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  1. #1
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    Rant: Converting ZTR Arch EX to tubeless

    Hi,

    I must apologise in advance for the rant, but I have to let my frustration out.

    A couple of years ago, I decided to treat myself to some nice wheels. I went for Chris King Hub with ZTR Arch EX hoops. The wheels are really nice. Somewhat light and stiff, nothing wrong with them, unless you actually want to mount a tire on them.

    I have been riding for 7 years on a variety of wheels and I have never seen wheels that are so hard to mount tires on. I have always been able to mount tires with plastic levers, but on the Arch EX, I have to use metal levers in order to get the tires over the rim. And I am not talking, one specific tire, I am talking a variety of tires, from Contiental, Schwalbe and Maxxis. Every single one of them has given me grief to mount. Once it is on, they need to be pumped to 55psi in order for them to properly sit.
    As you can imagine, using metal tire levers, I have pinched a number of tubes while trying to mount the tires, so last night I decided to convert them to tubeless using Stan's system.

    I have been running Stan's for over 4 years and only once have I had a tire that I couldn't seal. Considering that the rims are Stan's and that the system is Stan's as well, I thought I was on for an easy one... Boy was I wrong.... I wrestle with the rims strip to keep it in place as I was trying to mount the tires. Most times, it would move in the process and get pinched between the rim and the tire beads.
    Something that should have taken 30 minutes tops to do, turned into an almost 3 hours endeavour with plenty of cursing. I ended up getting it done, but it shouldn't have been this hard. I am seriously considering throwing them out and buying some new rims that are easier to mount tires on and to convert.

    End of rant.

    Am I the only one with this problem? I know they are super popular, so maybe it is something I am doing wrong.
    Thanks a lot,
    Bertrand.
    A climb is really just a flat piece of road that points up. A headwind is a climb that you can't see. So it's all flat road, really.

  2. #2
    West Chester, PA
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    Easy - You don't use rim strips on stan's rims. Or tubes.

  3. #3
    West Chester, PA
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    Movies - Yellow Tape Install

    It's amazing how much difference a few millimeters can make.

    If it was a shop employee that told you to use strips on those wheels please kick him in the nuts.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by 92gli View Post
    Easy - You don't use rim strips on stan's rims. Or tubes.
    I have tried without the rim strip and I couldn't even inflate the tires, despite using a compressor.
    A climb is really just a flat piece of road that points up. A headwind is a climb that you can't see. So it's all flat road, really.

  5. #5
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    Did they come direct from Stan's? If so, put the original stems back in, leave the yellow tape alone, spray w soapy water, install tubeless tire. Pump up. Else install yellow tape, press on w tube.

    Arch rims are slightly larger to help thing seal. Mine were tough but sealed right off.
    If you can be blissfully ignorant to the notion that something is impossible, then you might surprise yourself. -- Andrea138

  6. #6
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    Hi,

    no... I bought them custom made from Universal Cycles.

    Have you had any problem mounting tires on the rims? I have always had a ***** of a time to do it.

    Quote Originally Posted by desnaephoto View Post
    Did they come direct from Stan's? If so, put the original stems back in, leave the yellow tape alone, spray w soapy water, install tubeless tire. Pump up. Else install yellow tape, press on w tube.

    Arch rims are slightly larger to help thing seal. Mine were tough but sealed right off.
    A climb is really just a flat piece of road that points up. A headwind is a climb that you can't see. So it's all flat road, really.

  7. #7
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    I've got to ask about your technique when mounting tires on your rims. When mounting with tubes as long as the tire bead is on the rim it will inflate but this is not the case with tubeless. There is a proper way to mount a tire on your rims. I can get most tires on ZTR rims by hand. Sometimes I need a plastic lever for the last few inches.

    You need to start mounting opposite the valve making sure that the tire bead is in the middle of the drop channel all the way round. This allows more play to pop the tire on at the valve.

    Also when inflating ensure that the tire (both sides) is in the channel all the way round except at the valve. You should then be able to easily seat the beads with a floor pump and not much effort.
    The trouble with having an open mind is that people will insist on trying to put things in it.

  8. #8
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    Now, this is a stupid question, but you're not trying to mount UST tires to a Stan's rim, are you? You're pretty hosed at that point, if you are, as the rims are not even close to being designed compatible with them.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by wschruba View Post
    Now, this is a stupid question, but you're not trying to mount UST tires to a Stan's rim, are you? You're pretty hosed at that point, if you are, as the rims are not even close to being designed compatible with them.
    Really? Not according to NoTubes. On their Recommended Tires page I quote the following:

    Compatible Tubeless Tires

    Most Tubeless tires are compatible:
    UST, LUST, UST-lite, 2Bliss, Tubeless Ready, TNT (tube no tube)

    I will only use a TLR or equivalent tubeless ready tire on my NoTubes ZTR rims. TLR tires have the same bead as a UST.
    The trouble with having an open mind is that people will insist on trying to put things in it.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronnie View Post
    Really?
    Yes, really. Of course stans isnt going to tell you that their rims dont work with all the most popular tires on the market.

    Stans IS ghetto tubeless. The new stans rims are even more ghetto tubeless and work with even less tires.

    Using only tubeless tires on stans rims is about the worst setup you can pick. Its two blatantly opposite systems, and the worst choice.

    UST and tubeless ready is standard now, stans is outdated and we really need to accept that and move past it. Maybe stans will come around and start making a real tubeless ready rim.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    Yes, really. Of course stans isnt going to tell you that their rims dont work with all the most popular tires on the market.

    Stans IS ghetto tubeless. The new stans rims are even more ghetto tubeless and work with even less tires.

    Using only tubeless tires on stans rims is about the worst setup you can pick. Its two blatantly opposite systems, and the worst choice.

    UST and tubeless ready is standard now, stans is outdated and we really need to accept that and move past it. Maybe stans will come around and start making a real tubeless ready rim.
    Thanks for telling me. I can't say much now I need to rush into the garage to immediately remove my TLR tires from my two sets of Stan's rims.
    The trouble with having an open mind is that people will insist on trying to put things in it.

  12. #12
    West Chester, PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronnie View Post
    Thanks for telling me. I can't say much now I need to rush into the garage to immediately remove my TLR tires from my two sets of Stan's rims.
    I just started a fire in my backyard and burned up my stan's rim equipped wheels and my specialized and schwalbe tlr tires. They all worked flawlessly over the last few years. But I couldn't go on knowing that there is something out there that works better than flawlessly.

  13. #13
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    Rant: Converting ZTR Arch EX to tubeless

    To the OP: just use yellow tape and regular old tires and you'll be fine. I too have a tight fit with tubes; but why bother? I also find they air up fine with a floor pump.

    Ignore the anti Stan's lobby, and yes, we all know Stan's are too big and otherwise just wrong and ghetto as all the "experts" around here will tell you. I'm willing to bet there are more Stan's being run tubeless than all the other companies combined. Maybe they'll be bankrupt in the future ... but today they work great.

  14. #14
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    Rant: Converting ZTR Arch EX to tubeless

    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    Yes, really. Of course stans isnt going to tell you that their rims dont work with all the most popular tires on the market.

    Stans IS ghetto tubeless. The new stans rims are even more ghetto tubeless and work with even less tires.

    Using only tubeless tires on stans rims is about the worst setup you can pick. Its two blatantly opposite systems, and the worst choice.

    UST and tubeless ready is standard now, stans is outdated and we really need to accept that and move past it. Maybe stans will come around and start making a real tubeless ready rim.
    I'd love to see stats on market share - I bet Stan's owns it. Yes, I know they suck!

  15. #15
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    The solution is simple. Dump the stans and get a det of Enve's.
    took me less than 30 minutes to set my Enve's up tubeless. Hans Dampf's went on and set with a floor pump. Took the valve stems out pit sealant in, re-inserted valve stems pumped em upů done.

  16. #16
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    Rant: Converting ZTR Arch EX to tubeless

    Quote Originally Posted by DWill View Post
    The solution is simple. Dump the stans and get a det of Enve's.
    took me less than 30 minutes to set my Enve's up tubeless. Hans Dampf's went on and set with a floor pump. Took the valve stems out pit sealant in, re-inserted valve stems pumped em upů done.
    Always the same budget friendly solution ... took me less then that to tape and setup arches and I was tubeless noob.

  17. #17
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    Sweet merciful crap!
    What a train wreck of a thread!

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by DWill View Post
    The solution is simple. Dump the stans and get a det of Enve's.
    took me less than 30 minutes to set my Enve's up tubeless. Hans Dampf's went on and set with a floor pump. Took the valve stems out pit sealant in, re-inserted valve stems pumped em upů done.
    Yup....$800 rims cure all.....

  19. #19
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    Rant: Converting ZTR Arch EX to tubeless

    Quote Originally Posted by the mayor View Post
    Sweet merciful crap!
    What a train wreck of a thread!
    Lately all Stan's threads end this way. Now go smash your Stan's rims!

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS Hack View Post
    Lately all Stan's threads end this way. Now go smash your Stan's rims!
    Do I need a UST compatible hammer?
    Or does Enve make a $800
    hammer that would work?
    I wonder if any Chinese companies make a cheaper hammer that would work?

    Seriously...how the F do people F up mounting a tire?

  21. #21
    change is good
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    Rant: Converting ZTR Arch EX to tubeless

    Mounting a tire with a tube to a UST/BST rim can be a PITA. I use a smaller "cross" tube to get back to the trail head. If you like tubes, maybe relaceing with standard rims would be the easiest solution.

  22. #22
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    When I picked up a set of Arch EX wheels, I also had a nightmare experience trying to run tubeless. For me, the solution was to ditch the "yellow tape" and retape with Orange Seal's tape. Once I switched over, I was able to get everything up and running (with a compressor). I'm giving the Orange Seal sealant a whirl as well. So far, I'm a happy camper (with no flats!).

    Good luck!

  23. #23
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    gorilla tape?
    i have more than you.
    ...because i have me and you.

    zarr

  24. #24
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    Have had no problems with most non-UST/TR tires.....an have tried a lot.

    WTB Vulpine 29x2.1 was the only one that had me cursing.
    I crashed hard enough on my Tallboy to break my leg,
    The carbon is way more durable than most people.

  25. #25
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    Rant: Converting ZTR Arch EX to tubeless

    Weird all the differing experiences with Stan's - some think it's easy, some not. Tires make a huge difference I guess.

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