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Thread: Stans Flow EX

  1. #1
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    Stans Flow EX

    Look what is on the Stan's No Tubes page...wider and heavier (duty).

    Flow EX Rims

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    I wonder what they really weigh? The page you link linked to says 545g and the "more details" page says 490g in the 29" variety.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WrecklessREX View Post
    I wonder what they really weigh? The page you link linked to says 545g and the "more details" page says 490g in the 29" variety.
    looks like the 490g is a typo/copied from the black 26" version - the white 26" version shows the same thing and the ERD is the same for both 26" and 29".

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    Cool. My Flows have been holding strong so far. Glad they come in all three wheel sizes AND 36h for 26".

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    My Flows are already overkill for my Trance X1 2011. But why not? 20gr more is nothing at these weights. 13% wider and lower beads can convert to what? 10% lower air pressure? I like the fact that they increased they durability factor as well as performance.

    As do-it-all rims on regular bikes they will be tough to beat because they are very good snow rims also.

  6. #6
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    All of Stan's new rims are moving towards the new BST, which makes me look elsewhere!
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    Quote Originally Posted by PissedOffCil View Post
    All of Stan's new rims are moving towards the new BST, which makes me look elsewhere!
    Why do you say that? At this point I have not paid too much attention to the new design as my Flow rims are still doing well. Why would Stan's elect to change to an inferior system? I see that the new bead hook is smaller and I wondered about it. Have there been problems with the likes of Arch EX rims?
    The trouble with having an open mind is that people will insist on trying to put things in it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronnie View Post
    Why do you say that? At this point I have not paid too much attention to the new design as my Flow rims are still doing well. Why would Stan's elect to change to an inferior system? I see that the new bead hook is smaller and I wondered about it. Have there been problems with the likes of Arch EX rims?
    The bead seat on the new BST rims is larger than on other rims which means that it doesn't work very well with most UST and tubeless ready tires. The design is meant to be used with regular tires and I'm moving more and more towards TL ready with sidewall protection tires. Therefore it doesn't fit my needs.
    Last edited by PissedOffCil; 06-05-2012 at 10:15 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PissedOffCil View Post
    All of Stan's new rims are moving towards the new BST, which makes me look elsewhere!
    Certainly does make the WTB Frequency i23 rims more appealing if you plan on using Tubeless Ready or UST tires.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PissedOffCil View Post
    The bead seat on the new BST rims is larger than on other rims on the new BST which means that it doesn't work very well with most UST and tubeless ready tires. The design is meant to be used with regualr tires and I'm moving more and more towards TL ready with sidewall protection tires. Therefore it doesn't fit my needs.
    Okay, as I said I haven't paid too much attention but if No-Tubes is concentrating on their rims fitting non-tubeless tires I would also look elsewhere. I will only use a TLR or UST tire tubeless. The problem unfortunately is that there are not too many other options.
    The trouble with having an open mind is that people will insist on trying to put things in it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronnie View Post
    Okay, as I said I haven't paid too much attention but if No-Tubes is concentrating on their rims fitting non-tubeless tires I would also look elsewhere. I will only use a TLR or UST tire tubeless. The problem unfortunately is that there are not too many other options.
    Exactly, I'm looking for a wide, strong, tubeless compatible and light rim for my XC hardtail and it's hard to find! The Velocity Blunt SL I currently run doesn't hold up to my abuse...
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    Sorry for the Typo. I have corrected the 29er rim. Below are the weights.

    Flow EX Rim weights:
    26 Black = 490g
    26 White = 510g
    650b Black = 525g due Aug 1st
    29 Black = 545g
    29 White = 565g
    Pete @ Stan's NOTUBES

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbiker72 View Post
    Certainly does make the WTB Frequency i23 rims more appealing if you plan on using Tubeless Ready or UST tires.
    Yes but the i23 is slightly out of my weight range. I'd like around 400g. A i21 would be perfect...
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    Quote Originally Posted by PissedOffCil View Post
    Yes but the i23 is slightly out of my weight range. I'd like around 400g. A i21 would be perfect...
    Well if they ever become available again...might look at the Pacenti TL28 rims then.

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    "notubes_pete", Thank you for chiming in. From your user name and signature it's clear that you are employed by Satan's Notubes. I would appreciate some input from you on the reason for the change in the BST for these newer rims. Before changing to a 29" bike I would only use UST rims with either UST or TLR tires. Because of many user reviews, two years ago I had a wheelset built with a pair of Flow rims. I have found them to work as well as UST rims when used with TLR tires. I have no interest in using non-tubeless tires.

    I would appreciate if you could confirm what the difference is with these new rims and that they are indeed designed to use non-tubeless tires. If in fact I am going to have problems mounting some of my favorite tires or TLR tires don't work as well, I would not be able to consider them for my next rim purchase.
    The trouble with having an open mind is that people will insist on trying to put things in it.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronnie View Post
    I would appreciate if you could confirm what the difference is with these new rims and that they are indeed designed to use non-tubeless tires. If in fact I am going to have problems mounting some of my favorite tires or TLR tires don't work as well, I would not be able to consider them for my next rim purchase.
    +1, my comment above was based on "gossips" read on these forums. Clarifications are welcome!
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    Quote Originally Posted by PissedOffCil View Post
    The bead seat on the new BST rims is larger than on other rims which means that it doesn't work very well with most UST and tubeless ready tires. The design is meant to be used with regular tires and I'm moving more and more towards TL ready with sidewall protection tires
    Please provide evidence for this. A test, an technical article, a logical argument, anything. I find it very hard to believe that the pioneers (and widely considered the best) of non-UST tubeless systems would introduce a new bead socket that performs worse with tubeless ready tires, at the very same time that all of the tire manufacturers are focusing more attention on producing non-UST, tubeless-ready tires. It just makes no sense at all. Sounds like BS to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronnie View Post
    I would appreciate if you could confirm what the difference is with these new rims and that they are indeed designed to use non-tubeless tires. If in fact I am going to have problems mounting some of my favorite tires or TLR tires don't work as well, I would not be able to consider them for my next rim purchase.
    The Stan's website can help:

    From the Flow EX page:
    The new Flow EX is lower, wider, and meaner, offering a lower profile sidewall and redesigned Bead Socket Technology for maximum durability and tire seal on even the most punishing of technical trails. We kept the weight low, but the new EX offers 14% thicker sidewalls for maximum dent resistance and a 33% thicker spoke bed for added pull-through strength. Increasing the outside width of the rim to 29.1mm and the interior width to 25.5mm let us reshape the bead socket for an even tighter seal and allowed our internal arch to add even more stiffness to the rim's structure. The new Flow EX: the strongest, fastest rolling, and best sealing tubeless rim available for 26-inch, 29-inch and 650b tires sizes just got even better.

    So the intent of the new bead socket is better tire sealing. Not to be "better for regular tires".

    From the Recommended Tires page:
    Compatible Tubeless Tires:
    All Tubeless tires are compatible:
    UST, LUST, UST-lite, 2Bliss, Tubeless Ready, TNT (tube no tube)

    There are also a few tires listed as "not recommended" because they are either too tight or beads are too weak.

    I think it is safe to say that the new rims are intended to be used with tubeless ready tires. As would be expected.

  19. #19
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    To add to trenchDiggr's post (from the NoTubes website: http://www.notubes.com/RecommendedTires.aspx):
    Not Recommend Tires
    WTB TCS and UST 29 inch tires are too tight for Stan's Notubes rims and NoTubes licensed rims such as Sun Ringle Black Flag.
    I can see this causing some confusion (no fault to NoTubes as it is clearly stated on the website).

    I too would like to hear about the updated bead hook.


    Found this on their website too, and it would eliminate alot of threads on this forum.
    Tech Tip - Tire pressure
    To determine a starting tire pressure when running NoTubes tires with our ZTR rim use this simple formula.
    Rider Weight in pounds divided by 7 = x
    x - 1 = Front tire pressure in PSI
    x + 2 = Rear tire pressure in PSI
    P

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    Honestly if you run 2bliss or any other flavor of tire DO NOT buy these or the arch EX. It is borderline impossible to mount tires to them. Trust me after first hand experience.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.P View Post
    Found this on their website too, and it would eliminate alot of threads on this forum.
    Tech Tip - Tire pressure
    To determine a starting tire pressure when running NoTubes tires with our ZTR rim use this simple formula.
    Rider Weight in pounds divided by 7 = x
    x - 1 = Front tire pressure in PSI
    x + 2 = Rear tire pressure in PSI
    Be careful with that tech tip. It only applies to NoTubes tires.

    I weigh 220lbs. so my front tire based on the above should be 30psi. and my rear should be 33psi. I ride my front 2.35 Nobby Nic at 24psi. and the rear 2.25 at 27psi. Above 30psi. I would be bouncing off everything.
    The trouble with having an open mind is that people will insist on trying to put things in it.

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    Honestly if you run 2bliss or any other flavor of tire DO NOT buy these or the arch EX. It is borderline impossible to mount tires to them. Trust me after first hand experience.
    I run 2bliss tires on both the original Flows and the original Arches, and it could not been easier. Add a cup of sealant, pop the tire on, and pump it up with a floor pump. The bead sets immediately, first try. Same for all 4 2bliss tires I've mounted. Piece of cake.

    You have used Arch EXs with 2bliss tires and had mounting issues? What issues? Tire was too tight to mount on the rim? Bead would not set? Bead would not seal?

  23. #23
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    The Arch EX rim is 'wider' (ie bigger diameter) than usual to create a better seal. However, this makes fitting tyres somewhat...problematic...unless you have thumbs of steel.

    Once they are on and the bead is stretched, though, refitting is simple.

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    Now granted, I'm no expert on rims and tires..............

    But, having seen the original BST design on the Stan';s site, it looked to have a more curved design to the bead hook, in order to capture and hold a tire bead that is round in shape, as they all used to be.

    From what i've seen, the new UST and TLR tires, the bead is bigger and more square, and that may be why I was having the blowoff problems with older RaRa's on an Arch rim, the rounded BST just didn't match well with the squared off tire bead.

    Also granted, the new BST on my Arch EX rims is very small, and I've only looked at it with my naked eyes, but the bead hook looks to be more squared off, more of a right angle. This would seem to work better at holding a more square-shaped bead onto the rim.

    Just my two bits.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronnie View Post
    Be careful with that tech tip. It only applies to NoTubes tires.
    It is a good starting point for all tires.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronnie View Post
    I weigh 220lbs. so my front tire based on the above should be 30psi. and my rear should be 33psi. I ride my front 2.35 Nobby Nic at 24psi. and the rear 2.25 at 27psi. Above 30psi. I would be bouncing off everything.
    As always it's a good starting point. Personal preference, riding type & terrain inform the rest (I have to go higher for landing jumps or casing fold over & crash)

    P

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    Quote Originally Posted by trenchDiggr View Post

    You have used Arch EXs with 2bliss tires and had mounting issues? What issues? Tire was too tight to mount on the rim? Bead would not set? Bead would not seal?
    It was insanely tight. So much that Im buying Maxxis tires so if i get a flat out in the bush I won't have to walk home. I haven't tried using sealent yet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by trenchDiggr View Post
    I run 2bliss tires on both the original Flows and the original Arches, and it could not been easier. Add a cup of sealant, pop the tire on, and pump it up with a floor pump. The bead sets immediately, first try. Same for all 4 2bliss tires I've mounted. Piece of cake.

    You have used Arch EXs with 2bliss tires and had mounting issues? What issues? Tire was too tight to mount on the rim? Bead would not set? Bead would not seal?
    The second generation BST (Crest, Arch EX, Flow EX) has a larger inner wall diameter than the older 355, Arch, Flow, and Sun-Ringle wheels using the BST design. This makes the tires fit tighter. With a standard folding bead tire, you can stretch the bead enough by hand to mount them. Then the tight fit makes them more secure on the rim and easier to inflate. However tires with a UST spec bead (UST, many Tubeless Ready tires) have a thicker and stronger bead that is more resistant to stretching on purpose so they do not blow off UST spec rims. They also seem to work fine on first generation BST rims (I have run both 2Bliss and TLR tires on my Sun-Ringle Chargers with the BST profile without any issues). But trying to stretch that bead on a larger than UST spec inner wall diameter is near impossible to do in a shop and getting them off out on the trail to insert a tube if your sealant fails is probably not going to happen.

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    Cool. My Flows have been holding strong so far. Glad they come in all three wheel sizes AND 36h for 26"
    It doesn't say that anywhere that I can find. According to the website, the new EX Flows come with the same spoke count as before(in 26 and 29), and that does not include a 26" x 36h.
    Last edited by happyriding; 08-26-2015 at 09:09 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TaupoRider View Post
    It was insanely tight. So much that Im buying Maxxis tires so if i get a flat out in the bush I won't have to walk home. I haven't tried using sealent yet.
    You also had a cloth rim strip mounted which increases the diameter of the bead bench. A cloth rim strip would make UST tires difficult to mount on UST rims.

    That is not to say it is not stupid tight, just that your example has issues.

    P

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.P View Post
    You also had a cloth rim strip mounted which increases the diameter of the bead bench. A cloth rim strip would make UST tires difficult to mount on UST rims.

    That is not to say it is not stupid tight, just that your example has issues.

    P
    I should have clarified that. I pulled it off after 5 minutes and used electrical tape. Still almost impossible to fit

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    Quote Originally Posted by TaupoRider View Post
    I should have clarified that. I pulled it off after 5 minutes and used electrical tape. Still almost impossible to fit
    Thanks for the clarification! That helps.

    P

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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbiker72 View Post
    The second generation BST (Crest, Arch EX, Flow EX) has a larger inner wall diameter than the older 355, Arch, Flow, and Sun-Ringle wheels using the BST design. This makes the tires fit tighter. With a standard folding bead tire, you can stretch the bead enough by hand to mount them. Then the tight fit makes them more secure on the rim and easier to inflate. However tires with a UST spec bead (UST, many Tubeless Ready tires) have a thicker and stronger bead that is more resistant to stretching on purpose so they do not blow off UST spec rims. They also seem to work fine on first generation BST rims (I have run both 2Bliss and TLR tires on my Sun-Ringle Chargers with the BST profile without any issues). But trying to stretch that bead on a larger than UST spec inner wall diameter is near impossible to do in a shop and getting them off out on the trail to insert a tube if your sealant fails is probably not going to happen.
    I guess that makes sense, let me make sure I understand. When mounting the last part of the bead on a Stan's rim, the opposite part of the tire (180 degrees opposed) that is already mounted on the rim is supposed to be in that little recessed trench in the center of the rim, right? That will give just a little more slack in last the part of the tire that you are trying to pull over the rim. You are saying that the diameter of that little trench is larger on the EX rims, so it is a tighter fit getting that last bit of bead over the edge of the rim?

    Maybe everyone already knows this, but I was shown a little trick dealing with tight fitting tires a few years ago. After you mount most of the tire on the rim, with the unmounted part at 12 o'clock, slowly work both of your hands from the 6 o'clock position up through the 3 and 9 o'clock postions, then up to 12 o'clock, stretching the tire upwards and tightly against the rim as you go. I was amazed how much easier it was to get the last part of the tire over the rim using this simple technique. For what its worth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by trenchDiggr View Post
    I guess that makes sense, let me make sure I understand. When mounting the last part of the bead on a Stan's rim, the opposite part of the tire (180 degrees opposed) that is already mounted on the rim is supposed to be in that little recessed trench in the center of the rim, right? That will give just a little more slack in last the part of the tire that you are trying to pull over the rim. You are saying that the diameter of that little trench is larger on the EX rims, so it is a tighter fit getting that last bit of bead over the edge of the rim?
    Nailed It

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    I think its your technique that is the problem, not the new rims or tires. I just got a set of the Arch EX and specialized 2bliss tires that mounted normally. Yes tight but no more than is to be expected with a new tubeless ready tire. Once on the rim they pumped up easily with a floor pump. To suggest a design flaw is a bit over the top.

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    I'm a little disappointed that no-one from NoTubes has chimed in to clear this issue up or at least explain the technical differences with these EX rims. It is obvious from a previous post that they have seen this thread. There have been comments/reports that the BSD of the new rims is larger than the previous incarnation. I have searched the NoTubes website but can not find any technical specifications.
    The trouble with having an open mind is that people will insist on trying to put things in it.

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    I have nothing but 2bliss tires and was going to try the new Flow EX. Can someone please confirm the 2bliss tire mounting issue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jonshonda View Post
    I have nothing but 2bliss tires and was going to try the new Flow EX. Can someone please confirm the 2bliss tire mounting issue.
    It is not an issue, per se. Just difficult. They will still work.

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    Its not difficult its very difficult. I would love to see someone trying to do it when their tires are wet or muddy

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    Quote Originally Posted by TaupoRider View Post
    Its not difficult its very difficult. I would love to see someone trying to do it when their tires are wet or muddy
    Seriously, once the tyre has been on the rim and the bead has stretched, it is not an issue. The initial fitting of the tyre is difficult, but subsequent removal and refitting is straight forward.

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    another confirmation: new 2bliss tires (and others) are very tight on new arch ex rim, but easier once stretched out. hard to break the bead even with the tire deflated, which is impressive. carry a lever on rides. its tight but not impossible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shalom View Post
    Seriously, once the tyre has been on the rim and the bead has stretched, it is not an issue. The initial fitting of the tyre is difficult, but subsequent removal and refitting is straight forward.
    To be fair I haven't tried to refit the tires. I must give that a go.

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    Nope Still tight as a nuns c***. Just popped on some Maxxis Ardent/Ignitor's and they went on with a single flick from a Tire Lever

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronnie View Post
    "notubes_pete", Thank you for chiming in. From your user name and signature it's clear that you are employed by Satan's Notubes. I would appreciate some input from you on the reason for the change in the BST for these newer rims. Before changing to a 29" bike I would only use UST rims with either UST or TLR tires. Because of many user reviews, two years ago I had a wheelset built with a pair of Flow rims. I have found them to work as well as UST rims when used with TLR tires. I have no interest in using non-tubeless tires.

    I would appreciate if you could confirm what the difference is with these new rims and that they are indeed designed to use non-tubeless tires. If in fact I am going to have problems mounting some of my favorite tires or TLR tires don't work as well, I would not be able to consider them for my next rim purchase.
    Hi, Yes I have worked at Stan's for a long time. This new BST is an improvement and UST tires will fit better on the new designed rim. Due to the shape of the Flow tires should mount easier then they do on the Crest or Arch EX.
    26" tires UST is not a problem. Some of the 29er tires might fit harder then others.
    Do you have the size and model of the TLR tires you are looking to fit?
    Pete @ Stan's NOTUBES

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    Quote Originally Posted by notubes_pete View Post
    Hi, Yes I have worked at Stan's for a long time. This new BST is an improvement and UST tires will fit better on the new designed rim. Due to the shape of the Flow tires should mount easier then they do on the Crest or Arch EX.
    26" tires UST is not a problem. Some of the 29er tires might fit harder then others.
    Do you have the size and model of the TLR tires you are looking to fit?
    Thanks for the reply. I only ride 29". I'm currently using a pair of Flow rims with Schwalbe Nobby Nic TLR 2.35 front and 2.25 rear. The 2.35 was quite easy to fit but the 2.25 was a little tight. It needed a plastic tire lever. Not an issue but if the new rims are harder to mount, I'd be a bit concerned. I've also used Specialized Purgatory 2Bliss 2.2. They were quite easy to fit. The problem is, who knows what tires I'd want to fit next time.

    At this point I'd only get a set of Flow EX rims for new wheels. The Flows I have have been great but I'm a little concerned as I read quite a few people saying they have problems mounting TLR tires. So are the BSD of the EX rims bigger?
    The trouble with having an open mind is that people will insist on trying to put things in it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronnie View Post
    Thanks for the reply. I only ride 29". I'm currently using a pair of Flow rims with Schwalbe Nobby Nic TLR 2.35 front and 2.25 rear. The 2.35 was quite easy to fit but the 2.25 was a little tight. It needed a plastic tire lever. Not an issue but if the new rims are harder to mount, I'd be a bit concerned. I've also used Specialized Purgatory 2Bliss 2.2. They were quite easy to fit. The problem is, who knows what tires I'd want to fit next time.

    At this point I'd only get a set of Flow EX rims for new wheels. The Flows I have have been great but I'm a little concerned as I read quite a few people saying they have problems mounting TLR tires. So are the BSD of the EX rims bigger?

    The BSD is not bigger on the Flow EX 29er rims. The hook is shorter so they tires will mount with less trouble.
    Pete @ Stan's NOTUBES

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by notubes_pete View Post
    Hi, Yes I have worked at Stan's for a long time. This new BST is an improvement and UST tires will fit better on the new designed rim. Due to the shape of the Flow tires should mount easier then they do on the Crest or Arch EX.
    26" tires UST is not a problem. Some of the 29er tires might fit harder then others.
    Do you have the size and model of the TLR tires you are looking to fit?
    How is the shape different from the Arch EX except for width?
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  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by notubes_pete View Post
    The BSD is not bigger on the Flow EX 29er rims. The hook is shorter so the tires will mount with less trouble.
    Thanks for clearing that up. I then will not hesitate getting a set of Flow EX rims.
    The trouble with having an open mind is that people will insist on trying to put things in it.

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    Stan's in the Technical Document ZTR Rim Setup Options has raised the spoke tension on Flow, ArchEX an others from 90 to 100KgF. The "33% thicker spoke bed for added pull-through strength" suggests a higher allowable tension, maybe 125.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by notubes_pete View Post
    Do you have the size and model of the TLR tires you are looking to fit?
    Specialized Butcher 2.3 Control, Eskar 2.3 Control and Purgatory Armadillo Elite 2.2. All in 26'ers with 2bliss bead of course.

    Thx.
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    Quote Originally Posted by eb1888 View Post
    Stan's in the Technical Document ZTR Rim Setup Options has raised the spoke tension on Flow, ArchEX an others from 90 to 100KgF. The "33% thicker spoke bed for added pull-through strength" suggests a higher allowable tension, maybe 125.
    Hi, We are updating the document again. The Arch EX and Flow EX can use 100-125kg of tention.
    Pete @ Stan's NOTUBES

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by notubes_pete View Post
    Hi, We are updating the document again. The Arch EX and Flow EX can use 100-125kg of tention.
    So Pete, can these 2Bliss tires fully compatible with the Flow EX rim as they work quite well with my standard Flow?

    Tires inquiring about include: Specialized Butcher 2.3 Control, Eskar 2.3 Control and Purgatory Armadillo Elite 2.2. All in 26'ers with thicker 2bliss bead of course.
    Ride On!

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    Quote Originally Posted by jgusta View Post
    So Pete, can these 2Bliss tires fully compatible with the Flow EX rim as they work quite well with my standard Flow?

    Tires inquiring about include: Specialized Butcher 2.3 Control, Eskar 2.3 Control and Purgatory Armadillo Elite 2.2. All in 26'ers with thicker 2bliss bead of course.
    So far all 26 inch tires tested fine.
    Pete @ Stan's NOTUBES

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    Are the EX rims stronger than the old ones?

  54. #54
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    I recently mounted 2.2 Purgatory 2Bliss on the 29er EX rim with no problem (the tire was previously mounted). The tire went on by hand, no tools required.


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    No idea about the ArchEX and FlowEX, but I use the Crest which has the newer BST mentioned earlier, with Mountain King 2 UST tires mounted. First time I used the Crest, I used wired, non-folding, non-UST tires and it was a PITA to mount. With the folding USTs I'm using, mounting and removing them was a breeze. They also locked quickly, and I was using a floor pump at that. I've had zero issues since mounting the tires.

    Am very pleased with the Crest that I'm planning to get FlowEXs for my new mountain bike and will mount UST tires on it, too.

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    I can buy the new Flow EX for $140 or the old Flow for $89. Is the new one worth the extra $50?
    I have Schwalbes RaRa Evo 2.1; RoRo Evo Pacestart TLR 2.25 and NoNi Evo 2.1

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stofken View Post
    I can buy the new Flow EX for $140 or the old Flow for $89. Is the new one worth the extra $50?
    I have Schwalbes RaRa Evo 2.1; RoRo Evo Pacestart TLR 2.25 and NoNi Evo 2.1
    Who ever wants to charge you $140 for the Flow EX is ripping you off. What size do you want. Regardless, both 26" and 29" are listed on the No-Tubes website at $93:

    Flow EX Rims
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    I mean for a pair of rims. i'll buy them from ActionSports.de as I'm from Belgium. In their custom wheel builder, the old flow is 70 EUR ($89) a pair and the new EX are 110 EUR ($140) a pair. The guys over at wheelbuilder.com think it's worth it.

    I am leaning towards the old Flow and use that $50 to upgrade from a DT 350 to a DT 240 hub.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stofken View Post
    I can buy the new Flow EX for $140 or the old Flow for $89. Is the new one worth the extra $50?
    I have Schwalbes RaRa Evo 2.1; RoRo Evo Pacestart TLR 2.25 and NoNi Evo 2.1
    Either rims is overkill for theses tires as they are more suited for width 2.3 and up and aggressive riding. I'd suggest Arch EX if you want to keep your tires. If you are over 220lbs then yes go with the Flows but buy bigger tires.

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    I'm 97kg (214lbs) without gear.

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    Quote Originally Posted by trek551 View Post
    Either rims is overkill for theses tires as they are more suited for width 2.3 and up and aggressive riding. I'd suggest Arch EX if you want to keep your tires. If you are over 220lbs then yes go with the Flows but buy bigger tires.
    Then you still have a choice. At your weight I'd go Arch EX for XC/marathon/trail. I'd go Flows EX for everything else, especially if you live up north and ride in snow.

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stofken View Post
    I can buy the new Flow EX for $140 or the old Flow for $89. Is the new one worth the extra $50?
    I have Schwalbes RaRa Evo 2.1; RoRo Evo Pacestart TLR 2.25 and NoNi Evo 2.1
    Only if you need the extra girth as the internal width on the EX is wide as regular DH rims, but at trail/AM weight. I ran my regular Flows for while with a couple of hops up front, but kept running for at least a few seasons with no probs, but my rear would require truing fairly often (every few months) and still wasn't strong/stiff enough for my tail (215 lbs geared that hammer the descents fairly hard). If you aren't typically hard on things (breaks stuff often as I do) and you plan to use Flows for trail to regular AM use at most, then they are definitely sufficient. If needing some more girth/stiffness out back and hard on rear wheel, go Flow Ex.

    The prices you listed are kind of crazy as you should be able to get a Flow for $50/rim on closeout pricing now and $90 tops for Flow EX at retail. I have a hardly used Flow (only about a month of use on it) as I had it built to replace another Flow that I ran forever, then the Flow EX came out just following and decided that was going work better for me. PM if interested in rim as it is almost new and I would sell <$50 for sure. I paid like $85 for it before the EX came out.
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    I can get the old Flows at $89 a pair not per rim, that would be crazy indeed.
    I don't really need the extra width as my widest tire is a 2.25.
    I live in Belgium, Europe, fairly flat here, do mostly XC, AM. I'm not hard on things, but my weight normally requires a downhill rim.
    I've destroyed my front wheel on a descent, I wasn't even riding that hard. I noticed a flat tire, replaced the tube. But on tarmac, I noticed the bump in the wheel, a flat spot they call it? It's not out of true because there's no problem when I use my v-brakes.
    I don't ride in snow.

    I can get these rims for roughly the same price a set: dt xr 400 $64, dt ex 500 $89, some mavics. The NoTubes are the most expensive.

  64. #64
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    Hi there - since an employee of Notubes posts here, I might as well copy/paste from the other Flow EX topic:

    Here's my feedback on the Flow EX, with a Specialized Butcher SX, front rim, used for downhill:

    -Mounted tubeless with a non-tubeless tire at 28psi / 1.9 bar (just yellow tape, and stans latex), the tire just blew off the rim in a very loud POP on a hard compression (bike was straight, it is not a tire roll off). I initially thought the rim had broken in half, but the tire just went off the rim on both sides at the same time! It left me pushing the bike to the bottom of the slope. I had the same issue a year ago with a Butcher mounted on a regular Flow, and expected it to be solved with the Flow EX; quite disappointed here.

    -I then switched to tubes, same setup otherwise, Butcher SX and yellow tape, no problem whatsoever. I had a really nasty crash and the rim is still perfectly true (tensioned on the disc side @125kgs) so it seems strong enough for DH. But not tubeless, at least not with a Butcher SX. Don't know how it would handle UST tires or double-ply tires mounted tubeless, though.

    My questions: would using a proper UST tire (like a Maxxis Minion DHF UST) help for a better tubeless setup? Do you guys have a flap for the Flow EX (website is down right now, can't look it up) that would help with a tighter fit? I would really love to run my Flow EX tubeless, instead of using a tube.


    Thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stofken View Post
    I mean for a pair of rims. i'll buy them from ActionSports.de as I'm from Belgium. In their custom wheel builder, the old flow is 70 EUR ($89) a pair and the new EX are 110 EUR ($140) a pair. The guys over at wheelbuilder.com think it's worth it.

    I am leaning towards the old Flow and use that $50 to upgrade from a DT 350 to a DT 240 hub.
    I have run both (Flow and Flow EX). Given your weight and location, I'd recommend the Arch EX or the old (non-EX) Flow. The new Flow-EX is heavier and stronger, but perhaps overkill for your application. The older Flows are plenty strong, a little lighter, and much cheaper . The Arch EX are lighter still, probably as strong as the old Flow, but probably also more expensive.

    Both will give your tires a nice profile, and will run most tires tubeless quite well.

    Quote Originally Posted by SwintOrSlude View Post
    Hi there - since an employee of Notubes posts here, I might as well copy/paste from the other Flow EX topic:

    Here's my feedback on the Flow EX, with a Specialized Butcher SX, front rim, used for downhill:

    -Mounted tubeless with a non-tubeless tire at 28psi / 1.9 bar (just yellow tape, and stans latex), the tire just blew off the rim in a very loud POP on a hard compression (bike was straight, it is not a tire roll off). I initially thought the rim had broken in half, but the tire just went off the rim on both sides at the same time! It left me pushing the bike to the bottom of the slope. I had the same issue a year ago with a Butcher mounted on a regular Flow, and expected it to be solved with the Flow EX; quite disappointed here.

    -I then switched to tubes, same setup otherwise, Butcher SX and yellow tape, no problem whatsoever. I had a really nasty crash and the rim is still perfectly true (tensioned on the disc side @125kgs) so it seems strong enough for DH. But not tubeless, at least not with a Butcher SX. Don't know how it would handle UST tires or double-ply tires mounted tubeless, though.

    My questions: would using a proper UST tire (like a Maxxis Minion DHF UST) help for a better tubeless setup? Do you guys have a flap for the Flow EX (website is down right now, can't look it up) that would help with a tighter fit? I would really love to run my Flow EX tubeless, instead of using a tube.


    Thanks.
    UST beads are generally not as strong as a "proper" DH bead (which is non-folding, vs folding for UST). If you want a bomb-proof tubeless setup run regular non-UST DH tires. They work especially sweet on Stans rims. I have a 2.35 DH casing (not UST) Maxxis Highroller mounted to a Flow EX tubeless on the rear wheel of my trail bike. It was very easy to set up. I only have one ride on it as of yet, but I gave it a very thorough testing (casing jumps and drops on purpose, landing jumps sideways and some really hard cutting) to see if the tire is solid enough for my up-coming trip to Sedona. Results are positive, and I'm going to run that setup with full confidence down there. I weigh 217lbs right now w/o riding gear (98.4kgs).

    btw, Specialized's folding bead tires are "proper UST" in that they have a bead that is shaped to mate to a UST spec rim. As you know, the SX-casing is reinforced, so it shouldn't be a problem. They only thing a UST tire would have different is a rubber coating on the inside of the tire to make it air tight. In non-freeride or dh casing, Spec says they're toughest casing is the Armadillo, even tougher than it's GRID casing (which is the "official" UST tire). They also don't seem to offer their DH tires in 2bliss or GRID versions.

    Finally, unless you are very lightweight and ride tentatively, the general concensus is that tubeless doesn't work all that well for true DH because of the loads placed on the beads. The bottom line is, UST doesn't work well (yet) for DH. There's a reason it is very rare to see tubeless setups at DH races.
    Last edited by slyfink; 11-06-2012 at 07:39 AM.
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    Both EX versions of Arch and Flow are $140 a pair. To add to the dilemma, what about the Pacenti TL28 instead of the Arch EX? Exactly the same price though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stofken View Post
    Both EX versions of Arch and Flow are $140 a pair. To add to the dilemma, what about the Pacenti TL28 instead of the Arch EX? Exactly the same price though.
    I guess it depends on how much 100g are worth to you. Flow +/- = 500g; Arch EX = 400g. I think they are the two best adapted to your purposes, so it really comes down to weight and price. The Flow might work slightly better with UST-beaded tires.

    Aren't Pacenti products 650b? If 650b is what you're after, I don't think the old Flows come in 650b.... so you're looking at Flow EX vs. Pacenti. I know nothing about Pacenti. Who makes their products for them?
    continuous growth is the strategy of a cancer cell.

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    I'm trying to loose another 7 kg, so 100g is really a non-issue
    You mean the old Flows might work slightly better with UST-beaded tires? ZTR's EX 2nd gen BST might move more towards standard beads and further away from UST/TLR? I don't know, but the "blow-off" stories here on the forum really scare the crap out of me!

    Pacenti TL28 also comes in 26".
    Pacenti makes his own rims! Do a search on this forum, you'll be surprised about the good stuff people tell about his rims.

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stofken View Post
    I'm trying to loose another 7 kg, so 100g is really a non-issue
    You mean the old Flows might work slightly better with UST-beaded tires? ZTR's EX 2nd gen BST might move more towards standard beads and further away from UST/TLR? I don't know, but the "blow-off" stories here on the forum really scare the crap out of me!
    Yes, I meant "old" Flows! But to be honest, I've run UST tires on both old and new rims (BST and pre-BST), and they worked fine. On the old Flow's I've run Schwalbe (TL), Specialized (2bliss), Maxxis (UST) and Michelin (UST) tires, no problem, and on the BST-Flow, I've run Specialized and WTB (TCS) tires, as well as a DH casing, wire-bead non UST tire. All of them trouble free in terms of locking the beads to the rim.

    Of course, on my DH bike, I only run DH tires, with tubes. No UST there. I don't ride with a spare tire or tube, and I hate having to walk down the mountain to fix stuff, so I stick with the tried and true.
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    I've ordered the Flow EX, I'll see what gives with my current Schwalbe tires.

  71. #71
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    I got a Flow Ex wheelset with ZTR hubs for $400 on Ebay. I'm running a 2.35 Hans Dampf up front and a 2.35 Nobby Nic in back. I weigh 230. I was able to mount the tires without tire levers, although it took some wrestling to get them on - especially the HD. The beads popped on solidly, and have passed the test over the last few months, including the time that I let the pressure get low and came down hard on the front.
    The rock crawling and especially cornering are improved over my old rims which I think were 20 mm internal width. The cornering is very stable even when sliding. I believe that the extra width even helps keep the beads secure on the wheel. I’m really happy with this wheelset so far. Even though they are not super-light, they are much lighter than the stock wheels that came on my bike.

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stofken View Post
    I've ordered the Flow EX, I'll see what gives with my current Schwalbe tires.
    I have had no issues running Hans Dampf Trail Star or Pace Setter on Flow Ex.

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    Great info so far on this thread! I'm going to order up a Stans wheelset, and am debating whether to use the old Flows ($42/rim), or get the new Flow EX ($80/rim). With gear I weight about 185#, ride typically rocky XC/AM stuff, both up and down. My favorite tires at this point are Specialized Purgatory 2.3/2.4 2Bliss, and I do intend to run these tubeless.

    So with those needs in mind, would it be best to go with the new Flow EX for the added strength, or the old Flows? Is there a consensus on whether the new Flow EX rims are worse for UST/2Bliss/TLR tires than the old Flows?
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  74. #74
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    Going only from Flow 29 to Flow ex 29 means the same spoke length, right ?

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoHeadsBrewing View Post

    So with those needs in mind, would it be best to go with the new Flow EX for the added strength, or the old Flows? Is there a consensus on whether the new Flow EX rims are worse for UST/2Bliss/TLR tires than the old Flows?
    there seems to be a concensus on mtbr... but whether that concensus would hold up to scrutiny is up for debate.

    My experience has been that I have run UST, TL, and 2Bliss tires on the Flow EX no problems. I have also run non-tubeless tires on the EX no problem (a DH-casing High Roller, and currently, the Black Chili Baron).

    That said, I don't think you would be going wrong with the old Flows. They work well too, and so if you can save some coin, why not?

    But to throw a wrench in your equation... you could also consider the Arch EX for even greater weight savings, while maintaining a decent rim width. At your weight, I would think they are a valid option. I weigh 220 before gear and the Flow EX has been bomb-proof. So at 180, I would think the Arch EX should be plenty tough...

    But wait! there's more! there is also the WTB i23. They are a good, strong, proper UST-shaped alternative to the Stans rims. It's what I have on my front wheel and I like it.
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    Is it possible to actually inflate a tire onto these rims without stans liquid?

    So far I have tried floor pump, which CANNOT be possible - and an air compressor.
    The dip in the middle seems to be allowing way too much air between the tape and the tire bead.
    I have not pulled the core out yet, would that make much of a difference?

    I'm trying to mount 2.35 Racing Raplph and Rocket Rons in folding from the Evo line.

    I do intend to use stans, but won't have any for a while and I'd like to be able to continue building the bike.
    Last edited by roobydoo; 12-29-2012 at 06:26 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by roobydoo View Post
    I have not pulled the core out yet, would that make much of a difference?
    Removing the core makes HUGE difference when you are trying to pop the tire onto the wheel. The core restricts the airflow quite a lot, and at this point the volume flow is more important than high pressure.

    You can pop and inflate the tire onto Flow (EX) rims no problem, then depending on the tire it can deflate with time if you don't use sealant. So if you seat other bead of the tire with inner tube first, then remove tube & inset UST valve, you should be able to pop the second bead with high volume floor pump also.


    With compressor you should be able to pop almost any tire to the rim, if you remove the valve core!

    But remember with the compressor, do not try in closed space, if the tire is too loose or tire bead damaged, it can easily pop also off the rim, which gives nice little boom effect and ringing ears if done indoors without hearing protection...

  78. #78
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    Thanks, I have to go to the bike store to get the stans sealant anyways, I may just ask for their help.
    I seem to have misplaced my core tool, so asking for LBS help is likely the smartest route.

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    Quote Originally Posted by roobydoo View Post
    Thanks, I have to go to the bike store to get the stans sealant anyways, I may just ask for their help.
    I seem to have misplaced my core tool, so asking for LBS help is likely the smartest route.
    Only $8 to do a Stans bulk fill at LBS.... not worth the trouble I caused myself.

  80. #80
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    Definitely pull the core - huge difference in terms of air flow. Also you don't need a fancy tool to pull the core - try a leatherman (gently) to get it loose then just hand unscrew from there. Needle nose pliers would work as well afaik.

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    just got flow ex. It took me more than 15 mins to mount a new wired high roller. Tire lever is a must for both mounting and dismounting.

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    Yep, mounting wired tires on ZTR rims is a PITA. Slightly less so when mounting folding tires.

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    Just got myself a Flow EX and mounted a Specialized Clutch Control 2Bliss without a tube. It was a total breeze. Mounting and then inflating the tire with floor pump was simple without issues. Didn't need any soap water or alike. That being said, this is a well worn tire that I have used for quite some time now on my Bontrager Duster rim. I was very surprised....ease of use concerning tubeless mounting of the tire and getting it inflated were on par with my UST spec Duster rims. Will have to see how it holds up in real world riding.

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    Just purchased a new pair of 26" wheels with Flow EX rims. Tried to mount my current Maxxis High roller 2.35 front and Ardent 2.25 rear, both non UST folders. Followed Stans tubeless method as directed, 25mm tape, soapy water, sealant, max 35PSI. Had the Ardent blow off the rim twice within the first hour. Now changed that for another used Ardent and fitted this without any soapy water, wasted one lot of sealant in the process. Checked the first tyre and rim and no damage found. Now im concerned about even trying to ride these.
    I have been using this tyre combo for some time on Crossmax STs and have never experienced a tyre blow off any rim before.
    I know Stans already recommends not using some Schwalbe tyres but im wondering just how many perfectly good tyres are incompatable with these rims.

  85. #85
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    Stans Flow EX

    Quote Originally Posted by c.kempy View Post
    Just purchased a new pair of 26" wheels with Flow EX rims. Tried to mount my current Maxxis High roller 2.35 front and Ardent 2.25 rear, both non UST folders. Followed Stans tubeless method as directed, 25mm tape, soapy water, sealant, max 35PSI. Had the Ardent blow off the rim twice within the first hour. Now changed that for another used Ardent and fitted this without any soapy water, wasted one lot of sealant in the process. Checked the first tyre and rim and no damage found. Now im concerned about even trying to ride these.
    I have been using this tyre combo for some time on Crossmax STs and have never experienced a tyre blow off any rim before.
    I know Stans already recommends not using some Schwalbe tyres but im wondering just how many perfectly good tyres are incompatable with these rims.
    Lots, and you will not know until you try them.
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  86. #86
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    Been running Flow EX and Arch EX 29 wheel sets for over a year, XC and trail riding, hard tail and FS bikes. Tires used have included: Schwalbe racing Ralph 2.25 and 2.4, nobby nic 2.25 and 2.35, maxxis Crossmark 2.1, panaracer rampage 2.35. All tubeless with Stan's sealant. No mounting issues but some went on easier than others, all held air without popping off or burping. Can't say any of these tires were difficult, some needed the lever but think I could get by just using hands if necessary. I'm 180-185lbs without riding gear and run pressures between 22-24psi front and 25-28psi rear.

    Just wanted to add some user experience.

  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by BacDoc View Post
    Been running Flow EX and Arch EX 29 wheel sets for over a year, XC and trail riding, hard tail and FS bikes. Tires used have included: Schwalbe racing Ralph 2.25 and 2.4, nobby nic 2.25 and 2.35, maxxis Crossmark 2.1, panaracer rampage 2.35. All tubeless with Stan's sealant. No mounting issues but some went on easier than others, all held air without popping off or burping. Can't say any of these tires were difficult, some needed the lever but think I could get by just using hands if necessary. I'm 180-185lbs without riding gear and run pressures between 22-24psi front and 25-28psi rear.

    Just wanted to add some user experience.

    How did the tire profiles compare between the ArchEX and FlowEX? I'm specifically interested in the 2.35 Schwalbes. I'm considering the ArchEX in the rear for a little weight savings, but I'm pretty committed to larger-volume tires, wondering if I should just run the FlowEX.

  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jstews View Post
    How did the tire profiles compare between the ArchEX and FlowEX? I'm specifically interested in the 2.35 Schwalbes. I'm considering the ArchEX in the rear for a little weight savings, but I'm pretty committed to larger-volume tires, wondering if I should just run the FlowEX.

    The Flows are 4.5mm wider, which will probably make the tires a good deal more stable at low pressures.

    What's 90 grams anyway? I'd pick the Flow any day of the week, for a trail bike.

  89. #89
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    I have a several years experience with all the NoTubes rims. The new BST is mostly just a shorter sidewall and smaller bead hook to allow the tire to expand more and give better tire performance - it's as close to a tubular as you can get. The tire remains burp-resistant from the horizontal bead seat. The tire will not burp unless the bead is pushed into the center channel of the rim, which takes a tremendous amount of force. All tires will fit on the 26in rims - Flow EX, Flow, Crest, Arch, Arch ex, etc. UST and TCS are harder to mount on the 26in rims because they have a smaller bead than tube type and even tubeless ready tires. WTB TCS tires fall into the UST category because they use a certified UST bead - tighter than tubeless ready. For 29 in wheels the UST standard is even smaller relative to the tube-type 29er rims so the UST and TCS tires are currently next to impossible to mount on NoTubes 29er rims. GEAX TNT tires used to be too tight, but GEAX has increased their bead to fit on NoTubes rims. All tubeless-ready tires except TCS mount fine on NoTubes rims - always mount the valve area last!

  90. #90
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    [QUOTE=Dazed;10429324
    What's 90 grams anyway? [/QUOTE]

    Anytime I think about it, that's what I end up telling myself.

  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jstews View Post
    How did the tire profiles compare between the ArchEX and FlowEX? I'm specifically interested in the 2.35 Schwalbes. I'm considering the ArchEX in the rear for a little weight savings, but I'm pretty committed to larger-volume tires, wondering if I should just run the FlowEX.
    I'm running the Flows up front since I usually run a wider tire on the front. IMO front wheels take more hits and the stronger rim gives confidence. Haven't measured with calipers but 2.35/2.4 tires seem to be wider on the Flow compared to the Arch and as mentioned by others, lower pressure "feels" better on the wider rim. I don't see many mixed wheel sets but Flow front and Arch rear works for me.

  92. #92
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    I've been using the 26" Flow EX for several months now as my front wheel using a well worn Specy Clutch Control 2.3 tubeless (which I was able to mount without issues and inflate with a floor pump) and my experience to date has been very positive. I am now running it as low as 18 psi without issues (I don't jump...2 feet of air max.). Yesterday, I mounted a brandnew Specy Butcher Control 2.3 tubeless also without any problems and then using my floor pump. So far I'm totally sold on the Flow EX. That being said, I would be hesitant to mount a tire with a standard non-tubeless bead.

  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by changingleaf View Post
    For 29 in wheels the UST standard is even smaller relative to the tube-type 29er rims so the UST and TCS tires are currently next to impossible to mount on NoTubes 29er rims.
    This is interesting... just looking at a wheel build and I didn't know this about the Flow Ex's. The tires I run are the WTB Bronson TCS 29... so I'm guessing no-go on the Flow Ex's? Anyone out there actually mount a Bronson TCS to a flow? My rim backup choice is a Velocity Blunt 35... so may have to go that route.
    ...Be careful what you're looking at because it might be looking back...

  94. #94
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    Re: Stans Flow EX

    I just mounted WTB Weirwolf TCS front and Conti Xking UST rear with no problems at all on my Flow EXs. Don't know if that helps

  95. #95
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    Conti Trail King 2.4 Protection on Flow Ex.
    Easy on/off by hand.
    Straight from the Conti packaging and right on to the rim.
    Single layer wrap of Stan's tape.
    Could almost seat the bead with floor pump, but not quite. Needed a quick hit from the compressor.

  96. #96
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    Got my new wheels today, flow ex 29er with stan's rim tape.
    Installed a 2.2 Bronson WTB race 60tpi by hand easy and even got the tire inflated by floor pump without sealant. 2nd tire installation on the rim was even easier (Maxxis Apen 2.1) but couldn't inflate it with floor pump.
    HTH

  97. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by villeneuve80 View Post
    Got my new wheels today, flow ex 29er with stan's rim tape.
    Installed a 2.2 Bronson WTB race 60tpi by hand easy and even got the tire inflated by floor pump without sealant. 2nd tire installation on the rim was even easier (Maxxis Apen 2.1) but couldn't inflate it with floor pump.
    HTH
    That's why I only use TLR, 2Bliss, TNT etc. tires on my Flow rims. Non-tubeless tires can be hit and miss. Never had to use a compressor.
    The trouble with having an open mind is that people will insist on trying to put things in it.

  98. #98
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    I just mounted some Bontrager 29" XR3 Team issue 2.3 to some Flow EX's and had no issues. I seated the bead with a tube then pull have the tire off pulled the tube and put the valve in. put in sealant, put tire back on with soapy bead, and used a floor pump. No issues after sitting all night or the 3 rides I have on them.

    I am 165 with gear and ran them at 20psi with no issues what so ever.

  99. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by villeneuve80 View Post
    2nd tire installation on the rim was even easier (Maxxis Apen 2.1) but couldn't inflate it with floor pump.
    HTH
    finally even with a compressor maxxis aspen would not properly seat so I changed it for a maxxis ardent 2.25 LUST. I didn't install it myself though, my bike was already at my LBS but he said the installation wasn't so bad but he had to use levers... But after that it was easily seated and sealed with stan's and a floor pump...

    Stans Flow EX-img_2181.jpg

    Will see how hard they are to remove on the field !

  100. #100
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    I thought Stans rims (in my case flow Ex) were supposed to be incompatible with WTB Tcs tires. But I had no problem mounting a WTB vigilante on my flows. I had to use a tire lever instead of just my thumbs, but overall a reasonably easy mount. It inflated and seated with a floor pump and the valve cores in. Maybe on the 27.5 size, wtb has changed their sizing?

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