hold air for about 30min or so and figured I was good. I took out the core and injected the Stans (3oz shaken severely first) directly in so bead should still have been good. Put core back in and swished around, spun, and generally just shook the daylights out of it, left sit on one side, then flipped and sit on the other to work Stans in best I could. Finally did the inflate and cannot for the life of me get it to hold air, still see Stans seeping from around the bead in a few spots. Bounced, spun, shook, etc some more, no joy. Driving me nuts! Something I'm missing here?!?

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColinL View Post
    skipped an important step:

    put in tubes and air to the max listed on the sidewall of the tire. let sit overnight. this forms the tire into the correct shape, rather than the janky shape it has after being folded and packaged.
    ^^^What he said. Makes a big difference. The tape job is also really important. Take your time and make sure the tape is centered.

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  12. #37
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    I bet its the tape or the valve stem.
    Geologist by trade...bicycle mechanic (former) by the grace of God!

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  13. #38
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    Yes, check the tape job. If it rides too high up the sides it may inhibit the tire bead. I have actually taken a razor and trimmed a 16th of and inch or so from each side to make sure there was plenty of room.

  14. #39
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    The tape I think went rather well. I had trimmed it so that it wasn't creeping up the wall. I think it stuck pretty well, too, or I'd suspect that I'd notice some bubbling near the spokes, which I don't. I can actually see the bubbling along the bead/rim in a few spots though. At this point noting how fragile the system appears (I can apply light hand pressure to the wheel and see it burp) it amazes me that this ever works for anyone (yet it does so somehow I'm not getting a good seat).

  15. #40
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    I'm a big believer in using 20" tubes as rim strips. (ghetto style) Probably a few grams heavier than just tape, but the bead seals awesome against the rubber liner. I successfully cut the shraeder valve out and fitted a UST valve into the hole. It sealed immediately.
    Posting on the basis that ignorance shared is ignorance doubled.

  16. #41
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    Maybe this thread might help......Whats your favorite tire sealant?
    i have more than you.
    ...because i have me and you.

    zarr

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsyGuy View Post
    The tape I think went rather well. I had trimmed it so that it wasn't creeping up the wall. I think it stuck pretty well, too, or I'd suspect that I'd notice some bubbling near the spokes, which I don't. I can actually see the bubbling along the bead/rim in a few spots though.
    If you can push the bead off the bead shelf easily, the fit is far too loose. Once popped, the bead should require serious pushing even with a deflated tire to break loose.

    Add another round of tape to the entire width of the rim to build up the diameter and it'll seal much better. When the bead seats tight enough to require soapy water and moderate pressure to pop, it can hold air even without any sealant. (Of course you'll want to add sealant, but having a tight seal to begin with makes things easier and reduces the chance of burping.)

  18. #43
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    All the tires I've set up tubeless(not all that many, but a few) I've used a floor pump. Some set up easier than others, but they all mounted up fine without needing a compressor.

    When you first start inflating the tire, cup your hand around it at the valve stem and hold the rim with your fingers, in effect,. holding the tire down to the rim. This helps prevent the air from flowing through the valve stem and then right back out under the tire bead around the stem. Once the tire starts holding its shape you can remove your hand and start pumping her up with both hands on the pump.

    Use plenty of soap suds, and make sure to do the Stan's shake and bake with the tire to get the sealant up all along the tire bead.

    If you follow the videos on Stan's site, you shouldn't have many problems.

  19. #44
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    I've not been able to seat tires with a hand pump so far. And I don't have a compressor (yet!). But, what I've done that works, is to get it set up, sealant put in and then sacrifice a CO2 tube to seat it. Then let out the CO2, since it doesn't play nice with the sealant and then pump back up with air. So far, it's worked well for me. My rims are UST but my tires aren't.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vespasianus View Post
    Man, I hope he is not trying to use a hand pump. Regardless, you should seat your tires with a tire lever first and pump them up with a floor pump. May need to make sure the tire is seated a couple of times but once you get the hang of it, should hold quickly.
    How do you seat tires with a tire lever? Once the tire's on, how does a tire lever get the beads seated?
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  20. #45
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    In what manner is the CO2 not compatible with the sealant? Does it react to dry the sealant out?

    I just went tubeless yesterday (1st ride today). Hopefully, I will not need to worry about pumping up a tire for a while, but I do use the CO2 cartridges on the trail. Of course, I will have a spare tube if I do go flat, which will probably happen as I play with the pressures.

  21. #46
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    It does something to it. Before I read a bunch of stuff about it, I was just using the CO2 but when I went to refill the sealant, I decided to break the tire off the rim to check and sure enough... lots of boogers and a clear liquid left rather than the milky looking stuff. It was still holding air, but I just figured it wasn't worth the risk, so only use the CO2 to seat if necessary but always let it out and pump back up.

    I do the same thing on the trail, if necessary. My pressure got too low the other day and the front tire rolled off. I reseated and filled with the CO2, rode home and then emptied the CO2 and refilled with air.

    It's worked well so far.
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  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by desertred View Post
    In what manner is the CO2 not compatible with the sealant? Does it react to dry the sealant out?

    I just went tubeless yesterday (1st ride today). Hopefully, I will not need to worry about pumping up a tire for a while, but I do use the CO2 cartridges on the trail. Of course, I will have a spare tube if I do go flat, which will probably happen as I play with the pressures.
    Not sure if it's a chemical reaction or the super cold nature of the CO2 that causes the coagulation, but something happens. I carry a couple CO2s as emergency only, but if I need air in a tubeless tire I use Big Airs. Big Airs are propane which is apparently inert to Stan's et.al. I also purchased a universal nozzle at my lbs that will accommodate a B/A and a threaded CO2.

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  23. #48
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    LOL..... Man this thread reminds me of the frustration level I was at when I first went tubeless. Trying to mount Geax AKA's on Flow rims required about 16 tire levers. I now have the tightest bead seal known to man however, and can easily run pressures in the teens. Would never, ever, go back to tubes based on the performance gains and weight savings of tubeless. I am however eyeing my rear Geax and know that it needs replacing soon. Can't wait to battle that bead again!

  24. #49
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    Funny stuff. I know that this stuff can be frustrating, but honestly, it isn't junk if it has worked for a gajillion people. I did a tubeless conversion for my first go round. It worked, was always a bit finicky though, and was sort of a pain to set up. Last time I went with tubeless rims and tires, and couldn't be happier. Actually, I set up my fat bike tubeless, ghetto styles, and it has worked better than any of my other tubeless ventures to date and holds its beads at 4psi. Some combos just won't work, though.

    I think that the best advice that I can give the OP is to read Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. Don't get frustrated. You know it should work. You know that it is something that you are doing wrong. Take a break. Smoke a thinking stick. Put on some Johnny Cash. Come back to it in an hour and you will have success.

  25. #50
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    Getting closer... popped the tires off (making a bit of a Stan's bukkake in the process), scrubbed down, retaped building up a bit more and put the tires back on (does everyone else have such a problem getting their tires on their rims?!? The ones in the Stans video he slips on by hand and I was wrestling with tire levers for a half hour convinced I was going to rip the tire or my rim apart... as a side note I did add the step of tubing it for a night to get the tire shaped up, which reminded me why I'm going through these growing pains since I pinch flatted two tubes with the tire lever during the wrestling match), soaped up, compressor seated. I work from home so kept them in my office space and did the Stan's Groove (shake, shake, shake, Mtb Maracas!) and then lying level all day long shaking and flipping them about every 15min. THOUGHT I had them sealed up good and then tried to bring up the air pressure this am and I started blowing air out the bead at 30psi. GRRR.... more shaking I guess... (no more pinched tubes.... no more thorn flats... no more pinched tubes... no more thorn flats...)...

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