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  1. #1
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    Shimano XT M775 Wheelset Freehub fails ?

    I am currently using a shimano XT M775 wheelset and a few weeks ago my freehub body decided to cave in.

    Well the local shimano agencies say then can only get me a new one in January "Crap Shimano local service"

    I have been looking around for one and want to know if the following will work for me?

    I found the following parts on chainreaction...

    http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/M...x?ModelID=1161

    Will the M776 work on my wheelset? as I understand it is the same wheel? but stronger? "freeride"?

    I tried to Ask the local shimano guys but they don't seem to want to give me a answer..


    Thanks

  2. #2
    wants a taco
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    though ive never done it im sure it would work...the 776 is their hub designed for their wheelset which seems to just have a different flange than the 775. Most of shimanos freehubs are very similar anyways so yea, go for it

  3. #3
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    Here's the exploded diagrams for both wheels

    XT775

    XT776

    The freehubs are the same part numbers for both wheels and for the standard XT hubs.

  4. #4
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    thanks... ill order one and see if I get on the bike soon again

  5. #5
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    Just wanted to add that my new 08 XT freehub failed also. The freehub feels crunchy when rotated.. yuck

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by DH_WP
    I am currently using a shimano XT M775 wheelset and a few weeks ago my freehub body decided to cave in.

    Well the local shimano agencies say then can only get me a new one in January "Crap Shimano local service"

    I have been looking around for one and want to know if the following will work for me?

    I found the following parts on chainreaction...

    http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/M...x?ModelID=1161

    Will the M776 work on my wheelset? as I understand it is the same wheel? but stronger? "freeride"?

    I tried to Ask the local shimano guys but they don't seem to want to give me a answer..


    Thanks
    My XT wheelset freehubs feels crunchy also, and when I opened it up, it had a broken pawl. After a few weeks, it felt like it broke another pawl or two.

    Does the freehub sold by chainreactioncycles include the pawls?
    I bike to EAT!

  7. #7
    6'4"-6'9" with the afro
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    I would give up on Shimano altogether for hubs. Their freehubs are ridiculously weak. I used to burn them out all the time. Get some Hadleys or Kings.

  8. #8
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    Just to add fuel to the fire, I trashed a nearly new m775 freehub as well but got it fixed under warranty in 4 days... Now am trying to figure why there is tons of drag in the hub. I took off the rotor and chain, adjusted the bearings out way loose and it still drags...

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by scocra
    Just to add fuel to the fire, I trashed a nearly new m775 freehub as well but got it fixed under warranty in 4 days... Now am trying to figure why there is tons of drag in the hub. I took off the rotor and chain, adjusted the bearings out way loose and it still drags...
    The washer in there?

  10. #10
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    Are all the aforementioned references to Shimano M775 hubs the M775 straight pull hub variant used in their factory wheels? Or are people having issues with their general production M775 standard flanged hubs as well? I'm interested in developing an association between FH quality and production date and/or location...

  11. #11
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    Mine is an aftermarket hub I picked up at my lbs... as far as the drag issue, I took it apart again and found that the dust cover on the brake side cone had been pushed out of it's groove and was rubbing on the seal ring. I snapped the cover back into place and it rolls much better. I'm still finding these to be a ***** to dial in where they spin super smooth while not making things too loose... been trying the Sheldon Brown method and can't seem to find that sweet spot.

    Ride on!
    Scott.

  12. #12
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    I have also have had freewheel (straight pull from CRC) issues with my 08 xt wheel. A couple of times after fast runs on warm days it kind of siezes and becomes like a fixie temporarily. Seems to settle down after a while but its a worry particularly given level of gear and usage.

    I would have done less the 600km and less than 4 months old. I will try and claim under warranty else may just buy a spare 775 hub - as buying the bits seems more expense.

    I dismantled and cleaned everything just to make sure there wasnt anything caught between freehub and hub body. Has anyone else experienced these symptoms?

  13. #13
    ADIDAB
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    I had the freehub on my XT M775 fail after about 6 months. It was the standard flanged hub. Had it replaced and all seems OK but we'll see how it goes. I've had previous Shimano hubs such as early model XTR's with zero issues so was a little disappointed that this didn't last very long.

    Next hubset will be either DT, Hope or CK...
    My LBS | Riding this and this

  14. #14
    ups and downs
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    Quote Originally Posted by CFoster
    Are all the aforementioned references to Shimano M775 hubs the M775 straight pull hub variant used in their factory wheels? Or are people having issues with their general production M775 standard flanged hubs as well? I'm interested in developing an association between FH quality and production date and/or location...
    The freehubs are the same in both XT hub models.

  15. #15
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    i have an 08 m775 flanged hub on my other bike and havent experienced any issues with that but i wil keep an eye out - tempted to disassemble and regrease just in case. Have been reluctant to remove seal of free hub in case i damage it - i read somewhere you can clean with solvent, blow dry, then reapply lubricant (not sure if its grease or oil??)

    isnt it fun trying to find a 14mm allen key!

  16. #16
    6'4"-6'9" with the afro
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    Yes! I've had it happen 3x. That exactly what happens before the freehub body fails. Kind of like chain suck, but on the cassette, not the chainring. Be careful because it might fail under load and you could hurt yourself (knee on the stem). Or get stuck miles from your car which is what happened to me twice -- once in the summer in Phoenix and I had to walk back about 6 miles (not fun) and once on vacation in Durango and had to end my ride way too early.

    Get a CK or Hadley w/ a SS freehub body and don't get stranded.

  17. #17
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    Sheesh, I swear Shimano said they’d fixed this earlier in the year. Mine lasted about 4 months before they went, can’t believe the amount of components I’ve been binning lately…

  18. #18
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    I just found an interesting page detailing another guy's experience and answering a question of mine which was: Why are there only 12 balls on the drive side when you could easily fit 13? I'm going to call shimano tomorrow and ask.... anyways the site is:
    http://www.pvdwiki.com/index.php?tit...reehub_Failure

    Ride On,
    Scott.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ratt
    The washer in there?
    Hey Ratt,
    What would the washer do that would stop it from flexing / cause it to drag? I need to get a 14mm hex to check if the washer is in there but I just replaced the bearings and tweaked it and it is still really flexing side to side... I have the bearings tight enough so it has to be something else. I'm going to track down a wrench and take the freehub off etc because something's not right and that is the only thing I haven't taken apart 5 times. This hub is really starting to piss me off... maybe the FH body fixing bolt is loose?

    Ride On,
    Scott.

  20. #20
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    Wheel & hub opinion

    sorry, wrong thread

    Thx

  21. #21
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    Has anyone tried the XTR freehub body?

    It says it's interchangeable with the XT hub in the techdocs here.

    Does the XTR suffer from the same pissweak pawls as the XTR?

  22. #22
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    Hi Jaseg
    The freehub on the XT wheelset is the same as the XT hub , "lookign at the product codes"
    so the following will work. FH-M770 , FH-M975 , FH - M775.
    I would assume the XTR would be more durable as my current XTR hub has lasted since 2004.


    Going to see if I can get any of the following somewhere online.. My local Shimano agent tells me they can only help in June...pathetic.

  23. #23
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    I'll be trying the XTR freehub for sure if the freehub on the XT wheelset under the Christmas tree blows.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaseh
    Has anyone tried the XTR freehub body?

    It says it's interchangeable with the XT hub in the techdocs here.

    Does the XTR suffer from the same pissweak pawls as the XTR?

    I have the XTR M975 hub bought from CRC and came across this thread because I was experiencing the same symptom. The crunching sound inst as apparent as some described here but I hear it time to time when backpedaling. I have less than 500 miles on them since purchase a year ago.

  25. #25
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    I have the XTR M975 hub bought from CRC and came across this thread because I was experiencing the same symptom. The crunching sound inst as apparent as some described here but I hear it time to time when backpedaling. I have less than 500 miles on them since purchase a year ago.

  26. #26
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    I also had the hub on my 08 XT wheelset fail after only a few months of riding. LBS shipped it back to Shimano and got it back about 2 weeks later. Been about 6 months now and no issues so far.
    Cannondale Rush *5z

  27. #27
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    I bought my wheelset (only the hub is shimano) online. Can I take the defective wheel to any Shimano dealer (like the LBS) to have them ship to shimano for warranty service? LBS was reluctant to help me the last time I tried to service my Manitou fork (bought from some online store). Answer technician however said any manitou dealer should be able to help me send my fork back for warranty service. I will check with Shimano first thing Monday. Thanks.

  28. #28
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    I had a M775 XT rear hub just totally die on Tuesday. Sucks. Glad to hear other people are having problems too.

    STAY AWAY FROM THESE HUBS.

    Contacting Shimano is a hassle and a run around.

  29. #29
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    Bump for continued opinions. As a budget hub with decent engagement, people should know if they need to stay away from it.
    ***

  30. #30
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    I have two. Over 8 months of use with no problems.
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  31. #31
    All 26.5" all the time!
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    Most people will balk at the thought of overhauling brand new hubs, but it's always worked for me.

    I've been using and abusing XT hubs since 1990 with no problems. Of course, the freehub bodies get purged of the thin oil from the factory and replaced with a thin grease. This isn't advised by Shimano, but then again, they are in the business of selling replacement parts.

  32. #32
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    I had one fail on me yesterday. M775 hub that I laced up. I'd estimate the wheel had less than 200 miles on it, and no wet-weather or muddy riding. I'm relatively light and easy on equipment. I've ran Shimano hubs on the MTB pretty much exclusively for the last 8 years (with many, many more miles and tons of muddy races), and this is the first freehub failure I've had.

    I'll try the warranty route, but I went ahead and ordered a spare freehub from Jenson as they seem to be one of the few places that have them in stock. Park also now has a 14mm hex wrench, so I guess I'll be ordering one of those as well.

    Has Shimano fixed this issue, or should I expect the likelihood of another failure to be relatively high?

  33. #33
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    Anyone have any more news on this?

  34. #34
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    i have this wheel set as well, and i have noticed that when i have the wheel spinning quickly freewheeling while the cassette is still it sways around as if buckled. could this be a problem in my freewheel or is my cassette past it? my wheel was buckled but i think i have it running quite true now.

  35. #35
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    The freehub finally died on my 776's. First time this has ever happened to me through many different sets of wheels. Clearly something is wrong with these things?!? I am not too happy with the product....
    "I'm supa-fly TNT, I'm tha guns of the navarone!"

  36. #36
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    Does the 2009 M775 wheelset have the same freehub issues as the 2008 M775 wheelset? Is there any chance that Shimano addressed this issue for the current model?

  37. #37
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    i have the m770 on my 700c touring-turned-commuter bike. i am very gentle on my equipment, and it has only seen rain less than a handful of times.

    yesterday, the freehub turned into a fixed gear. since i bought the wheels online, i have to source a wheel box from an LBS and ship the wheel back to colorado. i would remove the freehub myself, but no one in town has a 14mm hex key. somewhat ironic because shimano is just an hour north from me (san diego).

  38. #38
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    While riding the other day, my bike started to get progressively harder to pedal. The rear hub was starting to seize up. When I got home I disassembled everything and it looks like the freehub was not properly torqued and worked its way outward, binding the hub. In the process it looks like the inner bearing race of the freehub received damage. The disk side of the hub bearing race appears to be OK and after cleaning and repacking, the bearings feel smooth. I 'm going to order a new freehub but I was wondering if the freehub body fixing bolt comes with the new free hub? According to the schematic I have, it should come out of the frrehub, but mine does not.
    This bike/hub has about 400 miles on it and I never disassembled before to check everything for proper torque.
    Also, anyone have any suggetions on the best place to order online from?

    http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/te...9830728616.pdf

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by vmaxx4 View Post
    While riding the other day, my bike started to get progressively harder to pedal. The rear hub was starting to seize up. When I got home I disassembled everything and it looks like the freehub was not properly torqued and worked its way outward, binding the hub. In the process it looks like the inner bearing race of the freehub received damage. The disk side of the hub bearing race appears to be OK and after cleaning and repacking, the bearings feel smooth. I 'm going to order a new freehub but I was wondering if the freehub body fixing bolt comes with the new free hub? According to the schematic I have, it should come out of the frrehub, but mine does not.
    This bike/hub has about 400 miles on it and I never disassembled before to check everything for proper torque.
    Also, anyone have any suggetions on the best place to order online from?

    http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/te...9830728616.pdf
    All of the replacement 770/775 freehub bodies that I have seen come with the bolt, and the bolt is removable (just pops out when you push on it).

    Hope that helps,

    -D

  40. #40
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    Wow, it's nice to know that I'm not the only one having issues. But get this: I have some old bikes from the 90's too, and ALL of those have GOOD freehubs...even the cheap ones!

    I don't know how Shimano could have screwed this up so badly?

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crashman1 View Post
    Wow, it's nice to know that I'm not the only one having issues. But get this: I have some old bikes from the 90's too, and ALL of those have GOOD freehubs...even the cheap ones!

    I don't know how Shimano could have screwed this up so badly?
    The 775 is the only FH I have had fail (twice, two different hubs--which is an update from my reply of several years ago). The newer replacements have been fine, and reportedly Shimano made a change after the failures in the early production.

    Seems there were some strength issues when going to a faster engagement and a larger diameter axle. Less room for the pawls and ratchet.
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  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy View Post
    The 775 is the only FH I have had fail (twice, two different hubs--which is an update from my reply of several years ago). The newer replacements have been fine, and reportedly Shimano made a change after the failures in the early production.

    Seems there were some strength issues when going to a faster engagement and a larger diameter axle. Less room for the pawls and ratchet.
    Is there a way to identify the newer freehub bodies?

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by BitterDave View Post
    Is there a way to identify the newer freehub bodies?
    I doubt that the old versions are still around. Mine failed 2 years ago when about a year old. The replacements were fine. The problems were identified in the the first few months of release.
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  44. #44
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    Stay away from shimano xt hubs

    Hi,

    given the history documented on this site and my own recent experience involving two hubs, it is hard to reach any other conclusion.

    I built what was to be my enduro big trip wheelset with XT hubs a couple of months back, for my 29er. The week before my Moab trip the freehub failed and I had to coast down from a training ride. I learned that Shimano makes a 29er specific hub, the M629, which, to the best of my research, features a stronger freehub to tolerate the higher forces that can be placed on the mechanism. "My fault," I thought, wrong hub for the application.

    I bought the M629 hub and had it fedexed to my place, and built it into the wheel, thankfully it has the same flange dimensions so the spokes were the same. Moab went fine, including slickrock, which admittedly places enormous strains on any freehub. But just last week after a big riding day in Oregon the M629 free hub failed.

    Admittedly - I am hard on a hub. I am 170lbs and ride a 29er with the associated higher forces on the freehub when you are in lowest gear, furthermore I like to ride up really steep stuff, and I do so a lot. But this is mountain biking, right, you would think an XT would be rated to handle a guy a lot heavier than me riding up stuff.

    The irony is that my "race" lightweight wheelset, with dt revolution spokes and a dt 240 hub has performed flawlessly for 20 months of continuous abuse including bad weather and brutally steep climbs, while two Shimano hubs have failed within 2 months. I disassembled and examined the dt 240 freehub recently, the famed star ratchet, and it is in pristine condition.

    So, my experience poses 2 questions:

    1) I have heard, but do not know, that the XTR freehub is better than the XT, but I have also heard that it is more delicate because of titanium bits, does this one for the extra money perform more reliably?

    2) Another question, is there an economical hub with a decent freehub. We all know that DT 240, CK, Hadley, have great freehubs, but can you get a rear freehub at a reasonable price that functions well?

    Hope this report helps...

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikengineer View Post
    Hi,

    given the history documented on this site and my own recent experience involving two hubs, it is hard to reach any other conclusion.....


    So, my experience poses 2 questions:

    1) I have heard, but do not know, that the XTR freehub is better than the XT, but I have also heard that it is more delicate because of titanium bits, does this one for the extra money perform more reliably?

    2) Another question, is there an economical hub with a decent freehub. We all know that DT 240, CK, Hadley, have great freehubs, but can you get a rear freehub at a reasonable price that functions well?

    Hope this report helps...
    I went through a couple of the XT freehubs before moving to the XTR, and I've not had it fail yet. Every now and then it will make a slight pop, seemingly if you try to engage the freehub mid-ratchet cycle. While this gives pause for thought, it has not caused any issues. I do bring a spare XT freehub on trips, just in case, though, as there is the infrequent report of an XTR failing. I'll have to add that Shimano has been great about the warranty.

    As for relatively inexpensive but reliable hubs, folks seem to like the Hopes. I've not used them personally, so I can't say how they hold up to someone who is really hard on freehubs (most folks aren't). Personally, I've broken 5 over the years: XT, Dura-Ace and Ultegra, so I know how frustrating it can be, especially if the break ends up turning your bike into a fixed gear, which is what happened to me at the top of the Middle fork Trail at MBO.

    -D

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diesel~ View Post
    I went through a couple of the XT freehubs before moving to the XTR, and I've not had it fail yet. Every now and then it will make a slight pop, seemingly if you try to engage the freehub mid-ratchet cycle. While this gives pause for thought, it has not caused any issues. I do bring a spare XT freehub on trips, just in case, though, as there is the infrequent report of an XTR failing. I'll have to add that Shimano has been great about the warranty.

    As for relatively inexpensive but reliable hubs, folks seem to like the Hopes. I've not used them personally, so I can't say how they hold up to someone who is really hard on freehubs (most folks aren't). Personally, I've broken 5 over the years: XT, Dura-Ace and Ultegra, so I know how frustrating it can be, especially if the break ends up turning your bike into a fixed gear, which is what happened to me at the top of the Middle fork Trail at MBO.

    -D
    I chip the teeth gradually, which eventually turns the freehub into a no-gear. I think I'd rather be fixed-gear than pushing along the ground like a scooter.

  47. #47
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    This past monday night while riding uphill, i felt a drag like the brake was on. Stopped, spun the rear wheel and noticed a lot of drag on the rotor. Re-checked the skewer and still had drag. Getting dark, so I figure I would head down and get out and inspect at home. About 300 yards later, the hub totally freezes (not the freehub, but the axle itself) blows up the skewer, pops the cone cap off and rottates the wheel within the frame which completely trashes the rotor.

    5 mile walk out carrying the bike and wheel in the dark with 6,000 mosquitos as close firends of mine.

    Take it to LBS as it was a stock wheel M775 on a bike purchased there and the mechanic is amazed at how bad it seized. Shimano steps up and is sending a wheel, rotor, and skewer ou this week.

    2010 wheelset. Any ideas as to what would have caused the axle to seize. Only about 500 miles on the wheel since new.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimmybagadonuts View Post
    This past monday night while riding uphill, i felt a drag like the brake was on. Stopped, spun the rear wheel and noticed a lot of drag on the rotor. Re-checked the skewer and still had drag. Getting dark, so I figure I would head down and get out and inspect at home. About 300 yards later, the hub totally freezes (not the freehub, but the axle itself) blows up the skewer, pops the cone cap off and rottates the wheel within the frame which completely trashes the rotor.

    5 mile walk out carrying the bike and wheel in the dark with 6,000 mosquitos as close firends of mine.

    Take it to LBS as it was a stock wheel M775 on a bike purchased there and the mechanic is amazed at how bad it seized. Shimano steps up and is sending a wheel, rotor, and skewer ou this week.

    2010 wheelset. Any ideas as to what would have caused the axle to seize. Only about 500 miles on the wheel since new.
    Yeh, I had an XT hub like that a long time ago. The right-side lock nut was loose, allowing the bearing cone to self-tighten. This only happens on the right side, because the left-side bearing cone spins towards the locknut when you're rolling forward.

    This is normally a manufacturer mistake because mechanics work from the left side.

  49. #49
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    I agree with the guy above regarding the stuff produced in the 1990's, it was so reliable and I rarely heard of failed freehubs, and that was with almost no maintenance! I get the feeling that the quality if metal has diminished.All I know is that there are still alot of old 90's era stuff running fine.

  50. #50
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    these are the best xt hubs ive had
    Deore XT Freehub M756 - 6 Bolt Disc

  51. #51
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    Slipping / cracking shimano xt freehubs

    I have been having a LOT of problems with multiple failures of new Shimano XT freehubs in the last few years. Making a loud cracking noises, or worse, slipping, usually on engagement after freewheeling, but sometimes later, even after a few crank revolutions, which is even more unexpected and dangerous.

    All of them have been Shimano XT and bought form Chain Reaction Cycles in Ireland.
    I have had the same problem with 2 complete rear wheels (the most recent only purchased a couple of months ago), and 2 XT hubs (bought specifically for the freehubs because it was better value than the freehubs alone).

    Having had yet another failure today (one so bad I can't just ignore or live with), and reading up on the net, I still can't tell for sure whether CRC in particular has had a very large bad batch, or if Shimano has put out bad stock to multiple shops, distributors, and suppliers.
    One thing is for sure, this is not an isolated problem. There are multiple instances documented online.

    Today’s freehub will go in the bin. I have swapped it out for one I had on a spare wheel. This new one has also only had a couple of months use, but I remember also suffers from occasional cracking noises and slips. So, I have removed the seal from the rear, and flushed it out with oil before fitting.

    While I hope this works (should grease be making the pawls stick from the factory), I suspect they are just plain defective, and that Shimano should have issued a safety warning and recall.

    If anyone knows of a safe and reliable freehub body that will fit to XT hubs, please post, as I need one for both my bikes!
    Last edited by xr600; 08-26-2012 at 01:57 PM.

  52. #52
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    Wow I thought the XT hubs were good, I was just about to buy a set of these to fit my new ZTR Flow 26" - 32 Hole White Rims.

    Shimano XT M756A Rear Hub Black, 135mm QR, 32 Hole
    Shimano Deore XT M756 Disc Front Hub Black, 32H, 100mm


    GULP!
    Last edited by Trail_Blazer; 08-26-2012 at 08:28 PM.

  53. #53
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    I wouldn't try to put you off buying those wheels, I would go ahead anyway.
    What I am talking about here is a potentialy HUGE batch of faulty Shimano freehubs, which I think I have been falling foul of, for what seems like at least the last few years.
    I'm not going to blame CRC here either, unless they have been having a lot of complaints from others, and still selling them of course.

  54. #54
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    Hi schristie11,

    I have been doing some more on-line research and would like to retract my last post advising to go ahead and buy that rear hub anyway.

    The XT756 is (I think) the hub I have on my 2 mountain bikes now.
    (I have also taken the freehubs from 2 new XT hubs that had the small flange)

    NONE OF MY RECENT FREEHUBS HAVE NOT SLIPPED OCCASIONALLY FROM NEW!

    All the Shimano freewheels (on the cross country biased ranges) appear to be the same junk.

    They all regularly have the same problems(I have experienced 1 & 2)
    1) Slipping freehubs due to bad pawl engagement
    2) Straight from new, the cones work loose
    3) Grating noise leading to freehub seizure
    4)The cones actually self tighten causing complete hub faiure

    Time will tell if the slipping can be cured by flushing out any grease with oil

    You may find posts on forums from people saying htis only affected some older hubs. Not true, they are still on sale.

    My advice is, don't but any XT (or any Shimano for that matter) rear hub from recent years (who knows if 2012 /2013 hubs will be OK).

    The front hub seams to be great ... as it should be!

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by schristie11 View Post
    Shimano XT M756A Rear Hub Black, 135mm QR, 32 Hole

    GULP!
    Avoid this one. The 756A is more like a glorified Alivio rear hub. Mush worse sealing than plain 756 and I suspect worse quality bearing races too. Entirely different innards than good old 756, of which there are a HELL of a lot in use currently, even to the point it's the go-to hub for value minded cyclists (around here at least, I get to build more wheels around those than any other hub).
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  56. #56
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    Ug!
    This is getting a lot more complex than I wanted . lol
    Now I'm wondering if I should pony up for a Hope or king or DT rear hub.

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by schristie11 View Post
    Ug!
    This is getting a lot more complex than I wanted . lol
    Now I'm wondering if I should pony up for a Hope or king or DT rear hub.
    Those hubs are great, can't really go wrong with either one.

    My hub of choice is Hope Pro 2 SS/Trials, but it's really loud. There are some technically superior hubs, but value wise, this one is better in the end. May not be your cup of tea however, if you want a full complement of cogs on your cassette.

    Take a look at Nukeproof Generator rear hubs. They have proven themselves. One of these is what I would have picked if I wanted a full-cassette hub for a budget build. Basically they are generic Taiwanese cartridge bearing hubs, but Generators have 30 POE freehubs and are sealed better than most.
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  58. #58
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    What I want is a low drag quiet low maintenance hub rear with instant engagement.
    Maybe one with cartridge bearings, so I can swap them out easy instead of having to grease the bearings.
    I want to use a full 10 speed cassette and quick release mounts.
    Any ideas are welcome, I have another thread on this topic:
    Good and Quiet Hubs - Mtbr Forums

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by schristie11 View Post
    What I want is a low drag quiet low maintenance hub rear with instant engagement.
    Maybe one with cartridge bearings, so I can swap them out easy instead of having to grease the bearings.
    I want to use a full 10 speed cassette and quick release mounts.
    When I set out to find a hub with similar properties (except I looked for a singlespeed hub), I ended up with True Precision Poacher hub. To my knowledge, more silent and quick engaging hub simply doesn't exist. Shimano used to make silent clutch hubs for police bikes, but these had no support for disk brakes and are hard to find.

    True Precision also make hubs for full cassettes.

    I ran mine for almost a year without any issues. Then went to a fixed gear trials hub, because I also run Hammerschmidt, which has its own coasting mechanism.

    Downsides of TP hubs are weight, price and possibly vulnerability to water ingress. Because of this suspicion I only rode mine in fair weather and in sub freezing temperatures, so can't confirm this.

    I'm going to reuse my TP hub in a burly DJ/street build. Like the quietness and the engagement too much to part with it. Sadly, TP SS cogs are proprietary and cost $35 each, plus international shipping, and I need different gearing (32-16) than the one I used with HS (24-20).
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  60. #60
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    FLUSHING WITH OIL WILL NOT FIX A SLIPPING (FROM NEW) SHIMANO XT FREEHUB

    Well today I tried my bike on a 12 mile loop, with the new (200 miles ish of use) Shimano XT freehub fitted. I first flushed it with oil, as this freehub, taken from a spare wheel with a split rim, also suffered from the occasional slip from the very first ride, but I had just lived with it.
    Well all was well, until 3 miles from home, when pulling away from a traffic light stop, there was a now familiar loud cracking noise from the freehub, and the pedals slipped forwards 1 or 2 POEs.
    Enough is enough! Shimano have cost me a lot of money in the last couple of years with this problem.
    I will now have to buy 2 alternative new rear wheels / hubs for my 2 mountain bikes, that I cannot ride with any peace of mind with a problem like this.
    I will never choose to buy a Shimano rear hub again, as they have completely lost my confidence in their quality of freehubs. I must have gone through at least 5 in 2 years. While I lived with them they ruined many a ride. I spent hundreds on possibly unnecessary other drivetrain parts before knowing for sure that it was multiple freehub failures all along. Shimano must have known, and should have recalled the lot. What a disgrace!

  61. #61
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    Well after 3 months on my XT M775 wheels, the rear hub is not doing well. The free hub feels very loose and its making nasty crunching noise when it spin. I'm taking it to the shop tomorrow to hopefully get a new freehub under warranty.
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  62. #62
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    Turns out, the free hub on my XT hub cracked in half. And, according to the bike shop, Shimano won't warranty it either (despite the fact its 3 months old). Looks like I'll pay for a new free hub and just sell these XT wheels.

    I learned my lesson, I'm not buying a Shimano wheels/hubs again.
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  63. #63
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    It's a real shame. Whatever people used to think of Shimano's one time monopoly etc. at least you used to be able to count on reasonably reliable performance from their components. I just dont believe that's the case anymore. They have damaged their reputation in recent years, by producing short lived, throw away drivetrain components in particular. But these freehub body issues are totally unforgivable.
    They are just plain defective from new.

  64. #64
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    MBR Magazine agrees, XT freehub is faulty !

    In the October 2012 issue of MBR magazine, page 111, they are group testing all-mountain wheelsets.

    The Shimano XT Trail WH-788 £360 pair.

    Quote:-

    "One thing that's been disconcerting is from the very first ride the Shimano freehub body has cracked and slipped loudly."

    They give the Shimano wheels a score of 6 out of 10, the lowest on the test.

    While it was nice to see a magazine print an honest statement, about what the buyer faces these days (and has for some considerable time) when they buy any Shimano rear hub, I wish they had gone a lot further.
    A score of even 6 is still unjustifiable for a wheelset, where the rear hub is unrideable at best, and at worst is plain dangerous. Common sense dictates that a score of 0 is what is required here, much the same as you would expect to give to a handlebar which snapped off at the stem on a routine first test ride.
    This is not something that is safe to just live with, if you really think about it. You cant even change the freehub body at your own cost to rectify the problem either, as any replacement Shimano freehub body will invariably suffer the same slipping problem, right out of the box. At least that has been my experience with my last 3 rear wheels, and as many new separate rear hubs, bought specifically for the freehub bodies.

    The number of near misses, ruined rides, and hundreds of pounds spent on unnecessary drivetrain parts, thanks to Shimano exploiting me on this issue, makes my blood boil.

  65. #65
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    One word!

    S

    L

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    Nuff said!
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  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by VTSession View Post
    Turns out, the free hub on my XT hub cracked in half. And, according to the bike shop, Shimano won't warranty it either (despite the fact its 3 months old). Looks like I'll pay for a new free hub and just sell these XT wheels.

    I learned my lesson, I'm not buying a Shimano wheels/hubs again.

    I wouldn't trust the LBS, I would send the hubs or just freehubs into shimano because shimano has never refused to warranty anything I have ever sent in. And yeah... many times the LBS's have said, no-way shimano won't fix that, and every time shimano has fixed it. For instant, last month I was riding a brand new moots pro that I just got done building up with all XTR drive components that I bought online at the beginning of this year, anyway, the "clamp pivot pin" on the my front derailleur snapped, so the front derailleur slid down into my crank, and that destroyed... my new XTR crank, my new XTR front derailleur, my new XTR chain, my new XTR rear wheel (the front derailleur and chain ripdded spokes right out my new stans notubes rim).So I had a total failure. Anyhow... I called shimano and they told me to take the bike to my LBS, and those guys were like, shimano won't cover any of this. Anyhow... to make a long story short... shimano replaced everything, they even had a new stans rear wheel built up for me, and they also gave me a new XTR wheel set for free. So like I said don't trust any LBS, send it directly into shimano because shimano will make it right.

  67. #67
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    New question here. 775 freehub disassembly?

    Well, another dead 775 freehub to report. About 9000 km on it, in wet & muddy conditions. Started to make funny noises and slip sometimes.


    Has anyone had success in picking one apart? I failed to do it, and here's the story.

    I ground a 21 mm hex socket into a 2-prong tool to fit the cup in Shimano freehubs. Used it on earlier freehubs (ones designed for steel axles), such as 756, all was fine every time. Tried it on a 775, had to create more torque than ever on a cup and finally a piece of cup cracked off from the stress. The cup itself did not move at all. Maybe there's threadlocker involved..

    I was also unpleasantly surprised to find the back rubber seal on freehub to be attached permanently to the body (as if welded), as opposed to it being removable on earlier models. This of course complicates any attempts to flush the freehub with solvents or oil, as mentioned above.


    To sum it up, Shimano seem to have went further in their policy of modular freehub replacement by taking steps to complicate freehub maintenance.


    What are your experiences guys?

    PS
    Please feel free to necropost here if you're from 2013 or later and still have experience with 775 freehubs.
    Last edited by J. Random Psycho; 12-05-2012 at 03:00 PM.
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  68. #68
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    I suggest heating the part in either boiling water or with a propane torch. If its some kind of loctite its plastic and almost all plastics gets a lot weaker at 100C. I have no experiences with shimano but I know what you're talking about. I have a new model ringle I tried to take apart but it refused. But i had no real interest in getting apart since its a **** taiwan hub anyway. But yeay they are hard to fully tear apart. Maybe i'll have a go at it in a few years. But I kinda doubt it.

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  69. #69
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    Yes, if I encounter another such freehub I'll use a heat gun on it, set to 125 Celsius. Perhaps it's indeed threadlocked.

    I also forgot to mention, that after the cup cracked I attempted the screwdriver and hammer method on the remaining slot. Cup didn't move either, and the pressure was such that the screwdriver end was taking some visible damage. But this desperate method has been successfully used on some earlier freehubs (not by me).
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  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by J. Random Psycho View Post
    Avoid this one. The 756A is more like a glorified Alivio rear hub. Mush worse sealing than plain 756 and I suspect worse quality bearing races too. Entirely different innards than good old 756
    I've got an update on this.

    The rear hubs being now sold as FH-M756 at CRC come labeled FH-M756A, but they are no longer like glorified Alivio. Although the insides are still different from plain 756, they are not necessarily worse than these and I'd say certainly better than 756A design that I was talking about.

    There are now rubber contact seals at both sides. Cones look better polished. Locknuts are still hexagonal Alivio style, not round flanged 756 style; this feature can be used to identify plain 756 at first glance from either side. Another large external difference is how the non-drive side looks. On plain 756 it's a big, tall rubber cone. On "bad" (old) 756A it's a large diameter, low height black dome. And on "good" (new) 756A it's black and flat with a small diameter, low cone in the middle.

    My guess is that Shimano has recently merged 756 and 756A into this design.
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  71. #71
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    I just found this thread through a google search.
    I have a black 36h fh-m756 xt hub that I bought while working at a shop. probably came from hawley, but maybe qbp, maybe j&b; I don't remember.

    I had problems with the freewheel catching and acting like a fixie, but not enough to cause derailleur damage, just enough to be a pain.

    I figured I too had a damaged freehub, as a few days before the non-freewheeling started I had a "chain-slip" on a steep climb; I figured it was related to a worn derailleur and crappy housing, but now I think I know what happened.

    I pulled out the axle and went to remove the freehub body fixing bolt with a 10mm allen wrench and the bolt just fell out. I worked the freehub off the body and immediately noticed that the teeth that keep the freehub from spinning on the hub were severely damaged, as though the body fixing bolt had loosened and the whole freehub had spun around with respect to the hub body, chewing off about a 1/4 of the teeth from the hub body (freehub body looks and spins fine when taken off the hub). the threads in the hub body where the fixing bolt goes in were a bit damaged (but really hard to see down in there) but I was able to get the bolt to thread on. There were only 8 of 9 bearings on the drive side, I suspect this allowed the freehub to wobble off of the teeth more easily.

    I've never heard of a freehub body fixing bolt coming loose, let alone backing all of the way out. the hub is about 2 yrs old and I do ride a lot. The bearings came out quite clean except the missing one... about a year ago I had to retighten the drive side locknut, but I only loosened the axle, never removed it, so I know those bearings were absent from the factory.

    Even if I warranty this succesfully, I'll still have to rebuild my wheel, and the rim really isn't in good enough shape to do that. the ideal course of events would have been for this wheel to become an eventual backup.

    And I thought I was buying a reliable hub.

    edit: freehub is cracked!

    here are full-size pics: https://plus.google.com/photos/10034...LCm7Z3Z5d_UxAE








  72. #72
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    It doesn't happen often but yes, freehub bolts can self-unwind. Because of this I not only check drive side locknut tightness on Shimano hubs (including new ones), but also the freehub bolt.
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  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by PretendGentleman View Post
    I pulled out the axle and went to remove the freehub body fixing bolt with a 10mm allen wrench and the bolt just fell out...I've never heard of a freehub body fixing bolt coming loose, let alone backing all of the way out...And I thought I was buying a reliable hub.

    edit: freehub is cracked!
    And there's your answer. Cracked freehub body loosened the bolt slightly. Since it was no longer locked in place, it walked out. The hub itself was probably of adequate quality, the freehub probably had a small defect. Shimano should warranty that hub, and if you don't need the replacement hub for a wheel rebuild...ebay it?

  74. #74
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    Cracked FH body

    Was a replacement from August. I'd had issues with the hub loosening (I think the axles are too long to get a proper adjustment) so a friend's shop had all the internals sent out and replaced them for me including a new FB. Last weekend I hear a nasty noise out back but the FH wasn't slipping. I had ANOTHER spare lying around from a friend who said I'd need it one day. Just pulled it off and guesss what? Cracked. Cassette was torqued to spec on install so who knows...
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Shimano XT M775 Wheelset Freehub fails ?-img_3126.jpg  

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  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by sjordan72 View Post
    Was a replacement from August. I'd had issues with the hub loosening (I think the axles are too long to get a proper adjustment) so a friend's shop had all the internals sent out and replaced them for me including a new FB. Last weekend I hear a nasty noise out back but the FH wasn't slipping. I had ANOTHER spare lying around from a friend who said I'd need it one day. Just pulled it off and guesss what? Cracked. Cassette was torqued to spec on install so who knows...
    I have to wonder if these cracked freehub bodies are coming from Singapore or Malaysia. It seems Shimano's parts were much higher quality when manufactured in Japan, even if the designs of those Japanese parts were dated.

  76. #76
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    I had the same crack failure (fully on one side and halfway on the other) after 1.5 years of light use on my replacement freehub after the original seized. I'm surprised that the cassette lock ring would still tighten after I found it (yes, I did another ride on the cracked body and it held up - who knows how long it's been cracked!)

    Going to buy a replacement and sell the XT wheel.

  77. #77
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    i wish i had found this topic eralier

    around 1000km xc on it.



    sh*t.

  78. #78
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    There is more than one ratchet model used on 9sp XT free hubs. Enjoy:

    M750 Y-3BC-98030
    M752 Y-3BD-98010
    M755 Y-3BC-98010
    M756 Y-3BD-98010
    M756A Y-3SW-98060
    M760 Y-3CO-98010
    M765 Y-3CO-98010
    M770 Y-3CZ-98050
    M775 Y-3CZ-98050
    M785 Y-3CZ-98050
    M788 Y-3TH-98060
    T660 Y-3D6-98050
    T670 Y-3D6-98050
    T675 Y-3D6-98050
    T780 Y-3CZ-98050

    The Y-3CZ-98050 is the notorious model used with the 12mm aluminum axle. The dog-ears on the pawls snap off and turn into shrapnel that gets jammed in place. Your bike becomes a fixie/der destroyer.

    Other ratchets use pawls without dog-ears. There is a single spring down the center of the pawl (see Phil Wood) rather than two on the dog ears. They seem to fail by freewheeling due to wear or body cracking.

    The Y-3D6-98050 is on a 10mm steel axle with the same fixing bolt as the Y-3SW-98060. It may or may not have the same problem as the Y-3CZ-98050.

    The Y-3SW-98060 on the 756A is the same as that on the M529. This is the high flange hub Shimano rates for 36t cogs and 29ers. I would guess the M756A, with its high flanges, could pass the test as well.

    As a side note, the 36t rated low-mid flange M629 uses the Y-3D3-98080. This 32 point free hub is the same found on the SLX M675. The M675 and M629 seem to be the same save the hubshell finish/graphics.

    What I would love to see is postings noting the exact ratchet part number that failed. Just to get an idea of what is really going on.

  79. #79
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    So it's the same part# for 775 and 785 hubs. Maybe Shimano have "hidden" revisions not reflected in those designations? Otherwise 785 inherits all the problems of 775.
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  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by kemal View Post
    What I would love to see is postings noting the exact ratchet part number that failed. Just to get an idea of what is really going on.
    I dont't know the ratchet's part number but i was running the FH-M785 bought in early 2013 from bike-components.de

    I sent the wheel in January 2014 to Shimano and they replaced the freehub on warranty. Unfotunately the hub turned into crap after one wet ride so i decided to switch to SLX m665.

    My fh-m785 after a wet ride:
    Shimano XT M775 Wheelset Freehub fails ?-img_2884.jpg
    Shimano XT M775 Wheelset Freehub fails ?-img_2885.jpg
    Shimano XT M775 Wheelset Freehub fails ?-img_2880.jpg

  81. #81
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    that's contaminated grease, but that rust wouldn't develop in one ride, that's a long-term issue....

  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by abuwz View Post
    Unfotunately the hub turned into crap after one wet ride so i decided to switch to SLX m665.

    It probably took more than one ride to develop the pitting on that cone too, holy schmoly!

  83. #83
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    I replaced my xt with a dt swiss 350 hub about 800 miles ago. I like the 18 point engagement. It's an expensive hub, 3-4 times the xt's price. I'll know for sure if it outlasts an xt in another 3 months. I even broke the supposedly stronger 36t compatible slx freehub I replaced my xt freehub with. No shimano hub has lasted more than 6 mo on my mtb.

  84. #84
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    Such cone damage is usually due to misadjustment.

    With that said, my rear hubs of choice these days are Nukeproof Generator and True Precision, with strong preference to the latter even though it's like 200 g heavier.
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  85. #85
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    Shimano XT M775 Wheelset Freehub fails ?

    Quote Originally Posted by J. Random Psycho View Post
    Such cone damage is usually due to misadjustment.

    With that said, my rear hubs of choice these days are Nukeproof Generator and True Precision, with strong preference to the latter even though it's like 200 g heavier.
    Misadjustment and/or a hub that would not hold the adjustment. I had the later with my hub. Could only find a replacement cone as part of a complete axle assembly, for more than half the price I paid for the whole hub. Since the FH had previously failed, I replaced the hub with a different brand. The XT went straight into the recycle bin.
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  86. #86
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    I think the bulk of the failures on the Y3CZ98050 have been with the pawls/dog-ears. Yours is a cracked body. Did the pawls fail also, jamming the ratchet and perhaps causing the body to crack?

    Quote Originally Posted by abuwz View Post
    I dont't know the ratchet's part number but i was running the FH-M785 bought in early 2013 from bike-components.de

    I sent the wheel in January 2014 to Shimano and they replaced the freehub on warranty. Unfotunately the hub turned into crap after one wet ride so i decided to switch to SLX m665.

    My fh-m785 after a wet ride:
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    This looks like a combination of grease failure (emulsification) and over tightening. It looks like false brinelling.

    These hubs use a threaded aluminum axle. Is it possible the end caps can not be tightened enough to prevent the cones from self-tightening? From 30+ years of rebuilding steel axle hubs I know I can tighten them enough to keep the cones in place. The SLX should be axle of steel.

  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by abuwz View Post
    I dont't know the ratchet's part number but i was running the FH-M785 bought in early 2013 from bike-components.de

    I sent the wheel in January 2014 to Shimano and they replaced the freehub on warranty. Unfotunately the hub turned into crap after one wet ride so i decided to switch to SLX m665.

    My fh-m785 after a wet ride:
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    Lookin good there! I used to park and ride my commuter out in the rain for several years. I had one of the cheapest hubs, non series crapola. and after 4 years it was like new inside. I cracked mine open at least once a year though for a full cleaning and regreasing. I used solvents and 556 in the mechanism.
    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.

    Quote Originally Posted by iheartbicycles View Post
    Specialized sucks ass.

  88. #88
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    I called Shimano North America. Asked about the Y-3CZ-98050 free hub body used on the M770, M775/6, M785 and T780. The part was updated in the 12/2013-1/2014 timeframe.

    Let's hope this is the end of the bad metallurgy.

  89. #89
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    I apologize if this has been addressed already. I just blew out my freehub body on my shimano fh-m475 for the second time. I know they aren't the best hubs out there at all but at the time I can't afford a new wheel set or hubs. Do any of you know if any other freehub bodies are interchangeable with this one? I can just buy the same one again but I would think the slx, xt or xtr would be stronger than what is on there.

  90. #90
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    Shimano XT M775 Wheelset Freehub fails ?

    Quote Originally Posted by kemal View Post
    I think the bulk of the failures on the Y3CZ98050 have been with the pawls/dog-ears. Yours is a cracked body. Did the pawls fail also, jamming the ratchet and perhaps causing the body to crack?



    This looks like a combination of grease failure (emulsification) and over tightening. It looks like false brinelling.

    These hubs use a threaded aluminum axle. Is it possible the end caps can not be tightened enough to prevent the cones from self-tightening? From 30+ years of rebuilding steel axle hubs I know I can tighten them enough to keep the cones in place. The SLX should be axle of steel.
    The aluminum axle could be the issue. The threads can deform more easily allowing the adjustment to change (tighten or loosen).
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    I've had a similar issue with a Deore freehub body developing cracks and falling apart. Both times the freehub body was less than 3 months old (i'd estimate less than 100 hours riding). The photo below is the remnants of the freehub body after the first failure (heard a popping sound and the freehub locked up so that I couldn't pedal, cue a 2 hour walk home).

    Shimano XT M775 Wheelset Freehub fails ?-freehub-failure.jpg

    The first time it was warrantied no questions asked as the wheelset was on a new bike, but this time I'm nowhere near a dealer (or even a bikeshop for that matter) that I could take the wheel to so it could be replaced through warranty. The second time it happened was a few days ago, and exactly the same thing happened again. I'm probably going to replace the whole wheel, as I just don't trust the shimano freehubs given my experience on them. Incredibly disappointed.

  92. #92
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    Purchased new bike 2 months ago with deore hubs. Second freehub in that timespan is already sticking. Highly dissapointed and discouraged. Local lbs won't sell or service this hub. I'm hoping Shimano will warranty me with an xtr freehub to make this mess right.

  93. #93
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    Dang 802. Sorry. Last time I tried to warranty one as a consumer they asked me if I had ever broken spokes. I said yes. They asked if I had completely detensioned the wheel when I replaced the spokes.

    Seriously?

    If anything I think overtorquing the cassette lock ring may be to blame in some of these failures. Now that I am working as a shop owner mechanic I use a torque wrench when I install cassettes (and most other drive train parts) and I find that the 40 Nm spec is a lot lower than we often beast these things on at.
    Obviously, you're not a golfer.

  94. #94
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    Interesting thought about the torque wrench. This particular bike came from a shop outside of town, not the one I mentioned. So I took it there (where it was built) to have the second freehub installed. He was wrenching on it HARD. I've previously had a hell of a time undoing other bolts. Also, there is a plastic guard between my wheel and cassette which is bent (could've been a rock, who knows). And, I've been really struggling to keep my derailleurs aligned. Could it all be related? Who knows. I'm trying to learn my way around the bike so I've given this all a lot of thought and something just isn't adding up--maybe you're onto it.

  95. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by 802spokestoke View Post
    Interesting thought about the torque wrench. This particular bike came from a shop outside of town, not the one I mentioned. So I took it there (where it was built) to have the second freehub installed. He was wrenching on it HARD. I've previously had a hell of a time undoing other bolts. Also, there is a plastic guard between my wheel and cassette which is bent (could've been a rock, who knows). And, I've been really struggling to keep my derailleurs aligned. Could it all be related? Who knows. I'm trying to learn my way around the bike so I've given this all a lot of thought and something just isn't adding up--maybe you're onto it.

    I seriously doubt overtorquing the cassette lockring is breaking freehub bodies. Also, it sounds like you might be equating the lockring with the freehub's anchor bolt (I'm sure there's a better name for it). The freehub anchor bolt should be damn tight to keep it from wandering loose. The cassette lockring doesn't seem to matter a whole lot for steel freehub bodies, just as long as it's fairly tight.

    It seems pretty clear to me that inferior materials/construction is the problem, not user error. Shimano is cutting corners with these freehubs and it works fine for 95+% of riders, which may be fine with shimano.

  96. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by 802spokestoke View Post
    Purchased new bike 2 months ago with deore hubs. Second freehub in that timespan is already sticking. Highly dissapointed and discouraged. Local lbs won't sell or service this hub. I'm hoping Shimano will warranty me with an xtr freehub to make this mess right.
    Your LBS needs to step up. Replacing an FH body should take them 15 minutes.

    Which model of Deore are you running? If it is an FH-M615, which should have a 98060 FHB. This body is used on the M529, which is rated for 29er/hi torque 36t cog.

    Shimano will send another body. The 98060 is a $19 part. An XTR body is in excess of $160. Best of luck getting the whole XTR hub.

  97. #97
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    yeah, warranty replacement does not equal "free upgrade"

  98. #98
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    I was thinking just the xtr freehub (If it's even compatible, I'm not sure). I really don't expect them to send one. But I will be politely pressing the issue that this is not acceptable for a 5 inch travel bike (That would be taken up with the bike manufacturer). The LBS that won't fix it has told me they will have nothing to do with shimano hubs. I didn't buy the bike from them so I'm not really concerned, rather I was showing the reputation that these hubs have made for themselves.
    The shop I bought it from is over an hour away--but that's my problem.
    The hub is an FHM-618. I cannot find a part number on the freehub on the workbench.
    I should probably just try and get some money for the wheelset and upgrade, but that's alot of lost riding time.

  99. #99
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    Shop owner was awesome. He was understanding and is willingly taking it up with shimano for me. Fingers crossed.

  100. #100
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    Props to shimano for doing right. Free upgrade in the mail. Sounds like shop owner had to work some magic but none the less.

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