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  1. #1
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    Roval questions?

    Hey everyone, Roval Joe here.

    I manage the Roval MTB wheel program (maybe the coolest wheels you have never heard of) and I am super excited to talk wheels, rims, spokes, spacing, carbon, really anything, with you guys. Let me know if you have some questions, feedback, or ideas. Thanks!

    We make a wide range of wheels for different uses, check them out.

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    If you are going to change the rim, you will want to know the ERD of the Crest as the spoke lengths will be different. Thanks!

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    Are the rims available separately? If so, what's the price and weight for 29" Traverse rims?

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    Good question. Roval was founded on, and continues to be, a "systems approach" idea. The rims are strong and light, the spokes & hubs high-quality, (all laced and trued by hand), and all the pieces are built to work together to make a better wheel. So we don't sell them separately to keep the system intact.

    If there is an issue with any piece though, like a rim or even a bearing or nipple, replacements are available through warranty.

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    Roval questions?

    Can you discuss the rim profiling, specifically are the "tubeless" rims compliant with the ERTRO tubeless standard? If not, can you say what tubeless standard they are following and what tubeless tires they are compatible with?
    Last edited by Cary; 03-27-2013 at 07:42 PM.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roval Joe View Post
    Good question. Roval was founded on, and continues to be, a "systems approach" idea. The rims are strong and light, the spokes & hubs high-quality, (all laced and trued by hand), and all the pieces are built to work together to make a better wheel. So we don't sell them separately to keep the system intact.

    If there is an issue with any piece though, like a rim or even a bearing or nipple, replacements are available through warranty.
    Firstly, thank you for posting here at mtbr.com. I also tried to answer questions and assist with warranty issues for my former employer before they put the brakes on it.

    I understand your company's position on the Roval "systems approach", and I don't necessarily disagree. But I too would like to see a rim-only option since hub selection can be a very personal choice. For example, I have a trail bike with a 150mm rear end, and so a Roval wheelset for that bike is not an option.

    So if you'll humor me, here are my questions regarding the Roval Carbon wheelsets:

    1) I congratulate you on using a "bead hook-less" rim design on the Roval control wheelset. Are there plans to transfer this rim design over to the Carbon Roval Traverse 29 SL wheelset?

    2) The external rim widths are listed as the following:
    29 Roval Control Carbon - 27mm external
    29 Roval Traverse Carbon - 28mm external
    Since the rim's internal width is arguably the more important dimension, why not list them also? And can you share them here?

    3) What are the bead shelf diameters for the rims listed above (with rim tape)?

    4) Both wheelsets have a rider weight limit of 240 lbs. What considerations are taken into account to arrive at this number?

    5) As I'm sure you've discovered, the beads of UST and 'tubeless ready' tires from different manufacturers vary, more than most people realize. Does Specialized perform "bead unseat" testing using tires from every manufacturer? If yes, what information, if any, can you share from this testing?
    Tire Design & Development Engineer. The opinions expressed in this forum are solely my own.

  8. #8
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    Any chance to get a 2010 Roval AL rear wheel for my Specialized Enduro Pro? My hub blew up and the rim is pretty beat up. I have been looking for months for a replacement to match the front wheel, which is in great shape.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CDMC View Post
    Can you discuss the rim profiling, specifically are the "tubeless" rims compliant with the ERTRO tubeless standard? If not, can you say what tubeless standard they are following and what tubeless tires they are compatible with?
    CDMC, are you asking if the rims are UST tubeless standard? if so, no they are not to this standard. As far as rim profiling, in general terms, the rims are compatible with "tubeless ready" settups like Specialized 2Bliss tires, in that they have a drop center in the rim bed to help seat tires that have a tubeless ready bead and sealant. Once inflated, the tire beads pop up out of the drop center and onto the "shoulders" of the rim bed and against the inside sidewall of the rim. Also, the rim bed is drilled for conventional spoke installation, so our tubeless ready rim strip, or tape would be necessary to seal also. Of course Roval rims are compatible with all Specialized 2Bliss tires, and people are also mounting up many other brands of tubeless (UST style), or tubeless ready style tires. Hope this is what you are looking for, let me know if you still are unsure of anything?

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    Quote Originally Posted by bholwell View Post
    Firstly, thank you for posting here at mtbr.com. I also tried to answer questions and assist with warranty issues for my former employer before they put the brakes on it.

    I understand your company's position on the Roval "systems approach", and I don't necessarily disagree. But I too would like to see a rim-only option since hub selection can be a very personal choice. For example, I have a trail bike with a 150mm rear end, and so a Roval wheelset for that bike is not an option.

    So if you'll humor me, here are my questions regarding the Roval Carbon wheelsets:

    1) I congratulate you on using a "bead hook-less" rim design on the Roval control wheelset. Are there plans to transfer this rim design over to the Carbon Roval Traverse 29 SL wheelset?

    2) The external rim widths are listed as the following:
    29 Roval Control Carbon - 27mm external
    29 Roval Traverse Carbon - 28mm external
    Since the rim's internal width is arguably the more important dimension, why not list them also? And can you share them here?

    3) What are the bead shelf diameters for the rims listed above (with rim tape)?

    4) Both wheelsets have a rider weight limit of 240 lbs. What considerations are taken into account to arrive at this number?

    5) As I'm sure you've discovered, the beads of UST and 'tubeless ready' tires from different manufacturers vary, more than most people realize. Does Specialized perform "bead unseat" testing using tires from every manufacturer? If yes, what information, if any, can you share from this testing?

    bholwell- let's see if I can answer everything here:
    1) Thanks. Actually Traverse 29 already has the hookless design also. The 26" Traverse SL has a traditional hooked design because we started developing that rim way before the 29" version, and it was basically done when went down the no hook path. You'll notice Traverse 29 SL rim looks very similar in shape to the Control 29 Carbon rim, and that's because they come from the same mold, but with two completely different layups (the orientation and quantity of carbon fiber layers in the rim) and different types of carbon. The result is the Traverse 29 SL rims are stiffer and even more impact resistant than Control 29 Carbon rims. The reason why we didn't just use the exact same rim is because the wheels are intended for two different experiences.
    2) You are quite correct, and I'm trying to get our literature changed to reflect inner rim width. I think there must be a typo somewhere that you are reading since both rims have the same dimensions (outside/inside rim width). Both rims are 22mm inner width. I'll get a complete list of inner rim widths for our current lineup and post here shortly for everyone's reference.
    3)Shelf diameter (including rim strip) is 622.5mm
    4)I'm not at liberty to share exactly what is used to come up with this figure, but I can tell you that it is a standard we use for all Specialized carbon components.
    5)Yes, and this was a big concern for us with the new hookless design!! We have a tire blow off testing machine at our office that the tire development team uses, and we used this for starters just to prove out the hookless rims with Specialized tires. Once we were confident there, we did a lot of testing with every major brand of tires to make sure customers weren't going to have issues. However, I think that you may be asking if we specifically set up every brand of tubeless tire on our rims, in a tubeless configuration? While we have not set up every brand of tubeless tire on our rims, we have set up a lot, and have not had trouble. As described in an earlier post, these are not UST rims, and do require our tubeless ready rim strip, or tape to complete a tubeless settup.

    hope this helps with your questions, let me know if I missed something?

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    Quote Originally Posted by dawgman25 View Post
    Any chance to get a 2010 Roval AL rear wheel for my Specialized Enduro Pro? My hub blew up and the rim is pretty beat up. I have been looking for months for a replacement to match the front wheel, which is in great shape.
    Hey Dawgman2- your best bet would be to contact our customer service department to see if they have any, but I'm guessing you probably have done this already if you've been looking for months?

  12. #12
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    2013 Roval Technical Info

    2013_technical_info.pdf

    Here's a quick reference tool that shows all internal/external rim widths, plus compatibility, spoke spec, etc, for all current wheels in the Roval Mtn lineup.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roval Joe View Post
    bholwell- let's see if I can answer everything here:
    1) Thanks. Actually Traverse 29 already has the hookless design also. The 26" Traverse SL has a traditional hooked design because we started developing that rim way before the 29" version, and it was basically done when went down the no hook path. You'll notice Traverse 29 SL rim looks very similar in shape to the Control 29 Carbon rim, and that's because they come from the same mold, but with two completely different layups (the orientation and quantity of carbon fiber layers in the rim) and different types of carbon. The result is the Traverse 29 SL rims are stiffer and even more impact resistant than Control 29 Carbon rims. The reason why we didn't just use the exact same rim is because the wheels are intended for two different experiences.
    2) You are quite correct, and I'm trying to get our literature changed to reflect inner rim width. I think there must be a typo somewhere that you are reading since both rims have the same dimensions (outside/inside rim width). Both rims are 22mm inner width. I'll get a complete list of inner rim widths for our current lineup and post here shortly for everyone's reference.
    3)Shelf diameter (including rim strip) is 622.5mm
    4)I'm not at liberty to share exactly what is used to come up with this figure, but I can tell you that it is a standard we use for all Specialized carbon components.
    5)Yes, and this was a big concern for us with the new hookless design!! We have a tire blow off testing machine at our office that the tire development team uses, and we used this for starters just to prove out the hookless rims with Specialized tires. Once we were confident there, we did a lot of testing with every major brand of tires to make sure customers weren't going to have issues. However, I think that you may be asking if we specifically set up every brand of tubeless tire on our rims, in a tubeless configuration? While we have not set up every brand of tubeless tire on our rims, we have set up a lot, and have not had trouble. As described in an earlier post, these are not UST rims, and do require our tubeless ready rim strip, or tape to complete a tubeless settup.

    hope this helps with your questions, let me know if I missed something?
    Joe, thank you very much for answering my questions. Yes, take a look at your website; different external widths are listed for the carbon Roval Control and Traverse rims. And the Traverse rims have no mention on the "hookless" design.

    In regards to the tire testing (question #5) I did not mean 'blow-off' or hydrostatic burst testing. I meant 'bead unseat' testing, in which a lateral force is applied to the inflated tire's sidewall. Displacement is increased at a constant rate until the bead is forced inward off of the bead seat shelf and pressure is lost; the resultant max force is recorded. This gives a good idea as to how likely a tire is to "burp" or lose air pressure while cornering hard or landing a jump sideways. There is an ASTM standard for testing LT/P/Temp spare tires (http://www.astm.org/Standards/F2663.htm); several large ATV and Motorcycle manufacturers also require this testing. I believe that such testing can help improve mountain bike rim and tire design. Third party companies like STL should be able to provide bead unseat testing.
    Tire Design & Development Engineer. The opinions expressed in this forum are solely my own.

  14. #14
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    My son has a set of 29 Control and has the current 9mm QR adapters 28MMS125900001. I bought a 15mm thru-axle fork and want to know the part numbers for the 15mm thru-axle adapters?
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    Quote Originally Posted by bholwell View Post
    Joe, thank you very much for answering my questions. Yes, take a look at your website; different external widths are listed for the carbon Roval Control and Traverse rims. And the Traverse rims have no mention on the "hookless" design.

    In regards to the tire testing (question #5) I did not mean 'blow-off' or hydrostatic burst testing. I meant 'bead unseat' testing, in which a lateral force is applied to the inflated tire's sidewall. Displacement is increased at a constant rate until the bead is forced inward off of the bead seat shelf and pressure is lost; the resultant max force is recorded. This gives a good idea as to how likely a tire is to "burp" or lose air pressure while cornering hard or landing a jump sideways. There is an ASTM standard for testing LT/P/Temp spare tires (http://www.astm.org/Standards/F2663.htm); several large ATV and Motorcycle manufacturers also require this testing. I believe that such testing can help improve mountain bike rim and tire design. Third party companies like STL should be able to provide bead unseat testing.
    BHolwell- no problem! thanks for pointing out the discrepancy, I'll try to get the web guys to correct this soon. One of the reasons we started this thread: to get correct information to people in a quick manner.

    Ok, I understand what you are talking about with the "bead unseat" testing now. We are actually working on this test or maybe a slight variation of it with our tire team right now. So to answer your question, no, we did not do this in development of the current product. All the burp testing we did was back to back testing on the trail with different pressures, and this was with Specialized tires. The hookless rims have been in the market since August of 2012, and so far we're not getting complaints about other manufacturer's tires working in tubeless. To your point though, product can always be improved.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwick37 View Post
    My son has a set of 29 Control and has the current 9mm QR adapters 28MMS125900001. I bought a 15mm thru-axle fork and want to know the part numbers for the 15mm thru-axle adapters?
    Dwick37- I believe you are talking about the Control 29 alloy wheelset, correct? if so, part# for 15mm end caps is S125900011.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roval Joe View Post
    CDMC, are you asking if the rims are UST tubeless standard? if so, no they are not to this standard. As far as rim profiling, in general terms, the rims are compatible with "tubeless ready" settups like Specialized 2Bliss tires, in that they have a drop center in the rim bed to help seat tires that have a tubeless ready bead and sealant. Once inflated, the tire beads pop up out of the drop center and onto the "shoulders" of the rim bed and against the inside sidewall of the rim. Also, the rim bed is drilled for conventional spoke installation, so our tubeless ready rim strip, or tape would be necessary to seal also. Of course Roval rims are compatible with all Specialized 2Bliss tires, and people are also mounting up many other brands of tubeless (UST style), or tubeless ready style tires. Hope this is what you are looking for, let me know if you still are unsure of anything?
    UST is the Mavic trade name for the ERTRO standard. So based on your description is not. The ERTRO standard has a step down shelf on the rim bed to help lock the tire in place, and it sounds like the Roval wheels don't have that. Do they otherwise use the same bead seat diameter and wall height as a ERTRO compliant rim? How do they keep the tire locked in place?

    It might be helpful if you can post a profile picture of the rim with dimensions like the one I am attaching below (FOR ANYONE READING, THE DRAWING BELOW IS NOT OF THE ROVAL). As they say a picture is worth a thousand words.

    Thanks

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    Hey Joe,
    Maybe you can clear this one up for me. Are the new Carbon 29 Control front hubs 20mm compatible? I understand they come stock with the 9mm QR and 15mm end caps. Most reviews I've read say the 20mm caps can be ordered directly from Specialized, but two local shops I've inquired with have told me that is not the case and only the Trail version has 20mm compatiblity. Can you clarify this? If 20mm caps are available for the wheels could you get me a part number?

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roval Joe View Post
    2013_technical_info.pdf

    Here's a quick reference tool that shows all internal/external rim widths, plus compatibility, spoke spec, etc, for all current wheels in the Roval Mtn lineup.
    Nice, that was very helpful. Thanks

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by ripn View Post
    Hey Joe,
    Maybe you can clear this one up for me. Are the new Carbon 29 Control front hubs 20mm compatible? I understand they come stock with the 9mm QR and 15mm end caps. Most reviews I've read say the 20mm caps can be ordered directly from Specialized, but two local shops I've inquired with have told me that is not the case and only the Trail version has 20mm compatiblity. Can you clarify this? If 20mm caps are available for the wheels could you get me a part number?
    Hey Ripn- the new Control 29 Carbon wheels are indeed 20mm thru axle compatible. Our goal was to keep these as affordable as possible, and figured that most forks were going to 15mm, so we did not include them. With all of our wheels, sometimes shops can get confused about what is compatible with what. Any specialized dealer can order 20mm end caps for these wheels, part# is S125900003 (this is both caps).

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    Roval questions?

    Joe,
    Any plans for Roval on ever manufacturing 9/10 mm RWS end caps for the Control SL ? Many thanks for your contribution!

  22. #22
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    Great thread! Thanks for posting this, Joe.

    Any chance that owners of older Roval wheelsets with aluminum rims could send them in to be upgraded to the carbon rims?

  23. #23
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    You can get 135x10 RWS end caps for the rear hub simply buy purchasing the DT Swiss caps for the 240s hubs. I have two sets of Roval wheels set up in this way.

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    What about front? I would like to purchase 100x9 RWS caps for my Roval Control SL wheels. Is this the same as DT240s 9mm RWS caps? I was told that they weren't.

    Also if I want to convert my 142+ rear hub to XX1 I was told that I need the Roval freehub and not the DT freehub. Is this correct?

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roval Joe View Post
    Hey Ripn- the new Control 29 Carbon wheels are indeed 20mm thru axle compatible. Our goal was to keep these as affordable as possible, and figured that most forks were going to 15mm, so we did not include them. With all of our wheels, sometimes shops can get confused about what is compatible with what. Any specialized dealer can order 20mm end caps for these wheels, part# is S125900003 (this is both caps).
    Thanks for the info, thats good news. Just a heads up, both shops I checked with called Specialized directly and were obviously given bad information. Might want to check in with your customer service folks and make sure they know these wheels will work with the 20mm axle. Thanks again for the conformation...time to start saving my pennies.

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